Ben Affleck vs. Sam Harris & Bill Maher on Islam

Dave!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XduMMteTEbc

Some of you may have seen this floating about since yesterday. There has been a pretty strong reaction to this discussion by lots of people online. On Twitter at least it seems to be overwhelmingly in support of Affleck and nods of approval at his calling Harris a racist.

Anyone had any thoughts on it?

I think Affleck let himself down here, because he's a pretty smart and articulate guy, but in this case he mostly just shouted the others down and caricatured Harris' arguments, which are a lot more nuanced than Affleck's glib and lazy racial references suggest.

Mr. Incognito

Two morons with ill informed opinions say moronic ill informed things

/close thread

The One Doctor

Meh. Dumb actors giving dumb opinions. Big deal.

Karl Stein

Harris attributes anti-equality views to Islam. There are a lot of people from his own country who hold similar views about homosexuals, women, elves, minorities etc and I doubt he attributes their views to Christianity.

My name is URL

Karl Stein wrote: »

Harris attributes anti-equality views to Islam. There are a lot of people from his own country who hold similar views about homosexuals, women, elves, minorities etc and I doubt he attributes their views to Christianity.

He probably would to be fair. He'd never attribute anything bad to Judaism or Zionism though. He regularly defends Israel and its actions despite the glaring hypocrisy of it

http://www.donotlink.com/aqdJ

Nodin

Maher seems the best way to compete with right wing commentators is to mirror them. He's badly mistaken. Never had time for Harris and theres nothing here to induce me to change my mind.

bnt

Surprised to see this mentioned here. I occasionally hear it said that "Atheists never criticise Islam": such folks have clearly never heard of Maher or Harris, and as for poor Ben, thinking he was on just to promote his latest movie ... whoops!

Dave!

Karl Stein wrote: »

Harris attributes anti-equality views to Islam. There are a lot of people from his own country who hold similar views about homosexuals, women, elves, minorities etc and I doubt he attributes their views to Christianity.

He does – on homosexuals, women, abortion, stem cells, etc.

http://www.samharris.org/site/full_text/holy-terror

It appears that President Bush and the Republicans in the Senate have failed (for the moment) to bring the U.S. Constitution into greater conformity with Leviticus and the writings of St. Paul—which are, respectively, the sections of the Old and New Testaments that justify Christian concerns about gay marriage. Reading these documents, one discovers that the Creator of the universe does not approve of homosexuality. In fact, his instructions on the subject go far beyond a mere prohibition of gay marriage. According to God, homosexuals must be put to death. God himself says so in Leviticus (20:13), and St. Paul says it in Romans (1: 24-32). God also instructs us to murder people who work on the Sabbath, along with adulterers and children who curse their parents. Congress might also want to reconsider the 13th Amendment, because the biblical God clearly expects us to keep slaves. He merely admonishes us not to beat them too severely (Exodus 21). God’s wisdom on this subject can be distilled to a single precept: don’t injure their eyes or their teeth, because then you have to set them free.

There is clearly a problem with using scripture to decide social policy in the 21st century. The Bible, it seems certain, was written by men and women who thought the earth was flat and who would have considered a wheelbarrow a breathtaking example of emerging technology. Are its teachings applicable to the challenges we now face as a global civilization? Consider the subject of stem-cell research. Many people of faith believe that three-day-old embryos – which are collections of 150 cells—are fully endowed with human souls and, therefore, must be protected as persons. But if we know anything at all about the neurology of sensory perception, we know that there is no reason to believe that embryos at this stage of development have the capacity to sense pain, to suffer, or to experience the loss of life in any way at all (there are, for comparison’s sake, 100,000 cells in the brain of a fly). These facts notwithstanding, our President and our leaders in Congress have decided to put the rights of undifferentiated cells before those of men and women suffering from spinal cord injuries, full-body burns, diabetes, and Parkinson’s disease.

http://www.samharris.org/site/full_text/gods-hostages

Some of this sexist evil probably predates religion and can be ascribed to our biology, but there is no question that religion promulgates and renders sacrosanct attitudes toward women that would be unseemly in a brachiating ape.
While man was made in the image of God, the prevailing view under Judaism, Christianity, and Islam is that woman was made in the image of man. Her humanity, therefore, is derivative, contingent, ersatz (Gen: 2-21-22 Koran 4:1; 39.6; 7.189). Of all the animals, woman was the last to be made but the first to sin (Gen 3:12). The Old Testament puts the monetary value of a woman’s life at one-half to two-thirds that of a man’s (Leviticus 27). The Koran elaborates: it requires the testimony of two women to offset that of one man (2:282) and every girl deserves exactly one-half her brother’s share of inheritance (4:11). God suggests in his tenth commandment that the woman next door is your neighbor’s material possession which, along with his house, slaves and oxen, must not be coveted (Exodus 20:17); Deuteronomy 5:21).

The God of Abraham has made it perfectly clear that a woman is expected to live in subjugation to her father until the moment she is pressed into connubial service to her husband. As St. Paul put it: “Wives, be subject to your husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. As the church is subject to Christ, so let wives also be subject in everything to their husbands.” (Ephesians 5:22-24). The Koran delivers the same message, and recommends that disobedient wives be whipped (4:34). The suppression of women under Islam achieved hideous precision through the writings of Al-Ghazali (1058-1111), perhaps the most influential Muslim since Muhammad:

Karl Stein

Dave! wrote: »

He does – on homosexuals, women, abortion, stem cells, etc.

So are we talking about people with 'conservative' views rather than those who subscribe to various religious doctrines?

tastyt

Affleck should stick to being a bad actor. So easy for him in his cocoon of luxury and security to criticise people for saying something wrong is actually wrong. Hippie political views

Dave!

Karl Stein wrote: »

So are we talking about people with 'conservative' views rather than those who subscribe to various religious doctrines?

Not sure I follow you – but I don't think he says that religion is the only reason that people can have ****ty morals.

Awkward Badger

Affleck seems to be too worked up and just "Knows he's right" without making any real coherent argument.

Harris on the other hand makes a good point, although given his previous defence of Israeli killing of innocent Palestinians I'd take whatever he has to say on Islam being bad because they believe death is an appropriate response for whatever its hard to take it seriously.

Dave!

tastyt wrote: »

Affleck should stick to being a bad actor. So easy for him in his cocoon of luxury and security to criticise people for saying something wrong is actually wrong. Hippie political views

I quite like Affleck, but it's funny in this case that he perfectly exemplified the point that Harris was making – that there's a lack of willingness to speak honestly about the doctrine of Islam; that you're immediately called an Islamophobe. Within minutes, Affleck had called Harris a racist and compared it to anti-Semitic and African-American stereotypes.

donvito99

tastyt wrote: »

Affleck should stick to being a bad actor. So easy for him in his cocoon of luxury and security to criticise people for saying something wrong is actually wrong. Hippie political views

He was sitting in the room same as the others. He made his feelings known to their faces. He would have been well aware that he'd receive criticism the reasons you mention from people like yourself.

But he still went and did it, to me it says a lot for him. Fair fúcks to him is what I say.

Nodin

Dave! wrote: »

I quite like Affleck, but it's funny in this case that he perfectly exemplified the point that Harris was making – that there's a lack of willingness to speak honestly about the doctrine of Islam; that you're immediately called an Islamophobe. Within minutes, Affleck had called Harris a racist and compared it to anti-Semitic and African-American stereotypes.

Whatever about he said in that interview, Harris' statements do stereotype the muslim population, particularily in relation to his blind spot.

we'llallhavetea

weh weh weh, these "debates" happen all the time. throw in a famous actor and everyone wants to know about it.

Dave!

Nodin wrote: »

Whatever about he said in that interview, Harris' statements do stereotype the muslim population, particularily in relation to his blind spot.

In what sense does he stereotype? He's pretty specific in his criticisms of extremists, and he supports his contentions about how widespread belief in violent doctrines is; he is also at pains to point out that there are hundreds of millions of moderate Muslims who are appalled by what ISIS is doing, and he says that these are the people who need to be supported and defended and encouraged with their attempts at reform. He has also written passionately before about how it is in fact Muslims themselves—particularly women—who suffer the most at the hands of these tyrants.

CaptainInsano

donvito99 wrote: »

He was sitting in the room same as the others. He made his feelings known to their faces. He would have been well aware that he'd receive criticism the reasons you mention from people like yourself.

But he still went and did it, to me it says a lot for him. Fair fúcks to him is what I say.

Yeah fair play for speaking his mind but judging by that video he didn't even know what his mind was. Half of what was said to him went over his head.
He could probably doing with educating himself more before going and shouting everyone down on TV.

Billy86

Harris' breakdown assessment has some very "strange" parts. Like mentioning how Islamisation want to "work within the system to use democracy against itself" and then going on to say that Conservative Muslims are different because they do not favour radicalism such as ISIS - by extension labelling that second 'circle' as being radicals in fill support of ISIS, also hunting at 78% of British Muslims being of this sort. He then stops there instead of going into any more moderate or liberal branches of Islam, and then interrupts the other guy to say he thinks the fundamentalists are a huge chunk of Islam.

Michael Steele makes a great point about Muslims speaking out about more oppression regimes and such not getting media coverage because of doesn't fit into our stereotypes. Boll Mayer's response? "that's because they are afraid to speak out" - which makes literally no sense when talking about people who ARE speaking out.

Affect had some good points to make but wasn't doing a great job making a lot of them. Bill Mayer's isn't exactly worth listening to when it comes to religion - he is a massive hypocrite and loves to ignore Israel's actions in the region while yapping on about Muslim countries.

Personally I'm not a fan of any organised religious - on a smaller scale it does help a good few people and reform a good few criminals, alcoholics and drug addicts (all religions, that is) but it's just not worth the hassle in the grander scheme of things and can often be used to very negative (and powerful) effect... again all religions. But there is also a LOT of skewed representation in the media.

Diabhal Beag

Whenever a debate video has the word "owned" in it I stay well away.

Its Only Ray Parlour

Affleck looks like he's on coke. He lost the debate when he used the racist word.

Billy86

Diabhal Beag wrote: »

Whenever a debate video has the word "owned" in it I stay well away.

Your loss, Mayer makes a fool of himself. But that's not too rare for him when Israel and Judaism get involved.

jank

Karl Stein wrote: »

Harris attributes anti-equality views to Islam. There are a lot of people from his own country who hold similar views about homosexuals, women, elves, minorities etc and I doubt he attributes their views to Christianity.

You may have a point if Christian laws ran the United States. Islam or Sharia Laws run or at least is recognisable in over 50 countries.

jank

I am getting sick of this trend in the left which reflexively excuses grotesque ideologies simply because they are practiced by non whites or are official opponents of the American government.

porsche959

The One Doctor wrote: »

Meh. Dumb actors giving dumb opinions. Big deal.

I know next to nothing about Ben Affleck but he comes across as statesmanlike here.

All in all an interesting debate

Nodin

Dave! wrote: »

In what sense does he stereotype? He's pretty specific in his criticisms of extremists, and he supports his contentions about how widespread belief in violent doctrines is; he is also at pains to point out that there are hundreds of millions of moderate Muslims who are appalled by what ISIS is doing, and he says that these are the people who need to be supported and defended and encouraged with their attempts at reform. He has also written passionately before about how it is in fact Muslims themselves—particularly women—who suffer the most at the hands of these tyrants.

He does in his hole. Get him to defend Israel and its every miserable cliché and then some.

jank

26 posts in and Israel is mentioned. Well done lads, well done.

Dave!

Nodin wrote: »

He does in his hole. Get him to defend Israel and its every miserable cliché and then some.

Ah. Touché.

Lapin

jank wrote: »

26 posts in and Israel is mentioned. Well done lads, well done.

Interesting how the number 26 preceeds the numbers 5, 19 and 22 in Jank Land.

FlashR2D2

People are interested in what famous people have to say. That's what I got from this.

The_Captain

tastyt wrote: »

Affleck should stick to being a bad actor

The dumbest thing said in a thread full of people saying dumb things

bnt

I'd be wary of calling Ben Affleck a "dumb actor". He had an Oscar on his mantelpiece for Best Screenplay (with Matt Damon for Good Will Hunting) before he made any impact as an actor, and he's now a respected director (e.g. Argo). But in this case he didn't get the nuances of the argument that was going on, and jumped in with foot in mouth. Islam is not a race, Ben ...

FTA69

As someone who works pretty much exclusively with Muslims, I can say with some authority that there is indeed a tendency within the Islamic world to be quite stringently opposed to things such as homosexuality as well as a fairly hefty streak of sexism. I see it on a weekly basis in work. Similarly, intolerance such as this is engrained within the faith of Islam, it's outlined pretty clearly in the Qu'ran. (Similarly that's also the case within Christianity, Judaism and Hinduism as well in many respects.)

That having been said, it's important to realise that the Islamic world is huge and diverse, and not everybody thinks and acts the same way or has the same interpretation of things. The people I work with are of a left wing persuasion and have no problem working within the values of our organisation. In the past year we have organised various women's groups, women's education classes and also brought people into progressive campaigns on everything from housing to the NHS.

Like all major religions, it has pretty massive flaws (and ultimately it's bullsh*t) but I can't agree with the notion that Muslims as a group are a dangerous bunch of intolerant fanatics but that certainly isn't the case in my experience.

take everything

Only thing good I can say about Ben in that clip is he has a great head of hair on him.

take everything

The weirdest thing about that video may be that the guy to Ben's immediate right is a former chair of the Republican National Committee.

suicide_circus

Taco flavoured kiss for my Ben....

Frank Lee Midere

Karl Stein wrote: »

Harris attributes anti-equality views to Islam. There are a lot of people from his own country who hold similar views about homosexuals, women, elves, minorities etc and I doubt he attributes their views to Christianity.

Lol. The editor of Letters to a Christian Nation?
(from http://www.samharris.org/letter-to-a-christian-nation)

Forty-four percent of the American population is convinced that Jesus will return to judge the living and the dead sometime in the next fifty years. According to the most common interpretation of biblical prophecy, Jesus will return only after things have gone horribly awry here on earth. It is, therefore, not an exaggeration to say that if the city of New York were suddenly replaced by a ball of fire, some significant percentage of the American population would see a silver lining in the subsequent mushroom cloud, as it would suggest to them that the best thing that is ever going to happen was about to happen—the return of Christ. It should be blindingly obvious that beliefs of this sort will do little to help us create a durable future for ourselves—socially, economically, environmentally, or geopolitically. Imagine the consequences if any significant component of the U.S. government actually believed that the world was about to end and that its ending would be glorious. The fact that nearly half of the American population apparently believes this, purely on the basis of religious dogma, should be considered a moral and intellectual emergency.The book you are about to read is my response to this emergency...

I would have thought that that was how most people would have known Harris.

He might be a Jewish tribalist, but he isn't a Christian one.

jank

bnt wrote: »

I'd be wary of calling Ben Affleck a "dumb actor". He had an Oscar on his mantelpiece for Best Screenplay (with Matt Damon for Good Will Hunting) before he made any impact as an actor, and he's now a respected director (e.g. Argo). But in this case he didn't get the nuances of the argument that was going on, and jumped in with foot in mouth. Islam is not a race, Ben ...

Saying that something is 'racist' is often the defacto position a liberal takes when they don't want to argue a position. It's the lazy way out.

FTA69

Islamophobia and racism are often bedfellows and are usually propagated by the same type of person on the right. However, what Maher and Harris were doing were criticising Islam as a faith; that might be many things but it isn't racist.

Playboy

FTA69 wrote: »

Islamophobia and racism are often bedfellows and are usually propagated by the same type of person on the right. However, what Maher and Harris were doing were criticising Islam as a faith; that might be many things but it isn't racist.

I think its racist if criticism of the faith is an underhand way of criticising and stereotyping the people who believe in it. We could criticise Judaism and Christianity in the same way, they have just as many barmy bad ideas that belong in the past as Islam does. The problem is is that a lot Christians and Jews today are relatively more apathetic about their religion than Muslims are so criticism doesn't make the same impact.

Like you I interact with Muslims most days of the week and have spent time in Muslim countries. My experience of Muslims is not reflected in any of what most mainstream commentators would have us believe. Yes some of the older generation are more conservative about traditional gender roles and homosexuality but mostly they are honest, decent people who contribute to society and want to live a peaceful life. I think we in the West forget just how recently our views on women, religion and homosexuality was very similar to what many Muslims believe today. Societies develop at different paces and we have to respect that. There are many places which are not Muslim where women and homosexuals are treated badly but people don't seem to get up in arms about it. There seems to be this narrative circulating that Sharia Law = mass stoning's and beheading's and that just isnt the case. Sharia Law is a complex legal system based on precedent that varies greatly depending on countries/regions. Yes in certain countries is applied brutally like Saudi and Iran but there are 1.5 billion people in the muslim world and we cant assume that we can generalize that type of system to all those people.

While Affleck's response was not the most sophisticated I think he was right, Maher and Harris have had an axe to grind with Islam for some time now and it stems from their unwavering support for the peoples republic of Israel. They are trying to sway the public debate in the US back in favour of Israel after the recent war in Gaza, they want us to believe that Islam is bad and evil and that Israel is on the frontlines defending western civilization. Its hypocritical in extreme given how Israel itself is a radicalized and fundamentalist society and both of them happily support it.

FTA69

I think its racist if criticism of the faith is an underhand way of criticising and stereotyping the people who believe in it.

At the risk of sounding like a pedant; racism is concerned with race, nationality and ethnicity as opposed to religious belief. Sectarianism can obviously be just as bigoted and yes, the two often dove-tail neatly into each other. Especially when people start portraying Islam in Britain as this foreign fifth column out to wreck the place.

In the UK, I find most of those perpetuating Islamophobia are also of the racist persuasion.

Societies develop at different paces and we have to respect that.

I'd say it's something that should be acknowledged rather than respected. Things like gay rights and women's rights should be universal and we shouldn't tolerate breaches of that simply because some societies "haven't got there yet". In many parts of the Islamic World, these things are actually being rolled back from gains that were made in the 1960s. There are also many people in the Islamic World who were fighting to progress these issues and we should be fully supportive of them.

While Affleck's response was not the most sophisticated I think he was right, Maher and Harris have had an axe to grind with Islam for some time now and it stems from their unwavering support for the peoples republic of Israel. They are trying to sway the public debate in the US back in favour of Israel after the recent war in Gaza, they want us to believe that Islam is bad and evil and that Israel is on the frontlines defending western civilization. Its hypocritical in extreme given how Israel itself is a radicalized and fundamentalist society and both of them happily support it.

No argument there. Maher's opinions on Israel are a joke largely.

jank

The issue raised of course by Harris and Maher, one the the left and those who call themselves liberal never go near is the fact that Islam has a way of perverting normally right thinking people. There is a core large minority of Muslims who actively engage in this activist thinking as pointed out by Harris. Moral and ethical views in Muslims countries by the majority are hundreds of years behind the west. Yet, because they are a minority in the west these views and those who air them are protected by the left. It also of course helps that a they are not white.

No one is saying that all Muslims are x,y,z or whatever, indeed this is not the argument at all. The argument is that there is something in the ideology itself that manifests itself into what we see in todays Muslim world.

Simply spend time in any Muslim majority state and you will see the effects of Islam on the thinking of the people. Anti-Semitic conspiracy theories, oppression of women, rampant abuse of homosexuals and religious minorities.

This is a totally non-racial issue because it spans the globe, from the Muslim portions of Europe, through Turkey, Arab countries, south Asia, and SE Asia and Indonesia. Additionally this thinking is present in ex-pat Muslim communities and alarmingly in converts from all backgrounds. Criticism of the unifying ideology in these abuses and depredations is nothing to do with race. But Ben cannot comprehend the argument and ideas at stake so he flings the term "racism" because in left wing circles that is the best way to make uncomfortable thoughts go away.

Dave!

Playboy wrote: »

I think its racist if criticism of the faith is an underhand way of criticising and stereotyping the people who believe in it. We could criticise Judaism and Christianity in the same way, they have just as many barmy bad ideas that belong in the past as Islam does. The problem is is that a lot Christians and Jews today are relatively more apathetic about their religion than Muslims are so criticism doesn't make the same impact.

That's exactly Harris' point. The Christians had their genocidal period. Thankfully at this point in Christian history, they don't take the faith seriously enough to try and spread it by the sword. There are some pretty sh*tty moral teachings emanating from Christian beliefs, but they're not at this point a global threat in the same way certain Islamic teachings are—hence why Harris is more concerned about Islam. He would be perfectly happy if Islam went the way of Christianity & lost its militantism.

Playboy wrote: »

While Affleck's response was not the most sophisticated I think he was right, Maher and Harris have had an axe to grind with Islam for some time now and it stems from their unwavering support for the peoples republic of Israel. They are trying to sway the public debate in the US back in favour of Israel after the recent war in Gaza, they want us to believe that Islam is bad and evil and that Israel is on the frontlines defending western civilization. Its hypocritical in extreme given how Israel itself is a radicalized and fundamentalist society and both of them happily support it.

Not everyone who is critical of the doctrines of martyrdom and jihad is a Zionist. Harris has some questionable views on Israel, but if you read anything he writes about Islam, his reasoning is spelled out quite clearly and it has nothing to do with Israel, which, incidentally, he believes should not exist:

I don’t think Israel should exist as a Jewish state. I think it is obscene, irrational and unjustifiable to have a state organized around a religion. So I don’t celebrate the idea that there’s a Jewish homeland in the Middle East. I certainly don’t support any Jewish claims to real estate based on the Bible.

Richard D James

tastyt wrote: »

Affleck should stick to being a bad actor. So easy for him in his cocoon of luxury and security to criticise people for saying something wrong is actually wrong. Hippie political views

So he cant have an opinion because hes an actor ?
Hes in the public eye and asked questions about his views in interviews
Whats he supposed to say "oh I cant give an opinion because im an actor, sorry"

wes

tastyt wrote: »

Affleck should stick to being a bad actor. So easy for him in his cocoon of luxury and security to criticise people for saying something wrong is actually wrong. Hippie political views

Seriously, Maher is a comedian (and a anti-vaxer as well), so what your saying should you now apply to him as well then..... right? He is just a comedian, so he should stick to being crap at that.

As for Affleck, the guy is a decent actor and director, and has as much right to an opinion as Maher, and Harris. Who have both faced criticism on a variety of topics, especially Maher, who is prone to saying very dumb (and quite frankly dangerously stupid things in some cases) things. If you want to attack the person, then it can just as easily be turned around on the other to, especially Maher, which I could have a field day with if I was bothered.

Nodin

jank wrote: »

The issue raised of course by Harris and Maher, one the the left and those who call themselves liberal never go near is the fact that Islam has a way of perverting normally right thinking people. ..............

Deja Vu.

"Learn from this, dear Christian, what you are doing if you permit the blind Jews to mislead you. Then the saying will truly apply, "When a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into the pit" [cf. Luke 6:39]. You cannot learn anything from them except how to misunderstand the divine commandments..."
http://jdstone.org/cr/pages/sss_mluther.html


It's amazing how cycles of xenophobia and bigotry repeat themselves.

thrashmetalfan

maher and harris just want to bash muslims and islam. heard it all before from other conservative types. this is a sneaky way to go about it.

Standman

Playboy wrote: »

While Affleck's response was not the most sophisticated I think he was right, Maher and Harris have had an axe to grind with Islam for some time now and it stems from their unwavering support for the peoples republic of Israel. They are trying to sway the public debate in the US back in favour of Israel after the recent war in Gaza, they want us to believe that Islam is bad and evil and that Israel is on the frontlines defending western civilization. Its hypocritical in extreme given how Israel itself is a radicalized and fundamentalist society and both of them happily support it.

Not that I agree with everything he says about Islam, but I've seen the above said about Harris a good few times, and it just seems to me like a conveniently cynical view of his opinions as opposed to something based his actual stated beliefs.

Dave!

Nodin wrote: »

Deja Vu.

"Learn from this, dear Christian, what you are doing if you permit the blind Jews to mislead you. Then the saying will truly apply, "When a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into the pit" [cf. Luke 6:39]. You cannot learn anything from them except how to misunderstand the divine commandments..."
http://jdstone.org/cr/pages/sss_mluther.html


It's amazing how cycles of xenophobia and bigotry repeat themselves.

Do you realise that you've posted several times in this thread but haven't made any substantive point or argument whatsoever?

Nodin

Dave! wrote: »

Do you realise that you've posted several times in this thread but haven't made any substantive point or argument whatsoever?

In your opinion.

I'm sorry if I don't see the light shining from the anus of Mr Maher or Mr Harris because they are on the "left" as some others do.

Frank Lee Midere

Nodin wrote: »

In your opinion.

I'm sorry if I don't see the light shining from the anus of Mr Maher or Mr Harris because they are on the "left" as some others do.

Your last link was something bad somebody said about Jews. Therefore same as criticising Islam.

I think Harris is a pro-Israeli bigot but it's clear that the left - the American left in particular - find it as hard to criticise Islam as they find it easy to criticise Catholicism. Both are minority religions in the US.