American Sniper - Bradley Cooper - Clint Eastwood Dir

Adamantium

I just came back from this and my friends and I loved it. Powerful as hell and what may be one of the first truly definitive looks of a soldiers life in Iraq and why decent men would do what they do, the way you got into Kyle's headspace and those of his comrades and their principles. Very much as it is story. The politics are left out of the movie and that is just unacceptable to the left wingers. I found it rather neutral if anything, any intelligent viewer could look and see why war is savage and life altering. It showed it raw, unfiltered and honest. There was a certain naivety to do this sort of thing and endearing quality that these guys would fight, and Eastwood does get that across rather subtly. This is gonna seem a weird comparison but the way they portrayed the armed forces felt reminiscent of the reimagined BSG, which is the highest compliment.

We have had many looks at
"whatz terror we have Americans have wratz upon the world, what has become of our country, war is bad m'kay??"

It was so damn refreshing to not get the redneck racism stereotype, therefore ignorant, guntotting and war loving without humanity at all as if that were only behaviour available to those in the South.

Michael Moore an co have to whip the audiences into humiliation and tell them how terrible they are enjoying what they do and then present a story, seems more manipulative than anything Eastwood has done here. Clearly a massive section of the population that were quiet have identified with it, that normally wouldn't these kind of films,

The cinema was so quiet during the ending, it's the kind of film you leave stunned and stirred/saddened inside and a bit thankful that people like Chris Kyle do volunteer around the world so I don't have too. Simply because Eastwood respects and honors the men who fight doesn't mean he respects or honors the policies that put them there.

I love Eastwood's plain,clean directing and use of natural lighting, and Bradley Cooper disappeared into the character, complete embodiment. I thought he was fantastic in Limitless, but he absolutely deserves a shot at best actor for this. The wife was excellent as well. She and Bradley Cooper had terrific chemistry, I believed every moment they shared together as a couple.

There is a certain sincerity to the film and I enjoy that lack of irony. Kudos to Clint the badass for having the balls to make an R-Rated film that has being extremely successful showing the kids how it's done, maybe we'll get back a few franchises back to R soon now. It'll be a sad day for cinema when he's not with us.

SHOVELLER

Saw it a few weeks ago here and at the end there was just complete silence. So surprised to hear there was an ovation after a viewing at home.

Anyway a powerful movie and Cooper pulls it off very well. But talk of it being propaganda is wrong. I doubt many will sign up to go to war based on this movie. In fact it could be termed an anti war movie.

Also Kyle signed up for this and as a sniper is he really expected to go out to that hellhole and not do his job?

This is also true for the accusation that he was a serial killer. What errant nonsense. As is the comparison to Inglorious Basterds.

The timing of the release here considering the continuing cowardice of ISIS, Boko Haram and the Paris attacks means there is a thirst for this movie turning it into a cultural phenomenon. Also the trailer is superb in its anticipation and add in the lack of competition means the runway success is not altogether surprising.

The debate over it only helps the box office. Michael Moore is not clever enough to realise that with his stupid tweet.

darced

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Arsemageddon

Saw this last night and thought it was awful muck.

Characters other than the main man were all poorly fleshed out. Bradley Cooper is utterly lacing in charisma and his accent is frequently unintelligible.

The action sequences were all very stodgy, completely lacking in tension.

The CGI used for the helicopters would have looked crap ten years ago.

2/5

Arsemageddon

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Did you notice on the news the American citizens in civvies lobbing grenades at Iraqi's in Fallujah? Nope, me neither. There didn't tend to be many American insurgents fighting the Iraqi's in Iraq. Tends not to work that way when the war is in Iraq.

Well there were rather a large number of Americans (and other nationalities) working as private military contractors (PMCs) who are technically classified as civilians under international law.

By the by, nsurgents are those fighting against the invading/occupying force.

FloatingVoter

Having just seen reports of that man being burnt alive, I think this is due a rewatch. Now I'm going to watch it drunk with beer in hand and have a laugh.
Any objections, take it to the Politics forum. I'm happy to talk Birdman v. Whiplash any day of the week in here. Though Cool Runnings is still better than both.

Memnoch

FloatingVoter wrote: »

Having just seen reports of that man being burnt alive, I think this is due a rewatch. Now I'm going to watch it drunk with beer in hand and have a laugh.
Any objections, take it to the Politics forum. I'm happy to talk Birdman v. Whiplash any day of the week in here. Though Cool Runnings is still better than both.

Because the actions of extremists justify the murder of innocents by other extremists with more money and better weapons. Only these ones 'look like us.'

FloatingVoter

Memnoch wrote: »

Because the actions of extremists justify the murder of innocents by other extremists with more money and better weapons. Only these ones 'look like us.'

It's a war. Enjoy the moral high ground. Hope the tide doesn't come in.

Cool_CM

Man, that Clint Eastwood loves America, probably even more than Rambo loves America, and Rambo loves America!

SHOVELLER

darced wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Well I guess when he saw his co workers killed taking enjoyment from doing his job is not unreasonable.

Kyle did claim to have killed car jackers and looters in New Orleans despite there not a shred of evidence. Either he said it to boost his own ego or PTSD did really alter him.

I disagree that the film makes him out to be a hero.

Texans are a different breed.

While Cooper was good as Kyle I found it hard to believe the depiction as it was hard to get away from the fact this is a bigger Cooper. Putting a smaller name actor in probably wouldnt have got by the studio.

Guy:Incognito

SHOVELLER wrote: »

Kyle did claim to have killed car jackers and looters in New Orleans despite there not a shred of evidence. Either he said it to boost his own ego or PTSD did really alter him.
.

The story I found when I was digging a few weeks back by a journalist that interviewed him iirc, seemed to suggest the journalist asked him about the New Orleans thing as being other seal that did it and he said he heard they did, rather than him actually being there and doing it himself. Its possible the original story got mixed up and eventually attributed to him when his fame blew up (post death maybe and thus not around to set it straight?)

Must try find that article again. Cant remember any details as far as who the writer was or what site it was on though.

e_e

FloatingVoter wrote: »

Any objections, take it to the Politics forum.

Seriously? People shouldn't criticize the politics that a film brings to the table?

I'll never understand this idea that everything can be criticized except the politics in a work of art. It reeks of "lalalala not listening I'd rather not have to think about this stuff thanks!".

Memnoch

e_e wrote: »

Seriously? People shouldn't criticize the politics that a film brings to the table?

I'll never understand this idea that everything can be criticized except the politics in a work of art. It reeks of "lalalala not listening I'd rather not have to think about this stuff thanks!".

The irony is that it is exactly the POLITICS of the film that have lead to its commercial success. So really it's more that people don't want that challenged.

R P McMurphy

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

The story I found when I was digging a few weeks back by a journalist that interviewed him iirc, seemed to suggest the journalist asked him about the New Orleans thing as being other seal that did it and he said he heard they did, rather than him actually being there and doing it himself. Its possible the original story got mixed up and eventually attributed to him when his fame blew up (post death maybe and thus not around to set it straight?)

Must try find that article again. Cant remember any details as far as who the writer was or what site it was on though.

That doesn't appear to be the case with all of the other reports. They state that he told the story in front of a number of people when they were having a few drinks. The stories differ among the people present as to whether he said he killed 30 people by himself of 30 in conjunction with his Buddy.

mrsdewinter

I hate war movies and went to this largely as a compromise but I really enjoyed it, if enjoyed is the right word. The more I see of Bradley Cooper, the more I like him - and I loved him as this rough, overweight redneck who would probably have *hated* the usually suave Cooper. Could somebody who has read Kyle's life story help me out, though. We see Kyle go from being an ace sniper to entering people's houses and interrogating families (I'm thinking particularly of the family who claim to know The Butcher, where the father demands $100k). Did that actually happen? I would have thought interrogation and deal-broking would be a madly specialised job, as is being a sniper. Did they really have guys who doubled up on those tasks?

Tony EH

TheDoc wrote: »

It's interesting watching commentary and reaction from America itself. A lot of even Hollywood names throwing some varying opinions and the likes.

Still can't help but feel too many people are letting their actual feelings about that theatre of war come into the mix. If this was set in WW2, I doubt there would be such conflicting opinions.

Um...yeh. I think there's a great film yet to be made about a Wehrmacht sniper.

Can't see that raising any kind of silly reaction at all.

:pac:

cork guitar player

Good movie, I love Clint's style anyway.

Would have like to seen more on the soldiers thoughts about the validity of the war , was explored a tiny bit in Bubble's letter.

That drill fukker will stick with me.

Cooper is like a different man.

Memnoch

mrsdewinter wrote: »

I hate war movies and went to this largely as a compromise but I really enjoyed it, if enjoyed is the right word. The more I see of Bradley Cooper, the more I like him - and I loved him as this rough, overweight redneck who would probably have *hated* the usually suave Cooper. Could somebody who has read Kyle's life story help me out, though. We see Kyle go from being an ace sniper to entering people's houses and interrogating families (I'm thinking particularly of the family who claim to know The Butcher, where the father demands $100k). Did that actually happen? I would have thought interrogation and deal-broking would be a madly specialised job, as is being a sniper. Did they really have guys who doubled up on those tasks?

Most of the film is fiction. Some of it based on Kyle's 'version' of events and the rest by Eastwood and his screenwriters for the purpose of drama and theme.

Tony EH

I saw this today and I have to say I was very unimpressed and quite surprised at Eastwood's turn here, as I quite like a number of his films.

It's a film that is very jingoistic and anyone who doesn't think there is at least a large dollop of propaganda, is either very naive or just doesn't understand what the word means.

The tone of equating 9/11 with Iraqi "terrorism" left a very bad taste in the mouth, especially when one considers that it was the US who launched an invasion of a country that had NOTHING WHATSOEVER TO DO WITH 9/11, was based on the flimsiest of ridiculous lies, was against the wishes of the vast majority of global community AND who actions have led to the subsequent disastrous conditions we witness today.

Here we have a film, essentially, glorifying the exploits of a hitman sanctioned by a government who were the invaders of a foreign nation and who have caused immense and completely unnecessary destruction.

It's a film that is incredibly one-sided, but not only one-sided, it's one-sided in spoofery, which is frankly, unforgivable.

In addition, it's depiction of Iraqi's (the people who have suffered the most in the war) is quite vile and borders on racism, that would have other nations up in arms, and I am forced to wonder how much of Kyle's story is real and how much is utter bunkum.

It will, of course, appeal to the unthinking "fuck yeah" element within America and elsewhere, but the rewriting of recent historical events, not even 15 years old, is quite lamentable.

The bottom line is, is that the story in 'American Sniper' could and SHOULD have been far more complex and layered. Instead we get a bog standard flag waver, with some cliched "whining wife" scenes back home and it just isn't good enough.

I think Seth Rogen was bang on the money with his assertion and I never thought I'd ever hear myself say that.

TerrorFirmer

To be honest, I'm quite surprised at the reactions that point to the equation of Iraq with 9/11 within the movie as deplorable - what I took from the movie, and what I thought was fairly obvious, was that the entire situation was presented from Chris Kyle's eyes, in tandem with media reports at the time - nothing to do with director bias. I don't think in that regard that the movie was dishonest in the slightest. Neither do I think it's a pro-USA, pro-war feature - it simply presents the war as one man saw it, and the reasons he considered justification for what he did. If anything, the movie was closer to an anti-war one, showing the devastating effect the war had on individuals and those closest to them back home - the scene with his brother, overwhelmingly disillusioned, saying '**** this place', was a very powerful one in that regard that echoed throughout the movie for me.

I think we've all seen our fair share of gung-ho, pro-USA action films, but I really wouldn't count this among them. No winners from this movie to be honest.

macslash

Saw this tonight and thought it was very good. The war scenes were tense and dramatic and Cooper, I thought, was excellent. His journey over the course of the film was fantastic.

Tony EH

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

To be honest, I'm quite surprised at the reactions that point to the equation of Iraq with 9/11 within the movie as deplorable - what I took from the movie, and what I thought was fairly obvious, was that the entire situation was presented from Chris Kyle's eyes, in tandem with media reports at the time

Well, to be equally honest, that just simply isn't good enough.

After the attempts by the US to link Iraq and Saddam Hussein to 9/11 failed, they heightened their other lies about WMDs. Eastwood could have included scenes where Kyle was watching those broadcasts, which we now know were false, to even out the viewer experience.

It's very possible, in fact it's a duty as far as I'm concerned, for a film maker to go to such, not unreasonable, lengths to enlighten an audience in such ways when making a film of this type.

There are still a huge number of Americans who still, to this day, link Iraq with September 11th 2001 and 'American Sniper' isn't going to do anything to help that pathetic situation.

That's just utterly mind boggling.

Memnoch

I'm not sure how intentional this is, but having some understanding of screenwriting, the sniper and American sniper by extension is a brilliant metaphor.

The sniper is someone who is able to deliver detached, calculated judgement. The unvarnished truth is revealed through their scope. They are precise and discriminating. Amongst melee and chaos they can carefully select their targets, thus minimising harm to the innocent.

The portrayal of Kyle then is that of a fundamentally good and honest man, who feels morally bound to protect those weaker than him from the 'savages' of society. He enters into the war to avenge a wrong and to keep 'his people' safe and to try to help people who are so fundamentally flawed that they probably don't deserve his sacrifice. He may be misguided but his cause his just and his intentions righteous. He kills only to protect his comrades in arms from vicious, violent extremists and he pays a heavy personal price for his bravery and selflessness.

(How ANYONE can claim this is not a glorification of the man and thus through him of the war itself is unfathomable to me)

At least, that is the narrative of the movie.

And is it not the perfect metaphor for America itself? Or at least, the perfect metaphor for the lie that the supporters of the war want to tell and believe about the American invasion of Iraq?

An invasion conducted out of necessity and right, with the purest of intentions at heart. Against a savage people, probably beyond saving and yet done with the utmost humanity and kindness, all at terrible cost to this great nation.

Certainly not a war of greed and profit, based on lies, instigated by corrupt men and carried out by flawed, ignorant men, some of whom acted savagely and brutally and who inflicted incalculable suffering on mostly innocent people. Certainly not a senseless and needless loss of life, including many young Americans, sacrificed for nought but the selfish ambition of a handful of the enriched ruling classes.

R P McMurphy

mrsdewinter wrote: »

I hate war movies and went to this largely as a compromise but I really enjoyed it, if enjoyed is the right word. The more I see of Bradley Cooper, the more I like him - and I loved him as this rough, overweight redneck who would probably have *hated* the usually suave Cooper. Could somebody who has read Kyle's life story help me out, though. We see Kyle go from being an ace sniper to entering people's houses and interrogating families (I'm thinking particularly of the family who claim to know The Butcher, where the father demands $100k). Did that actually happen? I would have thought interrogation and deal-broking would be a madly specialised job, as is being a sniper. Did they really have guys who doubled up on those tasks?

I wouldn't be taking anything from the book as the truth either. I n it he claims to have personally located WMD while in Iraq

Boskowski

Territory bad movie I thought. Bored me to death.
If you leave the questionable ethics and propaganda and glorification of war stuff aside I thought both story and acting were really boring and wooden. The film never gripped me once.
And then of course there is the reality of the story. Guy kills dozen of people from his safe hideout and loves it so much he can't cope with not doing it anymore. Aww the poor guy, boo fkn hoo. Some hero alright.
Can't think of an angle of that story that appealed to me. Worst supposedly great movie in a long long time.
And it's not like I'm a hater of that stuff. Black hawk down I really liked and hurt locker got me but this was so very disappointing on all fronts.

happysunnydays

Tony EH wrote: »

After the attempts by the US to link Iraq and Saddam Hussein to 9/11 failed, they heightened their other lies about WMDs. Eastwood could have included scenes where Kyle was watching those broadcasts, which we now know were false, to even out the viewer experience.
.

Why didn't they show more of the attacks on western embassies and cities, or more footage of the thousands of innocent people attacked in NY on 9/11. Why didn't show these stone age barbarians lopping people heads off or burning them in cages? Why didn't they show that?
It's nice that you can sit in the comfort of your armchair influenced by the enemy's propaganda machine isn't it?

Tony EH

:pac:

darced

This post has been deleted.

happysunnydays

Tony EH wrote: »

:pac:

C'mon Tony, give it to us, why so calm and measured...its so boring my friend!
Is your brain not getting all steamy and angry, fire shooting from the ears, ready to blow like a big bloated tomato, let's see the real rage for this piece of a ungodly stateside propaganda. Channel it, dismount your hi-horses and channel the dark side.

shamrock55

Saw this last night and thought it was only alright, pretty much the same thing throughout with a poor ending to boot, nowhere near as good as its hyped up to be

DarkyHughes

The real Chris Kyle sounded at best to be a complete scumbag & at worst a bloody thirsty war criminal at most.

DavidRamsay99

DarkyHughes wrote: »

The real Chris Kyle sounded at best to be a complete scumbag & at worst a bloody thirsty war criminal at most.

Shooting jihadists is a war crime?

Jamsiek

Adamantium wrote: »

I just came back from this and my friends and I loved it. Powerful as hell and what may be one of the first truly definitive looks of a soldiers life in Iraq and why decent men would do what they do, the way you got into Kyle's headspace and those of his comrades and their principles. Very much as it is story. The politics are left out of the movie and that is just unacceptable to the left wingers. I found it rather neutral if anything, any intelligent viewer could look and see why war is savage and life altering. It showed it raw, unfiltered and honest. There was a certain naivety to do this sort of thing and endearing quality that these guys would fight, and Eastwood does get that across rather subtly. This is gonna seem a weird comparison but the way they portrayed the armed forces felt reminiscent of the reimagined BSG, which is the highest compliment.

We have had many looks at
"whatz terror we have Americans have wratz upon the world, what has become of our country, war is bad m'kay??"

It was so damn refreshing to not get the redneck racism stereotype, therefore ignorant, guntotting and war loving without humanity at all as if that were only behaviour available to those in the South.

Michael Moore an co have to whip the audiences into humiliation and tell them how terrible they are enjoying what they do and then present a story, seems more manipulative than anything Eastwood has done here. Clearly a massive section of the population that were quiet have identified with it, that normally wouldn't these kind of films,

The cinema was so quiet during the ending, it's the kind of film you leave stunned and stirred/saddened inside and a bit thankful that people like Chris Kyle do volunteer around the world so I don't have too. Simply because Eastwood respects and honors the men who fight doesn't mean he respects or honors the policies that put them there.

I love Eastwood's plain,clean directing and use of natural lighting, and Bradley Cooper disappeared into the character, complete embodiment. I thought he was fantastic in Limitless, but he absolutely deserves a shot at best actor for this. The wife was excellent as well. She and Bradley Cooper had terrific chemistry, I believed every moment they shared together as a couple.

There is a certain sincerity to the film and I enjoy that lack of irony. Kudos to Clint the badass for having the balls to make an R-Rated film that has being extremely successful showing the kids how it's done, maybe we'll get back a few franchises back to R soon now. It'll be a sad day for cinema when he's not with us.

Problem is that Kyle was a proven fantasist so I wouldn't believe anything in this movie as fact. Also while I like Bradley Cooper as an actor, and Clint Esstwood as an actor and director. I found it hard to take the movie seriously.
It's a good movie if you can switch your brain off for a couple of hours

drugstore cowboy

Fox News promoting it to be the greatest movie ever tells you all you need to know.

The Sean Hannity love in for it is beyond nauseating,

e_e

Saw this today and god what a dull movie. Lackluster script, completely flat direction, shallow development of a very empty character and a really timid approach to its themes that feel like Eastwood trying way too hard to run away from controversy. Cooper and Miller are very good but you can see them really strain behind pretty uninteresting (on screen anyway) characters.

Amazingfun

RIP Chris ......

Breaking News: Jury finds Eddie Ray Routh guilty of capital murder in the shooting deaths of former Navy SEAL Chris Kyle and Chad Littlefield.

http://fxn.ws/1D9lHy5

donaghs

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

nothing to do with director bias. I don't think in that regard that the movie was dishonest in the slightest.

The director chooses what to include and what to exclude. What "angles", visual and narrative to use. And he picks the script - which clearly differentiates from the known truth about Chris Kyle's experience (enlisting at 24 not 30, shooting a boy, "the butcher" character being Sunni, the syrian sniper, etc, etc). Obviously the film can't be 10 years long - but what's left in will clearly show a bias.

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Neither do I think it's a pro-USA, pro-war feature - it simply presents the war as one man saw it, and the reasons he considered justification for what he did.

But, then he was wrong. His "fight them here rather than in San Diego or New York" logic is either based on deception or ignorance - and it gets much prominence in the film. And therefore the film is wrong in tone.

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

If anything, the movie was closer to an anti-war one, showing the devastating effect the war had on individuals and those closest to them back home - the scene with his brother, overwhelmingly disillusioned, saying '**** this place', was a very powerful one in that regard that echoed throughout the movie for me.

Without taking away from the KIAs, and veterans suffering - perhaps if the invasion had never taken place this wouldn't have to be the case - and a hell of a lot more innocent Iraqi's wouldn't have suffered as much.

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

I think we've all seen our fair share of gung-ho, pro-USA action films, but I really wouldn't count this among them. No winners from this movie to be honest.

Without wanting to descend too far into cliches, I think it makes Fox news watching Americans feel better about themselves.

happysunnydays wrote: »

Why didn't they show more of the attacks on western embassies and cities, or more footage of the thousands of innocent people attacked in NY on 9/11. Why didn't show these stone age barbarians lopping people heads off or burning them in cages? Why didn't they show that?
It's nice that you can sit in the comfort of your armchair influenced by the enemy's propaganda machine isn't it?

Possibly because the attacks on the embassies and 9/11 weren't related to Saddam Hussein's Iraq?
Do you mean by burning and beheading, ISIS/ISIL? Surely you know this happened after the invasion? Bad as he was, life in Hussein's Iraq was a million times better than during the US or ISIS occupations.
Maybe they should have included a post-script of ISIS to show the consequences.

Technocentral

Wasn't the guy this is based on a right wing racist? Why make films about these scumbags?

Right Turn Clyde

Technocentral wrote: »

Wasn't the guy this is based on a right wing racist? Why make films about these scumbags?

I guess you've never seen Downfall.

Technocentral

DavidRamsay99 wrote:

Shooting jihadists is a war crime?

no of corse not but your man its based on was a racist low life by all accounts.

Technocentral

Right Turn Clyde wrote:

I guess you've never seen Downfall.

I did, great film about a mass murderer that wasn't embraced by the far right unlike this?

Right Turn Clyde

Technocentral wrote: »

no of corse not but your man its based on was a racist low life by all accounts.

What a film is 'about', and what its 'themes' are can be very different things. There's plenty of films made about utterly horrendous people, but the films are worthwhile because they address certain issues and promote debate and conversation. This film has absolutely done that. Go see the film and join the conversation, rather than ranting away about stuff you've half-heard.

Technocentral

DarkyHughes wrote:

The real Chris Kyle sounded at best to be a complete scumbag & at worst a bloody thirsty war criminal at most.

True , but lots on here seem to admire those kind of violent scum.

Right Turn Clyde

Technocentral wrote: »

True , but lots on here seem to admire those kind of violent scum.

Who on here admires violent scum? Do you ever think about what you're going to say before you drag your knuckles along the keyboard?

Technocentral

Do you? I'm not the one who admires scum like that paid murderer You and your sort are the knuckle dragging pricks.

Hande hoche!

Technocentral wrote: »

Wasn't the guy this is based on a right wing racist? Why make films about these scumbags?

From the book he seemed more like a mad xenophobe than racist.

Technocentral

Fcuk him and his sort.

Right Turn Clyde

Technocentral wrote: »

Do you? I'm not the one who admires scum like that paid murderer You and your sort are the knuckle dragging pricks.

I haven't even seen the film, and I know nothing about the real life guy except from what I read in the papers. I simply draw a distinction between real life and what a film tries to achieve. That's all I've said, and yet it's made you think that I support paid murderers? 'Me and my sort?'. Get some sleep kiddo. School in the morning.

johnny_ultimate

Enough of this please.

Technocentral

Your the one that started the insults mate.