Arsenal Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014/15

cson

greendom wrote: »

love the guy but at this stage of his career he wouldn't get game time. I wouldn't mind him in a coaching capacity though. Imagine he could do great things with Welbeck for sure.

You'd notice the impact he's had on Walcott who's a much much more accomplished and clinical finisher than he was say 4/5 years ago.

Billy86

Anyone else see some eejit called Anthony Kastrinakis (I think he writes for The Sun?) on SSN today saying "when when Wenger came to Arsenal make no mistake about it, they were as big as Man United, and all he has done is drip fed them mediocrity for the last 10 years"?

How the hell do these people have jobs? Don't get me wrong, Arsenal were obviously a big enough club and whatnot with a strong history, maybe arguably the biggest after Liverpool and Man Utd domestically, but they had won 3 league titles in 45 years (2 in 25) and in the seasons before Wenger had finished: 5th, 12th, 4th, and 10th. It just boggles the mind...

Good to see Welbeck continuing to do well, but I still can't understand why we sold him to you guys.

Ardennes1944

If this interview with L'Equip has any truth to it I'd love him back as a coach.

DenMan

After 120 games it's Clichy's first ever goal for Man City. 0-3

Jaafa

Billy86 wrote: »

Anyone else see some eejit called Anthony Kastrinakis (I think he writes for The Sun?) on SSN today saying "when when Wenger came to Arsenal make no mistake about it, they were as big as Man United, and all he has done is drip fed them mediocrity for the last 10 years"?

How the hell do these people have jobs? Don't get me wrong, Arsenal were obviously a big enough club and whatnot with a strong history, maybe arguably the biggest after Liverpool and Man Utd domestically, but they had won 3 league titles in 45 years (2 in 25) and in the seasons before Wenger had finished: 5th, 12th, 4th, and 10th. It just boggles the mind...

Good to see Welbeck continuing to do well, but I still can't understand why we sold him to you guys.

And see this is exactly why some of the hate directed towards Wenger just isn't justified. Before Wenger Arsenal were not a massive club. Historically we've never dominated the domestic scene (like Man united have done), never-mind Europe. That changed when Wenger came, almost instant success and a level of consistency never before seen in Arsenal football club. It's skewed fans expectations to the point where we think we're beneath getting in the top four ever year, when in fact even that was unheard of before Wenger.

Don't get me wrong I perfectly understand the criticisms of Wenger and I do believe his is time is coming to an end in the next year or 2 but that said, I believe us fans have been deluding ourself a lot as to what our expectations should be. Delusions brought about by almost entirely by Wenger's success in the first place!

byrneg28

Anyone reckon Martinez will/should keep his place?

fulmer1984

byrneg28 wrote: »

Anyone reckon Martinez will/should keep his place?

Yes why not, Szczesny needs time on the bench in my opinion. Martinez hasn't done anything wrong. Plus hes not a kid, 22 or 23 so why not put him in for a few games

yipeeeee

Billy86 wrote: »

Anyone else see some eejit called Anthony Kastrinakis (I think he writes for The Sun?) on SSN today saying "when when Wenger came to Arsenal make no mistake about it, they were as big as Man United, and all he has done is drip fed them mediocrity for the last 10 years"?

How the hell do these people have jobs? Don't get me wrong, Arsenal were obviously a big enough club and whatnot with a strong history, maybe arguably the biggest after Liverpool and Man Utd domestically, but they had won 3 league titles in 45 years (2 in 25) and in the seasons before Wenger had finished: 5th, 12th, 4th, and 10th. It just boggles the mind...

Good to see Welbeck continuing to do well, but I still can't understand why we sold him to you guys.

I think he said when Wenger came arsenal and united had 10 league titles each??


He was coming out with some waffle but some of it was making sense, especially the part about been the highest ticket prices in Europe, and it sometimes seems the club accepts 4th each season.

But Wenger deserves to see out this contract.

tayto lover

gosplan wrote: »

Yeah agree with that. Also the formation hasn't worked but as soon as we came back

BANG!

Lead CF out
New RB out
Best CB out
Best AMF and other CB massively out of form and then the former gets injured
Best DMF option and probably the most important overall player to our dominance of the weaker teams (perhaps along with Kos) constantly in and out of the team.

You can't just let Wenger away with his errors, I get that.

But if we're saying 'oh Jose would have sorted this out, it's all about buying a player', then take Matic, Fabregas, Costa, Terry away from Chelsea and see how they do.

I also think people don't have a clue about the type of DMF we need. People think 'oh, that guy's a tough tackler, he'd do - FFS WENGER, WHY HAVEN'T YOU BOUGHT HIM'.

But it's clear that Arteta might be THE most important player over the last few years. So you can't just get a tackler, you need a Xabi Alonso ... or you need to bed in people like Sanchez, score more goals and then maybe replace Arteta.

The DMF thing is a narrow sighted myth for simplistic pundits IMO.

Not signing a CB was. Far greater crime.

How is Arteta the DM we need?
He is slow and too prone to being caught in the opponents half when they break. It is common to see him jogging back into our half when the damage has been done. He is a make-shift DM in my book and has just been a gap filler.
We need much better than that.

extra gravy

Hopefully Schneiderlin will be out for Wednesday's game, Southampton were much weaker without him when he went off today.

gosplan

tayto lover wrote: »

How is Arteta the DM we need?
He is slow and too prone to being caught in the opponents half when they break. It is common to see him jogging back into our half when the damage has been done. He is a make-shift DM in my book and has just been a gap filler.
We need much better than that.

Find the stats with and without and you'll see what I mean.

Yes, we need a better shield.

But we also need that rediculous amount of passing he does at 95%+ accuracy.

Or we could get better going forward. Last season we were pants.

This isn't that controversial tbh. The stats back it all up.

Basically if we had Gilberto instead of Arteta last season, it wouldn't have been all that great. Yes, we would have been solid in particular games but it would have cost us in others.

An out and out DMF is a luxury that players like Henry, Pires and Bergkamp allow you to have.

Soups123

gosplan wrote: »

Find the stats with and without and you'll see what I mean.

Yes, we need a better shield.

But we also need that rediculous amount of passing he does at 95%+ accuracy.

Or we could get better going forward. Last season we were pants.

This isn't that controversial tbh. The stats back it all up.

Looking at stats in the current squad and options favour him but we need better than those options. Arteta is simply no where near the level needed for a DM

tayto lover

gosplan wrote: »

Find the stats with and without and you'll see what I mean.

Yes, we need a better shield.

But we also need that rediculous amount of passing he does at 95%+ accuracy.

Or we could get better going forward. Last season we were pants.

This isn't that controversial tbh. The stats back it all up.

But it's the telling passes that count. The passes that set up goals.
Mert has about 98% successful pass-rate but they're all sideways in defence or back to the keeper. Does that make him irreplaceable? Don't think so.
I actually like Arteta and he has a great work-rate. He has done wonders at times for us but we need and can now afford better.

gosplan

tayto lover wrote: »

But it's the telling passes that count. The passes that set up goals.
Mert has about 98% successful pass-rate but they're all sideways in defence or back to the keeper. Does that make him irreplaceable? Don't think so.
I actually like Arteta and he has a great work-rate. He has done wonders at times for us but we need and can now afford better.

I'm really not disagreeing.

All I'm saying is ...

If we're not that great going forward, which we haven't been for a few years, Arteta's passing game is hugely important to us in terms of controlling the tempo and moving the opposition around looking for an opening.

This is why Wenger's stuck with him and why we always look really **** and disjointed without him in the team.

This however obviously doesn't mean that Arteta is amazing and crucial to every team. There are players who can do what he does AND provide better cover. And there are teams who don't need a DMF contributing to attacks.

But right now it's the easy thing to beat Wenger with and any young physical DMF will be seen as the person who would make the difference between us finishing fourth and challenging.

I mean the year Liverpool got too many draws and lost the league to Utd, they had Mascherano and Alonso there - literally as good as you'll get.

I think that Wenger didn't push to just go and sign 'best option' DMF is because there's a downside to playing without Arteta, we need that possession he guarantees in midfield and the final third.

If Sanchez, Ozil and Walcott click, we probably won't and then it's time to get the specialist DMF.

It just pissese off when everyone calls it such a black and white issue whereas the truth is that in terms of average points with and without, Arteta might be THE most important player. And that's a big sample size too.

But of course the solution is to hire the next massively physical flash in the pan from abroad. Christ they'd be telling us Scott Parket would win us the league if he was a bit younger.

It is obvious to anyone watching the club for a while that Arteta is not up to it as a defensive shield for the back four, but also that we really need him for the rest of his game. So it's not a simple fix.

tayto lover

gosplan wrote: »

I'm really not disagreeing.

All I'm saying is ...

If we're not that great going forward, which we haven't been for a few years, Arteta's passing game is hugely important to us in terms of controlling the tempo and moving the opposition around looking for an opening.

This is why Wenger's stuck with him and why we always look really **** and disjointed without him in the team.

This however obviously doesn't mean that Arteta is amazing and crucial to every team. There are players who can do what he does AND provide better cover. And there are teams who don't need a DMF contributing to attacks.

But right now it's the easy thing to beat Wenger with and any young physical DMF will be seen as the person who would make the difference between us finishing fourth and challenging.

I mean the year Liverpool got too many draws and lost the league to Utd, they had Mascherano and Alonso there - literally as good as you'll get.

I think that Wenger didn't push to just go and sign 'best option' DMF is because there's a downside to playing without Arteta, we need that possession he guarantees in midfield and the final third.

If Sanchez, Ozil and Walcott click, we probably won't and then it's time to get the specialist DMF.

It just pissese off when everyone calls it such a black and white issue whereas the truth is that in terms of average points with and without, Arteta might be THE most important player. And that's a big sample size too.

But of course the solution is to hire the next massively physical flash in the pan from abroad. Christ they'd be telling us Scott Parket would win us the league if he was a bit younger.

It is obvious to anyone watching the club for a while that Arteta is not up to it as a defensive shield for the back four, but also that we really need him for the rest of his game. So it's not a simple fix.

Well he's the best at Arsenal at the moment. We should be strengthening and keeping Arteta for certain games.
Mourinho seems to have sorted that position out at Chelsea by buying Matic.
City bought Fernandinho and Fernando too when they thought they needed to improve there.

enfant terrible

gosplan wrote: »

I'm really not disagreeing.

All I'm saying is ...

If we're not that great going forward, which we haven't been for a few years, Arteta's passing game is hugely important to us in terms of controlling the tempo and moving the opposition around looking for an opening.

This is why Wenger's stuck with him and why we always look really **** and disjointed without him in the team.

This however obviously doesn't mean that Arteta is amazing and crucial to every team. There are players who can do what he does AND provide better cover. And there are teams who don't need a DMF contributing to attacks.

But right now it's the easy thing to beat Wenger with and any young physical DMF will be seen as the person who would make the difference between us finishing fourth and challenging.

I mean the year Liverpool got too many draws and lost the league to Utd, they had Mascherano and Alonso there - literally as good as you'll get.

I think that Wenger didn't push to just go and sign 'best option' DMF is because there's a downside to playing without Arteta, we need that possession he guarantees in midfield and the final third.

If Sanchez, Ozil and Walcott click, we probably won't and then it's time to get the specialist DMF.

It just pissese off when everyone calls it such a black and white issue whereas the truth is that in terms of average points with and without, Arteta might be THE most important player. And that's a big sample size too.

But of course the solution is to hire the next massively physical flash in the pan from abroad. Christ they'd be telling us Scott Parket would win us the league if he was a bit younger.

It is obvious to anyone watching the club for a while that Arteta is not up to it as a defensive shield for the back four, but also that we really need him for the rest of his game. So it's not a simple fix.

I would prefer the defensive solidity a DMF would give us.

I would still be confident our attacking threat would not be blunted with a DMF with players like Sanchez, Ozil, Walcott, Ramsey, Ox, Welbeck, Giroud, Carzola trying to find an opening.

I actually think it would give more confidence to our attacking players knowing they may only need to score one goal to win the game, not three or four.

emergingstar

enfant terrible wrote: »

I would prefer the defensive solidity a DMF would give us.

I would still be confident our attacking threat would not be blunted with a DMF with players like Sanchez, Ozil, Walcott, Ramsey, Ox, Welbeck, Giroud, Carzola trying to find an opening.

I actually think it would give more confidence to our attacking players knowing they may only need to score one goal to win the game, not three or four.

I don't agree

We're not ready for a speailst DM Yet we need an upgrade on arteta someone who can do his job better than him

We don't need a big no nonsense DM but who can't pass the ball

Arteta sets everything up for us, sets the tempo and controls and retains the ball. We just need to upgrade on him

Mr Blobby

emergingstar wrote: »

I don't agree

We're not ready for a speailst DM Yet we need an upgrade on arteta someone who can do his job better than him

We don't need a big no nonsense DM but who can't pass the ball

Arteta sets everything up for us, sets the tempo and controls and retains the ball. We just need to upgrade on him

Yep i agree.
We've always had holding players that can pass. Its actually our DM's most need trait with our system.

For me a perfect player would be Javi Martinez... But being realistic i'd go for Schneiderlin.

gosplan

tayto lover wrote: »

Well he's the best at Arsenal at the moment. We should be strengthening and keeping Arteta for certain games.
Mourinho seems to have sorted that position out at Chelsea by buying Matic.
City bought Fernandinho and Fernando too when they thought they needed to improve there.

Yes but Matic only works because

a: he's really fantastic, like really good
b: hazard, fabregas, costa

Like i said, we bed in Ozil, Sanchez, Walcott and the rest around them and then we need to worry less about other players contributing to attacking moves.

Sanchez is interestingly the first player we've had in ages who doesn't really play a possession game. He's happy enough to give the ball away because he tries high risk things and when they work out we score.

Maybe a sign of things to come.

I just think though that when you step back and look at it, it's undeniable that the fulcrum of our style and game is Arteta. Not saying he's perfect or irreplaceable but that's just the way it is right now.

When you keep that in mind, then taking him out is not the simplistic 'we'd basically get more points against the big teams' equation that people make it out to be. It's actually surgery on the way we play, and that's not easy.

If le boss took a look at the market and said 'no, don't like the look of what's there, I'm waiting till the attack is sorted', then that makes sense.

Though Arteta's injuries are now proving him wrong.

The other thing you have to consider is that Mourinho's amazing career makes it really easy for him to buy players - 'yes because I'm guaranteed league titles'.

Quazzie

Jaafa wrote: »

And see this is exactly why some of the hate directed towards Wenger just isn't justified. Before Wenger Arsenal were not a massive club. Historically we've never dominated the domestic scene (like Man united have done), never-mind Europe. That changed when Wenger came, almost instant success and a level of consistency never before seen in Arsenal football club. It's skewed fans expectations to the point where we think we're beneath getting in the top four ever year, when in fact even that was unheard of before Wenger.

Don't get me wrong I perfectly understand the criticisms of Wenger and I do believe his is time is coming to an end in the next year or 2 but that said, I believe us fans have been deluding ourself a lot as to what our expectations should be. Delusions brought about by almost entirely by Wenger's success in the first place!

LINK

Jaafa

Quazzie wrote: »

LINK

3 trophies in 9 years while impressive is not dominating.

Quazzie

Jaafa wrote: »

3 trophies in 9 years while impressive is not dominating.

They won 5 league titles and 2 FA cups in the thirties with a team made by Chapman. If you are going to make statements as if they are fact at least do a quick google to make sure it's correct.

yipeeeee

Jaafa wrote: »

3 trophies in 9 years while impressive is not dominating.

Same amount of league titles as united, arsenal were always a big club.

Jaafa

Quazzie wrote: »

They won 5 league titles and 2 FA cups in the thirties with a team made by Chapman. If you are going to make statements as if they are fact at least do a quick google to make sure it's correct.

Alright fair enough I'll concede the point. Still we're talking about 80 years ago. I think my original point still stands.

gosplan

I'd love to see the finances pre Wenger.

The thing that's changed about football during his tenure is that now you pretty much finish in line with your spend, give or take.

If you discount City and Chelsea, only because they had huge cash injections, how many clubs has Wenger managed to overtake in spending power?

That's probably a good measure of his legacy.

Though if we had gone with PHW's idea of just getting billionaires to throw money at the club it would have achieved same. Doubt we'd have had too much if a problem with it too.

efb

@OnlyArsenaI: Arsene Wenger - "I started to manage in 1983. If I am completely useless tactically, I am a genius who can hide it very well."

jonneymendoza

well someone deserves sacking whether its wenger or the board not allowing wenger to fix the most obvious problems in the squad

yipeeeee

James McCarthy??

Notvtue first time I've heard this rumour, seems pretty injury prone.

wonga77

yipeeeee wrote: »

James McCarthy??

Notvtue first time I've heard this rumour, seems pretty injury prone.

No thanks. a cb and a proper world class holding midfielder is what are required at the moment. Anything other than that is not a priority

purplepanda

Jaafa wrote: »

Before Wenger Arsenal were not a massive club. Historically we've never dominated the domestic scene (like Man united have done), never-mind Europe. That changed when Wenger came, almost instant success and a level of consistency never before seen in Arsenal football club. It's skewed fans expectations to the point where we think we're beneath getting in the top four ever year, when in fact even that was unheard of before Wenger.

Wenger arrived at Arsenal when most of the players had already won League titles & a European trophy & domestic cups. Maybe I'm imagining that Arsenal had the second most league titles when Wenger arrived, maybe we didn't win the double with Charlie George. Maybe we're not the 3rd most successful club in England despite winning our first trophy in 1930 after giving our main rivals a 25 year start!

Arsenal have always been in the top three clubs since the 1930's, anyone who says Wenger has made us a massive club doesn't know any of the clubs history. Wenger can't even win a European trophy & yet made Arsenal a massive club, what a delusional concept! :pac:

Irish Aris

purplepanda wrote: »

Wenger arrived at Arsenal when most of the players had already won League titles & a European trophy & domestic cups. Maybe I'm imagining that Arsenal had the second most league titles when Wenger arrived, maybe we didn't win the double with Charlie George. Maybe we're not the 3rd most successful club in England despite winning our first trophy in 1930 after giving our main rivals a 25 year start!

Arsenal have always been in the top three clubs since the 1930's, anyone who says Wenger has made us a massive club doesn't know any of the clubs history. Wenger can't even win a European trophy & yet made Arsenal a massive club, what a delusional concept! :pac:

really? why don't you enlighten us so?
Let's start with the basics? How many league title have we won in the (say) 30 years before Wenger?

Quazzie

Irish Aris wrote: »

really? why don't you enlighten us so?
Let's start with the basics? How many league title have we won in the (say) 30 years before Wenger?

I didn't realised the club was only established in 1966.


Also the answer is 3, which coincidentally is the same as Wenger will manage if he stays to manage us for 30 years.

symbolic

Quazzie wrote: »

I didn't realised the club was only established in 1966.


Also the answer is 3, which coincidentally is the same as Wenger will manage if he stays to manage us for 30 years.

So he has kept them a big club.. Excellent.

greendom

Quazzie wrote: »

I didn't realised the club was only established in 1966.


Also the answer is 3, which coincidentally is the same as Wenger will manage if he stays to manage us for 30 years.

Till 2026? I like the guy but even I wouldn't be in favour of that !

byrneg28

Arsenal would have had won 10 league titles and 6 FA Cups before Wenger, with Wenger they've increased that to 13 league titles and 11 FA Cups..

Yes it's true we were a big club before Wenger, but I think what should be noted here is that he allowed us to remain a big club while everyone around us deteriorated
i.e. Aston Villa or Everton..

Everton had 9 league titles and 5 FA Cups both one less than Arsenal before Wenger joined and guess what, they still have. Everton haven't won a cup in 20 years.

Wenger allowed us to move forward into a modern era of football both aesthetically, technically, health-wise (through nutrition) and of course financially.

To say Wenger hasn't made us a BIGGER club is preposterous, we won 3 league titles and one season unbeaten constantly battling with one of the greatest teams of all time.

Now it's been ten years since then and we're consistent, we're attracting big players, we're increasing our name, we're still doing the good things right. Not like Everton/Villa who were dominant in the 80s but where are they now?

Yes our club wasn't established in 1966, but I'm happy our barron spell was 9 years and not 20/30 like Arsenal have experienced in the past. But we haven't fallen, we are continuing to add strength in depth and continuing to fight to be the best club in the world and Wenger recognised how to do that. Our stadium and increased revenue, sustainable income will allow us to be one of the top sides in modern football and we will win trophies again. Rather than sit in mid-table obscurity like Villa/Everton.

He hasn't won a European Cup yes, but he's brought us closer than any other manager in Arsenal has dreamed of. I'm not saying close is first place but if you feel George Graham's feat of winning a European Cup Winner's Cup is more rewarding than a Champions League final, it's a bit of an outlandish idea.

Quazzie

byrneg28 wrote: »

Arsenal would have had won 10 league titles and 6 FA Cups before Wenger, with Wenger they've increased that to 13 league titles and 11 FA Cups..

Yes it's true we were a big club before Wenger, but I think what should be noted here is that he allowed us to remain a big club while everyone around us deteriorated
i.e. Aston Villa or Everton..

Everton had 9 league titles and 5 FA Cups both one less than Arsenal before Wenger joined and guess what, they still have. Everton haven't won a cup in 20 years.

Wenger allowed us to move forward into a modern era of football both aesthetically, technically, health-wise (through nutrition) and of course financially.

To say Wenger hasn't made us a BIGGER club is preposterous, we won 3 league titles and one season unbeaten constantly battling with one of the greatest teams of all time.

Now it's been ten years since then and we're consistent, we're attracting big players, we're increasing our name, we're still doing the good things right. Not like Everton/Villa who were dominant in the 80s but where are they now?

Yes our club wasn't established in 1966, but I'm happy our barron spell was 9 years and not 20/30 like Arsenal have experienced in the past. But we haven't fallen, we are continuing to add strength in depth and continuing to fight to be the best club in the world and Wenger recognised how to do that. Our stadium and increased revenue, sustainable income will allow us to be one of the top sides in modern football and we will win trophies again. Rather than sit in mid-table obscurity like Villa/Everton.

He hasn't won a European Cup yes, but he's brought us closer than any other manager in Arsenal has dreamed of. I'm not saying close is first place but if you feel George Graham's feat of winning a European Cup Winner's Cup is more rewarding than a Champions League final, it's a bit of an outlandish idea.

Inaccurate in your "facts" again.

I don't think anyone is denying Wenger has been good for the club, but he has also deteriorated in recent years, and in the opinion of many people he is past in his best. Bringing us to highs is no good if you settle into mediocrity after it, and allow the club to become stagnant. Wenger can get some great form out of the club, but it isn't in him anymore to get us over the line. He has been in survival mode for so long that he no longer knows to make the step up again. While he was surviving the world has moved on.

byrneg28

Quazzie wrote: »

Inaccurate in your "facts" again.

I don't think anyone is denying Wenger has been good for the club, but he has also deteriorated in recent years, and in the opinion of many people he is past in his best. Bringing us to highs is no good if you settle into mediocrity after it, and allow the club to become stagnant. Wenger can get some great form out of the club, but it isn't in him anymore to get us over the line. He has been in survival mode for so long that he no longer knows to make the step up again. While he was surviving the world has moved on.

Inaccurate? Please elaborate

Again? When was I inaccurate before?

Ken Shamrock

byrneg28 wrote: »

Inaccurate? Please elaborate

Because it's 19 years :pac:

emergingstar

Seen this tweeted made me laugh

Imagine thinking going the season unbeaten was a bigger achievement than getting the Djourou, Eboue, Denilson, Bendtner team to 4th. Mental.

byrneg28

Quazzie wrote: »

Inaccurate in your "facts" again.

I don't think anyone is denying Wenger has been good for the club, but he has also deteriorated in recent years, and in the opinion of many people he is past in his best. Bringing us to highs is no good if you settle into mediocrity after it, and allow the club to become stagnant. Wenger can get some great form out of the club, but it isn't in him anymore to get us over the line. He has been in survival mode for so long that he no longer knows to make the step up again. While he was surviving the world has moved on.

Usually when you're making an argument you stick to it. The argument was 'Wenger hasn't made us a massive club' , which I've elaborated on and now you've replied to how Wenger has deteriorated in recent years. So what are we actually discussing here?

Quazzie wrote: »

Inaccurate in your "facts" again.

I don't think anyone is denying Wenger has been good for the club, but he has also deteriorated in recent years, and in the opinion of many people he is past in his best.

A post in which you thanked only moments ago.

purplepanda wrote: »

Arsenal have always been in the top three clubs since the 1930's, anyone who says Wenger has made us a massive club doesn't know any of the clubs history. Wenger can't even win a European trophy & yet made Arsenal a massive club, what a delusional concept! :pac:

Ken Shamrock

emergingstar wrote: »

Seen this tweeted made me laugh

Imagine thinking going the season unbeaten was a bigger achievement than getting the Djourou, Eboue, Denilson, Bendtner team to 4th. Mental.

I'm glad this is a joke. Those players are prime examples of why we went from 1st to 4th and have stayed there ever since.

Quazzie

byrneg28 wrote: »

Usually when you're making an argument you stick to it. The argument was 'Wenger hasn't made us a massive club' , which I've elaborated on and now you've replied to how Wenger has deteriorated in recent years. So what are we actually discussing here?




A post in which you thanked only moments ago.

He has been good for the club because for a short period he helped us maintain the achieve some of the success we have achieved in the past. He hasn't done anything the club hasn't done before in the past, although some seem to think the club started when sky started showing games.

He has been good for the club, bur he is past being good. I don't believe he will ever win another title at the club so I believe he should step down and let some other manager help us make the step up.

I thanked that post because it pointed out that we are a club steeped in history, which Wenger has added to greatly, but he no longer is.

Jaafa

purplepanda wrote: »

Wenger arrived at Arsenal when most of the players had already won League titles & a European trophy & domestic cups. Maybe I'm imagining that Arsenal had the second most league titles when Wenger arrived, maybe we didn't win the double with Charlie George. Maybe we're not the 3rd most successful club in England despite winning our first trophy in 1930 after giving our main rivals a 25 year start!

Arsenal have always been in the top three clubs since the 1930's, anyone who says Wenger has made us a massive club doesn't know any of the clubs history. Wenger can't even win a European trophy & yet made Arsenal a massive club, what a delusional concept! :pac:

I never said he made us a massive club, I said he brought almost instant success and a level of consistency never seen before. This picture sums up what I'm talking about. Look at what came before, I really don't see the argument here.

Ken Shamrock

Jaafa wrote: »

I never said he made us a massive club, I said he brought almost instant success and a level of consistency never seen before. This picture sums up what I'm talking about. Look at what came before, I really don't see the argument here.

League position isn't the only measure of success, however, can't say he hasn't been consistent.

greendom

When you take into account that the stadium was built in the second part of his tenure, that is an amazing record that he doesn't get enough credit for

Ken Shamrock

greendom wrote: »

When you take into account that the stadium was built in the second part of his tenure, that is an amazing record that he doesn't get enough credit for

Yes he does, you lot are constantly going on about that stadium

yipeeeee

greendom wrote: »

When you take into account that the stadium was built in the second part of his tenure, that is an amazing record that he doesn't get enough credit for

Indeed when will we start reaping the benefit and stop experiencing the burden of building a new stadium?

greendom

yipeeeee wrote: »

Indeed when will we start reaping the benefit and stop experiencing the burden of building a new stadium?

The club's future is secure now and it will happen, When is the word and not if, thanks in a large degree, to Arsene.

greendom

Bob.Carcass wrote: »

Yes he does, you lot are constantly going on about that stadium

certain groups then (that don't give him enough credit)

Ken Shamrock

yipeeeee wrote: »

Indeed when will we start reaping the benefit and stop experiencing the burden of building a new stadium?

greendom wrote: »

The club's future is secure now and it will happen, When is the word and not if, thanks in a large degree, to Arsene.