Arsenal Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014/15

greendom

The floor is littered with toys at the moment. It seems that there is a lot of resentment to Wenger bubbling under the surface ready to explode once there's a poor result. Looking at the result itself its an extreme over-reaction but understandable where people are in their views on Wenger.

Soups123

Liam O wrote: »

A draw with Anderlecht causing a lot of meltdowns in here. City drew with CSKA Moscow in the last round, this was a freak result. Wenger has brought in Ozil and Sanchez the last 2 seasons. To say he's holding Arsenal back is ridiculous. Ozil will look fantastic in this current set up when he gets back imo. The first team is a match for anyone outside of the superclubs and a match for them on their day and improving every year. I know it's tough after years of winning little but I don't see how people can't see progress.

There is no way that over the last 5 years this team has improved year on year against the bigger clubs.

Yes Wenger has brought in two Marquee signings, one he continously plays out of position but he has ignored many other obvious short comings. The club has not progressed as shown by our repetive battle for forth every year and elimination from round two of the CL.

greendom

Soups123 wrote: »

There is no way that over the last 5 years this team has improved year on year against the bigger clubs.

Yes Wenger has brought in two Marquee signings, one he continously plays out of position but he has ignored many other obvious short comings. The club has not progressed as shown by our repetive battle for forth every year and elimination from round two of the CL.

over the last 5 years he's more or less par for the course. We have the 4th biggest wage bill in the league and we finish 4th.

gosplan

greendom wrote: »

over the last 5 years he's more or less par for the course. We have the 4th biggest wage bill in the league and we finish 4th.

I don't disagree but you have to look at purchases too.

We have had to develop young players and pay them wages that will hopefully make them stay.

greendom

gosplan wrote: »

I don't disagree but you have to look at purchases too.

We have had to develop young players and pay them wages that will hopefully make them stay.

With purchases (or net spend) Wenger is performing better than many of his rivals. Virtually every club has spent more on players than we have.

Liam O

Soups123 wrote: »

There is no way that over the last 5 years this team has improved year on year against the bigger clubs.

Yes Wenger has brought in two Marquee signings, one he continously plays out of position but he has ignored many other obvious short comings. The club has not progressed as shown by our repetive battle for forth every year and elimination from round two of the CL.

If City had lost Silva, Aguero and Toure over the last 3 or 4 years they wouldn't be up to too much these days. Wenger has lost RVP, Fabregas and Nasri among others and it didn't fall apart like it has for other teams like United and Liverpool at times. Ok, you haven't had the highs but there have been no significant lows and there has always been good football to watch. It's not the apocalypse style situation that's made out here at times.

emmetlego

The reason we haven't progressed as well as we should have is city and Chelsea. They are just too attractive to the better players this year, and for the last few years. Battling 2 superpowers (or 3 when Fergie was with manU) that we couldn't match financially, will take some time to overcome without huge spending, we all know AW won't do that. Currently we are cursed by injuries, especially to our defence, where 2 of our back 4 are injured. Cut the man some slack, and judge him at the end of the season.

wawaman

emmetlego wrote: »

Cut the man some slack, and judge him at the end of the season.

...when we have been knocked out by Bayern, Real or Barca and have finished 4th in the league. Rinse and repeat next season and the one after

emmetlego

I'm just saying, I think we have improved the team, but we're cursed by injuries even more so this year. Hence the 'cut him some slack' comment.

Gringo180

I actually feel sorry for Monreal, he was starting to play very well at left back in place of Gibbs and now through Wengers ineptness he is getting slated by some.

tayto lover

greendom wrote: »

The floor is littered with toys at the moment. It seems that there is a lot of resentment to Wenger bubbling under the surface ready to explode once there's a poor result. Looking at the result itself its an extreme over-reaction but understandable where people are in their views on Wenger.

Wenger hasn't a clue on tactics at all.
If last night and last season didn't convince some of that fact then nothing will.

http://www.cityam.com/1412534657/arsenal-fail-beat-top-four-team-14th-game-row-defeat-chelsea

Looper007

emmetlego wrote: »

I'm just saying, I think we have improved the team, but we're cursed by injuries even more so this year. Hence the 'cut him some slack' comment.

Oh come on, have you seen our lack of a top quality central defence and defensive midfielder, which he should have went out and bought big in those positions. He hasn't improved the team emmetlego, if he did we would have swept aside teams like Bruges and Hull without much fuss. He deserves the slack that comes his way cause the problems lay at his feet cause he chose to ignore them cause he's stubborn.

Looper007

tayto lover wrote: »

Wenger hasn't a clue on tactics at all.
If last night and last season didn't convince some of that fact then nothing will.

http://www.cityam.com/1412534657/arsenal-fail-beat-top-four-team-14th-game-row-defeat-chelsea

I do think some of the Anti Wenger group do throw out the toys from the prams calling Scz "average" and that we are no better then a bottom team is a little OTT on some people's parts on here.

But Wenger is guilty of a lot of things, been out fought and out played by the bigger managers and teams for the past few years, not showing a lot of fight on the sidelines (instead of moaning to linesmen and such, he should be shouting at his players to motive them) and been far too stubborn to see the faults in his team (centre back and Defensive midfielder been two positions he needs to buy big in for the past few years) and happy to accept 4th, its not good enough really.

greendom

Over 30 years in football management and the man hasn't a clue. How does he do it ?

Looper007

greendom wrote: »

Over 30 years in football management and the man hasn't a clue. How does he do it ?

Going by the last few seasons you have to question is he up to the task anymore. We as fans have every right to question him Greendom, no fan in here or going to the games week in and week out are happy to be getting 4th and been shown up by nothing teams like Bruges and Hull and the likes. This is a big club and Wenger seems to have forgotten that as he's got far too comfortable for me.

Gringo180

greendom wrote: »

Over 30 years in football management and the man hasn't a clue. How does he do it ?

Bit harsh man. He knows a thousand times more than any of us on here. He has won trophies everywhere he has gone its just he is putting too much faith in players that aren't up to it. Players who aren't intelligent as players we had when we were successful.

Ken Shamrock

Gringo180 wrote: »

Bit harsh man. He knows a thousand times more than any of us on here. He has won trophies everywhere he has gone its just he is putting too much faith in players that aren't up to it.

So in other words he's being an ineffective manager

greendom

Looper007 wrote: »

Going by the last few seasons you have to question is he up to the task anymore. We as fans have every right to question him Greendom, no fan in here or going to the games week in and week out are happy to be getting 4th and been shown up by nothing teams like Bruges and Hull and the likes. This is a big club and Wenger seems to have forgotten that as he's got far too comfortable for me.

yes we're a big club - the 4th biggest in England based on budgets. It will take someone very special to overcome that. I agree that Wenger is not at the level he once was and perhaps him 20 years ago could have been the one to advance the club ahead of the 2 Manchester clubs and Chelsea

greendom

Gringo180 wrote: »

Bit harsh man. He knows a thousand times more than any of us on here. He has won trophies everywhere he has gone its just he is putting too much faith in players that aren't up to it. Players who aren't intelligent as players we had when we were successful.

I agree, I was being sarcastic

Gringo180

Bob.Carcass wrote: »

So in other words he's being an ineffective manager

Without a doubt. But the players have to take some of the blame too. Too many of them are under performing.

ugsparky

gnfnrhead wrote: »

Funny how quickly people have turned on Mertesacker. We have to be the worst supporters when we don't get the win, and sometimes even when we do.

Not true ... I was a big fan of the BFG, but this season he is pure crap and he's as good as admitted that himself. It's quite obvious his failings have been covered by Koscielny.

As for being the worst supporters ... I've supported them since the days of black and white TV - have spent a fortune going to see them play and on club merchandise, almost got sacked for taking time off work to watch a game on TV, so I think I'm entitled to speak my mind about the club I love.

The simple facts are this - we have three, four possibly five players who wouldn't even get into Chelsea, City, Real, Barca, Bayern, Dortmund, PSG, Juve squads let alone teams. We've been told the manager has the say on all things football and if he wishes to spend the board will sanction it. I used to think it was the board denying funds - now I believe Arsene Wenger is just too stubborn and comfortable to admit his mistakes and failings.

January will come and go and I don't believe our problems will be addressed. Players we have coveted before will be available in 2015 and we will once again fail to buy them in 2015.

In the past Hazard, Goetze, Higuan etc., Khedira, Sneiderlin Manolas etc. at present, Reus, Draxler, Hummels etc in the future ... always the same with us, always the same excuses - other top teams go out and buy what they need - we get empty promises - last night showed us that unless we begin to change we will fall out of Europe and slide away from the top four. The fact we put emphasis on top four Champions Lge qualification is in itself a statement of our lack of intent.

I was so excited by our signings during the summer - but I said at the time unless we back up Sanchez with Khedira/Carvalho/Sneiderlin and quality cover at centre back to challenge Mert and Kos, then we won't be making a statement of intent. Arsene pulled the plug, or possibly allowed the plug to be pulled because I know we were definitely sniffing Reus - but settled for Danny Wellbeck. Who knows what happened about the promised cover for Vermaelen and the "desired" defensive midfielder - I suspect a combination of Kroenke/Gazidas questioning the need for more investment and a stubborn bloody mindedness on Wenger's part. Whatever way you look at it we are no hopers in the Champions Lge, no hopers for the Premiership - I wouldn't be surprised if Utd spank us at home in a few weeks.

We can make all the excuses we want, and I admire some of the guys here sticking to their guns and looking at a jar half full - but the truth is we are now second tier in Europe and the Premiership - we are not even playing entertaining football, it's dross - I think Arsene needs to step down and try for Klopp, der Boer/Bergkamp, Koeman ...

Bridge93

Looper007 wrote: »

Going by the last few seasons you have to question is he up to the task anymore. We as fans have every right to question him Greendom, no fan in here or going to the games week in and week out are happy to be getting 4th and been shown up by nothing teams like Bruges and Hull and the likes. This is a big club and Wenger seems to have forgotten that as he's got far too comfortable for me.

By Bruges I assume you mean Anderlecht? Funny one to screw up considering the game was only last night.

Ken Shamrock

Bridge93 wrote: »

By Bruges I assume you mean Anderlecht? Funny one to screw up considering the game was only last night.

Obviously, he didn't screw up either its like when you say madrid, your obviously referring to real madrid.

greendom

Bob.Carcass wrote: »

Obviously, he didn't screw up either its like when you say madrid, your obviously referring to real madrid.

Except Anderlecht is in Brussels, not Bruges

Ken Shamrock

greendom wrote: »

Except Anderlecht is in Brussels, not Bruges

But of course

efb

greendom wrote: »

Over 30 years in football management and the man hasn't a clue. How does he do it ?

First manager in over 100 years to win the league unbeaten too...

Soups123

efb wrote: »

First manager in over 100 years to win the league unbeaten too...

No one is doubting he had success, he was revolutionary in his day but he has failed to evolve with the game.

If he ever has a chance of sucess again he needs a fresh start himself

Ken Shamrock

efb wrote: »

First manager in over 100 years to win the league unbeaten too...

Yes i think we're all well aware of Wenger's success in the PAST, we care about the present and future tho, and it's not looking great.

king Henry 14

I think there comes a time in everybody's career when they're just not up to the task anymore and Wenger has reached that point. Can't motivate the team,can't get tactics right, can't sign players for positions that are blatantly huge holes in the team and can't/won't accept responsibility for his own shortcomings.
If I was to pick a new manager for arsenal it would be Diego simeone. I think a new direction/work ethic is needed and simeone is the type of character to motivate the players and weed out the players not giving 100 percent. We can't continue on this groundhog day journey indefinitely because the outcome every season will be the same.
CHANGE IS A MUST.

Paj

I’m sure the majority of us who think that a change is due are grateful to Wenger for all he’s done and hold the man in the high regard he deserves.

Pierce_1991

Who would people like to see replace Wenger if he was to go (not that I believe he will)?

I'd personally love to see Klopp get the job.

Gringo180

Pierce_1991 wrote: »

Who would people like to see replace Wenger if he was to go (not that I believe he will)?

I'd personally love to see Klopp get the job.

I would of said the same but domestically they are in a much much worse state than we are. I would be leaning towards De Boer and Bergkamp as his assistant myself or maybe even bring Steve Staunton back out of the wilderness.

















:pac:

Soups123

Pierce_1991 wrote: »

Who would people like to see replace Wenger if he was to go (not that I believe he will)?

I'd personally love to see Klopp get the job.

I dont know but I would love a complete change in philoshy and approach, some interested in building a big, strong, fast team with different types of players. Going into games and seeing obvious tactical ploys.

AdamD

Liam O wrote: »

A draw with Anderlecht causing a lot of meltdowns in here. City drew with CSKA Moscow in the last round, this was a freak result. Wenger has brought in Ozil and Sanchez the last 2 seasons. To say he's holding Arsenal back is ridiculous. Ozil will look fantastic in this current set up when he gets back imo. The first team is a match for anyone outside of the superclubs and a match for them on their day and improving every year. I know it's tough after years of winning little but I don't see how people can't see progress.

I think its pretty insulting to a lot of posts to completely remove all context and looks at it as just a 'draw', come on.

tayto lover

Liam O wrote: »

A draw with Anderlecht causing a lot of meltdowns in here. City drew with CSKA Moscow in the last round, this was a freak result. Wenger has brought in Ozil and Sanchez the last 2 seasons. To say he's holding Arsenal back is ridiculous. Ozil will look fantastic in this current set up when he gets back imo. The first team is a match for anyone outside of the superclubs and a match for them on their day and improving every year. I know it's tough after years of winning little but I don't see how people can't see progress.

After being 3 up and playing at home?
Wenger is holding Arsenal back imo.
I often wonder how many titles we would have won if he'd spent money where it was needed BUT some are happy just with Top 4. I also wonder why our best players also wanted out to teams with ambition after winning Top 4.

Kirby

Liam O wrote: »

Ozil will look fantastic in this current set up when he gets back imo.

What makes you think that? Sanchez is playing in that number 10 role behind the striker at the moment. Is Wenger going to move Sanchez to accommodate Ozil? I doubt it.

More likely he will leave sanchez where he is and play Ozil on the wing.....again. He hasn't performed there before, why perform there now?

I don't mean to pick a fight but I'm baffled at your confidence that Ozil will magically perform when he comes back.

Liam O

AdamD wrote: »

I think its pretty insulting to a lot of posts to completely remove all context and looks at it as just a 'draw', come on.

As I said it's a freak result. Every team has them. This one is fairly meaningless, I wouldn't call it a big deal. United's loss to Leicester was similar enough, there's not enough acceptance of transition in here. Wenger's main mistake this summer was not buying defensive cover, once that gets sorted Arsenal are only short an improvement to Flamini and Arteta from being a really awesome team. Knee jerk decisions like wanting to sack Wenger wont help that in the slightest.

tayto lover

Liam O wrote: »

As I said it's a freak result. Every team has them. This one is fairly meaningless, I wouldn't call it a big deal. United's loss to Leicester was similar enough, there's not enough acceptance of transition in here. Wenger's main mistake this summer was not buying defensive cover, once that gets sorted Arsenal are only short an improvement to Flamini and Arteta from being a really awesome team. Knee jerk decisions like wanting to sack Wenger wont help that in the slightest.

So how will a CB and a DM make Wenger tactically astute?

I know they are needed and have posted many times on that subject. However I have to agree with the posters who compared Wenger to Brian Clough in his latter years as a manager.

Liam O

Liam O wrote: »

As I said it's a freak result. Every team has them. This one is fairly meaningless, I wouldn't call it a big deal. United's loss to Leicester was similar enough, there's not enough acceptance of transition in here. Wenger's main mistake this summer was not buying defensive cover, once that gets sorted Arsenal are only short an improvement to Flamini and Arteta from being a really awesome team. Knee jerk decisions like wanting to sack Wenger wont help that in the slightest.

When did this "transition" start?
The team is actually barer at the back than last season. Last year with the same injuries the back 4 would've been Jenkinson-Kos-Vermaelen-Monreal. Good bit more solid. Hell even taking into account Vermaelen's injury now it could've been Jenkinson-Kos-Chambers-Monreal if we didn't ship out 3 defenders including a starter while signing one starter.

extra gravy

Liam O wrote: »

As I said it's a freak result. Every team has them. This one is fairly meaningless, I wouldn't call it a big deal. United's loss to Leicester was similar enough, there's not enough acceptance of transition in here. Wenger's main mistake this summer was not buying defensive cover, once that gets sorted Arsenal are only short an improvement to Flamini and Arteta from being a really awesome team. Knee jerk decisions like wanting to sack Wenger wont help that in the slightest.

I would call it a big deal. We blew a 3 goal lead at home to one of the worst sides in the competition and your only reply to that is that it's a "freak result". We've had a lot of "freak results" over the years though haven't we? 8-2 at Old Trafford, 6-1 at Stamford Bridge, 6-3 at City, 5-1 at Anfield. The common denominator is all of those results is Wenger, his tactical ineptitude and his failure to address the weaknesses in his squad. As for transistion, that period is supposed to have past and this is the time when we are supposed to be pushing on and competing again. But instead we're faced with getting knocked out of the CL in the knockout stages again and fighting for 4th AGAIN. Sacking Wenger isn't a kneejerk reaction, a lot of fans have wanted him gone for a while now. And I don't think we will see any progress until someone new is at the helm.

extra gravy

extra gravy wrote: »

I would call it a big deal. We blew a 3 goal lead at home to one of the worst sides in the competition and your only reply to that is that it's a "freak result". We've had a lot of "freak results" over the years though haven't we? 8-2 at Old Trafford, 6-1 at Stamford Bridge, 6-3 at City, 5-1 at Anfield. The common denominator is all of those results is Wenger, his tactical ineptitude and his failure to address the weaknesses in his squad. As for transistion, that period is supposed to have past and this is the time when we are supposed to be pushing on and competing again. But instead we're faced with getting knocked out of the CL in the knockout stages again and fighting for 4th AGAIN. Sacking Wenger isn't a kneejerk reaction, a lot of fans have wanted him gone for a while now. And I don't think we will see any progress until someone new is at the helm.

4-4 against Newcastle...

bad2dabone

Honestly I don't think freak result covers it. There's a weakness to this team, everyone knows it. It's basically a lack of leadership and pragmatism. One proper leader with the match intelligence to close out a three nil lead. To tighten the game up when Liverpool scored twice in the opening ten minutes. Likewise vs Chelsea last season. Sami khedira should have been acquired in the summer. At a minimum.

Kirby

bad2dabone wrote: »

It's basically a lack of leadership and pragmatism. One proper leader with the match intelligence to close out a three nil lead.

Leadership isn't quantifiable and that's why I don't like talking about it. For example you can say he is 4 inches taller than him.....he is 6 seconds quicker than him over 100m.....

You cant say "He has four more leaderships!" can you?

It's not that complicated. Get some big thunderbast*rds in the team that sit in front of the back 4, concentrate on defending and breaking up play and have the size and speed to put the fear into the opposition. You are 3-0 up. Not winning from there is a disaster.

Gringo180

bad2dabone wrote: »

Honestly I don't think freak result covers it. There's a weakness to this team, everyone knows it. It's basically a lack of leadership and pragmatism. One proper leader with the match intelligence to close out a three nil lead. To tighten the game up when Liverpool scored twice in the opening ten minutes. Likewise vs Chelsea last season. Sami khedira should have been acquired in the summer. At a minimum.

Not only do we lack leaders but this team is too soft. Only 2 players I would say have a real physicality about them would be Debuchy and Flamini (who I think is mediocre at best). Maybe Wilshere too.

Ajfunky

These types of draws/losses are important more for how they are lost as opposed to the end result. How we can drop a 3 goal lead to a team in a far less competitive league does not bode well for how we are going to do in the league this year.

I have been falling off the Wenger bandwagon from the start of this year after having been a pretty staunch defender of his. There is no sense in the shortcomings of our team at the moment and why we are doing nothing to fix them. Just look at our scoring record with the formations we have been putting out week in week out. We are scoring random free kicks, penalties or random flashes from Alexis and one or two other players who have said "F**k the tactics, im going to get a goal." Barely any of our fast passing, 9 man-flutter-around-the-box plays have come to anything bar a counter attack which ends up losing us a goal.

And the problem is I really do believe we have some great players in this team. A team does not have to be based around 11 40m purchases. Taking advantage of the best points of some players and incorporating their strengths into our play is how we should be winning these games. We know Ramsey and Arteta can defend, we know have the pace of Sanchez, Oxlade, and Welbeck, and we have the creativity of either Wilshere, Ozil or Cazorla, yet we are still committing a full midfield and half of a defence up the top half of the pitch, meaning the other team keeps their full team back, confident in the knowledge we are going to pass it around the box looking for the perfect triangle. Its a stale philosophy which is getting us nowhere and giving Mourinhos "Specialist in failure" line some prophecy, no matter how arrogant and despicable he was for saying it.

Its infuriating that we are in a loop here at the Arsenal forum, suggesting the same avenues for improvement week in week out and seeing the same problems crop up. I have no idea what Wengers endgame is with sticking to a failing system, and its becoming impossible to defend his actions anymore. Its been a long time since we as Arsenal fans have been able to walk into a work office with our heads held high above our Man City, Chelsea, Liverpool compatriots. They can just smell our next downfall on the Horizon from the standard of the games we actually win.

Bah.

Alfred Borden

Gringo180 wrote: »

I actually feel sorry for Monreal, he was starting to play very well at left back in place of Gibbs and now through Wengers ineptness he is getting slated by some.

Gotta agree here, he is a fine left back imo

Alfred Borden

Looper007 wrote: »

I do think some of the Anti Wenger group do throw out the toys from the prams calling Scz "average" and that we are no better then a bottom team is a little OTT on some people's parts on here

Ah come off it Looper, I remember you calling him average last year :pac:

Alfred Borden

Saw it on twitter but how would people feel about us coming third and dropping into the Europa? Could win it as its more our level like the FA cup, mightnt be bad to add a european trophy.

Quazzie

Raf32 wrote: »

Saw it on twitter but how would people feel about us coming third and dropping into the Europa? Could win it as its more our level like the FA cup, mightnt be bad to add a european trophy.

We're going to need to concentrate on the league to get 4th again so I'd rather is be out of Europe altogether than in the EL which seems to be more a "Spurs" cup than one we'd want to be associated with.

Alfred Borden

Quazzie wrote: »

We're going to need to concentrate on the league to get 4th again so I'd rather is be out of Europe altogether than in the EL which seems to be more a "Spurs" cup than one we'd want to be associated with.

Doesnt the winner of that get champions league next year though? Couldnt say no to a european trophy.