Arsenal Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014/15

emergingstar

I'm the biggest wenger fan here I have no doubt

But he left us short at the back

And some of his tactics are just weird

I feel he have until the season end to sort it all out

extra gravy

greendom wrote: »

No he hasn't. His hands were tied for most of that period by the stadium build. I'm getting bored of repeating that so often.

The stadium build has nothing to do with the tactical incompetence and poor game management we've seen this season and other seasons though. It seems to be an easy excuse for everything.

greendom

extra gravy wrote: »

The stadium build has nothing to do with the tactical incompetence and poor game management we've seen this season and other seasons though. It seems to be an easy excuse for everything.

It's not an excuse for the poor performances this season, but it has been a major factor in impacting our ability to perform over the last 10 years, and it makes me really cross when Arsenal fans attempt to gloss over this.

wawaman

greendom wrote: »

It's not an excuse for the poor performances this season, but it has been a major factor in impacting our ability to perform over the last 10 years, and it makes me really cross when Arsenal fans attempt to gloss over this.

And it annoys me when alot of arsenal fans use this as an excuse to forgive everything that wengers does. It doesn't matter if we spent £100m each summer or £0, the simple fact is wenger doesn't do "tactics", he doesn't or can't set the team up depending on the opposition. If a team is set up right it has half a chance of getting a result even if the players aren't as high quality as the opposition eg. look at the amount of teams that we should have beaten over the years that have taken easy points from us. It feels at times that getting the defence right is beneath wenger

efb

emergingstar wrote: »

I'm the biggest wenger fan here I have no doubt

But he left us short at the back

And some of his tactics are just weird

I feel he have until the season end to sort it all out

I challenge you to a Wenger off! Do you wear Le Prof pyjamas??? :-P

greendom

wawaman wrote: »

And it annoys me when alot of arsenal fans use this as an excuse to forgive everything that wengers does. It doesn't matter if we spent £100m each summer or £0, the simple fact is wenger doesn't do "tactics", he doesn't or can't set the team up depending on the opposition. If a team is set up right it has half a chance of getting a result even if the players aren't as high quality as the opposition eg. look at the amount of teams that we should have beaten over the years that have taken easy points from us. It feels at times that getting the defence right is beneath wenger

I agree with this to a degree, as it's not a black and white issue. Wenger has made some major errors in his time, but the blanket 10 years yada yada is seriously annoying.

emmetlego

wawaman wrote: »

And it annoys me when alot of arsenal fans use this as an excuse to forgive everything that wengers does. It doesn't matter if we spent £100m each summer or £0, the simple fact is wenger doesn't do "tactics", he doesn't or can't set the team up depending on the opposition. If a team is set up right it has half a chance of getting a result even if the players aren't as high quality as the opposition eg. look at the amount of teams that we should have beaten over the years that have taken easy points from us. It feels at times that getting the defence right is beneath wenger

With complete respect, as I obviously do not know your wealth of experience, but I will back a man of renowned who has won several EPL titles, FA cups and brought a team to the champions league final, over people on a forum who sometimes come across as modern keyboard warriors (not calling you that wawaman, by the way).

I feel like a broken record. Our start to this season has been blighted by injuries, and a loss of form of one of our main defenders. Not a lot a manager can do about that.

He has tried to rectify the injury craze in the club, with a sharp and concise appointment of one of the most respected S+C coaches in the world.

He has purchased a top top class forward that we are all buzzing about. He has purchased what most consider an upgrade on Sagna. He has purchased what most consider to be the next England CH sensation in Chambers. He tried but failed (by all accounts) to get Manolas (wanted 1st team football guaranteed), Carvalho (complicated contract, multi owner) amongst others (Schneiderlin, Khedira) but for various reasons, it fell through. This is not the work of a man who was lazy during the summer. He is a financially astute manager, that has our club in the very strong position we find ourselves in today. He was never going to buy a makeshift, expensive player, unless it fitted exactly the bill!!! That's just not Wenger.

I am very optimistic that when our injuries come back, and with a decent Jan signing (either CH or DMF) that we will be good contendors for 2nd. That will be a huge improvement, and I only say 2nd, because Jose has Chelsea in (close to) invincibles form…

I'll say it again. To avoid confusion. I'll be right behind AW until season's end, and will review then. If we miss out on top 4, or something like that, then we will of course have to take stock…

Until then, COME ON YOU GUNNERS!

keano_afc

emmetlego wrote: »

With complete respect, as I obviously do not know your wealth of experience, but I will back a man of renowned who has won several EPL titles, FA cups and brought a team to the champions league final, over people on a forum who sometimes come across as modern keyboard warriors (not calling you that wawaman, by the way).

I feel like a broken record. Our start to this season has been blighted by injuries, and a loss of form of one of our main defenders. Not a lot a manager can do about that.

He has tried to rectify the injury craze in the club, with a sharp and concise appointment of one of the most respected S+C coaches in the world.

He has purchased a top top class forward that we are all buzzing about. He has purchased what most consider an upgrade on Sagna. He has purchased what most consider to be the next England CH sensation in Chambers. He tried but failed (by all accounts) to get Manolas (wanted 1st team football guaranteed), Carvalho (complicated contract, multi owner) amongst others (Schneiderlin, Khedira) but for various reasons, it fell through. This is not the work of a man who was lazy during the summer. He is a financially astute manager, that has our club in the very strong position we find ourselves in today. He was never going to buy a makeshift, expensive player, unless it fitted exactly the bill!!! That's just not Wenger.

I am very optimistic that when our injuries come back, and with a decent Jan signing (either CH or DMF) that we will be good contendors for 2nd. That will be a huge improvement, and I only say 2nd, because Jose has Chelsea in (close to) invincibles form…

I'll say it again. To avoid confusion. I'll be right behind AW until season's end, and will review then. If we miss out on top 4, or something like that, then we will of course have to take stock…

Until then, COME ON YOU GUNNERS!

I would agree with a lot of what you say, but not the bit I've highlighted. Form and team formation are no doubt contributing to our slide, but Wenger is paid a great deal of money to address this. If there are players out of form we have the resources in some areas to replace. For example, Rosicky and Podolski are kicking their heels there probably wondering what they have to do to get a game. We went into this season with only 2 senior centre backs. That is entirely down to the manager and completely unforgivable.

There are is little wrong with this team that could be reasonably avoided.

jonneymendoza

Like I said his had 10 years to fix it. You don't need to splash the cash to buy a single see average decent dcm. Having a plan b. Teaching your players how to defend and playing players in there preferred position!

emmetlego

jonneymendoza wrote: »

Like I said his had 10 years to fix it. You don't need to splash the cash to buy a single see average decent dcm. Having a plan b. Teaching your players how to defend and playing players in there preferred position!

What??

We have 2 average DMFs already.

We had a plan B last week and he was slated for it. He's also working with a makeshift defence through injuries etc (as explained above).

Some opinions just beggar belief. I'll stop on about this now. I'll just stick to current Gunner issues instead of re-hashed, over debated stuff!

Soups123

emmetlego wrote: »

With complete respect, as I obviously do not know your wealth of experience, but I will back a man of renowned who has won several EPL titles, FA cups and brought a team to the champions league final, over people on a forum who sometimes come across as modern keyboard warriors (not calling you that wawaman, by the way).

I feel like a broken record. Our start to this season has been blighted by injuries, and a loss of form of one of our main defenders. Not a lot a manager can do about that.

He has tried to rectify the injury craze in the club, with a sharp and concise appointment of one of the most respected S+C coaches in the world.

He has purchased a top top class forward that we are all buzzing about. He has purchased what most consider an upgrade on Sagna. He has purchased what most consider to be the next England CH sensation in Chambers. He tried but failed (by all accounts) to get Manolas (wanted 1st team football guaranteed), Carvalho (complicated contract, multi owner) amongst others (Schneiderlin, Khedira) but for various reasons, it fell through. This is not the work of a man who was lazy during the summer. He is a financially astute manager, that has our club in the very strong position we find ourselves in today. He was never going to buy a makeshift, expensive player, unless it fitted exactly the bill!!! That's just not Wenger.

I am very optimistic that when our injuries come back, and with a decent Jan signing (either CH or DMF) that we will be good contendors for 2nd. That will be a huge improvement, and I only say 2nd, because Jose has Chelsea in (close to) invincibles form…

I'll say it again. To avoid confusion. I'll be right behind AW until season's end, and will review then. If we miss out on top 4, or something like that, then we will of course have to take stock…

Until then, COME ON YOU GUNNERS!

And on the bolded part, its not lazy people have called him its incompetent and even your text shows that.

He was unable to address the areas that needed addressing, you assume he did all these things buts whether he did or not is irrelvant, he delivered on none.

I hate when a poster declares 'with respect' that he doesnt take the opinion of those with a negative slant over those of the manager and then go on to post as if they understand the underlying issues and excuses to cover Wenger themselves.

On the last part even those who think he needs to go have said he should see the season out and decisions made then.

Soups123

emmetlego wrote: »

What??

We have 2 average DMFs already.

We had a plan B last week and he was slated for it. He's also working with a makeshift defence through injuries etc (as explained above).

Some opinions just beggar belief. I'll stop on about this now. I'll just stick to current Gunner issues instead of re-hashed, over debated stuff!

He has had two seasons to address the DM issues, and its his decision we still have as you say it two average DMs. But hey thats not his fault!

He is dealing with a makeshift defense because he failed to sign the support he said was needed. One CB would have made the last 4/5 weeks a lot easier

jonneymendoza

emmetlego wrote: »

What??

We have 2 average DMFs already.

We had a plan B last week and he was slated for it. He's also working with a makeshift defence through injuries etc (as explained above).

Some opinions just beggar belief. I'll stop on about this now. I'll just stick to current Gunner issues instead of re-hashed, over debated stuff!

Arteta is not a CDM and flamini is old

What plan B? we still play the same old trying to pass the ball to the net. so easy to defend against.

Explain why either cazola or wilshere plays down the wings(lol) or why he doesnt give joe cambell or podolski a try on the opposite sides of the wings?

stop making excuses lad

Ken Shamrock

Putting Yaya Sanogo on in the 90th minute is not a fcuking plan B!!! Ugh!

greendom

jonneymendoza wrote: »

Arteta is not a CDM and flamini is old

What plan B? we still play the same old trying to pass the ball to the net. so easy to defend against.

Explain why either cazola or wilshere plays down the wings(lol) or why he doesnt give joe cambell or podolski a try on the opposite sides of the wings?

stop making excuses lad

Arteta has been brilliant in the majority of games as a deep lying midfielder and we have really missed him when he's been absent.

Ardennes1944

Arteta seems to be getting more niggly injuries this season though which may push forward Wengers plan to replace him

jonneymendoza

greendom wrote: »

Arteta has been brilliant in the majority of games as a deep lying midfielder and we have really missed him when he's been absent.

his been ****. dont know what matches you been seeing. doesnt protect the back four enough just like the rest of the midfielders.

Wellbeck does more defending then Arteta

emmetlego

^^^ yep, I've read all of this before.

We'll just have to agree to disagree. Let's see come seasons end as I said. The vitriol towards the legend of Wenger is hard to fathom.

keano_afc

greendom wrote: »

Arteta has been brilliant in the majority of games as a deep lying midfielder and we have really missed him when he's been absent.

Not good enough against the bigger teams though, there can be no debate on that.

Soups123

greendom wrote: »

Arteta has been brilliant in the majority of games as a deep lying midfielder and we have really missed him when he's been absent.

I think thats a bit of an exageration.

I think he does really well in moving the ball from defense to midfield, its always missed when Flamini plays.

But he provides very little protection, breaks up very little play which is the other side of the DM role. I dont blame him for this because its not natural to his abilities, you have to look at the manager for playing him there and exposing us defensively

jonneymendoza

emmetlego wrote: »

^^^ yep, I've read all of this before.

We'll just have to agree to disagree. Let's see come seasons end as I said. The vitriol towards the legend of Wenger is hard to fathom.

yea usual boring scraping top 4 and getting beat by barca in the next round of the CL.

Colonialboy

emmetlego wrote: »

I'll say it again. To avoid confusion. I'll be right behind AW until season's end, and will review then. If we miss out on top 4, or something like that, then we will of course have to take stock…

Whats .... 'something like that '
what would qualify in the bracket for 'something like that' ,
cos bar recent FACup win , we have had a lot of seasons with 'something like that' and thats what people are pissed at.

Anyways the club is bigger than Wenger.
Lets see how plan B goes for the rest of the season, (launching Sanogo off the bench in the 90th minute to strike fear into Swanseas boots)

tayto lover

greendom wrote: »

It's not an excuse for the poor performances this season, but it has been a major factor in impacting our ability to perform over the last 10 years, and it makes me really cross when Arsenal fans attempt to gloss over this.

What about his tactical ability?

greendom

tayto lover wrote: »

What about his tactical ability?

Personally I think that is way over-played - it's just another stick to beat him with.

Ken Shamrock

greendom wrote: »

Personally I think that is way over-played - it's just another stick to beat him with.

Cringe worthy

greendom

Bob.Carcass wrote: »

Cringe worthy

like the majority of your posts

tayto lover

greendom wrote: »

Personally I think that is way over-played - it's just another stick to beat him with.

So he has none then.
We saw that so often from him. Change nothing during a game like in last season's drubbings and even last weekend when our RB was being tortured.
Not able to place the team to hold onto a lead. Continue to allow them to bomb forward when 3 up and get caught with big gaps in the middle.
Not good enough.

Ken Shamrock

greendom wrote: »

like the majority of your posts

Ooooh harsh :rolleyes:

: No point in getting upset pal, i didn't mean cringe worthy as an insult just more in my head "How can he ignore the tactical faults of Wenger and play them off as a stick to beat him with"

tayto lover

Ozil out for a further 7 weeks :mad:
SSN.

greendom

just to balance the argument a little - found this interesting article re Wenger's tactics....

http://untold-arsenal.com/archives/38943

greendom

Bob.Carcass wrote: »

Ooooh harsh :rolleyes:

: No point in getting upset pal, i didn't mean cringe worthy as an insult just more in my head "How can he ignore the tactical faults of Wenger and play them off as a stick to beat him with"

That's just the way I see it. When things go wrong, tactics is often thrown out there. I think it is an over-used and mis-used term.

Ken Shamrock

greendom wrote: »

That's just the way I see it. When things go wrong, tactics is often thrown out there. I think it is an over-used and mis-used term.

That's fair enough. What do you think is the reason then?

tayto lover

greendom wrote: »

That's just the way I see it. When things go wrong, tactics is often thrown out there. I think it is an over-used and mis-used term.

Tactics is how you plan to play against the opposition surely. How to use your strengths and play against their weaknesses, how you set up both home and away, when you're short and when your at full strength.

How on earth can that be misused? It's the basis of football.

greendom

Bob.Carcass wrote: »

That's fair enough. What do you think is the reason then?

I think against Swansea, Chambers wasn't up to the task of defending against Moreno, who had a tremendous match, ditto Monreal who couldn't cope with the aerial strength of Gomis and Flamini who's positioning was poor for the first goal. Had we played with Debuchy, Koscielny and Arteta, I don't think we would have conceded in that game.

But football is football, it's not an exact science and players make mistakes

greendom

tayto lover wrote: »

Tactics is how you plan to play against the opposition surely. How to use your strengths and play against their weaknesses, how you set up both home and away, when you're short and when your at full strength.

How on earth can that be misused? It's the basis of football.

It's a catch all when things go wrong. It's the flavour of the month very easy stick to beat Wenger with.

Soups123

greendom wrote: »

That's just the way I see it. When things go wrong, tactics is often thrown out there. I think it is an over-used and mis-used term.

Got to disagree, tactics have grown and grown over the past decade, you can see that by how many flukes there have been and or nearly been in some cups and leagues.

Wenger has always said he looks at his team only when planning for a game, he is not concerned with there plan.

Interesting is how many coaches referenced talking to Alex Ferguson before a game with Arsenal, he could tell them how to go about us. Its the reason why the big teams beat us regularly they found the way to beat us and have yet to see us change meaning they repeat the same approach each time.

tayto lover

greendom wrote: »

It's a catch all when things go wrong. It's the flavour of the month very easy stick to beat Wenger with.

Only because he's useless at it.

greendom

tayto lover wrote: »

Only because he's useless at it.

Have you read the article I posted above ?

Soups123

greendom wrote: »

It's a catch all when things go wrong. It's the flavour of the month very easy stick to beat Wenger with.

When was the last time you thought 'wow what Arsene did there changed the game' or 'wow the change in approach today against x team really caught them off guard'

Now think back to Jose, Alex, Pelligrini Guadiola and the likes and I bet you'll remember examples

Ken Shamrock

greendom wrote: »

I think against Tuesday, Chambers wasn't up to the task of defending against Moreno, who had a tremendous match, ditto Monreal who couldn't cope with the aerial strength of Gomis and Flamini who's positioning was poor for the first goal. Had we played with Debuchy, Koscielny and Arteta, I don't think we would have conceded in that game.

But football is football, it's not an exact science and players make mistakes

But surely Wenger could have done something to help Chambers? If Wenger had bought sufficient cb cover then Monreal would not be playing CB also if Wenger played bellerin right and chambers centrally like most us would have liked then Monreal would not have been in that position.

If Wenger had bought a CDM like we were screaming out for then Flamini would not have been playing so he wouldn't be at fault. Solving all of the problems you mentioned. I know it's easy in hindsight to say this that and the other but really those deficiencies had been discovered and discussed long before the game.

omega man

greendom wrote: »

Personally I think that is way over-played - it's just another stick to beat him with.

Haven't ex players come out and said he never reviewed the opposition with his players using video analysis? In isolation that's not a massive deal I guess but if you include the fact he doesn't set up tactically according to the opposition then for me it points to a manager who only focuses on his own team and almost discounts the opposition whether it's Stoke or Barcelona.

Of course when this approach worked it really worked with some of the most sublime attacking football in Europe but even that's abandoned us lately.

For me he urgently needs to address the balance of attack and defense. I want to see more urgency to win the ball back, particularly in mid field but do we have the type of players to do this? It doesn't necessarily need to be big strong mid field players (DMs) but more of a collective approach like barca under pep etc. players committed to hound the opposition in packs. Am I too naïve to think this could be done with the players we have?

So is wenger tactically incapable or just too damn stubborn to adapt. I think the latter as the guy has a serious footballing brain, doesn't he?

CatInABox

tayto lover wrote: »

Ozil out for a further 7 weeks :mad:
SSN.

Well, someone has to keep the injury room warm for Diaby.

*cries*

tayto lover

greendom wrote: »

Have you read the article I posted above ?

Yes but i didn't need to. I know how we play under Wenger.
The problem is that so does every good manager in the league and they find it easy to play against us.

greendom

Bob.Carcass wrote: »

But surely Wenger could have done something to help Chambers? If Wenger had bought sufficient cb cover then Monreal would not be playing CB also if Wenger played bellerin right and chambers centrally like most us would have liked then Monreal would not have been in that position.

If Wenger had bought a CDM like we were screaming out for then Flamini would not have been playing so he wouldn't be at fault. Solving all of the problems you mentioned. I know it's easy in hindsight to say this that and the other but really those deficiencies had been discovered and discussed long before the game.

most of us, at home watching on tv or even the poor bastards who travelled all that way and stood in the rain don't have a clue what goes on in training day in day out or what instructions are given to players and whether they obey them or not so we're in no position to judge

Yes we do look short at centre back and maybe a DMF should have been brought in, but that's not tactics, that's the transfer window and not getting the correct deals done in time.

wandatowell

Was moving my broadband to Sky today and got chatting to the sales guy, turns out he thinks Arsene has to go at the end of the season. (Prick almost lost a sale :P)

Getting my hair cut just before lunch and the barber said they same thing.


They were a Utd and a Liverpool fan. Seems to be a growing number of non-Arsenal fans saying the same as above. Quite a few lads in work are saying the same.

greendom

CatInABox wrote: »

Well, someone has to keep the injury room warm for Diaby.

*cries*

Yes Diaby out for another 3 months with his hamstring. He must be at the point of giving up now.

At least Giroud is back in full training

Ken Shamrock

greendom wrote: »

most of us, at home watching on tv or even the poor bastards who travelled all that way and stood in the rain don't have a clue what goes on in training day in day out or what instructions are given to players and whether they ovey them or not so we're in no position to judge

Yes we do look short at centre back and maybe a DMF should have been brought in, but that's not tactics, that's the transfer window and not getting the correct deals done in time.

What goes on in training is irrelevant to what happens on match day, they can have the best training sessions in the world it doesn't matter if it's not put into practice, we are all in a position to judge.

Yes we are very short at CB hence why Monreal plays there now and we definitely need a DMF, those 2 problems aren't tactical no, but you make your tactics based on what players you have at your disposal.

tayto lover

greendom wrote: »

most of us, at home watching on tv or even the poor bastards who travelled all that way and stood in the rain don't have a clue what goes on in training day in day out or what instructions are given to players and whether they obey them or not so we're in no position to judge

Yes we do look short at centre back and maybe a DMF should have been brought in, but that's not tactics, that's the transfer window and not getting the correct deals done in time.

The way we set up and play dictates that we need an excellent DM who is dedicated not to cross the half-way line and play in an arc in front of the back four. When we lose the ball in their half he covers any break as well as the fullbacks getting back fast.
We don't need a DM like Flamini to be caught like he was so far forward against Swansea and leaving a huge gap in the middle. A good DM should always be behind the ball imo.

tayto lover

tayto lover wrote: »

The way we set up and play dictates that we need an excellent DM who is dedicated not to cross the half-way line and play in an arc in front of the back four. When we lose the ball in their half he covers any break as well as the fullbacks getting back fast.
We don't need a DM like Flamini to be caught like he was so far forward against Swansea and leaving a huge gap in the middle. A good DM should always be behind the ball imo.

This kinda stuff is incredibly frustrating. It's not rocket science. Tell someone not to go forward, and you'd expect that's easy enough for them to remember.

Edit: The even more frustrating thing is that Flamini actually offers nothing going forward anyway.....so why would he ever need to be up there?

keano_afc

Basil3 wrote: »

This kinda stuff is incredibly frustrating. It's not rocket science. Tell someone not to go forward, and you'd expect that's easy enough for them to remember.

Edit: The even more frustrating thing is that Flamini actually offers nothing going forward anyway.....so why would he ever need to be up there?

Because Wenger sets out his teams to press high up he pitch to win the ball back - like Barca a few years ago. We dont have the players to do it and despite the situation on the park changing, the instructions from the sideline dont. This was evident in the last 2 games, 6 players ahead of the ball despite defending a lead. But thats what we do.