Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - See Mod Warning in OP, 09/11

Blatter

stankratz wrote: »

Is it still in the rules that the F.A. can take retrospective action once a card wasn't issued by the ref?

Unless they've changed the rules recently, no action will be taken against Wilshere because the ref saw the incident and 'dealt' with it by talking to both players.

Kerrydude1981

zerks wrote: »

No doubt Wilshere is a footballer with bags of potential but by god he does suffer from short man syndrome.

ShooterSF

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Not sure if your relating the 'bad performance' to our defence yesterday but if you are Chris Smalling says no. He had an excellent game and made up for his idiotic performance against city.
To note both Blackett and McNair had great games along side him

I thought Blackett was poor. He's only young and has shown promise but if that was his only senior game I'd want him far away from the first team for a while.

glued

We could of been 4/5-0 down at half time. The performance yesterday wasn't good enough. With the attacking players we have, we should be doing much better. Injuries aren't helping but we should be much further along than we are.

kryogen

kryogen wrote: »

Honest question, I see so many people talking about a terrible performance, and played **** and that kind of stuff, so my question is this

What exactly is expected performance wise given the constant injuries, the constant change of personnel, the total lack of a settled defence, the lack of a settled team in fact. The system keeps on being changed, due to circumstance mostly, and will be changed again when other players are available.

There is no consistency to the selection or the system, what kind of performance are people (who seem to be overly concerned by the disjointed performances right now) expecting taking all things into consideration right now?

Agree with you yet again. Team spirit has been steadily improving this year even with all the injuries and forced juggling of the squad and in particilar the defence. Arsenal were exposed as the brittle team they are by over committing and being destroyed on the counter. It was a professional display by us

CantonasCollar

Al Capwned wrote: »

You've a lot to learn.....

Despite the hard times of the last 18ish months, Utd just can't compete with the wife when it comes to making life hard, and last season they really tried!

adox

Didn't get to see the game as I was away but delighted with the result.

I'm quite surprised we are in 4th given the continuos injuries and changing team.

van Gaal must feel like he is still starting at the club in a way as there just hasn't been any platform to build on.

I see a few on here complaint about the performance yesterday and calling it unacceptable etc. but really, beating Arsenal at the Emirates anytime is a really good result. Beating them with that dense put out and the amount of players missing really is an excellent result.


As I said I didn't see the game and I get it that Arsenal dominated and possibly should have been a couple of goals ahead at least but they weren't and Utd took the 3 points.

Onwards and upwards. Grind out a couple of more results now and then most of the injured players should be coming back for the Christmas period which is great.

Maximus Alexander

I think what we've learned is that with Big Dave between the sticks United don't need to play well, as long as the odd goal is scored.

PhlegmyMoses

kryogen wrote: »

Honest question, I see so many people talking about a terrible performance, and played **** and that kind of stuff, so my question is this

What exactly is expected performance wise given the constant injuries, the constant change of personnel, the total lack of a settled defence, the lack of a settled team in fact. The system keeps on being changed, due to circumstance mostly, and will be changed again when other players are available.

There is no consistency to the selection or the system, what kind of performance are people (who seem to be overly concerned by the disjointed performances right now) expecting taking all things into consideration right now?

I thought we played crap for the most part and on another day we lose. I also acknowledge that having a revolving cast of defenders and midfielders isn't conducive to consistently good play.

Basically, you can call it like it is and also understand the reasons for it.

kryogen

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

I thought we played crap for the most part and on another day we lose. I also acknowledge that having a revolving cast of defenders and midfielders isn't conducive to consistently good play.

Basically, you can call it like it is and also understand the reasons for it.

The question was what kind of performance are people expecting all things considered?

What kind of level is the team supposed to be playing at with an out of form striker up top, a defence built on two players in their debut seasons, while being chopped and changed constantly and a midfield that is a revolving door of injuries also?

The defence yesterday had Smalling as the senior player, a winger at right and left and two teenagers making up the rest of the cast

MagicMarker

kryogen wrote: »

The question was what kind of performance are people expecting all things considered?

What kind of level is the team supposed to be playing at with an out of form striker up top, a defence built on two players in their debut seasons, while being chopped and changed constantly and a midfield that is a revolving door of injuries also?

The defence yesterday had Smalling as the senior player, a winger at right and left and two teenagers making up the rest of the cast

I'd expect a team full of professional footballers to at least string 3 or 4 passes together, something we didn't do in the first half at least.

Robson99

I wonder are Herrera's days numbered. He is not getting a look in even from the bench
Despite starting very promising. Cant figure it out

The Moldy Gowl

Robson99 wrote: »

I wonder are Herrera's days numbered. He is not getting a look in even from the bench
Despite starting very promising. Cant figure it out

That's ridiculous. He is coming back from injury and Fellaini is our best player these last few matcha. He will get his chance.

Once we get our defence back and sorted then we won't 'need' fellainis strength

Robson99

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

That's ridiculous. He is coming back from injury and Fellaini is our best player these last few matcha. He will get his chance.

Once we get our defence back and sorted then we won't 'need' fellainis strength

Ridiculous??? Your having a laugh. If hes fit enough for the bench he should be fit enough to play. Carrick is just back as well.

Quandary

What a great weekend of sport that was

The Moldy Gowl

Robson99 wrote: »

Ridiculous??? Your having a laugh. If hes fit enough for the bench he should be fit enough to play. Carrick is just back as well.

Who is he going to displace? He isn't a defensive midfielder, carrick is.

It's between Fellaini and Herrera for the other midfield spot. At this moment in time Fellaini is rightly ahead of him.

And with our defense very inexperienced, I would prefer Fellaini being around to cover the back line. I wouldn't call his days numbered just yet.

Mantis Toboggan

Robson99 wrote: »

I wonder are Herrera's days numbered. He is not getting a look in even from the bench
Despite starting very promising. Cant figure it out

He was decent at the start but nothing fantastic. Carrick coming back into the team ahead of him is very worrying. LVG seems to have very little faith in him.

The Moldy Gowl

Buddy Holly wrote: »

He was decent at the start but nothing fantastic. Carrick coming back into the team ahead of him is very worrying. LVG seems to have very little faith in him.

Carrick came in for blind?

Mantis Toboggan

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

Carrick came in for blind?

Aye, and if LVG thought herrara is good enough he would have done anything to get him back in the side.

killwill

Lads, there are probably several reasons why Herrera was on the bench the other day.
One of them being lack of match fitness due to injury.
I would also think that given Uniteds defensive crisis and our back 3 yesterday consisting of McNair-Smalling-Blackett, Fellaini and Carrick were picked ahead of him for their defensive abilities.
Herrera is a serious footballer and will be a consistent first teamer this year for United IMO.

The Moldy Gowl

Buddy Holly wrote: »

Aye, and if LVG thought herrara is good enough he would have done anything to get him back in the side.

Better than Fellaini at the moment in time while our defense is made up of youth players?
He wouldn't be able to protect the back line as well. That's why carrick and Fellaini are in the team right now. This should change once the defense is fit.

You can't have an overly attacking team with no defense.

I would prefer to play cautious right now with the defense. They are young and will end up making a mistake that will cost the match. You need to limit the chances of that happening.

KH25

I'm reading nothing into Hererra being benched. It's obvious to me that LVG sees Carrick and Blind performing a similar defensive role, hence why Carrick is playing. Herrera and Fellaini are quite rightly being used further up and at the moment Fellaini is playing very well.

bucketybuck

killwill wrote: »

One of them being lack of match fitness due to injury.

Herrera has been available for nearly a month now, has he not been on the bench for the last few games? How many months does it take to get back to fitness? Not to mention that this doesn't seem to apply to the also returning Micheal Carrick.

I also like how Herrera has gone from being an actual midfielder to some sort of number ten who can't defend.

The Moldy Gowl

bucketybuck wrote: »

Herrera has been available for nearly a month now, has he not been on the bench for the last few games? How many months does it take to get back to fitness? Not to mention that this doesn't seem to apply to the also returning Micheal Carrick.

I also like how Herrera has gone from being an actual midfielder to some sort of number ten who can't defend.

Well he isn't as experienced or as defensive enough as carrick- we needed experienced defensive players. We have McNair and Blackett who are getting their chance by sheer luck. Where were they last year?

We needed strength in defense, Fellaini.

Unfortunately we needed to be defensive the last month. Fellaini has done a good job. Why drop him for someone for someone who might not be as good defensively.

I wouldn't worry about him or mata. Let's get our defense sorted first. Then we can build our attack from that.

bucketybuck

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

Unfortunately we needed to be defensive the last month. Fellaini has done a good job. Why drop him for someone for someone who might not be as good defensively.

We shouldn't drop him, we should play them both and stop trying to play two strikers.

Giggsy11

bucketybuck wrote: »

Herrera has been available for nearly a month now, has he not been on the bench for the last few games? How many months does it take to get back to fitness? Not to mention that this doesn't seem to apply to the also returning Micheal Carrick.

I also like how Herrera has gone from being an actual midfielder to some sort of number ten who can't defend.

I agree. I think only reason Herrera is not playing is because of Fellaini and Van Gaal liked what he got from Fellaini. He said we need physical presence in PL (after WBA game I think) and from that day Fellaini started all games and we somewhat looked better defensively.

Hopefully there is some way where we can start Herrera all games.

The Moldy Gowl

bucketybuck wrote: »

We shouldn't drop him, we should play them both and stop trying to play two strikers.

Drop rvp for Ander? Yeah suppose we could. Looks likes he is trying to play rvp into form though.

FortuneChip

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

Drop rvp for Ander? Yeah suppose we could. Looks likes he is trying to play rvp into form though.

I think you're right, but it's not working.
Can't see him getting dropped either.

The Moldy Gowl

FortuneChip wrote: »

I think you're right, but it's not working.
Can't see him getting dropped either.

It Hasn't been working recently alright. But I don't think he is going to do a Torres.

I think I would rather him playing into form rather than sit on the bench. That's probably not popular here but he isn't going to get into form on the bench. I think the tactic of starting him and subbing him for Wilson is good. Maybe could start Wilson next an bring him on maybe.

Will be interesting when falcao comes back next week or whenever.

kryogen

Its pretty obvious Herrera is competing with Fellaini for a spot in the starting line up, Van Gaal is all about roles, and Carrick and Blind share one, which is why you see Carrick in the team, what exactly does it say to Fellaini if Herrera just strolls straight back into the team after an injury and Fellaini has played very well? Fellaini being in the team on merit doesn't mean Herrera has no future at the club.

Its not that hard like.

kryogen

bucketybuck wrote: »

We shouldn't drop him, we should play them both and stop trying to play two strikers.

You mean don't play Carrick?

Van Gaal has roles for everyone on the pitch, his midfielders tend to be separated into category's, deep lying defensive, box to box and offensive

Blind/Carrick - defensive
Herrera/Fellaini - box to box

To drop Fellaini for Herrera right now would send the wrong message to Fellaini and destroy the confidence he has been building up and showing. Herrera will get his chance again.

Mr_Red

Borussia Dortmund’s Marco Reus out for rest of year with torn ligaments

FortuneChip

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

It Hasn't been working recently alright. But I don't think he is going to do a Torres.

I think I would rather him playing into form rather than sit on the bench. That's probably not popular here but he isn't going to get into form on the bench. I think the tactic of starting him and subbing him for Wilson is good. Maybe could start Wilson next an bring him on maybe.

Will be interesting when falcao comes back next week or whenever.

Well, RVP really should be taking any chance he has next week against Hull.
I'd hope confidence is high enough after the Arsenal win to at least play with the intention of steamrolling them.

kryogen

Mr_Red wrote: »

Borussia Dortmund’s Marco Reus out for rest of year with torn ligaments

Yeah I think he is another one to be crossing off the wish list to be honest, too many injuries at this point. Shame his career is being hampered so badly by them and hope he can come back next year and try again to stay fit. When fit he is wonderful to watch but he is going to be 26 by the time next season rolls around and there has been no let up in the injuries

The ankles have been giving trouble for a while now

bucketybuck

kryogen wrote: »

You mean don't play Carrick?

Well, I didn't say drop Carrick, but I'm not his biggest fan so I probably would prefer somebody else in there.

I said that we should stop trying to shoehorn in 2 strikers, play Carrick, Felliani and Herrera in midfield with just one striker up front.

If it is going to be two in midfield then yes, play Herrera and Felliani. Remember how Herrera was supposed to be a midfielder?

The Moldy Gowl

Herrera is a midfielder?

kryogen

bucketybuck wrote: »

Well, I didn't say drop Carrick, but I'm not his biggest fan so I probably would prefer somebody else in there.

I said that we should stop trying to shoehorn in 2 strikers, play Carrick, Felliani and Herrera in midfield with just one striker up front.

If it is going to be two in midfield then yes, play Herrera and Felliani. Remember how Herrera was supposed to be a midfielder?

Herrera is a midfielder though?

He got injured, Fellaini came in and performed well in his place so has retained it.

Talking about dropping one of the strikers is a different conversation, he is competing with Fellaini for a midfield spot at the moment and right now Fellaini is in the team on merit.

beno619

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

It Hasn't been working recently alright. But I don't think he is going to do a Torres.

I think I would rather him playing into form rather than sit on the bench. That's probably not popular here but he isn't going to get into form on the bench. I think the tactic of starting him and subbing him for Wilson is good. Maybe could start Wilson next an bring him on maybe.

Will be interesting when falcao comes back next week or whenever.

Right now he contributes nothing, I really dont mind the lack of goals but the lack of contribution of anything meaningful is pretty desperate, Mata, Jan, Wilson id give any of them a shot at this point.

advertsfox

Vimeo Footage Returns for the Arsenal match - I love this mans reactions! The silence before Rooneys chip goes in is immense

http://vimeo.com/112621835

Mantis Toboggan

Think if RVP doesn't play well against Hull then he has to be dropped end of story. No of this he has to play himself into form ****e. We cannot be carrying players and right now he has not been good enough.

Thought Rooney really played well on Saturday. Would like to see him start up top on his own with di Maria and Mata in behind. Carrick Fellani and herrara in behind them.

Anymore defenders likely to be back for Saturday?

kstand

Wilson did more in the time he had than RVP did in the whole game.
Thought Ashley Young played very well when he came on, got properly stuck in.
Could RVP be a bit burned out I wonder? Interesting to see how fit Falcao is.

beno619

You'd have to be really worried about RVP. Its been a steady decline for 17 months now, last season his goals covered up the general poor play. Hopefully he gets over this slump but the signs aint good, he's the only player that hasnt recovered from the Moyes era.

Backstreet Moyes

I think RVP could do with a rest to be honest. I would love to see Wilson start but i think Mata playing off Rooney is the best thing right now.

kstand

beno619 wrote: »

You'd have to be really worried about RVP. Its been a steady decline for 17 months now, last season his goals covered up the general poor play. Hopefully he gets over this slump but the signs aint good, he's the only player that hasnt recovered from the Moyes era.

There is an argument that we now struggle to find his runs - when he was banging in goals he had the likes of Giggs, Scholes and Carrick feeding him. Our midfield has struggled and Feillaini is not creative in the slightest - we don't dominate and create from that sector of the pitch like we used to.

kryogen

I agree with that to an extent, it has been highlighted that he is making the runs, he is making the little moves but we are not finding him. RvP's poor form is not solely down to him, he is reliant on his team mates spotting him and playing him in. Hopefully as the team continues to gel this will become more natural

Backstreet Moyes

kstand wrote: »

There is an argument that we now struggle to find his runs - when he was banging in goals he had the likes of Giggs, Scholes and Carrick feeding him. Our midfield has struggled and Feillaini is not creative in the slightest - we don't dominate and create from that sector of the pitch like we used to.

While i agree he is not getting fantastic service but his finishing has been very poor. Those half chances he would take so often he has been missing lately. He doesn't look confident in front of goal at all.

beno619

kstand wrote: »

There is an argument that we now struggle to find his runs - when he was banging in goals he had the likes of Giggs, Scholes and Carrick feeding him. Our midfield has struggled and Feillaini is not creative in the slightest - we don't dominate and create from that sector of the pitch like we used to.

This may be true but his biggest issue imo isnt the lack of goals its the fact that he's not contributing anything, in fact play usually breaks up after he receives the ball.

Thats why we keep hearing "Falcao/Wilson did more in 15mins that RVP" etc.

kryogen

Nuts102 wrote: »

While i agree he is not getting fantastic service but his finishing has been very poor. Those half chances he would take so often he has been missing lately. He doesn't look confident in front of goal at all.

Strikers curse, he needs goals to build confidence and while confidence is low he is not finishing as you would expect him to when in full flow

advertsfox

"This is my ball, there are many like it but this one is mine..."

killwill

bucketybuck wrote: »

Herrera has been available for nearly a month now, has he not been on the bench for the last few games? How many months does it take to get back to fitness? Not to mention that this doesn't seem to apply to the also returning Micheal Carrick.

I also like how Herrera has gone from being an actual midfielder to some sort of number ten who can't defend.

He wasn't fit for the last month.
He started a game wearing a protective support around his chest.
He was taken off at halftime and I believe didnt feature in a game since.