Twin Peaks (2017) [Showtime/Sky Atlantic] [** Spoilers **]

johnny_ultimate

Well that wasn't an episode for those looking for some plot progression :pac:

Probably the most aesthetically extraordinary episode in the history of television - I don't say such things light, but that really was a hell of a trip.

Also Starring LeVar Burton

What the actual f*** did I just watch? My brain hurts and I'm not entirely sure whether I was meant to understand any of that or not, but I still think I really liked it despite feeling somewhat violated and possibly brainwashed...

johnny_ultimate

Well, I've slept on that, and what can be said?

It truly was unlike anything that has yet been broadcast on TV, even by this series' thus far extraordinary standards. It was purely experimental in form, long stretches of glitchy, hostile sight & sound. It at times felt like a darker flip side and extension to the 2001 'beyond the infinite' section. It was at times as dreamily beautiful as it was nightmarishly unnerving.

If all of that meant nothing, it would still have been a hell of a watch and an accomplishment. But despite the abstraction, this feels like an episode that wants to summarise some of the core themes of the series, and indeed Lynch's filmography in its entirely. It is about humanity's dark side, and a lust for violence and destruction. It's about how that's countered by genuine goodness. It is, frankly, the oldest story of them all - but trust David Lynch and Mark Frost to make a basic 'good vs evil' story feel fresh again.

There's something very special about the approach to special effects in this show. It really does feel otherworldly - from that terrifying 'blood smearing' sequence to the CGI effects that boast uncommon presence. The recent David Lynch: The Art Life documentary shows the physicality with which Lynch approaches his artwork - even if much of this is digital in origin, he's managed to translate that weird tangibility to the visuals here.

I cannot stress how much I adore this show. It really is the programme I've always hoped television as a medium had in it, and it's surpassing all expectations.

briany

ShaneU

Got a light?

briany

So... Questions.

1) Am I right to assume that BOB was created during the Trinity test? As in the blast created some sort of philisophical ripple in existence that led to the creation of perhaps a number of entities, of which BOB was one?

2) Was the soul of Laura Palmer sent to earth in a deliberate way? A pure spirit who was given to the world, and who was fated to meet with BOB?

3) Can I take it that BOB has now left Bad Cooper?

4) Were the Woodsmen also elemental type spirits who were created by the blast?

B_Wayne

That was the most extraordinary piece of television that I have ever seen. I think I'll watch it again during the week just to fully appreciate it.

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Well that wasn't an episode for those looking for some plot progression :pac:

Probably the most aesthetically extraordinary episode in the history of television - I don't say such things light, but that really was a hell of a trip.

briany wrote: »

So... Questions.

1) Am I right to assume that BOB was created during the Trinity test? As in the blast created some sort of philisophical ripple in existence that led to the creation of perhaps a number of entities, of which BOB was one?

2) Was the soul of Laura Palmer sent to earth in a deliberate way? A pure spirit who was given to the world, and who was fated to meet with BOB?

3) Can I take it that BOB has now left Bad Cooper?

4) Were the Woodsmen also elemental type spirits who were created by the blast?

I think the first one is a maybe. Second, I have absolutely no idea. Number 3, I don't think so. Fourth one is a maybe again. I'm not sure if I can be definite about anything after what I just watch.

RainMakerToo

Well that was pretty crazy alright!

I suppose to continue on my music related connections theme from last week, first thing i though of was this old video from "The Nine Inch Nails" as they were announced at the Bang Bang this week.

NSFW btw!!

I knew Reznor and Lynch had collaborated before, but didn't know until tonight that Lynch had directed a NIN video! So here's that one as well, this comes with an Epilepsy warning!

pasta-solo

As much as this is great television, I really really wish I'd seen that episode in a cinema. So good!

ixoy

WTF.

The OH is almost out after this episode but I've convinced him to give it another go. It's certainly memorable and there's been nothing remotely like it ever on TV that I'm aware of.

briany wrote: »

1) Am I right to assume that BOB was created during the Trinity test? As in the blast created some sort of philisophical ripple in existence that led to the creation of perhaps a number of entities, of which BOB was one?

Yeah, I'm assuming that was the creation of BOB or, if not that, then it created a rift between our world and another and BOB got through.

Was the soul of Laura Palmer sent to earth in a deliberate way? A pure spirit who was given to the world, and who was fated to meet with BOB?

Yeah, I agree with that. The weird dumb-bell thing was an alarm and the Giant births the soul/spirit of Laura. Not sure who the other spirit woman is that pushes Laura to earth. It also makes a bit more sense of the glowing bright Laura we see in FWWM.

3) Can I take it that BOB has now left Bad Cooper?

Not sure - maybe? I mean we were looking at an origin story here.

4) Were the Woodsmen also elemental type spirits who were created by the blast?

Not sure who the hell they were. Was that one of them last week in the morgue? And what were they doing at White Sands.

Also: What was the insect/frog thing? Is it carrying Laura's soul - was that Sarah Palmer that it climbed into? She was born though in 1946, which'd make her 10 in that sequence which seems a bit young.

briany

ixoy wrote: »

Also: What was the insect/frog thing? Is it carrying Laura's soul - was that Sarah Palmer that it climbed into? She was born though in 1946, which'd make her 10 in that sequence which seems a bit young.

I'd have to think it was carrying BOB. The Woodsman facilitated that event with his poem and killing the radio staff. Seems like a pretty evil act to provide a host for a good spirit. Although, you could say that the line between good and evil isn't always clear in a show as crazy as Twin Peaks is.

I read another interesting theory that the girl isn't Sarah Palmer, but rather the boy is Gordon Cole, and it's the apparent subsequent possession of his sweetheart that gives him a lifelong interest in the paranormal and which leads to his 'blue rose' cases in the FBI. Food for thought.

One interesting thought is that I don't think I've never actually seen a TP spirit entity appear in a tangible earthly form. This makes me wonder about the nature of the Woodsmen because at least one certainly appeared in a physical form, crushing the skull of a DJ and a secretary. Were they men possessed or something else entirely?

mzungu

Jaysus, that was deadly. Must give it a rewatch tomorrow.

ixoy

briany wrote: »

I'd have to think it was carrying BOB. The Woodsman facilitated that event with his poem and killing the radio staff. Seems like a pretty evil act to provide a host for a good spirit. Although, you could say that the line between good and evil isn't always clear in a show as crazy as Twin Peaks is.

The Woodsman are unusually physical. So they did a very odd lullaby to allow their vessel to enter ?????? (as she's credited). It definitely wouldn't make sense then that it's Laura if that's the case.
Why the intervening years though - BOB was "birthed" in '46.

RainMakerToo

Sad Professor wrote: »

... It's implied in the last episode that bad Cooper may have sexually assaulted Diane and possibly Audrey as well.

...I dunno, I still think Lynch sees Cooper as an overgrown boy-scout and as such not particularly interesting in himself...

I had an idea last week based on the whole possible "did something bad to Diane" idea. That Cooper was a sociopath all along, his voice memos just taunting Diane all along as though nothing ever happened. When his doppleganger came out it was just a purified form of his already existing evil. The whole "thumbs up, cherry-pie loving persona" was just a facade to fit in. All that was left was a shell, the facade, which is why Dougie seems so "empty". He's just the facade, trying to mimic his way to normality...

Crazy, drunken theory, but it's the only show that make we want to have a theory at the moment!

riffmongous

Coop asks MIKE during the police interrogation in 1989 'Is BOB near us now?' Mike replies 'For nearly 40 years in... 'The Great Northern Hotel''. This would imply that he had already possessed, Leland who was born in 44, around 1950 or so?

Woodsmen also appear during the garmonbozia meeting from FWWM

mloc123

Sad Professor wrote: »

It's more than just years Cooper has lost to bad Cooper. It's implied in the last episode that bad Cooper may have sexually assaulted Diane and possibly Audrey as well. And we don't know what other evil he has set in motion. I can't see Lynch just letting Cooper off the hook for that. At a minimum he will have to take responsibility for being tricked by Bob/badCoop.

Could Richard Horne (who knocked down the child) be the son of Audrey and bad Cooper?

Sad Professor

mloc123 wrote: »

Could Richard Horne (who knocked down the child) be the son of Audrey and bad Cooper?

Yeah, I've thinking that since he appeared. In the first episode the Giant told Cooper "Richard and Linda, two birds with the one stone", which suggests that Richard and Linda might be twins. We haven't met Linda yet, but she seems to be married to the trailer park guy (who Harry Dean Staton gave a ride to in part 6) and is in a wheelchair.

As for episode 8: Holy crap!

I need to watch it again and pay attention to the backstory being told, but I'm not convinced that the bomb was the birth of Bob. As riffmongous said, he had seemingly being possessing Leland and lurking around Twin Peaks for 40 years, which doesn't match up the timeline seen in this episode. But the bomb does appear to be the birth of "Mother" (i.e. the experiment that kills the couple in the first episode) who seemingly gives birth to Bob, so maybe they are playing around with time. The giant is older when he sees the bomb for the first time even though it happened in the past.

nearzero

Another theory is The Woodsman is the Log Ladys husband who was a lumberjack, who died in a fire on their wedding night. The Log Lady says her husband “met the devil.”

I loved that episode - I love the sense of disruption.

briany

I somewhat preferred the idea that BOB was a spirit as old as humanity itself. A demonic entity. We know the Lodges predate the bomb because of Hawk's people's beliefs, so have different spirits inhabited it throughout time? The bomb birth holds the idea that a spirit can be created, but can one be destroyed?

Sad Professor

Two weeks until the next episode...

briany

Sad Professor wrote: »

Two weeks until the next episode...

We who binged the first 4 eps on the first week know this pain already.

Sad Professor

briany wrote: »

We who binged the first 4 eps on the first week know this pain already.

It didn't feel so bad then, though, since we had 4 episodes to digest. But I guess we can just watch part 8 a few more times.

horgan_p

Da Fuq did I just watch ?
I'll need to watch twice more to get it....

riffmongous

briany wrote: »

I somewhat preferred the idea that BOB was a spirit as old as humanity itself. A demonic entity. We know the Lodges predate the bomb because of Hawk's people's beliefs, so have different spirits inhabited it throughout time? The bomb birth holds the idea that a spirit can be created, but can one be destroyed?

It sort of looks like the Woodsmen did some sort of ritual at the time of the explosion to call forth BOB from MOTHER. Perhaps Mother is some sort of older, baser form of evil being and BOB is a fraction of its essence, less powerful but capable of interacting more with humans due to it's summoning. There was also MIKE who described BOB as his familiar but other than that seemed to be a similar being to BOB


It reminds me a bit of the Chaos Daemons from the Warhammer universe, other dimensional beings created from strong human emotions.

riffmongous

While the BOB origin story is interesting, what is maybe more important is the Laura Palmer creation scene, it has huge implications for all the old episodes

RainMakerToo

riffmongous wrote: »

While the BOB origin story is interesting, what is maybe more important is the Laura Palmer creation scene, it has huge implications for all the old episodes

It could also be the creation of The Dwarf's cousin/Lodge version of Laura as she was first introduced to Cooper is his original dream. But then again it could be the Maddy Ferguson creation...

Here's the original dream btw

Ah, so many possibilities, Part 8 just has me thinking back to all sorts!

Sad Professor

I kinda like the idea that Laura was a being of the White Lodge, a sort of angel sent to Earth. That she was pure and good despite everything she did and which happened to her. Alternatively perhaps what we saw the Giant create was not Laura herself but her guardian angel. Angels figure quite a lot in FWWM. At one point Laura describes falling through space, faster and faster, with no angel to help her. The angel in her painting disappears but later re-appears at the end in the Black Lodge.

Speaking of which, I don't think the red room is the black lodge, rather a kind of in-between place or "waiting room" as it was originally described to Cooper. Which means we probably haven't seen it yet. If so, what we saw in this episode may only be a taste of of the craziness to come. According to Hawk, a spirit must travel through the black lodge to reach the white lodge. Just imagine how Lynch would visualise this.

riffmongous

Sad Professor wrote: »

I kinda like the idea that Laura was a being of the White Lodge, a sort of angel sent to Earth. That she was pure and good despite everything she did and which happened to her. Alternatively perhaps what we saw the Giant create was not Laura herself but her guardian angel. Angels figure quite a lot in FWWM. At one point Laura describes falling through space, faster and faster, with no angel to help her. The angel in her painting disappears but later re-appears at the end in the Black Lodge.

I need to rewatch her appearance at the very start of this season, I think that might make more sense now

Speaking of which, I don't think the red room is the black lodge, rather a kind of in-between place or "waiting room" as it was originally described to Cooper. Which means we probably haven't seen it yet. If so, what we saw in this episode may only be a taste of of the craziness to come. According to Hawk, a spirit must travel through the black lodge to reach the white lodge. Just imagine how Lynch would visualise this.

Yes, the black and white floor design also points towards a neutral area

Galwayguy35

Not a clue what that episode was about.

I think this series is only suited to fans of Lynch and not a wider audience.

I could follow the original as there was an actual story but this is too far out there for me, kinda disappointed because I was looking forward to it.

ixoy

I've just had this bizarre image all day now in my head:

Radio Host: Now caller, talk to Joe
Caller: Well Joe I was mindin' me on business
Radio Host: Go on
[Noise in background and then a sound a little bit like whimpering]
Caller: and sure next thing didn't he
Radio Host: This is the water, and this is the well. Drink full, and descend. The horse is the white of the eyes, and dark within.
Caller: Sorry Joe?
Radio Host: This is the water, and this is the well. Drink full, and descend. The horse is the white of the eyes, and dark within.
[Caller falls asleep]

That and if anyone scruffy with a hat asks me if I've got a light.. well I'm running.