LOI week 30 & FAI cup semi-final matches.

gimmick

An away Derry fan is an over familiar nuisance I find

CSF

NIMAN wrote: »

I agree that some away fans are targeted when they visit Derry, and that's an unfortunate consequence of the stadium location (in my opinion). There are a fair few toerags in that area who love nothing more than creating bother. If the stadium was in a more neutral location it would not happen.

Same thing happened in our annual Linfield Setanta game, always caused by people who would have no interest in the game itself. Its a social problem brought to a football occasion, and its a very hard thing for a club to have any influence at all on social problems. Its a matter of law and order, and thats the police's responsibility in the end.

I don't think Derry City FC have toerags/fans who travel to away games and look for bother, unlike some other clubs in Ireland. Any Derry away fan is a genuine fan, not a hooligan.

Look I agree with most of what you're saying, but in the end, the fact remains, The Brandywell isn't a particularly safe place to visit for some clubs. I mean with Derry being accomodated in the league due to the problems they had north, they least of all need to be a place that is unsafe for clubs to visit, whether their fault or no.

That said, I don't think The Brandywell is sufficiently unsafe at the moment to be having that kind of talk, but it isn't something to be dismissed as merely a police issue.

Darkglasses

Can only speak for my own experiences, but the Brandywell was well up there as one of the most welcoming places the Youths have gone to. Club officials and fans were fantastic to us when we travelled up. Even met Stephen Kenny before the match

I'm not trying to slag off anyone's club, but I really couldn't say the same for most Dublin venues we've been to. Just trying to say that YMMV.

dreamers75

Derry is odd, I go up and do be in the home end with my pats jersey on and never a single issue. Our away support get terrorized by the Bounc....Stewards and then the locals when they leave.

Agree with CSF of all clubs they should at least put some effort into ensuring away fans are somewhat safe.

NIMAN

I would agree that our stewards are not what they should be. Too many feel they are like the Secret Service, acting big men all the time.

But I would say if you are sober and not acting the maggot, then it would be hard for them to give you any grief. I saw a confrontation the other night at the semi, when a steward refused entry to a Rovers fan, who was being verbal and coming out with the usual drunk talk about "don't you lay a hand on me" nonsense. He could hardly stand up straight he was that p1ssed. This is the sort of stuff I would imagine they love, bit of a chance to flex their muscles. But if they are given no grief then they can't return any?

A few of them did have a reputation though. Even to our fans.

As for the quote "The Brandywell isn't a particularly safe place to visit for some clubs", maybe these clubs might ask why its them and not the Youths etc who attract bother? Why do certain Derry scumbags appear when Rovers, or Bohs visit yet don't for Bray or Drogheda.

CSF

NIMAN wrote: »

As for the quote "The Brandywell isn't a particularly safe place to visit for some clubs", maybe these clubs might ask why its them and not the Youths etc who attract bother? Why do certain Derry scumbags appear when Rovers, or Bohs visit yet don't for Bray or Drogheda.

Considering these lads are fairly indiscriminate with who they throw stuff at (they're not just hooligans looking for another hooligan 'firm'), I'd suggest it is more to do with the size of the clubs visiting (and hence the perceived significance) than Wexford, Drogheda or Bray, who are largely clubs who've rarely had notions about themselves.

I know it happens with the 4 Dublin clubs, and I wouldn't be surprised to hear it being the same for Cork and Dundalk.

I can largely visit Dalymount, Tallaght, Dundalk, Inchicore not expecting trouble (these things may happen as isolated incidents but I don't go expecting it). I go to Derry and Limerick expecting to encounter trouble on the way out.

doncarlos

CSF wrote: »

The Brandywell isn't a particularly safe place to visit for some clubs.

It's no less safe than Tallaght. Dundalk fans have been attacked a number of times there. It's the only ground in Ireland that I never feel entirely safe visiting.

CSF

Darkglasses wrote: »

Can only speak for my own experiences, but the Brandywell was well up there as one of the most welcoming places the Youths have gone to. Club officials and fans were fantastic to us when we travelled up. Even met Stephen Kenny before the match

I'm not trying to slag off anyone's club, but I really couldn't say the same for most Dublin venues we've been to. Just trying to say that YMMV.

There is no question that the 4 Dublin clubs all have an attitude (for want of a better term) and have notions about ourselves. Certainly not into the idea of having brotherly relations with other clubs fans in the league the way you might get in rugby and with certain LOI clubs.

Clearly the likes of Wexford, Longford, Drogheda, and perhaps Derry don't have those us against the world notions (it sounds silly when you discuss it on an internet forum, but then again so does most of the tribalist football fan culture when you analyse it)

I know Shels aren't one of those really friendly 'ah you're an away fan, come in for a cup of tea' clubs, but you're not going to get an unprovoked attack either so I guess it just is what is and probably isn't going to change, and probably doesn't need to.

CSF

doncarlos wrote: »

It's no less safe than Tallaght. Dundalk fans have been attacked a number of times there. It's the only ground in Ireland that I never feel entirely safe visiting.

Yeah there seems to be a thing there with Rovers and Dundalk. I'm definitely not making Rovers out to be anything they're not (they've probably the most violent element among their support of any club in the league from stories I keep reading) but I'm just saying that in my experience, most times I leave Tallaght (bar one horrible horrible time on a Luas), I've a peaceful trip home, whereas most times I leave Derry or Limerick, I don't.

dundalkfc10

We have no issues in Derry, never have... Last time we were up, our scumbag fans, (yes we have them too) were getting pics of the Free Derry Wall and singing Rebel songs with these wee thugs in Derry. They always be about when we visit but never any issues.

Only problems at our games seem to be with Rovers and Bohs, although was trouble in Drogheda this year for first time in years

Clearly see the Rovers fans were provoked here but its going to happen unfortunately from the local scum in places, as they have a reputation for causing trouble and 90% time trouble happens (is reported to have happened) They are 1 of the sets of fans involved

CSF

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

We have no issues in Derry, never have... Last time we were up, our scumbag fans, (yes we have them too) were getting pics of the Free Derry Wall and singing Rebel songs with these wee thugs in Derry. They always be about when we visit but never any issues.

Only problems at our games seem to be with Rovers and Bohs, although was trouble in Drogheda this year for first time in years

Clearly see the Rovers fans were provoked here but its going to happen unfortunately from the local scum in places, as they have a reputation for causing trouble and 90% time trouble happens (is reported to have happened) They are 1 of the sets of fans involved

Maybe its a Dublin club comes to town thing, I dunno

dundalkfc10

CSF wrote: »

Maybe its a Dublin club comes to town thing, I dunno

I'd imagine it is exactly that. Wonder if Sligo or Harps fans get problems in Derry too

CSF

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

I'd imagine it is exactly that. Wonder if Sligo or Harps fans get problems in Derry too

No idea, but if that is the case, it is a Derry problem, not a Dublin problem.

dundalkfc10

. F wrote: »

No idea, but if that is the case, it is a Derry problem, not a Dublin problem.

Id say a bit of both to be honest. Clearly its a problem in Derry, but if the club can't police the road outside the carpark where the stones came from to begin with, what can they do? Its a weird situation there compared to elsewhere

Pighead

We've had a pretty good relationship with Derry for as long as I can remember. I can't verify this as I didn't notice them there on the day but it's always been said that a gang of Derry supporters actually travelled to Dublin in 2002 to support us as we claimed a glorious FAI Cup final victory over Bohs.

doncarlos

CSF wrote: »

No idea, but if that is the case, it is a Derry problem, not a Dublin problem.

Would agree with this. I'm sure the local scrotes look at the Dublin teams coming up and see it as a challenge especially when they have a reputation. Unfairly or not Rovers have a reputation of hooligan fans and that makes all their fans a target to these scrotes.

doncarlos

Pighead wrote: »

We've had a pretty good relationship with Derry for as long as I can remember. I can't verify this as I didn't notice them there on the day but it's always been said that a gang of Derry supporters actually travelled to Dublin in 2002 to support us as we claimed a glorious FAI Cup final victory over Bohs.

For years Derry fans used to stop in Lillywhite lounge on their way back from away trips. The lillywhite used to put on a few free sandwiches so there was a bit of a relationship built up.

CSF

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

Id say a bit of both to be honest. Clearly its a problem in Derry, but if the club can't police the road outside the carpark where the stones came from to begin with, what can they do? Its a weird situation there compared to elsewhere

I just don't see how it is. How are the Shels/Bohs/Rovers/Pats fans ALL provoking the Derry locals? Being loud? Singing songs? Thinking we are great?

NIMAN

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

I'd imagine it is exactly that. Wonder if Sligo or Harps fans get problems in Derry too

They don't.

NIMAN

doncarlos wrote: »

Would agree with this. I'm sure the local scrotes look at the Dublin teams coming up and see it as a challenge especially when they have a reputation. Unfairly or not Rovers have a reputation of hooligan fans and that makes all their fans a target to these scrotes.

I think its a fair reputation.

CSF

NIMAN wrote: »

I think its a fair reputation.

It is, very fair, but that doesn't make Rovers in the wrong when their fans get attacked leaving the Brandywell.

NIMAN

CSF wrote: »

It is, very fair, but that doesn't make Rovers in the wrong when their fans get attacked leaving the Brandywell.

Of couse it doesn't.

No fan should ever come to a football game expecting to get stoned when leaving, I find it embarrassing as a Derry fan but there is little I can do to stop little scrots from the Brandywell area hanging around throwing stones after the game. Plus I think there is little the club can do either to be honest.

But there is something the police could do, if they had the will.

At what point or distance is it no longer the clubs problem and a police issue?
Years ago, Derry fans used to get stoned in Newbuildings when coming back from away games. Thats about 5 miles outside of town. Say these wee scrots, instead of stoning and fighting outside the Brandywell, went a few miles away to where the buses were going back to Dublin and stoned them there, would it still be a Derry City FC problem?

I also think that a certain section of Rovers fans would be disappointed if they didn't get attacked in Derry.

CSF

NIMAN wrote: »

Of couse it doesn't.

No fan should ever come to a football game expecting to get stoned when leaving, I find it embarrassing as a Derry fan but there is little I can do to stop little scrots from the Brandywell area hanging around throwing stones after the game. Plus I think there is little the club can do either to be honest.

But there is something the police could do, if they had the will.

At what point or distance is it no longer the clubs problem and a police issue?
Years ago, Derry fans used to get stoned in Newbuildings when coming back from away games. Thats about 5 miles outside of town. Say these wee scrots, instead of stoning and fighting outside the Brandywell, went a few miles away to where the buses were going back to Dublin and stoned them there, would it still be a Derry City FC problem?

I also think that a certain section of Rovers fans would be disappointed if they didn't get attacked in Derry.

You're right, there is a grey area in terms of what the clubs should or shouldn't be responsible for. I couldn't begin to name a distance, it's definitely a pretty short one.

Directly outside the ground isn't in that grey area though, not at all.

NIMAN

Agree CSF, totally right. In the UK the clubs pay to have police at the ground. We have a rather unusual situation as you all know in the North, that we self-steward due to the fact that police are generally not welcomed in the area.

btw The last time Derry were in Dublin for a Pats away game, a supporters bus was ransacked and windows smashed less than 100 yards from the ground. Whose responsibility is that?

I never heard about this at all until I read about it the other day on the Derry City fan forum.

Gavin "shels"

NIMAN wrote: »

In the UK the clubs pay to have police at the ground.

Likewise in Ireland.

NIMAN

We don't.

overshoot

NIMAN wrote: »

They don't.

ah now, we once got fined for bogroll going back and forth!
it was a relegation/promotion play off mind you!

CSF

NIMAN wrote: »

Agree CSF, totally right. In the UK the clubs pay to have police at the ground. We have a rather unusual situation as you all know in the North, that we self-steward due to the fact that police are generally not welcomed in the area.

btw The last time Derry were in Dublin for a Pats away game, a supporters bus was ransacked and windows smashed less than 100 yards from the ground. Whose responsibility is that?

I never heard about this at all until I read about it the other day on the Derry City fan forum.

Of course I think the same about Derry visiting Dublin. I can't speak for the other clubs but generally Tolka is a trip you can expect to make without hassle on the way out. Like everywhere else, isolated incidents can occur.

anncoates

CSF wrote: »

Maybe its a Dublin club comes to town thing, I dunno

Maybe it's exacerbated by the fact that every single real or imagined scuffle, no matter how minor or far from the ground involving Dublin clubs immediately finds itself online on auld wan banter pages, fool.ie and then in the rags for the amusement of barstoolers and enemies of the league.

Brandywell is a strange case because of the location and the policing issues that come with that. You can hardly blame the Derry supporters for what goes on outside the ground though.

CSF

anncoates wrote: »

Maybe it's exacerbated by the fact that every single real or imagined scuffle, no matter how minor or far from the ground involving Dublin clubs immediately finds itself online on auld wan banter pages, fool.ie and then in the rags for the amusement of barstoolers and enemies of the league.

Brandywell is a strange case because of the location and the policing issues that come with that. You can hardly blame the Derry supporters for what goes on outside the ground though.

I'm not blaming the Derry supporters, merely pointing out that it can't continue.

NIMAN

Can it continue in Dublin?

I don't think there is any answer to it tbh. Derry aren't getting a new stadium away from the Brandywell, indeed we might never get funding to redevelop the ground where it is!!

Due to the nature of the area, it will have a higher number of scrots around. Always will have.

As for the trouble after the game, to be frank, I couldn't care any less about hoods from both sides meeting up for a punch-up, as long as no innocent people/fans get hit and as long as the clubs name doesn't get dragged through the mud. Unfortunately the latter will always happen. If a load of scumbags who have never visited the Brandywell attack away fans outside the ground, the media tend to report "... attacked by Derry fans".

Unfortunately football attracts the braindead. Rugby forums don't have these discussions. The fact that 99% of football fans in Ireland would meet and drink with opposition fans with no hassle never makes the news.

flas

I think its a mixture of both really,the fans and the policing/stewarding in and around the ground!

I know in longford we never had any problems for years and years, then a new super started in the area, a pure gaa man through and through and he started to make demands for policing outside the ground that seen the feckin dog unit et all drafted in and generally the police presence became very heavy handed for a few certain teams and it was only after this that there started to be a little bit of trouble in the carpark!

The infamous cage was set up for the visit of linfield in the setanta cup and at some stage they decided this was a good idea to keep, thankfully it is gone now.

On the other hand the only other trouble over the years has been people attaching themselves to rovers coming down and smashing up a few pubs and a village a few miles outside the town(tarmon) after drinking there all day before a game!

Where we are located now means that our local scumbags(and anyone who knows longford town knows there is a good number of these) generally don't know there is a game on or at the very least don't come into contact with visitin fans! If we still had the greyhound track as our home ground id imagine the lads from the estates around it(of youtube "****e in a bucket" fame) would have gotten us a bad name around the country a long time ago!

CSF

NIMAN wrote: »

Can it continue in Dublin?

I don't think there is any answer to it tbh. Derry aren't getting a new stadium away from the Brandywell, indeed we might never get funding to redevelop the ground where it is!!

Due to the nature of the area, it will have a higher number of scrots around. Always will have.

As for the trouble after the game, to be frank, I couldn't care any less about hoods from both sides meeting up for a punch-up, as long as no innocent people/fans get hit and as long as the clubs name doesn't get dragged through the mud. Unfortunately the latter will always happen. If a load of scumbags who have never visited the Brandywell attack away fans outside the ground, the media tend to report "... attacked by Derry fans".

Unfortunately football attracts the braindead. Rugby forums don't have these discussions. The fact that 99% of football fans in Ireland would meet and drink with opposition fans with no hassle never makes the news.

Can what continue in Dublin? Even Tallaght doesn't have that situation and a pocket of Rovers fans as has been discussed are not the nicest.

Rovers hooligans and Bohs hooligans can bash each other into oblivion a kilometre away from the ground. That can continue. Don't care.

But the ground itself needs to be a place where the away fans can go without getting routinely attacked every time they leave it.

If that can't be fixed, then there was no reason for Derry being in the League of Ireland rather than the Irish League because the whole point of the move was to avoid the trouble Derry were encountering there, or at least that is what I thought it was.

People saying that it isn't the Derry fans' fault, and that the club can't police outside the ground (just because they aren't compelled to pay police to look after the game doesn't mean they shouldn't IMO), and I agree that it isn't the Derry's fans fault, but that isn't entirely relevant and something has to be done to stop it happening routinely every time certain clubs visit.

dfx-

If coach companies refuse to take the opposition teams to the area, does it jeopardise fixtures?

I know from experience buses have been hit turning left towards the river and now right out of the ground and like Oriel there is only one way out of the place. That's not the case at Dalymount or Tolka. Is the only way to stop it to walk out and scare them off...? Play fixtures in broad daylight - Sunday afternoons?

NIMAN wrote: »

Unfortunately football attracts the braindead. Rugby forums don't have these discussions. The fact that 99% of football fans in Ireland would meet and drink with opposition fans with no hassle never makes the news.

Admitting to discussing rugby is more embarrassing than anything else..