Lets make people on welfare live on vouchers!

02-10-2014 4:36pm

KungPao wrote: »

We could pay them in Tesco Club coupons?

€188 is the max for a single adult.

One could go to the hatch, sign on, then collect the following coupons:

€100 for food
€50 for clothing/non-food/medicine
€18 for Alcohol and tobacco

And a tenner credited to a special "Non-worker" Leap Card with a star or something on it, so the card is easy to identify.

Seems fair enough.

What about all the other stuff, you know, ESB, Water ?

Iwasfrozen · 02-10-2014 4:36pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Strange that not one person advocating a voucher system has yet given any figure to the breakdown of the cost of survival be it on the dole or the voucher scheme.

The voucher would be 188 the same amount as the dole.

Beano · 02-10-2014 4:37pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Strange that not one person advocating a voucher system has yet given any figure to the breakdown of the cost of survival be it on the dole or the voucher scheme.

dont go clouding things by introducing facts. that never helps.

Beano · 02-10-2014 4:38pm

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

The voucher would be 188 the same amount as the dole.

you have forgotten the costs involved in producing and processing all these vouchers.

Iwasfrozen · 02-10-2014 4:39pm

Beano wrote: »

you have forgotten the costs involved in producing and processing all these vouchers.

No I haven't.

KungPao · 02-10-2014 4:39pm

Deleted User wrote: »

What about all the other stuff, you know, ESB, Water ?

Paid directly by the social. They have an allowance obviously, and if they exceed the limits, the power/water shuts off.

But in the interest of fairness, the SW would supply a batch of candles and buckets (for rain water collection), to all customers.

Beano · 02-10-2014 4:40pm

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

No I haven't.

well you havent mentioned them.

Philo Beddoe · 02-10-2014 4:40pm

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

My opinion is that if you are receiving any payment (excluding pension) from the state i.e taxpayers then I don't think you should be allowed spend that money on smokes and alcohol.

Vouchers are the best way of doing that and could sort a lot of social issues too at the same time.

One of the things we're guilty of at an institutional level in this country is short-term thinking. I think a better system than what you've suggested could be put in place with a bit of investment which will cost money in the short-term but bring benefits down the road.

Let's install facial recognition technology in every retail outlet which sells tobacco or alcohol. Everybody who receives social welfare will have their photo taken when being put through central processing. Then if they attempt to buy either alcohol or tobacco they will be recognised. Red lights will start flashing, a loud siren will sound and a big metal cage will drop to the floor, trapping the scrounger inside.

They can then spend a few hours in the cage being publically shamed and thinking about what they've done. The length of time in the cage could increase with each offense. Obviously you'll have to feed them while they're in there. Perhaps some symbolical carrots, to go with the metaphorical stick which is the cage? Now I know what you're thinking, eventually all these carrots are going to cost us a lot of money...maybe have a three-strikes and you're out system. Poisoned carrots for serial offenders?

Donkey Oaty · 02-10-2014 4:41pm

Beano wrote: »

you have forgotten the costs involved in producing and processing all these vouchers.

It would be substantial.

To get €188 in Tesco vouchers, the Irish Government would have to spend €18,800 in Tesco on stuff, and they'd have to wait up to three months to receive the vouchers before passing them on to the dole person.

Iwasfrozen · 02-10-2014 4:42pm

Beano wrote: »

well you havent mentioned them.

That doesn't mean I've forgotten them.

It would require an initial investment but as people are encouraged to leave the dole we'd be better off in the long term.

Beano · 02-10-2014 4:43pm

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

That doesn't mean I've forgotten them.

It would require an initial investment but as people are encouraged to leave the dole we'd be better off in the long term.

encouraged to leave the dole to do what exactly? are they all suddenly going to find jobs?

Grand Moff Tarkin · 02-10-2014 4:44pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Strange that not one person advocating a voucher system has yet given any figure to the breakdown of the cost of survival be it on the dole or the voucher scheme.

Having been on both sides of the fence I have to say as ideas go this is a none runner unless you are going out of your way to cause hassle and resentment amongst people.

Beano · 02-10-2014 4:45pm

Philo Beddoe wrote: »

One of the things we're guilty of at an institutional level in this country is short-term thinking. I think a better system than what you've suggested could be put in place with a bit of investment which will cost money in the short-term but bring benefits down the road.

Let's install facial recognition technology in every retail outlet which sells tobacco or alcohol. Everybody who receives social welfare will have their photo taken when being put through central processing. Then if they attempt to buy either alcohol or tobacco they will be recognised. Red lights will start flashing, a loud siren will sound and a big metal cage will drop to the floor, trapping the scrounger inside.

They can then spend a few hours in the cage being publically shamed and thinking about what they've done. The length of time in the cage could increase with each offense. Obviously you'll have to feed them while they're in there. Perhaps some symbolical carrots, to go with the metaphorical stick which is the cage? Now I know what you're thinking, eventually all these carrots are going to cost us a lot of money...maybe have a three-strikes and you're out system. Poisoned carrots for serial offenders?

an excellent idea. think of the massive boost to the metal cage industry.

02-10-2014 4:45pm

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

That doesn't mean I've forgotten them.

It would require an initial investment but as people are encouraged to leave the dole we'd be better off in the long term.

food,
electricity,
Gas/oil,
Water,
Insurance,
Car Insurance,
Rent/mortgage,
Medical costs,
Clothing,
Car Maintenance,
House Maintenance,
Telephone,
Internet,
Petrol,
TV Licence.

All with a voucher system?

Iwasfrozen · 02-10-2014 4:46pm

Beano wrote: »

encouraged to leave the dole to do what exactly? are they all suddenly going to find jobs?

There is a substantial population on the dole (mostly graduates) who will not take any available job as it is "beneath" them. This scheme is aimed at them.

As more people get into employment it will increase aggregate demand which will increase the number of available jobs. You just need a kick to get the system working.

02-10-2014 4:46pm

Grand Moff Tarkin wrote: »

Having been on both sides of the fence I have to say as ideas go this is a none runner unless you are going out of your way to cause hassle and resentment amongst people.

Im totally against the system, and I know it would work, im simply asking for those advocating such a system to actually do the maths.

Beano · 02-10-2014 4:47pm

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

There is a substantial population on the dole (mostly graduates) who will not take any available job as it is "beneath" them. This scheme is aimed at them.

As more people get into employment it will increase aggregate demand which will increase the number of available jobs. You just need a kick to get the system working.

how substantial is this population exactly?

Grand Moff Tarkin · 02-10-2014 4:47pm

Not many people posting here seem to have any idea of how things are done in the real world.

Yer Aul One · 02-10-2014 4:47pm

HellboundIRL wrote: »

What is it with some people and their obsession with welfare/dole? Same thread once or twice a week (sometimes more), same posters yapping on about their taxes and scroungers and some chest beating thrown in for good measure on how they're a proper law abiding citizen.

Does it not get a bit old? The threads are always popular but it's always the same old drivel.

Why are you reading them if you find them so boring?

WinnyThePoo · 02-10-2014 4:48pm

Grand Moff Tarkin wrote: »

Not many people posting here seem to have any idea of how things are done in the real world.

Mostly I.T graduates i'd say.

Grand Moff Tarkin · 02-10-2014 4:52pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Im totally against the system, and I know it would work, im simply asking for those advocating such a system to actually do the maths.

Have you spent time on the dole yourself with a wife and a few children to support?
Not everyone on the dole wants to be there but for the time I had to use it at least I was seeing hard money which could be spent on what my family needed at the time. Not everything can be covered with vouchers and vouchers are a sure way to destroy any hope left in some man or woman out on the dole looking for a job.

ted1 · 02-10-2014 4:53pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

the dole
food,
electricity,
Gas/oil,
Water, Allowance for upto 400,000
Insurance, For what ?
Car Insurance, Public transport ?
Rent/mortgage, rent allowance?
Medical costs, Medical card?
Clothing,
Car Maintenance, Public transport?
House Maintenance, Landlord/ council?
Telephone,
Internet,
Petrol, Public transport?
TV Licence.

See above

Wompa1 · 02-10-2014 4:53pm

Grand Moff Tarkin wrote: »

Not many people posting here seem to have any idea of how things are done in the real world.

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

Mostly I.T graduates i'd say.

In fairness...Ireland is unlike almost the entire rest of the world so.....

Knine · 02-10-2014 4:58pm

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

My opinion is that if you are receiving any payment (excluding pension) from the state i.e taxpayers then I don't think you should be allowed spend that money on smokes and alcohol.

Vouchers are the best way of doing that and could sort a lot of social issues too at the same time.

Really? So full time Carers who save the state a fortune & care 24/7 should receive Vouchers? Really?

Anybody could end up as a Carer or being cared for themselves.

02-10-2014 5:02pm

Wrong thread!

Roquentin · 02-10-2014 5:10pm

you could maybe give a 50 euro voucher and then 130 into your hand. id do that being on the dole. ive found being on the dole i dont need as much food as if i were working (although in the christmas time you need more meals)

not everyone who is on the dole wants to be on the dole, its just circumstances dictate it.

kneemos · 02-10-2014 5:11pm

Are vouchers people who say "aw yeah he's a good fellow"?

02-10-2014 5:12pm

Roquentin wrote: »

you could maybe give a 50 euro voucher and then 130 into your hand. id do that being on the dole. ive found being on the dole i dont need as much food as if i were working (although in the christmas time you need more meals)

not everyone who is on the dole wants to be on the dole, its just circumstances dictate it.

Whats the 50 euro for?

Yer Aul One · 02-10-2014 5:13pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Whats the 50 euro for?

Brazzer vouchers

Roquentin · 02-10-2014 5:16pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Whats the 50 euro for?

there is no such thing as a free lunch

Iwasfrozen · 02-10-2014 5:26pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

food,
electricity,
Gas/oil,
Water,
Insurance,
Car Insurance,
Rent/mortgage,
Medical costs,
Clothing,
Car Maintenance,
House Maintenance,
Telephone,
Internet,
Petrol,
TV Licence.

All with a voucher system?

Yes. Vouchers would be legal tender in Ireland. With the caveat that they cannot be spent on alcohol, cigarettes, gambling or abroad.

Yer Aul One · 02-10-2014 5:35pm

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Yes. Vouchers would be legal tender in Ireland. With the caveat that they cannot be spent on alcohol, cigarettes, gambling or abroad.

A "One for All" voucher, for want of a better term

Donkey Oaty · 02-10-2014 5:40pm

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

With the caveat that they cannot be spent on alcohol, cigarettes, gambling or abroad.

These "Puritan vouchers" really should also exclude sex toys, cream buns, comfortable shoes and any type of coffee with an Italian-sounding name.

Iwasfrozen · 02-10-2014 5:46pm

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

These "Puritan vouchers" really should also exclude sex toys, cream buns, comfortable shoes and any type of coffee with an Italian-sounding name.

Why? Alcohol, cigerettes and gambling cause social problems in the addicted. Pushing them further into poverty, depression and setting a bad example to their children.

Sex toys and shoes are harmless...

In Lonesome Dove · 02-10-2014 5:50pm

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

There is a substantial population on the dole (mostly graduates) who will not take any available job as it is "beneath" them. This scheme is aimed at them.

As more people get into employment it will increase aggregate demand which will increase the number of available jobs. You just need a kick to get the system working.

Many graduates who find themselves unemployed, are either being forced into internships or taking them up themselves. You want these people to work a 40 hour week for vouchers and food stamps.

02-10-2014 5:50pm

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Yes. Vouchers would be legal tender in Ireland. With the caveat that they cannot be spent on alcohol, cigarettes, gambling or abroad.

Can they buy mouth wash? I hear mouth wash contains alcohol.

caolfx · 02-10-2014 5:50pm

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Why? Alcohol, cigerettes and gambling cause social problems in the addicted. Pushing them further into poverty, depression and setting a bad example to their children.

Sex toys and shoes are harmless...

So punish everyone for that reason?

What if they're sex addicts though? Put their picture up in sex shops to prevent the shops from selling to them?

Yer Aul One · 02-10-2014 5:50pm

Bring back the tax on children's shoes!!

Wompa1 · 02-10-2014 5:55pm

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Yes. Vouchers would be legal tender in Ireland. With the caveat that they cannot be spent on alcohol, cigarettes, gambling or abroad.

Doing that in the US already. People started trading their vouchers for cash...

They've not changed to a credit card..handy because they can just top up the same card

Slot Machine · 02-10-2014 5:56pm

Yer Aul One wrote: »

A "One for All" voucher, for want of a better term

They said "alcohol, cigarettes, gambling or abroad" not "nothing whatsoever". :pac:

In Lonesome Dove · 02-10-2014 6:08pm

Wompa1 wrote: »

Doing that in the US already. People started trading their vouchers for cash...

They've not changed to a credit card..handy because they can just top up the same card

I was reading an American forum some months back and their system doesn't even allow to buy toilet paper and fanny pads and tampons.

SMJSF · 02-10-2014 6:11pm

no thanks. I've most of my 188 going on rent because they don't think I'm entitled to my full allowance :-/ and nearly another 50% goes on bills, and the small amount of â‚¬10 goes on food for 7 days...

Yer Aul One · 02-10-2014 6:15pm

SMJSF wrote: »

no thanks. I've most of my 188 going on rent because they don't think I'm entitled to my full allowance :-/ and nearly another 50% goes on bills, and the small amount of â‚¬10 goes on food for 7 days...

This seems completely plausible

wiseoldelf34 · 02-10-2014 6:16pm

SMJSF wrote: »

no thanks. I've most of my 188 going on rent because they don't think I'm entitled to my full allowance :-/ and nearly another 50% goes on bills, and the small amount of â‚¬10 goes on food for 7 days...[/QUyou got
go get a job then and stop getting handouts for lying in the bed till noon

Gatling · 02-10-2014 6:17pm

SMJSF wrote: »

no thanks. I've most of my 188 going on rent because they don't think I'm entitled to my full allowance :-/ and nearly another 50% goes on bills, and the small amount of â‚¬10 goes on food for 7 days...

188 at 20 though you only got €100 pw till 26

SMJSF · 02-10-2014 6:23pm

care leaver....

rubadub · 02-10-2014 6:30pm

Beano wrote: »

how would vouchers stop people spending them on overpriced food?

There could be approved supermarkets and approved products within them and a system put in place to make sure the supermarket are not taking the piss. Or agreements with manufacturers. When I was a student I signed up to be a taster for knorr and got specific vouchers for specific items, a SW voucher could have been for a range of items to give people a bit more choice. Or even open up government controlled distribution centres.

If they were to bring back say butter vouchers it might be valid for the own brand or kerrygold, not some fancy organic stuff costing 3 times the price. I suppose you could top up the voucher with your own money if you wanted, but it might make the likes of that stupid woman think for a minute and say "hmm, this allowance is for €1 for a single chicken fillet, so thats presumably the going rate, but the ones I buy are €2.50 each, perhaps I am paying over the odds".

Her kids should be taken out of her care if they are truly starving since she does not have the cop on not to be squandering money on €2.50 chicken fillets.

Lets make people on welfare live on vouchers!

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