Arsenal Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014/15

greendom

Bob.Carcass wrote: »

That is just ridiculous, If you want to kid yourself then fire away. He did a good job, for a while, then he dropped off very consistently i might add. As the squad got better and funds became available our position never changed, our trophy cabinet never changed, with 1 exception.

The idea he kept Wycombe Wanderers in the top 4 is just insane, he had one of the most talented squads in europe for most of that time, he was unable to get them to produce their best and he was unable to motivate them. He was also unable to strengthen in the right areas.

We still haven't replaced Pat Vieira, or Sol Campbell and it doesn't look like we will anytime soon. You can't continue to think that we're just unlucky or disadvantaged every year. It's no coincidence that we are where we are.

Well that is why the **** is hitting the fan now. The expectation was that the club would be able to step on to the next level once the stadium debt was minimised. This hasn't happened yet and people are understandably frustrated after such a long wait. The fact that we are performing worse than last season is only compounding matters.

My bottom line is that he gets a free pass till the end of 2012 - 13 season due to the club's circumstances. Last year there were definite signs of improvement with the club leading the league for so long and winning the FA Cup. This year should have seen us closer again to City and Chelsea but we are looking as far away as we have ever done. The buck stops here

Ken Shamrock

greendom wrote: »

Well that is why the **** is hitting the fan now. The expectation was that the club would be able to step on to the next level once the stadium debt was minimised. This hasn't happened yet and people are understandably frustrated after such a long wait. The fact that we are performing worse than last season is only compounding matters.

My bottom line is that he gets a free pass till the end of 2012 - 13 season due to the club's circumstances. Last year there were definite signs of improvement with the club leading the league for so long and winning the FA Cup. This year should have seen us closer again to City and Chelsea but we are looking as far away as we have ever done. The buck stops here

Agree with everything there I have to say bar the free pass. No doubt he did a good job, but you can't just ignore all of the mistakes, the bad signings, the playing out of position, the neglect of important roles, the lack of tactics and adaptability all of which have carried over into present time. Now that he has no excuses he doesn't have a leg to stand on for me.

jonneymendoza

Mr Blobby wrote: »

The fact you think Ozil is average kinda suggest you don't have a clue.
You say he has average passing going by your stats (which you didn't provide) yet my stats say otherwise.

Lets compare Ozil to Wilshere since they play a similar role. I've bolded that who has the better stats in each passing section.
Now these stats are over an average 90m match.
Ozil:

Total Forward passes - 39.50
Total Backward passes - 26.83
Total Passes - 66.67
Successful Passes - 58.67
Chances created - 2.33
Key Passes - 2.17
Pass Completion - 88%

Jack Wilshere:

Total Forward passes - 28.11
Total Backward passes - 11.33
Total Passes - 39.78
Successful Passes - 32.89
Chances created - 0.78
Key Passes - 0.67
Pass Completion - 83%

So as you can see Ozil is well ahead of Jack passing wise. Now let me compare him to Juan Mata.

Again i'll bold the areas where he is better than Ozil.

Ozil:

Total Forward passes - 39.50
Total Backward passes - 26.83
Total Passes - 66.67
Successful Passes - 58.67
Chances created - 2.33
Key Passes - 2.17
Pass Completion - 88%

Mata:

Total Forward passes - 16.22
Total Backward passes - 21.56
Total Passes - 38
Successful Passes - 34.89
Chances created - 1.11
Key Passes - 1.0
Pass Completion - 92%

Apart from pass completion he is better everywhere else. I also done this over the course of this full season and Ozil still comes out well ahead of the pack.

Basically you saying Ozil is avarage is pure crap.. And saying the stats back it up is just false. If you had put 5mins into actually checking you'd have seen that.


*awaits reply stating that since you go to games you see more than everyone else and he's still crap bla bla bla...*

You pull those stats from where?

Stats dont tell the complete story. how many of those passes were easy passes vs risk passes?

Look at how many chances he has created, not many from your made up stats.

Does your stats show his poor positioning? his lack of cover in defence? The amount of distance he covers on the pitch? His overal decision making?

Nope it doesnt.

And you compare him to two average players ie wilshere and mata lol

greendom

greendom wrote: »

Based on the reduced funds available to Arsene, 8 of those 10 years were as successful as the pre Emirates period.

What does that mean exactly? :S

greendom

Deleted User wrote: »

What does that mean exactly? :S

relatively speaking

wonga77

So we're back to Ozil defending/bashing, Ches must be delighted he's off the hook for a few days
Who's up next???

Ken Shamrock

wonga77 wrote: »

So we're back to Ozil defending/bashing, Ches must be delighted he's off the hook for a few days
Who's up next???

I'd like to call Danny Welbeck to the stand please.

byrneg28

jonneymendoza wrote: »

1. he is average, stats and actual performance backed this up. he hasnt set the world alight at arsenal

2. Yes he has got a lot to do with the big defeats. lacklust passing and poor cover for defence is two prime examples.

3. I am not an armchair fan and i go to a lot of the big matches at the emirates. Just for comparison sakes, i went to the united game at the emirates last season and this season.

Last season Ozil was pants. lazy and held the ball far too long whilst sanchez was always trying to track back and help in defending. Always looking to get into space and in general showed more effort then lazy Ozil at the same damm fixture.

When you watch on TV, the camera followes the ball but live in the actual game u see a lot more.

Eeverytime i see ozil play he barely moves 10 yard with or without the ball. He is proper lazy and doesnt help in defending at all and loses the ball very often.

He is average at best and arsenal dont/wont miss him as he would have made little difference in the past few matches

See above for poster who posted actual stats for Ozil which you didn't provide, rendering your argument completely bs and filled with gaps/lack of facts

See above again , his passing is not lackluster. Then you've decided to compare him with Sanchez a completely different player than Ozil by assessing his pressing defensive capabilities. Yes I agree Ozil is generally exposed defensively on the left wing but other than that I've no problem with him in the CAM role

What gives you the basis that I'm an armchair fan, that's extremely ignorant(just like your analysis on ozil), I'm not going to start rattling off the games I've attended this year just to please you but I've been to a fair few (don't know why I personally have to justify this, just you're ignorant comment boiled my blood)

Yes Ozil is completely different than Sanchez, I personally love Sanchez' passion determination and drive. Barely moves 10 yards? .. give me a break man, well done you go to the stadium another pat on the back for that, I'm guessing you're the same one who leaves ten minutes early to catch the tube or maybe a hot dog at half time

Thanks for letting me know the camera followed the ball, I thought we still had player cam (more excellent analysis from you the fan who goes to all the games, why don't you go for a pundit job in Sky)

jonneymendoza

Hyzepher wrote: »

If anything this year should be highlighting the incredible job done at Arsenal to consistently secure CL each year - whether you agree with that as a yard stick is irrelevant.

Spurs, Liverpool, Everton, Man Utd and even City this year have shown inconsistency, bad play, regression etc and some of these teams have had nothing more than on-pitch issues.

In the last while Arsenal have had cruel injuries, debt, new stadium, players leaving, no real investment, increasing fan pressure etc and yet still seem to get a decent season-long result.

I would say that all but 3 teams in the PL would die for our recent history.

Excuses mate.
Look at Klopp. On a far lesser budget, lots more injuries and still has won the title twice and been to a CL final in the past 5 years. whats Wenger done? one cup lol.

Now Klopp is a very definition of a good manager, Wenger is not. he is doing poor with the budget he has.

He fails to address the most simple straight forward problems at arsenal for the past 10 years. That does not equal to a great manager at all.

Klopp has bought and made more world class players for peanuts compared to wenger so all this talk about the financial burden is complete rubbish and excuse to hide the poor dealings wenger has done.

You dont need a Khadira to fix your DCM. There are plenty of other options.

Wenger use to be good at spotting talent. The invincibles is a prime example.

The wenger of old is long gone. This new Wenger of ours is average at best and plenty of top managers like klopp ancholloti, morinho, guadiola etc would do a lot better with THIS club.

byrneg28

jonneymendoza wrote: »

You pull those stats from where?

Stats dont tell the complete story. how many of those passes were easy passes vs risk passes?

Look at how many chances he has created, not many from your made up stats.

Does your stats show his poor positioning? his lack of cover in defence? The amount of distance he covers on the pitch? His overal decision making?

Nope it doesnt.

And you compare him to two average players ie wilshere and mata lol

You said in your orginal argument

1. he is average, stats and actual performance backed this up.



Okay pick a player you deem above average in the CAM role and we'll compare him

Ken Shamrock

byrneg28 wrote: »

See above for poster who posted actual stats for Ozil which you didn't provide, rendering your argument completely bs and filled with gaps/lack of facts

See above again , his passing is not lackluster. Then you've decided to compare him with Sanchez a completely different player than Ozil by assessing his pressing defensive capabilities. Yes I agree Ozil is generally exposed defensively on the left wing but other than that I've no problem with him in the CAM role

What gives you the basis that I'm an armchair fan, that's extremely ignorant(just like your analysis on ozil), I'm not going to start rattling off the games I've attended this year just to please you but I've been to a fair few (don't know why I personally have to justify this, just you're ignorant comment boiled my blood)

Yes Ozil is completely different than Sanchez, I personally love Sanchez' passion determination and drive. Barely moves 10 yards? .. give me a break man, well done you go to the stadium another pat on the back for that, I'm guessing you're the same one who leaves ten minutes early to catch the tube or maybe a hot dog at half time

Thanks for letting me know the camera followed the ball, I thought we still had player cam (more excellent analysis from you the fan who goes to all the games, why don't you go for a pundit job in Sky)

Nothing wrong with that surely :eek:

jonneymendoza

byrneg28 wrote: »

See above for poster who posted actual stats for Ozil which you didn't provide, rendering your argument completely bs and filled with gaps/lack of facts

See above again , his passing is not lackluster. Then you've decided to compare him with Sanchez a completely different player than Ozil by assessing his pressing defensive capabilities. Yes I agree Ozil is generally exposed defensively on the left wing but other than that I've no problem with him in the CAM role

What gives you the basis that I'm an armchair fan, that's extremely ignorant(just like your analysis on ozil), I'm not going to start rattling off the games I've attended this year just to please you but I've been to a fair few (don't know why I personally have to justify this, just you're ignorant comment boiled my blood)

Yes Ozil is completely different than Sanchez, I personally love Sanchez' passion determination and drive. Barely moves 10 yards? .. give me a break man, well done you go to the stadium another pat on the back for that, I'm guessing you're the same one who leaves ten minutes early to catch the tube or maybe a hot dog at half time

Thanks for letting me know the camera followed the ball, I thought we still had player cam (more excellent analysis from you the fan who goes to all the games, why don't you go for a pundit job in Sky)

Stats pulled out of where though and as said doest paint the total picture.

cant believe some folks still al believe in stats to determine if a player is world class or not.

Your accusing me of leaving the stadium early? dont get me started with u who probably never been to the emirates. if i was to roll in your baited response id get warned here so i wont go any further then that.

jonneymendoza

Bob.Carcass wrote: »

Nothing wrong with that surely :eek:

exactly. guy has lost the plot

jonneymendoza

byrneg28 wrote: »

You said in your orginal argument

1. he is average, stats and actual performance backed this up.



Okay pick a player you deem above average in the CAM role and we'll compare him

for example fabregas, xavi and iniesta just to name a few are heads and shoulders above Ozil(one of those players we could have captured for a cheaper price then ozil as well)

Ken Shamrock

jonneymendoza wrote: »

exactly. guy has lost the plot

IN fairness, most of what he says is true, Ozil isn't a bad passer, he's the opposite, but i agree with the lazy, bad attitude, poor form stuff. You wouldn't know Ozil was Ozil at Arsenal. I'd call him a world class player everyday when he was with Madrid, it's been hard to see that here.

The stats do tell a lie or two because they don't factor in a lot of the game. The guy can move the ball around and play players in, but when his passing is off he offers absolutely nothing to this team and is a liability.

I think you are both taking it a bit too personal now tbh.

Mr Blobby

jonneymendoza wrote: »

1. he is average, stats and actual performance backed this up. he hasnt set the world alight at arsenal

jonneymendoza wrote: »

You pull those stats from where?

Stats dont tell the complete story. how many of those passes were easy passes vs risk passes?

:pac:
Not gonna even bother.

jonneymendoza

Bob.Carcass wrote: »

IN fairness, most of what he says is true, Ozil isn't a bad passer, he's the opposite, but i agree with the lazy, bad attitude, poor form stuff. You wouldn't know Ozil was Ozil at Arsenal. I'd call him a world class player everyday when he was with Madrid, it's been hard to see that here.

The stats do tell a lie or two because they don't factor in a lot of the game. The guy can move the ball around and play players in, but when his passing is off he offers absolutely nothing to this team and is a liability.

I think you are both taking it a bit too personal now tbh.

Well said. Ozil is not world class at arsenal. far from it

Irish Aris

so now we are saying that Özil is not a good player???

jonneymendoza

Mr Blobby wrote: »

:pac:
Not gonna even bother.

again how many were easy passes vs risk passes?

where does teh stats deny how lazy he is etc?

Mr Blobby

Irish Aris wrote: »

so now we are saying that Özil is not a good player???

No no.. He's "average" now :pac:

jonneymendoza

Irish Aris wrote: »

so now we are saying that Özil is not a good player???

na his world class mate. Best CAM in the league :D:pac::pac::pac:

Ken Shamrock

Mr Blobby wrote: »

No no.. He's "average" now :pac:

jonneymendoza wrote: »

na his world class mate. Best CAM in the league :D:pac::pac::pac:

He's somewhere in between right now

yipeeeee

Ozil has had more bad games than good.

We have to be honest he has been a dissapointment, started off great but has dropped off badly.

Give me cesc any day.

jonneymendoza

Bob.Carcass wrote: »

He's somewhere in between right now

Somewhere inbetween would be someone like Hazard imo and his played better than Ozil which puts Ozil down as average.

Irish Aris

jonneymendoza wrote: »

na his world class mate. Best CAM in the league :D:pac::pac::pac:

Johnny, saying he is not playing to his full potential is a fair point, and I won't argue it.

Saying he is not world class, well, I just can't take that view seriously.

Maybe, we should ask why his form hasn't been consistent in this year and a half - considering (or not considering) his injuries.

Mr Blobby

jonneymendoza wrote: »

again how many were easy passes vs risk passes?

where does teh stats deny how lazy he is etc?

Its impossible to gauge which are easy/risk passes and you know that.

You said that the stats showed his passing was bad yet you showed zero proof to back you our claim. Statistically speaking his passing stats ain't to far being David Silva.

Mr Blobby

jonneymendoza wrote: »

Somewhere inbetween would be someone like Hazard imo and his played better than Ozil which puts Ozil down as average.

Why are you comparing a winger to a number 9?

Royale with Cheese

Judging him by what he's done in an Arsenal shirt then he's definitely not world class. Not by a long shot. Blindly stating he'll definitely come good is also fairly irritating. Some players peak very early in their careers and never get back to the way they were, I'm thinking Torres + Fowler here. The same arguments were made about them and they never got it back. Ozil could well stay at this level for the rest of his career.

Also I should say I don't buy the crap that Ozil was amazing when he first turned up at Arsenal. He did alright and then got worse, he never set the world alight.

Ken Shamrock

jonneymendoza wrote: »

Somewhere inbetween would be someone like Hazard imo and his played better than Ozil which puts Ozil down as average.

Dude Hazard is world class and also plays on the wing. Average is like Steve Sidwell, N'zonzi etc World class is Gotze,Kroos,Cesc etc. Ozil is better than Steve Sidwell...

He has the class Ozil but he's being misused by Wenger, he's finding the premier league tough physically and he relies too much on a fantastic midfield to make up for his defensive short comings which we don't have.

Problem is, I'm sick of excuses, whether it's wenger ozil welbeck whatever it's just not good enough

jonneymendoza

Bob.Carcass wrote: »

Dude Hazard is world class and also plays on the wing. Average is like Steve Sidwell, N'zonzi etc World class is Gotze,Kroos,Cesc etc. Ozil is better than Steve Sidwell...

He has the class Ozil but he's being misused by Wenger, he's finding the premier league tough physically and he relies too much on a fantastic midfield to make up for his defensive short comings which we don't have.

Problem is, I'm sick of excuses, whether it's wenger ozil welbeck whatever it's just not good enough

Hazard is not that far from being world class but not quite.

So if Ozil is being used wrongly then whos fault is that then?

Guess who? Wenger. Yet we come to another reason why wenger should be sacked.

You just pointed out another flaw with wenger

Ken Shamrock

jonneymendoza wrote: »

Hazard is not that far from being world class but not quite.

So if Ozil is being used wrongly then whos fault is that then?

Guess who? Wenger. Yet we come to another reason why wenger should be sacked.

You just pointed out another flaw with wenger

If Hazard isn't world class you've got some high standards.

I know? I want Wenger out...

greendom

greendom wrote: »

relatively speaking

What does that mean though? Wasn't there 3 titles in 7 years before the move? How is that "relatively speaking" the same? Something to do with other teams improving?

Irish Aris

jonneymendoza wrote: »

Hazard is not that far from being world class but not quite.

So if Ozil is being used wrongly then whos fault is that then?

Guess who? Wenger. Yet we come to another reason why wenger should be sacked.

You just pointed out another flaw with wenger

thank you, I rest my case.
Name me any other manager that would
1.bring in Özil (and the attributes he brings to the game), when he doesn't have anyone of the sort, and wouldn't, initially, build the team around him and
2.wouldn't have a plan b in case things didn't work (and sorry, playing Özil on the wing is not a good plan b, more of a desperate plan b).

Paj

Ozil’s been largely disappointing. But I feel the manager putting him out left hasn’t done him any favours. I hope he improves.

greendom

Best news in a long long time

Laurent is back in first team training !!!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2848682/Arsenal-defender-Laurent-Koscielny-training-Gunners-prepare-face-Borussia-Dortmund.html

Paj

Looking like a baws!

Ken Shamrock

greendom wrote: »

Best news in a long long time

Laurent is back in first team training !!!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2848682/Arsenal-defender-Laurent-Koscielny-training-Gunners-prepare-face-Borussia-Dortmund.html

Daily mail, hopefully true. Although if it is it looks like Welbz and Theo could be out too??

That would leave Wenger lining up something like this:

---

Martinez

---

---

Chambers--Mertesacker--Monreal--Gibbs

---

---

Arteta

---

Ramsey

---

---

---

Cazorla

---

---

Ox

---

Sanogo

---

Very tired Sanchez


Not good

greendom

Bob.Carcass wrote: »

Daily mail, hopefully true. Although if it is it looks like Welbz and Theo could be out too??

That would leave Wenger lining up something like this:

---

Martinez

---

---

Chambers--Mertesacker--Monreal--Gibbs

---

---

Arteta

---

Ramsey

---

---

---

Cazorla

---

---

Ox

---

Sanogo

---

Very tired Sanchez


Not good

If Sanchez really is wrecked (although hopefully he's 100% back after his trip to South America) then Podolski and or Campbell should feature.

Ken Shamrock

greendom wrote: »

If Sanchez really is wrecked (although hopefully he's 100% back after his trip to South America) then Podolski and or Campbell should feature.

Podolski would make it even worse. Campbell would be interesting tho, guy deserves a run.

Ken Shamrock

Kosc confirmed as in the squad for tomorrow, have to wonder about fitness tho

Ken Shamrock

Welbeck in, wilshere, sczc and walcott out

Boss: "It's an important game for us and we have a good dynamic in the team which gives us a good chance against Dortmund

I'd love to know what dynamic he is talking about

Wenger: "I've shown I can take criticism in the 18 years I have been here. Everyone has the right to an opinion. We must show solidarity"

Boss: "There's a very strong bond inside the team and inside the club. We will have a very strong season"

Wenger: "I believe in what I do and I believe in my players, their quality and their spirit"

Boss on injuries: "When you play 50 or 60 games a season you go through difficult spells

.@aaronramsey: "Injuries give opportunities to other players and we have a squad that's full of quality"

.@aaronramsey: "We're not too concerned about what's been said about us. We had a good game against Manchester United"

lol

Soups123

Bob.Carcass wrote: »

Welbeck in, wilshere, sczc and walcott out


Wenger: "I've shown I can take criticism in the 18 years I have been here. Everyone has the right to an opinion. We must show solidarity"

I dont think he has taken a lot of criticism from the Arsenal fans, I think its at the highest it has ever been now

Ken Shamrock

.@aaronramsey: "Against United was the first time I've felt physically sharp. I still believe in my qualities and I know I can show them"

Boss on Klopp: "You need the same qualities to manage in England that you do in Germany"

Wenger Knows Best ‏@wengerknowsbest 2m minutes ago
Welbeck in, Welbeck out. In out in out, shake it all about. Little bit hamstring niggle but you pick him anyway, that's what it's all about.

Soups123

Bob.Carcass wrote: »

.@aaronramsey: "We're not too concerned about what's been said about us. We had a good game against Manchester United"

lol

Statements like this annoy me, not concerned what been said by the fans? Really?

If he thinks we had a good game against United he is lacking, yes we played well in parts and created some chances but we ultimately fell apart for the 100th time

Mickeroo

Soups123 wrote: »

Statements like this annoy me, not concerned what been said by the fans? Really?

Standard enough for professional footballers or any athlete, particularly in the case of negative backlash I would have thought, though pretty dumb to say it out loud alright. He also doesn't mention the fans to be fair, probably talking more about the media than anything else.

Soups123

Mickeroo wrote: »

Standard enough for professional footballers or any athlete, particularly in the case of negative backlash I would have thought, though pretty dumb to say it out loud alright. He also doesn't mention the fans to be fair, probably talking more about the media than anything else.

Thats it really just avoid it or say the usual 'we understand the fans being disapointed so are we' type stuff

Maybe it was directed at the media but infairness a lot of them are reflective of fans comments.

I like Ramsey he's a good guy maybe just needs a bit more media awareness

Ken Shamrock

Wenger Knows Best ‏@wengerknowsbest 2m minutes ago
I accept everybody has a right to an opinion. And everybody must accept I have a right to ignore theirs

artvandelay48

greendom wrote: »

Best news in a long long time

Laurent is back in first team training !!!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2848682/Arsenal-defender-Laurent-Koscielny-training-Gunners-prepare-face-Borussia-Dortmund.html

I missed the "t" and nearly had a heart attack thinking Lauren had just come out of retirement!

tayto lover

Bob.Carcass wrote: »

Kosc confirmed as in the squad for tomorrow, have to wonder about fitness tho

If Kos is not fit then it is not right to play him tomorrow night.

This decision should only be made on a football basis. He should not be rushed back in order that we progress in the CL and earn more money as a result. We will probably be knocked out in the next round anyway.
The decision to play Kos should be made for football reasons only.

tayto lover

Soups123 wrote: »

I dont think he has taken a lot of criticism from the Arsenal fans, I think its at the highest it has ever been now

And about time too. This will annoy him and maybe wake him up. He has become far too comfortable wallowing in his mediocrity.