Lets make people on welfare live on vouchers!

Reading through some various posts on the forum and a strong group of people want to have a system where people on the dole survive on vouchers only!

In my opinion a voucher system simply wouldn't work.

social welfare is paid for all different groups of people, including;

the dole,
pensions,
sickness & disability,
Part Time workers,
Low paid workers,
Carers,
Jobsbridge,
FAS,
TUS,
Gateway,
Students.
Child Benefit.

Do you want vouchers to all these people or are you picking on those on the dole?

Lets imagine that some people advocating a voucher system are actually implying that those people on the dole should be in receipt of such a scheme.

The amount of dole 1 person receives is €188 per week.

A average household would normally have the following to pay for,

food,
electricity,
Gas/oil,
Water,
Insurance,
Car Insurance,
Rent/mortgage,
Medical costs,
Clothing,
Car Maintenance,
House Maintenance,
Telephone,
Internet,
Petrol,
TV Licence.

What do those advocating a voucher system expect to provide with the voucher for the above costs? Would the voucher allowance have to be increased to cover the daily cost of living?

Note I haven't even included any funds for socialising, or celebrations such as birthday/Christmas. This is just basic survival.

So please go breakdown the figures and get back to us!

Links234

:rolleyes:

ThisRegard

Do you still get a butter voucher with dole ?

ThisRegard

ThisRegard wrote: »

Do you still get a butter voucher with dole ?

Not in the last decade.

BoJack Horseman

ThisRegard wrote: »

Do you still get a butter voucher with dole ?

Sadly no.

20Cent

Weren't we supposed to get free cheese?
Did that happen?

efb

I think Poole that post on message fora during working hours should be sacked!

Turtyturd

How big would these vouchers be, and would they be sheltered?

whiskeyman

Free cheese is the solution to everything!!

food - eat cheese!
electricity - burn cheese, generate heat!
Gas/oil - see above!
Water - melt cheese... bathe in cheese!
Insurance - Pay with cheese!
Car Insurance - as above!
Rent/mortgage - live in a cheese house!
Medical costs - get a cheese transplant! Cheese is good for you!
Clothing - wear cheese!
Car Maintenance - make a car from cheese!
House Maintenance - build a cheese extention to your cheese house!
Telephone - Buy an iCheese phone!
Internet - Surf the Cheesenet
Petrol - Fill 'er up with Cheese!
TV Licence - Watch Cheese!

o1s1n

Can my vouchers be money shaped and work like money?

Kermit.de.frog

My opinion is that if you are receiving any payment (excluding pension) from the state i.e taxpayers then I don't think you should be allowed spend that money on smokes and alcohol.

Vouchers are the best way of doing that and could sort a lot of social issues too at the same time.

caolfx

So, rations, basically? Eh, no!

o1s1n

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

My opinion is that if you are receiving any payment (excluding pension) from the state i.e taxpayers then I don't think you should be allowed spend that money on smokes and alcohol.

Vouchers are the best way of doing that and could sort a lot of social issues too at the same time.

What if you've been a PAYE worker for many years and have recently been let go? Are you not entitled to something back after all that tax you've paid?

Or do you assume everyone on the dole is just a scrounger who has never worked?

BoJack Horseman

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

My opinion is that if you are receiving any payment (excluding pension) from the state i.e taxpayers then I don't think you should be allowed spend that money on smokes and alcohol.

Vouchers are the best way of doing that and could sort a lot of social issues too at the same time.

However if you make a system where s/w recipients can only purchase tobacco & booze, the government gets more back in duties.

Beano

ThisRegard wrote: »

Do you still get a butter voucher with dole ?

they give out "I cant believe its not butter" vouchers these days.

Kermit.de.frog

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

My opinion is that if you are receiving any payment (excluding pension) from the state i.e taxpayers then I don't think you should be allowed spend that money on smokes and alcohol.

Vouchers are the best way of doing that and could sort a lot of social issues too at the same time.

Look at the OP, look at general expenses. Now tell me how a voucher system would work?

Also if you want to stop people smoking you would have to provide them all with measures to kick the habit, more money.

And what about the lost revenue from smoking, the state does very well.

Beano

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

My opinion is that if you are receiving any payment (excluding pension) from the state i.e taxpayers then I don't think you should be allowed spend that money on smokes and alcohol.

Vouchers are the best way of doing that and could sort a lot of social issues too at the same time.

vouchers for what exactly? vouchers for the esb? vouchers for Dunnes? vouchers for the bus? or perhaps vouchers that work for all of these things?

Donkey Oaty

One solution would be make all welfare payments in Green Shield Stamps, which cannot be used to buy cigarettes or alcohol - or anything else, for that matter.

3rdDegree

Would it not nd kind of humiliating for people though?

caolfx

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

My opinion is that if you are receiving any payment (excluding pension) from the state i.e taxpayers then I don't think you should be allowed spend that money on smokes and alcohol.

Hang on. I had to spend a few months on the scratcher earlier this year. Are you telling me after years and years of paying taxes, I'm not entitled to have a beer or any kind of social life while I'm looking for a job.

Yes, there are some wasters out there, but one rule for everyone under the assumption anyone on the dole is a scrounger is ridiculous.

I had bills to pay, a car to put petrol in (getting to and from interviews - not every job is a bus journey away) etc...

What you need your money for will vary.

God forbid I go out for a drink on a weekend of a friend's birthday or something while I'm looking for a job.

People need to be able to live, not simply survive under rule.

kneemos

We should make them wear a symbol to signify their doleness.
Make them sew it on themselves and perhaps herd them into one section of town.

Kermit.de.frog

o1s1n wrote: »

What if you've been a PAYE worker for many years and have recently been let go? Are you not entitled to something back after all that tax you've paid?

Or do you assume everyone on the dole is just a scrounger who has never worked?

I don't see why anyone should be allowed purchase alcohol with a dole payment.

The dole is supposed to be a safety net not a piss up allowance.

3rdDegree

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

One solution would be make all welfare payments in Green Shield Stamps, which cannot be used to buy cigarettes or alcohol - or anything else, for that matter.

I'm pretty sure you can use them to buy glasses and cheap digital watches. Apart from that, you are right - you can't buy anything else with them.

Will Irish Water except vouchers?

Beano

3rdDegree wrote: »

Would it not nd kind of humiliating for people though?

thats probably one of the objectives

3rdDegree

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I don't see why anyone should be allowed purchase alcohol with a dole payment.

True. That is what street begging is for.

Call Me Jimmy

3rdDegree wrote: »

Would it not nd kind of humiliating for people though?

pipe down! this existential angst won't get rid of itself!

BoJack Horseman

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Will Irish Water except vouchers?

You can ring them & ask.

o1s1n

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I don't see why anyone should be allowed purchase alcohol with a dole payment.

The dole is supposed to be a safety net not a piss up allowance.

Ah right there, I didn't realize booze was the only thing people spent money on these days.

So you can pay for all those things in the OP with vouchers now? Excellent.

Donkey Oaty

3rdDegree wrote: »

I'm pretty sure you can use them to buy glasses and cheap digital watches. Apart from that, you are right - you can't buy anything else with them.

You'd need a time machine to transport you back to before 1991 when they were discontinued though.

However, I've just checked on Ebay, and they do have a (very small) value among collectors. :eek:

KomradeBishop

Find a friend who want to buy goods that your vouchers are restricted to, trade them the vouchers for an equivalent amount money, vouchers fail to restrict what anyone purchases.[/thread]

Kermit.de.frog

SuperOito wrote: »

People need to be able to live, not simply survive under rule.

If you are on the dole then you have to accept you are at the lowest wrung and workers are supporting you. The living standard should match that fact. It should be both stick and carrot in my opinion. The welfare system in Ireland is too much carrot and enough stick to get more people off their arse and out to get a job.

Just because a minority have chosen life on the dole as an ok standard of living for them does not mean that they should not be challenged as to what they are up to and why workers should go on supporting them.

suicide_circus

People on the dole are not one homogeneous group. They generally break down into three groups.

A. Short termers. People who lost their job and will take up any employment asap in order to get off the dole.

B. Medium termers. People who want to get off the dole but only if they find a job which they feel is worthy of them.

C. Longtermers. Career dolists. Have never worked.

Category C should certainly not be receiving free cash on a weekly basis.

o1s1n

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Just because a minority have chosen life on the dole as an ok standard of living for them does not mean that they should not be challenged as to what they are up to and why workers should go on supporting them.

Ah, so you do assume everyone on the dole is a no work scrounger.

So as I said, what about people who have been contributing toward the tax system for years on end and they get laid off?

The money they're getting has been contributed by themselves.

Turtyturd

KomradeBishop wrote: »

Find a friend who want to buy goods that your vouchers are restricted to, trade them the vouchers for an equivalent amount money, vouchers fail to restrict what anyone purchases.[/thread]

Or shops begin taking them in return for smokes and drink, as used to happen with butter vouchers.

Kermit.de.frog

o1s1n wrote: »

Ah, so you do assume everyone on the dole is a no work scrounger.

I didn't say that. I said the minority. I am well aware of the different circumstances people find themselves in.

But I am sick of this diversion from the wasters that are on the dole and have been for years, sometimes decades.

45,000 on the dole still and throughout the boom. These people should have to account for themselves since it's our taxes keeping them above water.

Tail Docker

Beano wrote: »

vouchers for what exactly? vouchers for the esb? vouchers for Dunnes? vouchers for the bus? or perhaps vouchers that work for all of these things?

They could give them universal vouchers that work for buying anything, sort of like "paper money" if you like. A catchy name might be "Euros" - to show our commitment to the EU?

o1s1n

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I didn't say that. I said the minority. I am well aware of the different circumstances people find themselves in.

But I am sick of this diversion from the wasters that are on the dole and have been for years, sometimes decades.

45,000 on the dole still and throughout the boom. These people should have to account for themselves since it's our taxes keeping them above water.

I totally agree regarding the scroungers, but you cannot implement a new system which will penalize those who have worked all of their life.

How about a system that just targets 'dole lifers' instead?

rubadub

Deleted User wrote: »

Reading through some various posts on the forum and a strong group of people want to have a system where people on the dole survive on vouchers only!

I don't recall seeing any of this strong group, have you any links to them saying a 100% voucher system for every single item.

Vouchers for food would not only stop it being spent on drugs (mainly alcohol & nicotine), but also combat squandering and needless purchasing of overpriced stuff from rip off shops. Remember this...

Stheno wrote: »

The Irish Times have been doing their usual pre Budget articles, but I was shocked by todays article.

A single mother of four claims she cannot feed her kids healthy food as it is too expensive with 3 chicken fillets costing €7.50 and two baskets of strawberries €5 and it's easier to "It’s cheaper to buy a packet of 10 chocolate bars for a euro than give them some healthy snacks."

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/the-kids-are-going-to-starve-then-they-have-health-problems-1.1544207

I was shocked as I can buy two whole chickens which would feed a family of five for 2-3 days as main meals for that price, and if you shop in Lidl/Aldi (to which this woman has access, there is a large Lidl not far from her, there is plenty of good value, low cost fruit/veg. My local butcher does ten fillets for ten euro and three pounds of mince for 7.50

Is this an indication that investment in basic budgeting, and cooking skills may be worthwhile?

“Just say if there were cuts and if they said €20 or €30 goes off my income, that’s €20 or €30 off my shopping, so the kids are going to starve, so then they have all their health problems and I’ll be stressed out.”

The kids are going to starve because she cannot afford to feed them €2.50 chicken fillets.

it would piss many hardworking people off to see their taxes being squandered on buying food they could not afford themselves.

HellboundIRL

What is it with some people and their obsession with welfare/dole? Same thread once or twice a week (sometimes more), same posters yapping on about their taxes and scroungers and some chest beating thrown in for good measure on how they're a proper law abiding citizen.

Does it not get a bit old? The threads are always popular but it's always the same old drivel.

Kermit.de.frog

o1s1n wrote: »

I totally agree regarding the scroungers, but you cannot implement a new system which will penalize those who have worked all of their life.

How about a system that just targets 'dole lifers' instead?

Yes. Something should be done. Set a cut off at 6 years or introduce vouchers at 5 years on welfare.

I don't think we should continue breeding a welfare culture that is generational.

Most people use welfare to try and get work or education which is what it is meant for.

jamesbere

Let them eat cake

Iwasfrozen

A voucher system that can't be spent on alcohol, cigarettes and gambling would be ideal and would help many of the problems latent in our society, especially in Dublin.

The vouchers could also only be spent in the state which would help curb money drifting across the border in northern areas.

Grand Moff Tarkin

There should really be an age setting for anyone starting a thread.

Beano

rubadub wrote: »

I don't recall seeing any of this strong group, have you any links to them saying a 100% voucher system for every single item.

Vouchers for food would not only stop it being spent on drugs (mainly alcohol & nicotine), but also combat squandering and needless purchasing of overpriced stuff from rip off shops. Remember this...





The kids are going to starve because she cannot afford to feed them €2.50 chicken fillets.

it would piss many hardworking people off to see their taxes being squandered on buying food they could not afford themselves.

how would vouchers stop people spending them on overpriced food? Or are you suggesting that they could only be spent on healthy food?

Kermit.de.frog

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Yes. Something should be done. Set a cut off at 6 years or introduce vouchers at 5 years on welfare.

I don't think we should continue breeding a welfare culture that is generational.

Most people use welfare to try and get work or education which is what it is meant for.

Good stuff, what do we do with them then?

Should we round them up into some sort of gas camps or do you want work houses back?

I see you want to stop them breeding, what do you suggest? Chop of the tackles from birth?

Beano

Grand Moff Tarkin wrote: »

There should really be an age setting for anyone starting a thread.

There is. it doesnt seem to be making much of a difference.

Iwasfrozen

HellboundIRL wrote: »

What is it with some people and their obsession with welfare/dole? Same thread once or twice a week (sometimes more), same posters yapping on about their taxes and scroungers and some chest beating thrown in for good measure on how they're a proper law abiding citizen.

Does it not get a bit old? The threads are always popular but it's always the same old drivel.

Seems to me a government that rips the dole to shreds would be very popular with the people.

KungPao

We could pay them in Tesco Club coupons?

€188 is the max for a single adult.

One could go to the hatch, sign on, then collect the following coupons:

€100 for food
€50 for clothing/non-food/medicine
€18 for Alcohol and tobacco


And a tenner credited to a special "Non-worker" Leap Card with a star or something on it, so the card is easy to identify.

Seems fair enough.

Beano

Deleted User wrote: »

Good stuff, what do we do with them then?

Should we round them up into some sort of gas camps or do you want work houses back?

I see you want to stop them breeding, what do you suggest? Chop of the tackles from birth?

mandatory hysterectomies for the women.

Grand Moff Tarkin

Grand Moff Tarkin wrote: »

There should really be an age setting for anyone starting a thread.

Strange that not one person advocating a voucher system has yet given any figure to the breakdown of the cost of survival be it on the dole or the voucher scheme.