Twin Peaks (2017) [Showtime/Sky Atlantic] [** Spoilers **]

strawdog

one armed dwarf wrote: »

I would have liked it a lot more where it shorter and leaner.

This was my feeling. I enjoyed the run, at times it was brilliant, and obviously compared to the season 2 farce of studio interference etc it was interesting to see TP go full-Lynch. But i do think it swung just a little too far that way. I get the impression there was no one there to say no or to give an opposing artistic view, so every whim was followed. Maybe great for the hardcore Lynch fans but a bit frustrating and exhausting at times (and purposefully so it seemed) for the less devoted. But I get the impression this was the only way the project was going to go ahead with a free hand for Lynch/Frost, so will take it. Definitely glad it was revisited.

one armed dwarf

Yeah the Time review made the point that sometimes when creative impulses are tempered the results can be even more interesting. I don't totally buy into the narrative that meddling execs killed Peaks. It was a bright star that just happened to burn out quick imo.

Mulholland Dr is my favourite film but I reckon I would have hated the TV series version of it.

Grayditch

Missing page from the diary. Carrie Page.

Random thought of the day.

briany

Alonso77 wrote: »

It may not be have been your type of show and whilst Ep 18 was a lot of things - predictable was not one of them

Well, ep. 18 featured things that have popped up in Lynch's work before - things he appears to have an enduring fascination with, like alternate versions of oneself and alternate realities that could be a dream. The same sort of confusion reigns in Inland Empire as it does in ep. 18 of Twin Peaks where a person's sense of self is totally deconstructed and subverted and you're left wondering just what you can cling on to. And the same idea of a dreamed reality exists in Mulholland Drive. And the same idea of a hallucinated character meant to symbolise a person's darker tendencies exists in Lost Highway.

So while some of these elements felt fresh in the context of Twin Peaks, perhaps, they're also well-established within Lynch's body of work. Ep. 18 may not have been predictable in the sense you knew everything that was going to happen, but perhaps predictable in the sense you knew it was going to be a mindf*ck, employing themes from Lynch's earlier work.

Achasanai

one armed dwarf wrote: »

I would have liked it a lot more where it shorter and leaner.

And it could have been so easily done, without taking away from some of the great moments of the series.

Case in point: Full songs played in the bar by famous singers. Not only was it pointless, and a waste of time, but it really didn't make sense with the whole ethos of the show. Related to this was the lack of original score, Angelo Badalamenti seemed to be non-existent in this series.

I think the whole thing (season 1, 2, and now 3) could have been told over one long season, or maybe 3 mini-seasons.

briany

Achasanai wrote: »

And it could have been so easily done, without taking away from some of the great moments of the series.

Case in point: Full songs played in the bar by famous singers. Not only was it pointless, and a waste of time, but it really didn't make sense with the whole ethos of the show. Related to this was the lack of original score, Angelo Badalamenti seemed to be non-existent in this series.

I think the whole thing (season 1, 2, and now 3) could have been told over one long season, or maybe 3 mini-seasons.

To me, the songs at the ends of the episodes gave us a little room to breathe and process the preceding 50+ minutes, and bookend that chapter of the story which was not really written as classic episodic TV, but a big long, long movie. That's not to say I thought they all thematically gelled with what we see, but at times they do, and when they do, they hit hard, with the best example being Eddie Vedder's performance in pt. 16.

But I think you're right when you say Badalamenti doesn't have nearly as great an impact on this series. He may have added some new incidental music, but nothing that eclipses the classic musical themes of the original run.

pumpkin4life

Achasanai wrote: »

And it could have been so easily done, without taking away from some of the great moments of the series.

Case in point: Full songs played in the bar by famous singers. Not only was it pointless, and a waste of time, but it really didn't make sense with the whole ethos of the show. Related to this was the lack of original score, Angelo Badalamenti seemed to be non-existent in this series.

I think the whole thing (season 1, 2, and now 3) could have been told over one long season, or maybe 3 mini-seasons.

I think it was a great choice for two reasons.

1: It acted, as another user said, a really good comedown from the insanity you just watched. Episode 8 anyone?

2: It all builds up to the Audrey dance moment, which is one of the creepiest mindfucks in the whole show, and works so well because it completely toys with your perception of the shows reality. You're expecting a comedown, you get Audrey losing her mind screaming into a mirror as a result. Even little things like The Nine Inch Nails? Weird no?

Also, the James roadhouse song was just hilarious out like. Grade A trolling from Lynch right there.

Also also some of the music is great. That Chromatics song is a lovely little tune. 10/10 would listen again.

Sad Professor

The more I think about it the more perfect the ending is. Cooper's "what year is this?" is the sort of thing someone might ask just before they realise they are dreaming and wake up. Time is different in dreams and clocks don't work properly. We see this earlier in the episode. His question triggers Laura/Carrie, who screams for the same reason Bill Pullman runs in Lost Highway and Naomi Watts kills herself in Mulholland Drive: Reality can be terrifying. Saving Laura from being murdered really isn't saving her at all. In a weird way death was her escape. She doesn't want to go home. Her home was the scene of the real crime and she’s not ready to face it. Bringing her there can only bring destruction. Which I think is what happens at the end. The lights go out with one last crackle of electricity and everything turns to darkness. The universe collapses. Then it starts all over again. An infinite loop. Maybe next time Laura (and Cooper) will be ready. Or maybe not.

pumpkin4life

Apparently the "Laura" call before the scream is Sarah's mother and comes from the pilot episode, when Laura's mother is calling her to wake up. It's an exact replica.

Also someone mentioned in the youtube comments that Leland's car from Twin Peaks the missing pieces is parked outside the house.

Like Mulholland Drive, that last episode looks to be some sort of dream of the actual events of the show. Laura wakes up, the show splits in two, or depending on your view of parallel universes, loops back on itself.

That also plays into the big duality theme of the third season.

ShaneU

pumpkin4life wrote: »

Apparently the "Laura" call before the scream is Sarah's mother and comes from the pilot episode, when Laura's mother is calling her to wake up. It's an exact replica.

We also heard it a few episodes back when Cole opens the door and sees a vision of Laura

johnny_ultimate

I adored how much 'space' the show had. It was the sheer luxury of the running time that allowed the indulgences, tangents and slow-build that defined the run. Whether that was a full-length song performance every episode, or an almost entire episode of abstract experimental filmmaking.

Game of Thrones is an entirely different show in far too many to count. But watching the latest season at the same time as The Return really brought the show's core flaw to the forefront - its all-consuming need to advance the plot. There was one moment in the last episode where everything slowed down for a minute or two, to simply deliver a scene built on atmosphere. It's probably the only one in the entire season.

Twin Peaks was the opposite, and magic because of it. Sure, not every subplot or idea worked as well as others, and as it transitioned to the final act in particular the pacing was a bit all over the place at times. And yet these were minor concerns when the show's go-for-broke approach delivered so many memorable, beautiful, terrifying, intriguing moments, characters & ideas. I can think of only a handful of shows so aware of the power of the slow-build or artistic indulgences - Louie, Mad Men, a few others. But Twin Peaks was next level, and essential because of it.

pickarooney

I watched all 18 hours and straight up did not understand or enjoy any of it. I need to address my pathological insistence on seeing things through which provide me with no pleasure.

oleras

pickarooney wrote: »

I watched all 18 hours and straight up did not understand or enjoy any of it. I need to address my pathological insistence on seeing things through which provide me with no pleasure.

Understand, like yourself, no. Enjoy ? Big time. Every scene with Lynch was mesmerising i felt, proper comedy gold. I am not sure he wrote it that way or it was just the way i approached it.

I enjoyed it without needing to know what would happen at the end.

Grayditch

I need to address my pathological insistence with Preacher. Thankfully I loved this.

pappyodaniel

Is it advisable to have watched the original Twin Peaks before watching this?

Grayditch

This season will make a lot more sense if you've seen Fire Walk With Me. But Fire Walk With Me will make no sense if you haven't seen the series. So, yes

maximus02

Grayditch wrote: »

This season will make a lot more sense if you've seen Fire Walk With Me. But Fire Walk With Me will make no sense if you haven't seen the series. So, yes

I have watched season 1, 2 and 3 and also Fire Walk With Me and I still don't understand what was going on.

Grayditch

It was the white horse.

RainMakerToo

Grayditch wrote: »

It was the white horse.

But the horse is the white of the eyes....

pumpkin4life

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

I adored how much 'space' the show had. It was the sheer luxury of the running time that allowed the indulgences, tangents and slow-build that defined the run. Whether that was a full-length song performance every episode, or an almost entire episode of abstract experimental filmmaking.

Game of Thrones is an entirely different show in far too many to count. But watching the latest season at the same time as The Return really brought the show's core flaw to the forefront - its all-consuming need to advance the plot. There was one moment in the last episode where everything slowed down for a minute or two, to simply deliver a scene built on atmosphere. It's probably the only one in the entire season.

Twin Peaks was the opposite, and magic because of it. Sure, not every subplot or idea worked as well as others, and as it transitioned to the final act in particular the pacing was a bit all over the place at times. And yet these were minor concerns when the show's go-for-broke approach delivered so many memorable, beautiful, terrifying, intriguing moments, characters & ideas. I can think of only a handful of shows so aware of the power of the slow-build or artistic indulgences - Louie, Mad Men, a few others. But Twin Peaks was next level, and essential because of it.

Wait, the pacing was off in the final act?

The last four episodes had excellent pacing and were the best of the lot by a stretch. The point of it was to lull you into a false sense of "everything will be wrapped up and there will be a happy ever after" kind of feel, right up till episode eighteen, where the foundation is kicked out from underneath you. It's way more effective that way. If anything its the episodes 9-12 which are the poor paced/weaker episodes of the whole series.

Also Game of Thrones, is a plot driven show anyway, unlike The Sopranos or Twin Peaks or Mad Men, so criticizing it for that is a bit naff.

Grayditch

RainMakerToo wrote: »

But the horse is the white of the eyes....

It is indeed.

pumpkin4life

pappyodaniel wrote: »

Is it advisable to have watched the original Twin Peaks before watching this?

Definitely.

The first season is brilliant and one of the finest stretches of tv a lad can watch.

The first half of the second season (up to episode 16) is brilliant, and then the next 10 episodes after that are dog bum. The final episode of season 2 is maybe the single best (or up there) hour of television you can watch in my opinion.

The prequel movie is ok. It's worth a watch but it aint exceptional.

The third season is brilliant and the best of the lot. Lynch's opus or whatever shìte yous want to call it.

johnny_ultimate

pumpkin4life wrote: »

Wait, the pacing was off in the final act?

Nope, final few episodes were terrific - it was the few hours putting the pieces in play for them that I could have seen losing some people pacing-wise

(I should stress I loved pretty much every minute of the run in spite of... sorry, because of the indulgences)

briany

Doubly confused about the two Mr. C death scenes, now.

Obviously the Woodsmen had a way to revive Mr. C, but I'm having trouble deciphering what this would have been. For some reason, it involved freeing the BOB 'orb' inside of him. When we see the full extent of the ritual, the second time it happens, the orb attacks Dale and Freddie, and is ultimately destroyed. What it did after Ray got the hell out of there that first time is a total mystery, and I don't know how it relates to Mr. C's survival. Did it perhaps float around and draw energy from a power line, seeing as we know that electricity is a favoured medium of the Lodge spirits, and then dive back into Mr. C, resurrecting him?

And did others possessed by BOB get a similar rock orb in their tummy, like Leland, for example?

Sad Professor

briany wrote: »

Doubly confused about the two Mr. C death scenes, now.

Obviously the Woodsmen had a way to revive Mr. C, but I'm having trouble deciphering what this would have been. For some reason, it involved freeing the BOB 'orb' inside of him. When we see the full extent of the ritual, the second time it happens, the orb attacks Dale and Freddie, and is ultimately destroyed. What it did after Ray got the hell out of there that first time is a total mystery, and I don't know how it relates to Mr. C's survival. Did it perhaps float around and draw energy from a power line, seeing as we know that electricity is a favoured medium of the Lodge spirits, and then dive back into Mr. C, resurrecting him?

My interpretation is that Mr C didn't really die the first time. The Woodsmen succeeded in saving him and thus Bob never fully leaves him. Where as the second time they can't do anything for him, he dies and Bob is forced out.

And did others possessed by BOB get a similar rock orb in their tummy, like Leland, for example?

Perhaps. As I recall, we never actually see Bob leave Leland.

Speaking of which, the dead guy in Carrie's house kinda looks like Bob. And he has a bulging stomach presumedly from a gunshot wound.

riffmongous

pickarooney wrote: »

I watched all 18 hours and straight up did not understand or enjoy any of it. I need to address my pathological insistence on seeing things through which provide me with no pleasure.

I gave up a long time ago and looking back now I'm really glad, but also very disappointed, that I didn't spend another minute watching it. It just never clicked with me. I still enjoyed reading this thread and fan theories, reviews etc, but the show itself holds no interest for me anymore beyond the lore.

Achasanai

pumpkin4life wrote: »

Also also some of the music is great. That Chromatics song is a lovely little tune. 10/10 would listen again.

I'm not doubting that some of the songs were great. But famous singers doing cameos and playing entire songs (the majority of the earlier ones being people or bands heavily influenced by Badalementi)? Nope. It jarred and took me out of the experience of Twin Peaks.

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

I adored how much 'space' the show had. It was the sheer luxury of the running time that allowed the indulgences, tangents and slow-build that defined the run. Whether that was a full-length song performance every episode, or an almost entire episode of abstract experimental filmmaking.

Luxury and indulgence. I would agree with that.

buried

I loved the fact there was no explanations to the vast majority of this great work. I'm sick of being told whats exactly what in sequential art creations and stories in films and TV. Where everything is laid out and explained to you like a infantile sketch on bosco's sesame street. Look at that recent Alien Covenant film, everything explained, all the mystery destroyed and whats the end result? The thing is an absolute soulless piece of useless muck. At least Lynch, Frost and Showtime have the guts to create something challenging and forward pushing, where explanations aren't dished out like bland maths equations. Creating art for the audience where there is room left for mysteries to remain hidden or possibilities for the audience to participate and create their very own theories and further myths from it, that's what real art is. That's what this brilliant new series is to me.

It really is the closest thing I've ever experienced to taking part in reading a book or getting lost in some music album. There are parts in this series, where although wierd and strange, I could relate to these wierd and strange scenes. It's like that scene with Bobby outside the RR after the gunshot and he encounters the honking car with the two in it. A lot of times wierd and strange things like that will suddenly burst into your own life, you'll get no warning, no explanation and no resolution either! Things like that will just happen, and then they'll be gone as quick as they came! The whole show had moments and pieces like that. It was so cool, so brilliant and really refreshing to watch and enjoy!
Does anyone have any clue when the blu-rays might be released please? Can find nothing online

briany

Regarding Sarah Palmer/Judy - The show infers pretty strongly that Sarah is host to Judy, but misses out on a good story in explaining a bit more of how that came about. Did this occur in the years between 1989 and 2014, or was she possessed by Judy all along?

But I would have thought that Judy was 'The Experiment'/'Mother' - the thing you see attacking the couple and birthing BOB, and if this is the case, it seems like a being who was a step above possessing people in order to influence events in the world. The possibility also exists that Judy is something else entirely. The second possibility, I don't know if I like, because that's like saying, "Well, here's this other thing, in case the Black Lodge wasn't enough of a negative force already."

If the first theory is the case, that Judy/Mother/The Experiment are the same things, then Mr. C' search for Judy makes me wonder. BOB would have been birthed by Judy, and inhabiting Mr. C, and you'd think the conscious symbiotic relationship that Mr. C and BOB had would have imparted some knowledge of who or what Judy was.

one armed dwarf

buried wrote: »

I loved the fact there was no explanations to the vast majority of this great work. I'm sick of being told whats exactly what in sequential art creations and stories in films and TV. Where everything is laid out and explained to you like a infantile sketch on bosco's sesame street. Look at that recent Alien Covenant film, everything explained, all the mystery destroyed and whats the end result? The thing is an absolute soulless piece of useless muck. At least Lynch, Frost and Showtime have the guts to create something challenging and forward pushing, where explanations aren't dished out like bland maths equations. Creating art for the audience where there is room left for mysteries to remain hidden or possibilities for the audience to participate and create their very own theories and further myths from it, that's what real art is. That's what this brilliant new series is to me.

It really is the closest thing I've ever experienced to taking part in reading a book or getting lost in some music album. There are parts in this series, where although wierd and strange, I could relate to these wierd and strange scenes. It's like that scene with Bobby outside the RR after the gunshot and he encounters the honking car with the two in it. A lot of times wierd and strange things like that will suddenly burst into your own life, you'll get no warning, no explanation and no resolution either! Things like that will just happen, and then they'll be gone as quick as they came! The whole show had moments and pieces like that. It was so cool, so brilliant and really refreshing to watch and enjoy!
Does anyone have any clue when the blu-rays might be released please? Can find nothing online

My struggle with the new Twin Peaks is that Lynch has provided a visual framework in it which is so broad and loose compared with anything he has done previously that it threatens to undermine any attempt to come to a general consensus of what he is trying to do here. Lynch's works are exciting because you feel even amidst all the weird **** you stand a chance of pinning some of it down and giving it meaning, even if it sometimes isn't intended to mean anything at all. But there's so much 'stuff' in The Return that it all just becomes an obscure mess (imo) and any effort spent watching feels like a waste.

Even his most impenetrable works like Inland Empire or Lost Highway lend themselves reasonably well to some sort of analysis but a lot of the time in Twin Peaks I'm left wondering does any of it mean anything and does it even matter? I feel like there's no real pleasure in thinking about what Twin Peaks is now whereas that wasn't the case when its world was smaller and less busy.

I'm fine with things being vague but when everything ends in an ellipsis then I'm not sure that it's about anything at all. For this reason The Return fails for me. I will still enjoy the original series and his movies.

buried

one armed dwarf wrote: »

My struggle with the new Twin Peaks is that Lynch has provided a visual framework in it which is so broad and loose compared with anything he has done previously that it threatens to undermine any attempt to come to a general consensus of what he is trying to do here. Lynch's works are exciting because you feel even amidst all the weird **** you stand a chance of pinning some of it down and giving it meaning, even if it sometimes isn't intended to mean anything at all. But there's so much 'stuff' in The Return that it all just becomes an obscure mess (imo) and any effort spent watching feels like a waste.

Even his most impenetrable works like Inland Empire or Lost Highway lend themselves reasonably well to some sort of analysis but a lot of the time in Twin Peaks I'm left wondering does any of it mean anything and does it even matter? I feel like there's no real pleasure in thinking about what Twin Peaks is now whereas that wasn't the case when its world was smaller and less busy.

I'm fine with things being vague but when everything ends in an ellipsis then I'm not sure that it's about anything at all. For this reason The Return fails for me. I will still enjoy the original series and his movies.

That's a pity really, especially that bolded part, but, in fairness, fair enough! Yeah, see that's where myself and yourself will probably be in our own different lodges as the first two season's I did enjoy, but not as much as this one!
This season has opened up so many interesting themes and spectrum's of further interest for me it's become like a fantastic brochure or catalogue for further knowledge to be gained away from the actual show.
That 8th episode, that just blew me away. I've spent the last few weeks getting books on the Trinity test and that whole subject in particular and found some real fascinating stuff and books concerning the bomb, theories (which I think Lynch was showcasing in that episode) that the test could rip open the space time, unleash forces outside the control of the ruling principles of consciousness, occult themes concerning the bomb, all really fascinating and really enjoyable and that episode and its images, that was the catalyst or spark to get me into this sort of subject!
There are other themes it has also brought up that I want to learn about in time. That's where the internet is great for this as the fans can discuss the themes of interest with each other. The vagueness has created this sort of mystery we can all discuss and dissect and learn new themes and subjects Lynch has actually used in the creation of the show! I think it's absolutely brilliant.

Vincent Vega

Episodes 17 & 18 of ‘Twin Peaks: the Return’ are meant to be watched in sync

Anybody tried this yet?

Somebody on reddit says in 18 when carrie asks if theyre being followed on the road, phillip jeffries answers 'there might be someone' in 17.

oleras

Vincent Vega wrote: »

Episodes 17 & 18 of ‘Twin Peaks: the Return’ are meant to be watched in sync

Anybody tried this yet?

Somebody on reddit says in 18 when carrie asks if theyre being followed on the road, phillip jeffries answers 'there might be someone' in 17.

Wow, no wonder it seemed to finish @ 17. Fantastic.

pumpkin4life

So for the ending...

First, what is Laura Palmer?

Laura Palmer is a damaged wan, at the core of it all. She was a coked up prostitute who manipulated people around her for sex, money and drugs. She manipulated Bobby for coke and laughed at him murdering the guy, James for sympathy and being not that cool, Ben Horne and the recluse flower guy for attention.

Cooper 100% successfully saves at the end of episode 17 her life and bingo, we're into a new timeline. We end up in a dimension where for Cooper none of the events of the original take place, yet he has some knowledge of proceeding events. Fry becomes his own grandfather in Futurama is sort of what happened here.

Coopers a different person because he's experienced different things throughout his life as a result of this however. This is the Diane Richard sex scene point of view thing. He doesn't meet Annie, get involved in the town, all of that. Remember, he cuckolded Windom Earle. The diner scene and the Diane face scene were to show this. This is Cooper shaped by different events in a different timeline, not the original Twin Peaks pre Black Lodge Cooper.

Laura continues on her path of self destruction that was cut short with her original murder and murders that guy in the flat. You want a happy ending?
You get a self destructive bitch who was involved in drugs, the criminal underworld at 16 years of old, who runs from it. There's a warrant out for Laura Palmer. Obviously she's fecked, so she goes/has to go with Cooper. They go to the house. We don't know what happened with Bob or the parents either so their entire timeline changes as well.

What year is this? - Cooper realizing what he has done and that he did it for his own selfish desires.

The house triggers off a memory of Laura in her head, mainly of her mother calling her to get up in the morning by association.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissociation_(psychology)

Laura remembers and gets this flood of memories. She screams.

The house losing the lights could be seen as her perception of reality collapsing and her blacking out. That last scene, look at the POV shots that keep switching between her and Cooper. She faints. It's like the Sopranos ending in that way.

The darkness of the ending is that Laura's life was a bigger tragedy than her death.

briany

pumpkin4life wrote: »

So for the ending...

First, what is Laura Palmer?

Laura Palmer is a damaged wan, at the core of it all. She was a coked up prostitute who manipulated people around her for sex, money and drugs. She manipulated Bobby for coke and laughed at him murdering the guy, James for sympathy and being not that cool, Ben Horne and the recluse flower guy for attention.

The series seems to give the impression that Laura is an almost messianic figure, given to humanity as a sort of sacrifice. We see this more or less confirmed when Dido puts the Laura orb into that chute in reaction to witnessing BOB being created. At the very least, it heavily implies the two are fated to meet, to cancel each other out, in some sort of cosmic plan of keeping good and evil in balance.

But this is a good example of series 3 retconning events in S1 & 2, and FWWM, because Leland/BOB had previously killed Teresa Banks, and BOB also says, 'I will kill again...', which he does. It makes BOB seem much more like a deranged killer rather than an agent specifically sent to destroy Laura, but even beyond that it doesn't make much sense to wait and kill Laura in her late teens rather than just do it when she was little, if that was indeed his task as set by Judy.

Galwayguy35

Very disappointed in that ending especially as I started to actually get into the series after the rubbish that was the first 8 episodes.

At least in the first to series we got answers at the end but with this one we found absolutely nothing at the end.

Sure it was probably great for die hard fans of Lynch but the rest of us were left very deflated.

Grayditch

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Very disappointed in that ending especially as I started to actually get into the series after the rubbish that was the first 8 episodes.

As in, including the 8th? I thought it was one of the best episodes of anything I've ever seen on TV.

Sad Professor

After Cooper goes back in time and saves Laura and then ends up in the red room, I assume that when he exits it is to the original timeline in which Laura died, hence why Diane is waiting for him as planned. Then when Cooper and Diane travel over they believe they are headed to the alternate timeline in which Laura was saved but disappeared. This explains why Cooper is confused about Laura being Carrie and why he asks about the previous owners of the Palmer house as if expecting to hear that it was Sarah and Leland. He expects things to be different but not that different. So when he asks “what year is this?” at the end it’s out of sense of confusion. He thought he was in an alternate timeline in which Laura disappeared rather than a parallel universe in which she is someone else entirely.

There appears to have been two transitions. The first one happened when Cooper and Diane drive down the road with the power lines. This was planned. But then there’s another one that night when they have sex. It’s not clear to me whether that was planned as well. The next morning Cooper wakes up in a different motel and Diane (now Linda) has left a note in which she calls him Richard. Cooper is confused by this and while he continues to believe he is Dale Cooper there’s obviously been a change in him, possibly from the day before. Now the Fireman had warned him at the beginning to remember Richard and Linda, yet it would appear that he didn’t.

Thoughts?

briany

Sad Professor wrote: »

After Cooper goes back in time and saves Laura and then ends up in the red room, I assume that when he exits it is to the original timeline in which Laura died, hence why Diane is waiting for him as planned. Then when Cooper and Diane travel over they believe they are headed to the alternate timeline in which Laura was saved but disappeared. This explains why Cooper is confused about Laura being Carrie and why he asks about the previous owners of the Palmer house as if expecting to hear that it was Sarah and Leland. He expects things to be different but not that different. So when he asks “what year is this?” at the end it’s out of sense of confusion. He thought he was in an alternate timeline in which Laura disappeared rather than a parallel universe in which she is someone else entirely.

There appears to have been two transitions. The first one happened when Cooper and Diane drive down the road with the power lines. This was planned. But then there’s another one that night when they have sex. It’s not clear to me whether that was planned as well. The next morning Cooper wakes up in a different motel and Diane (now Linda) has left a note in which she calls him Richard. Cooper is confused by this and while he continues to believe he is Dale Cooper there’s obviously been a change in him, possibly from the day before. Now the Fireman had warned him at the beginning to remember Richard and Linda, yet it would appear that he didn’t.

Thoughts?

I knew something was up with him the minute he put those guns in the deep fat fryer.

One thing, though - He goes back in time and finds Laura and starts leading her into the woods towards the golden pool. Then we see Laura's body disappear from the lakeside. OK, so this means that Laura did not die, but she still disappears. If I were Cooper, at the point I got back to the current day with Diane waiting outside the Lodge, I'd think 'Hmm. Not too sure what happened back there, but better quickly nip round the Palmer house and see if Laura made it, before I go traipsing into another reality, because that's the kind of risk I don't want to take unless I really have to.'

buried

I've got thoughts on all of that last episode, but right now, as of this moment, trying to frame them into a coherent discussion on a internet forum would be a bit too much for my brain, so, trying to share them with the rest of ye would be a totally pointless excercise.
The fact Lynch used the actual lady from the family that currently lives in our actual reality in that "Twin Peaks" world of the Palmer household for those last scene's of the series is a serious indication of the whole message he was trying to convey with this entire series and the work, it's just that I can't put my finger on it just yet. I'm just really enjoying all of the thoughts and discussion that have followed from it at the moment, not many TV programs I have watched in the last few years have done that. But that indication of reality using that Lady and her actual gaff is a serious tell IMO

briany

buried wrote: »

I've got thoughts on all of that last episode, but right now, as of this moment, trying to frame them into a coherent discussion on a internet forum would be a bit too much for my brain, so, trying to share them with the rest of ye would be a totally pointless excercise.
The fact Lynch used the actual lady from the family that currently lives in our actual reality in that "Twin Peaks" world of the Palmer household for those last scene's of the series is a serious indication of the whole message he was trying to convey with this entire series and the work, it's just that I can't put my finger on it just yet. I'm just really enjoying all of the thoughts and discussion that have followed from it at the moment, not many TV programs I have watched in the last few years have done that. But that indication of reality using that Lady and her actual gaff is a serious tell IMO

Except she was sold the house by a character on the show - Mrs. Chalfont, so we may be reading too much into using the actual owner of the house as a commentary on fiction vs. reality. Could have just been it was easier, and the woman had a limited background in theatre so she could deliver her lines decently.

buried

briany wrote: »

Except she was sold the house by a character on the show - Mrs. Chalfont, so we may be reading too much into using the actual owner of the house as a commentary on fiction vs. reality. Could have just been it was easier, and the woman had a limited background in theatre so she could deliver her lines decently.

Sure he could have just used anyone then briany! I dunno, the fact that he did use that particular lady for that last absolutely brilliant scene, it's just really playing on my mind, I keep watching it. There is something in it!

Sad Professor

Earlier in the thread I suggested that good Cooper was too virtuous to be a real person and I still think there's something to that. Richard is probably much closer to what Cooper would be like in the real world. In fact, everything about Judy's world felt more real and closer to the truth. Not reality per se, but a level closer to it. I like the idea that maybe Carrie is the dreamer and Laura was her fantasy - the perfect girl with the perfect family in the perfect little town. At least at first. But like Bill Pullman's fantasy reality in Lost Highway, bit by bit the reality of her own life invaded the dream and Laura started to suffer the same abuse and engage in the same destructive behaviour as Carrie. Cooper is one of the great positive forces at work in this world, trying to uncover the truth and get her to wake up to who she really is. But since he himself doesn’t know truth and doesn’t know what she will wake up to, there’s also tremendous folly in what he’s doing. There also negative forces trying to, in their own way, protect her from the truth and keep her in the dreamworld.

briany

Didn't Dallas do the whole, 'it was all a dream...' thing back in '86?

Sad Professor

briany wrote: »

Didn't Dallas do the whole, 'it was all a dream...' thing back in '86?

Yeah but I don't think there is a "reality". Just different layers of the same dream. Some of these layers may be closer to truth, but since everything is taking place in the mind of the dreamer, we can never know for certain. That's the point, even they don't know.

buried

briany wrote: »

Didn't Dallas do the whole, 'it was all a dream...' thing back in '86?

Yeah, but that is the thing, the whole thing is a dream, the whole thing is a made up story, just like 'Dallas'. The differince is, this work included elements that went beyond the whole soap opera shtick that was prevailent in the likes of 'Dallas' and the original series. The fact that so many fans have held the first two seasons in such high regard without the actual elements Lynch wanted to showcase from the get go, makes this one stand out. This series is Lynch's "revenge" IMO. He wanted to showcase humanity's ignorance and culpability of extreme chaos and evil to develop, episode 8 of this season plainly shows that, but 30 years ago, he wasn't allowed to do any of that. That would be too 'far out', the original series proved that by the network dictating to him what they wanted him to do. The story that he, as a storyteller and artist, wanted to do was not allowed by the money men. By doing this season, he has blasted all of that right in the ass. The whole thing may be a dream, a fantasy, and it is, but the point I honestly think Lynch is trying to make is this - fantasy can only exist alongside reality to make it work/not work and reality can only exist alongside fantasy for REALITY to work/not work also. That's my base understanding of all of this. I may not have stated it too well, but that's my general jist of what I think Lynch is trying to convey at the heart of the story. That's why so many can relate to it. It's absolutely fascinating to me anyways. It unleashes thoughts and further realms of understanding that the like's of Dallas could never do, that is this works testament, to me anyways.

briany

One thing I'm surprised is not discussed more is the fact that they recast pretty much every Lodge denizen using the same actor (exceptions to this have been well-noted). Recasting actors in the same role is not usually remarkable, except in this case you're getting someone, now 25 years older, to play a spirit, and spirits don't traditionally age.

Knowing that Lynch is big on subtext, symbolism and detail, I can't think this is simply a 'feck it...' decision, but it has huge implications for the nature of the beings in the Lodges. It means they're mortal, in other words. It means they can die. It could mean they're less spirits and more people, like us, who perhaps live in a reality dominated by different rules but sharing some commonalities with us, all the same. If you take up the dream layer viewpoint, they may be one dream higher.

Jobs OXO

What was the significance of the wine drinking ?

johnny_ultimate

For the physical media enthusiasts (US I presume but surely on the way here):

https://twitter.com/david_lynch/status/908382492280840192

buried

HelloooOOOOOOOoooooooo!!