Arsenal Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014/15

jonneymendoza

gosplan wrote: »

I'm not saying we played very well but those stats are the result of two major changes in Wenger's outlook.

1: having two players like Welbeck and Sanchez who lose the ball a lot

2: focussing on defending rather than attacking for a tricky away match, especially in the first half where we played with 2 DMFs

People have been going mental at Wenger for years to get a bit of physicality in and stop passing it side to side. People have been going mental because we don't focus on the defensive aide of things in tough away games.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

The worst thing about yesterday was missing all those corners. Criminal with Liverpool's defence.

I'm the one who originally pointed that out yesterday when someone moaned about Wenger parking the bus being only 1 goal up and I said to him he would moan had Wenger gone all out for another goal

Looper007

jonneymendoza wrote: »

I'm the one who originally pointed that out yesterday when someone moaned about Wenger parking the bus being only 1 goal up and I said to him he would moan had Wenger gone all out for another goal

That's the problem though, Wenger teams can't defend since 2005 when the last of our great defenders retired. It just isn't his game. Parking the bus was going to get us punished and it did.

It was suicidal trying to defend when he hasn't the players to play that way. It's all down to him for that.

jonneymendoza

Looper007 wrote: »

That's the problem though, Wenger teams can't defend since 2005 when the last of our great defenders retired. It just isn't his game. Parking the bus was going to get us punished and it did.

And going Al put attack would have lost us the match. I'd take a point at Anfield any day of the week

Looper007

jonneymendoza wrote: »

And going Al put attack would have lost us the match. I'd take a point at Anfield any day of the week

They were and are poor team. We played anywhere to our abilities we could have won. I'm disappointed with that point.

We were playing agaisn't 10 men how was it going to lose us the game.

Looper007

This is a great statement from ArseBlog that sums the match perfectly for me

"We made a pretty average Liverpool team look really good yesterday. Our performance was dreadful, no two ways about it. Only Santi Cazorla and Wojciech Szczesny emerge with any real credit (and perhaps Giroud for his excellent goal). The team looked inhibited and off the pace from the start, but then when you’re without important players like Ramsey, Arteta, Wilshere, Ozil and even someone like Tomas Rosicky, it’s no wonder we weren’t at our best. But that’s still no reason to be as bad as we were."

If Liverpool had had any of our front 3 playing as a striker yesterday they would've won easily. We were atrocious. There was the instance in the first couple of minutes that showed how wide open we were. Liverpool were just too blunt to do anything with the space most of the time. They way things opened up for Coutinho's goal was ridiculous. The defending from the corner was indefensible.
Hell even Chesney showed why he's not a top-level goalkeeper the time Sterlig was through and handled it past him. He was never getting to the ball and was very lucky not to do himself a serious head injury let alone Sterling not hitting the deck.
The "tactics" of defending the lead were fine. It was the attempt at defending that were the problem and it runs right through the team.

byrneg28

Sorry haven't posted so don't know if this has been covered

But did any one think Szczesny had an excellent game??

Very lucky to have him!

greendom

Sanchez 14 (9)
Giroud 6 (5)
Welbeck 6 (3)
Ramsey 6 (3)
Cazorla 4 (3)
Podolski 3(0)
Ox 2(1)
Gibbs 1 (0)
Koscielny 1 (1)
Wilshere 1(1)
Ozil 1(1)
Chambers 1 (1)
Debuchy 1 (1)
Arteta 1 (0)
Sanogo 1(0)


Goals scored (League goals in brackets)

Great that Giroud has got into his groove so quickly after recovering from the broken bone

byrneg28

greendom wrote: »

Sanchez 14 (9)
Giroud 6 (5)
Welbeck 6 (3)
Ramsey 6 (3)
Cazorla 4 (3)
Podolski 3(0)
Ox 2(1)
Gibbs 1 (0)
Koscielny 1 (1)
Wilshere 1(1)
Ozil 1(1)
Chambers 1 (1)
Debuchy 1 (1)
Arteta 1 (0)
Sanogo 1(0)


Goals scored (League goals in brackets)

Great that Giroud has got into his groove so quickly after recovering from the broken bone

A point that was said frequently last season was that Giroud couldn't score against the big teams

Manchester City
Everton
Manchester United
Newcastle United x 2
Liverpool

Well done Olivier.

Alfred Borden

gosplan wrote: »

People need to chill out on the Mert hate.

Don't remember too many saying that

A: Verm should have played instead of him last season
B: we should have upgraded him in the summer

We needed a 4th CB in the summer. We started the year with our best Czb pairing for a decade.

Id loosely refer to Kos/Mert as a pairing when one lad has to do all the work and the other does a bit of shouting and people love him. I blamed him for the heavy defeats last year and wanted Verm over him in them games. He could do a job against the rest of the league but now he looks out of his depth no matter who he is up against. Perhaps its tiredness but if we want to win the league, Mert was never good enough. His mentality has been wrong all season tbh, saying he wouldnt mind if he never won the league. Has done more talk than Tackling as well it seems.

Kirby

Looper007 wrote: »

They were and are poor team. We played anywhere to our abilities we could have won. I'm disappointed with that point.

Turtyturd wrote: »

Yes Arsenal are a poor team, and we have shown that in the last two league games against them.

It's sort of funny that both sets of fans are convinced that the other team is poor and yet their own is good but underperforming.

Maybe the truth is somewhere in the middle and both are just.....average?

GavRedKing

Being subjective and trying to be impartial, I'd prefer the Arsenal squad.

In truth both are under performing, for different reasons but basic defending for both has been pretty poor, theyre not alone though, Utd have relied on De Gea and out scoring the opposition to get away with a poor defence.

City too havent inspired confidence but their XI is strong together to get a job done, even at Chelsea we've given away silly goals at various stages this year.

Theres no point going back to it as ye pretty know what sets aside Chelsea and City, (apart from the $$$$$) the CM, City can play a various combination of good CMs and we're lucky to have Matic back.

Kirby

I agree it's an important part of the jigsaw but I disagree on City being successful because of it. I actually think City lack top class Central midfielders.

They have Silva who is magic but he's not a CM and Yaya Toure is too lazy to be relied upon there. They have Fernando and Fernandinho which are absolutely nowhere near the standard of Matic and Fabregas. I suppose you guys have Mikel though so that's worth several minus points.

GavRedKing

Kirby wrote: »

I agree it's an important part of the jigsaw but I disagree on City being successful because of it. I actually think City lack top class Central midfielders.

They have Silva who is magic but he's not a CM and Yaya Toure is too lazy to be relied upon there. They have Fernando and Fernandinho which are absolutely nowhere near the standard of Matic and Fabregas. I suppose you guys have Mikel though so that's worth several minus points.

But City can call on Toure, Fernando(inho), Lampard, Milner all to do a job in CM, theyre pretty wel stocked in that department that they shouldnt have to worry when they play 90% of the teams in the league.

As ya mentioned once you look past Matic or cesc you're onto Mikel or Ramires, neither can hold a candle to those theyed replace which the Newcastle game showed.

greendom

GavRedKing wrote: »

But City can call on Toure, Fernando(inho), Lampard, Milner all to do a job in CM, theyre pretty wel stocked in that department that they shouldnt have to worry when they play 90% of the teams in the league.

As ya mentioned once you look past Matic or cesc you're onto Mikel or Ramires, neither can hold a candle to those theyed replace which the Newcastle game showed.

Come on Mr Moderator - going off topic here !!!

GavRedKing

greendom wrote: »

Come on Mr Moderator - going off topic here !!!

.....on topic, ye need a CDM but ye know that

tayto lover

Still fuming about that performance yesterday. Not the result but the performance.
What has happened to our team?

1.Players not able to pass the ball 10 yards. Twice it was put out over the sideline from 10 yards.

2.Not able to control the ball, getting it caught between their feet and then giving it to the opposition. Many times.

3. Not able to beat the first man from corners. What the feck are they doing in training? Happening in every game.

4. Ducking out of tackles, even the 50/50 ones. Plain cowardice or players who are too nice and don't want to risk injury. (You get injured quicker ducking out).

5. Defenders not getting off the ground. Even Wenger mentioned it but i'd rather he did something about it as it is happening a lot.

No it's not the scoreline at all, it's the performances and they're not good enough for this club.

Hyzepher

The problem with Arsenal at the moment is that AW has filled the squad with players that he'd never play unless forced to do so. He should be filling the squad with players that he'd be happy to play regardless.

In the summer when we had a fit squad AW must of thought that the core of the team was strong - and it is. The problem lies with the crap that he is loyal to behind the first team.

When ther's an injury the squad is immediately under pressure - when there is a few injuries we fall apart

Ed Winchester

You get days like that when 6 of your starting 11 are out injured Tayto.

Giggsy11

Kirby wrote: »

It's sort of funny that both sets of fans are convinced that the other team is poor and yet their own is good but underperforming.

Maybe the truth is somewhere in the middle and both are just.....average?

All top teams except Chelsea and to an extent City are not playing well. There are number of reasons but if we compare the squads I don't think there are many (non LFC and Arsenal) fans who prefer Liverpool squad to Arsenal.

Arsenal have Chesney, Chambers, Gibbs, Walcott, Ramsey, Wilshere, Ozil, Sanchez, Kos who are quality player and talents. And then the players like Debuchy, Arteta, Giroud who are good players with good PL experience.

gosplan

Raf32 wrote: »

Id loosely refer to Kos/Mert as a pairing when one lad has to do all the work and the other does a bit of shouting and people love him. I blamed him for the heavy defeats last year and wanted Verm over him in them games. He could do a job against the rest of the league but now he looks out of his depth no matter who he is up against. Perhaps its tiredness but if we want to win the league, Mert was never good enough. His mentality has been wrong all season tbh, saying he wouldnt mind if he never won the league. Has done more talk than Tackling as well it seems.

Granted, however they were effective most of the time last year.

I accept what you're saying about the big games but that isn't the problem this season.

We had a solid CB pairing to build on and it disappeared.

IMO Wenger did the correct thing in buying Chambers as an eventual CB replacement for Mert. We needed a pretender to Mert's throne who would come to challenge him. But Mert was a nailed on starter in May, the Mert Kos partnership was one of the best things about last season, and changing that before August would have been rediculous.

Where Wenger slipped up was buying cover for Kos. Chambers should be taking Mert's place until his performances improve. Instead they're both playing every game.


Here's arseblogs squad assessment at the end of May...

arseblog wrote:

Per Mertesacker: His partnership with Laurent Koscielny is fantastic, and you can see from the way they celebrated at Wembley that they feel it too. Gets the club and the fans, now shares a place in my top 5 with puppies. B+

Now I'm not saying he was fully correct but that was the opinion at the time of nearly every Arsenal fan. Yes some people knew more than most but going gung ho to replace either Mert or Kos in the summer would have been idiotic from a managerial point of view.

tayto lover

Ed Winchester wrote: »

You get days like that when 6 of your starting 11 are out injured Tayto.

The injuries have nothing to do with the performances of those on the field and the manager. The players we had representing us yesterday were not up for the fight.
I'm amazed how they got straight into the fight against Newcastle, harrying and hassling them, and then came out and let Liverpool have the ball for nearly the entire first-half yesterday. These were the same players.

Hyzepher

It's got to the point that every time I see Per stepping up to try and intercept or tackle I close my eyes - it's a big weakness of him and yet he keeps doing it. Yesterday's game we saw him caught out at least twice in dangerous positions. I wouldn't mind him doing it if he had the pace to recover.

Also, don't get me started about the tippy-tappy, flicky stuff that we are starting to do in danger areas - their first goal was a perfect example of this.

Alfred Borden

gosplan wrote: »

Granted, however they were effective most of the time last year.

I accept what you're saying about the big games but that isn't the problem this season.

We had a solid CB pairing to build on and it disappeared.

IMO Wenger did the correct thing in buying Chambers as an eventual CB replacement for Mert. We needed a pretender to Mert's throne who would come to challenge him. But Mert was a nailed on starter in May, the Mert Kos partnership was one of the best things about last season, and changing that before August would have been rediculous.

Where Wenger slipped up was buying cover for Kos. Chambers should be taking Mert's place until his performances improve. Instead they're both playing every game.


Here's arseblogs squad assessment at the end of May...



Now I'm not saying he was fully correct but that was the opinion at the time of nearly every Arsenal fan. Yes some people knew more than most but going gung ho to replace either Mert or Kos in the summer would have been idiotic from a managerial point of view.

While I agree they were a highlight last year, I cant help but see Mert as a walking disaster carried by the best centre back in the world imo. A proactive manager would have seen Mert was fading and always came undone against the top teams similar to Arteta. Chambers was a great buy but we all thought it was as backup to Debuchy originally now its to Mert. Then he loans out Jenkinson (who has excelled it has to be said) and refuses to get cover for Kos who has the same problem as Vermaelen with his Achilles now. It sad that Wenger has become a reactive manager now, only fixing the hole when the boat is just about to sink.

Ed Winchester

tayto lover wrote: »

The injuries have nothing to do with the performances of those on the field and the manager. The players we had representing us yesterday were not up for the fight.
I'm amazed how they got straight into the fight against Newcastle, harrying and hassling them, and then came out and let Liverpool have the ball for nearly the entire first-half yesterday. These were the same players.

Fair point. But like I said, this wasn't even close to our best eleven. Expecting consistency from them is being a bit hopeful. But you're right, well paid pro footballers should be able to do the basics.

gosplan

tayto lover wrote: »

Still fuming about that performance yesterday. Not the result but the performance.
What has happened to our team?

1.Players not able to pass the ball 10 yards. Twice it was put out over the sideline from 10 yards.

2.Not able to control the ball, getting it caught between their feet and then giving it to the opposition. Many times.

3. Not able to beat the first man from corners. What the feck are they doing in training? Happening in every game.

4. Ducking out of tackles, even the 50/50 ones. Plain cowardice or players who are too nice and don't want to risk injury. (You get injured quicker ducking out).

5. Defenders not getting off the ground. Even Wenger mentioned it but i'd rather he did something about it as it is happening a lot.

No it's not the scoreline at all, it's the performances and they're not good enough for this club.

I agree with everything here but I think it's down to the players and their quality.

I think if you look at where we want to be and the clubs already there, and the standards they have, then the players that you could consider good enough are ...

Szcz
Debuchy, Kos
Ramsey
Ozil
Walcott
Sanchez

Giroud I think is OK for that level provided the players around him are good enough, though he's not the type that will create and finish like a real top class CF.

Gibbs is probably OK too but won't make a huge difference in games.

Then you'd look at the effective things other players do, like Arteta's work and the Mert/Kos partnership.

There was so much missing yesterday, it's ridiculous.

The most criminal for me of the things you've mentioned were the corners. It's ridiculous that we would simply fail on every level to target our opponent's weakness like that.

Nemeses2050

tayto lover wrote: »

Still fuming about that performance yesterday. Not the result but the performance.
What has happened to our team?

1.Players not able to pass the ball 10 yards. Twice it was put out over the sideline from 10 yards.

2.Not able to control the ball, getting it caught between their feet and then giving it to the opposition. Many times.

3. Not able to beat the first man from corners. What the feck are they doing in training? Happening in every game.

4. Ducking out of tackles, even the 50/50 ones. Plain cowardice or players who are too nice and don't want to risk injury. (You get injured quicker ducking out).

5. Defenders not getting off the ground. Even Wenger mentioned it but i'd rather he did something about it as it is happening a lot.

No it's not the scoreline at all, it's the performances and they're not good enough for this club.

+1

Couldn't agree more...

We were timid, petrified feckin what ever you wanna call it....

I thought it will be a even contest before the start of the game, but it was feckin far from it...there was no contest at all...

forget possession they couldn't string two passes together it looked like no one wanted the ball and when we played it long there was nobody for the second ball...it was atrocious and if it wasn't for my little one who was watching the game with me...I would have gone ballistic. :mad:

Mr.Micro

In truth Liverpool were all over us, like a cheap suit. We were lucky to get the draw, as they could have had 3 or 4. The 1-2 score line before the equalizer, flattered us.

byrneg28

Classic Claude. So fickle and unreasonable.

In one interview he'd complain we still attack when we are winning and when we don't do that, he's complaining that why are we dropping back when we are winning?

I don't understand.

It was the same last season

Giroud scores = Best striker in BPL
Giroud doesn't score = Lamp-post

Nemeses2050

As someone said above, i'll take a point away to Anfield but it's the nothing performance which riles me...after building up so much...they deliver s**t all...

wawaman

Im surprised that so many people are surprised by that "performance" yesterday. Its not as if there hasnt been a pattern of dubious performances over the last couple of seasons away from home in particular.

yipeeeee

wawaman wrote: »

Im surprised that so many people are surprised by that "performance" yesterday. Its not as if there hasnt been a pattern of dubious performances over the last couple of seasons away from home in particular.

Last season we had the best away record for the first half, then it went horribly wrong.

omega man

efb wrote: »

almost, but didn't.

My point though EFB was that pool challenged to the death for the title last year. They finished ahead of Chelsea whom apparently buy their way. That's all i want from arsenal, to challenge.

AdamD

Hyzepher wrote: »

It's got to the point that every time I see Per stepping up to try and intercept or tackle I close my eyes - it's a big weakness of him and yet he keeps doing it. Yesterday's game we saw him caught out at least twice in dangerous positions. I wouldn't mind him doing it if he had the pace to recover.

Also, don't get me started about the tippy-tappy, flicky stuff that we are starting to do in danger areas - their first goal was a perfect example of this.

Tbh I have to disagree with this, we were already hitting record lows of possession, aimlessly booting it away would have only made it worse.

Pierce_1991

byrneg28 wrote: »

Classic Claude. So fickle and unreasonable.

In one interview he'd complain we still attack when we are winning and when we don't do that, he's complaining that why are we dropping back when we are winning?

I don't understand.

It was the same last season

Giroud scores = Best striker in BPL
Giroud doesn't score = Lamp-post

I love Arsenal Fan TV. It's obviously ridiculous, as you said, Claude would be having a go regardless. It just provides a bit of comic relief after our games for me

greendom

I'm annoyed that Giroud was substituted yesterday. He is so good defending corners that the chance may never have fallen to Skyrtel. Taking Ox of for Campbell was hard to fathom too. Still based on how poorly we played we didn't deserve any more than a point from the game.

tayto lover

Wenger on SSN putting our poor performance yesterday down to "tactical and psychological" reasons ???? Unbelievable.

Where the feck have you been for the last number of years.
We've all been saying that FFS as have all the pundits.

BUT now that you've suddenly realised it -- put it right or feck off.

byrneg28

https://vine.co/v/OX6ZAK26bXg

gosplan

greendom wrote: »

I'm annoyed that Giroud was substituted yesterday. He is so good defending corners that the chance may never have fallen to Skyrtel. Taking Ox of for Campbell was hard to fathom too. Still based on how poorly we played we didn't deserve any more than a point from the game.

hindsight

Ox signalled that he had to come off and couldn't run anymore

Giroud for corners or Welbeck for tracking back and possibility of pace on the break?

If the ball broke from a corner and Giroud was left with 30 yards between him and the keeper that he couldn't exploit, people would be saying the opposite.

Alfred Borden

gosplan wrote: »

hindsight

Ox signalled that he had to come off and couldn't run anymore

Giroud for corners or Welbeck for tracking back and possibility of pace on the break?

If the ball broke from a corner and Giroud was left with 30 yards between him and the keeper that he couldn't exploit, people would be saying the opposite.

But that what Walcott was for in fairness. Cant see how he wasnt brought on to pin them back.

yipeeeee

Remember dimachaulles(obviously spelled wrong) equaliser against us in the Emirates?

Exact same situation from a corner.

We really don't learn from our mistakes ever.

Kirby

yipeeeee wrote: »

Remember dimachaulles(obviously spelled wrong) equaliser against us in the Emirates?

Exact same situation from a corner.

We really don't learn from our mistakes ever.

It's a tough name but that's the most mangled attempt I've ever seen.


A Mangala'd attempt you might say.

Looper007

Kirby wrote: »

It's sort of funny that both sets of fans are convinced that the other team is poor and yet their own is good but underperforming.

Maybe the truth is somewhere in the middle and both are just.....average?

We have a way better squad Kirby, no question in my mind. Even that team yesterday were good enough to beat them. I bet if that same team played Liverpool yesterday at home, they would have beaten them. That's what drives me up the wall.

Soups123

Looper007 wrote: »

We have a way better squad Kirby, no question in my mind. Even that team yesterday were good enough to beat them. I bet if that same team played Liverpool yesterday at home, they would have beaten them. That's what drives me up the wall.

You said before the game we would win comfortably and we didnt.

The team that played yesterday played poorly yet you have no doubts in your mind if we played them at home we would win? Having watch us this season and continous failing to deliver in many big games in prior season you are somehow convinced that its a gimme?

This team is capable of beating, Liverpool, Chelsea, City, United, Spurs, Everton etc. on its day but on each of the last times we played all of these we failed to win. Some we havent beaten in a long time......

Pierce_1991

http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2014/dec/22/per-mertesacker-meekness-poor-form-arsenal-lacking-security?CMP=share_btn_tw

Good article on why Per isn't quite the cowardly and ineffective player it's become popular to cast him as.

MD1990

Pierce_1991 wrote: »

http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2014/dec/22/per-mertesacker-meekness-poor-form-arsenal-lacking-security?CMP=share_btn_tw

Good article on why Per isn't quite the cowardly and ineffective player it's become popular to cast him as.

So he can only play well alongside Koscielny Says more about Koscielny who is a very good CB than Mertesacker who showed at the World Cup he is a poor CB.

greendom

Pierce_1991 wrote: »

http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2014/dec/22/per-mertesacker-meekness-poor-form-arsenal-lacking-security?CMP=share_btn_tw

Good article on why Per isn't quite the cowardly and ineffective player it's become popular to cast him as.

Great article, nice counter-point to the money for old rope punditry we get day in day out

emergingstar

greendom wrote: »

Great article, nice counter-point to the money for old rope punditry we get day in day out

Think it's s mediocre article

At the start he is stating how good he is and all his caps

Scroll further down he maintains he can only play with one other CB our best player kos

If he was as good as he maintains at the start of his article he should be able to play with a wide variety of CBs and my just kos

tayto lover

emergingstar wrote: »

Think it's s mediocre article

At the start he is stating how good he is and sll his caps

Scroll further down he maintains he can only play with one other CB our best player kos

If he was as good as he maintains at the start of his article he should be able to play with a wide variety of CBs and my just kos

Plus he's 6ft 6ins and is beaten regularly in the air by much smaller men.
He is good on the ground though but we want someone who combines both.

gosplan

MD1990 wrote: »

So he can only play well alongside Koscielny Says more about Koscielny who is a very good CB than Mertesacker who showed at the World Cup he is a poor CB.

Explain please. Germany conceded 4 goals in the tournament.

How exactly was Mert shown to be 'poor'?