Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - See Mod Warning in OP, 09/11

Rayne Wooney

Nani's best seasons for United, coincidentally the last and only times he's been given a long run in the team, would come close enough to Di Maria's best at Madrid

RobertKK

Had to laugh at Mourinho last night.

He talked about how teams don't go to Germany and win 5-0. I thought... well, David Moyes did it with United last year.

Pro. F

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

Sure they do, but they have access to make informed decisions. This nani thing has been going on for how long now? It's a waste of time. This debate goes around in circles. This isn't a case of why is rvp playing.

3 managers have been through nani. Clearly something more there than opinion.

I'll give my opinion on what I want. I have done so, just not on nani? I'm sorry I wasn't aware I had to give my opinion on a player who barely ever played in the last few years and this being done to death to the point of copy and pasting the replies. I'm just glad cleverley isn't here or you would be upset to find out I don't care about him either.

I couldn't care less about nani. He has barely played, we have moved on, for better or for worse, I trust the managers decision.

Any more digs?

Your argument that the management are more informed than we are so there's no point in arguing against their decisions on players works for all players at all clubs. If you are to be consistent with your logic then there is no point debating who should be playing for any club, but 99% of posters on football club forums like doing it. I don't think that you have to have an opinion on any player, but I do think it would be better if you let the people who like to express and debate opinions on players have at it in the forum that caters to that.

RasTa

M!Ck^ wrote: »

In other news;

Kagawa not playing well/ Inconsistency for BD / Klopp it seems.

http://hereisthecity.com/en-gb/2014/11/26/former-manchester-united-player-shinji-kagawa-can-play-better-sa/

I still can't believe we sold him for £6.3m

Pro. F

M!Ck^ wrote: »

In your Opinion. You should try not to generalise and try and talk for everybody.
He's trying to compare a player that has a gulf in class between them I don't care if there both wingers. One is World Class one is most certainly not.

Echo RobertKK's point.

The idea that there can be no comparisons drawn between Nani and Di Maria is dumb. There can be comparisons drawn between Di Maria and Paul McShane, the issue is what was the comparison and what point did the comparison illustrate. You refused to deal with the point by pretending that the two players could never be compared under any circumstances.

The Moldy Gowl

Naw. I'll do what I want and not be bullied into posting when I'm allowed.

Thanks for the tips though. There is a function you can avail of if you wish.

Rayne Wooney

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Nani's best seasons for United, coincidentally the last and only times he's been given a long run in the team, would come close enough to Di Maria's best at Madrid

Last thing I'm going to say on Nani.

His best season was 4+ years ago.
Some here are under the presumption that in 2014 / 2015 he's going to deliver consistently if he's now given a full run in the team for the rest of the season.

This generalisation that because a player hasn't been given 20+ games of a run in the team then he hasn't been given a chance.

If he's good enough and if he's at the standard that we should expect at UTD then he will do something to cement his place in one or two games and make himself un-droppable. The same for Kagawa etc..

Nani is one of the most frustrating players ever to wear a Utd shirt and a lot of Utd fans would share the same feeling.

Opinion / Rant over. On to the next.

bucketybuck

RobertKK wrote: »

Di Maria has goals and assists that I don't believe Nani would have if he was playing instead of Di Maria, which is great as he is only new to the club.
He offers far more than Nani ever did.

Your point isn't valid, Nani did have goals and assists for the club when he played, the stats confirm this.

Besides, Di Maria has what, 3 goals this season? Lets not get carried away here, I could easily see Nani having 3 goals had he played every game this season.

bucketybuck

bucketybuck wrote: »

Your point isn't valid, Nani did have goals and assists for the club when he played, the stats confirm this.

Besides, Di Maria has what, 3 goals this season? Lets not get carried away here, I could easily see Nani having 3 goals had he played every game this season.

Di Maria has 6 assists, he's in the top 5.

Liam O

Until last season Nani had achieved far more than Di Maria. I don't know if it was bust ups or actual injuries but Fergie starting him in his last Champions League game should be an indicator of his ability.

Rayne Wooney

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Last thing I'm going to say on Nani.

His best season was 4+ years ago.
Some here are under the presumption that in 2014 / 2015 he's going to deliver consistently if he's now given a full run in the team for the rest of the season.

This generalisation that because a player hasn't been given 20+ games of a run in the team then he hasn't been given a chance.

If he's good enough and if he's at the standard that we should expect at UTD then he will do something to cement his place in one or two games and make himself un-droppable. The same for Kagawa etc..

Nani is one of the most frustrating players ever to wear a Utd shirt and a lot of Utd fans would share the same feeling.

Opinion / Rant over. On to the next.

Well it does have precedent that he will deliver given a run in the team, he has missed 37 games over the past 3 seasons through injury

This was my problem with people saying Welbeck would deliver given a run up front, there was really nothing to show that he would, Nani has a history of performing when given a long run in the team so it's more likely to happen than not

Backstreet Moyes

If Nani comes back he would be taking Janjuaz's place. Why the hell are people comparing him to Di Maria.

Pro. F

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Last thing I'm going to say on Nani.

His best season was 4+ years ago.
Some here are under the presumption that in 2014 / 2015 he's going to deliver consistently if he's now given a full run in the team for the rest of the season.

This generalisation that because a player hasn't been given 20+ games of a run in the team then he hasn't been given a chance.

If he's good enough and if he's at the standard that we should expect at UTD then he will do something to cement his place in one or two games and make himself un-droppable. The same for Kagawa etc..

Nani is one of the most frustrating players ever to wear a Utd shirt and a lot of Utd fans would share the same feeling.

Opinion / Rant over. On to the next.

Nobody has said that Nani needs a run of 20 games to prove himself. Rooney, RVP and the like rarely make themselves undroppable within in two or three games of coming back, but I assume you are happy with them being given time to find form.

bucketybuck

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Nani has a history of performing when given a long run in the team so it's more likely to happen than not

And in fact is happening right now, just not for the team that owns him.

Will I Amnt

If United get a consistent good run of form I'd be fine with Nani coming back, he's not the kind of player you want when you're trying to find your feet as a team IMO.

Liam McPoyle

Nani me bollox tbh.

He was proven time and again to be staggeringly inconsistent.

He is playing in a decidedly average team in Sporting.

He would be a decent squad player for is but with the massive salary he is on it would be a waste to bring him back.

Much like Wellbeck and Kag's, Nani is in the past and should be left there IMO.

Pro. F

Business Cat wrote: »

Nani me bollox tbh.

He was proven time and again to be staggeringly inconsistent.

He is playing in a decidedly average team in Sporting.

He would be a decent squad player for is but with the massive salary he is on it would be a waste to bring him back.

Much like Wellbeck and Kag's, Nani is in the past and should be left there IMO.

When was it that Nani proved to be staggeringly inconsistent?

Pro. F

Pro. F wrote: »

Nobody has said that Nani needs a run of 20 games to prove himself. Rooney, RVP and the like rarely make themselves undroppable within in two or three games of coming back, but I assume you are happy with them being given time to find form.

Plenty have said that Nani needs a good run in the team, do I have to read through the whole thread to prove this to you?

I have discussed that RVP be dropped and replaced with Falcoa for weeks now because of poor form. A goal against Chelsea in the last minute doesn't excuse this.

But Falcoa has now become unavailable because of injury.

Again don't assume you know what I'm thinking.

Rayne Wooney

Pro. F wrote: »

When was it that Nani proved to be staggeringly inconsistent?

When he was played inconsistently probably

SpuddMurphy

I really don't see where the sudden love for Nani has come from, what he's performing in a bad league and against bad teams in CL? He's 28, get's ridiculous wages, I'd rather him just leave now. I know for a fact he could play all season and get like 8 assists and 4 goals at most probably, all being against little teams. Although I would be curious to see how he'd play the Robben role ST in 3-5-2, but I really don't like when we play that formation.

The Moldy Gowl

SpuddMurphy wrote: »

I really don't see where the sudden love for Nani has come from, what he's performing in a bad league and against bad teams in CL? He's 28, get's ridiculous wages, I'd rather him just leave now. I know for a fact he could play all season and get like 8 assists and 4 goals at most probably, all being against little teams. Although I would be curious to see how he'd play the Robben role ST in 3-5-2, but I really don't like when we play that formation.

This nani love in has been ongoing for a long long time. It's nothing new and nothing good ever comes of it.

Lucas Hood

Is all this talk about Nani coming after that goal last night? You only need to watch that to see how frustrating he is , Fair enough he scored but he had a better option to pass to his team mates 2 or 3 times.

Thing that always annoyed me about him was he passed when he should be shooting & shot when he should be passing.

SpuddMurphy

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

This nani love in has been ongoing for a long long time. It's nothing new and nothing good ever comes of it.

It's a bit ridiculous tbh, we all know he can be a great player on his day but so can any player. He's been at United a long time and if he was anywhere was good as people are saying he is in here then he would of forced his way into the teams and played all those games you lot are saying he needs to show consistency. Fact is the best players convince the manager to play them by performing when given the chance.

eagle eye

People regularly talk about what a player did as regards goals and assists. That is not all the game is about though, you need to have players who can get back and dig in when required. Its often the reason that a player who is good as an attacker is not starting games. Most managers feel there is only room for one player in a team who doesn't fall back when you lose possession these days.

bucketybuck

eagle eye wrote: »

People regularly talk about what a player did as regards goals and assists. That is not all the game is about though, you need to have players who can get back and dig in when required. Its often the reason that a player who is good as an attacker is not starting games. Most managers feel there is only room for one player in a team who doesn't fall back when you lose possession these days.

We need Valencia back on the right wing as soon as possible!

The Moldy Gowl

SpuddMurphy wrote: »

It's a bit ridiculous tbh, we all know he can be a great player on his day but so can any player. He's been at United a long time and if he was anywhere was good as people are saying he is in here then he would of forced his way into the teams and played all those games you lot are saying he needs to show consistency. Fact is the best players convince the manager to play them by performing when given the chance.

No one is right and no one is wrong.

If you are on the fence- wrong
Want him to play - wrong
Don't want him - wrong.

It will never finish

The_Kew_Tour

Just one thing on Nani that i read earlier about him only been good against weaker teams.

Don't think that is true at all. I can remember him been excellent against Arsenal, Liverpool and Chelsea come to mind.

Would be one of first names on team sheet if he was at club now for me.

Donnielighto

Signing a five year contract and then not playing him doesn't really increase his value. Teams will see we get nothing for our contribution and therefore the pressure is on us to sell. His contract indicates he was in the long term plan at that stage. I'd also wager that the flub signed off on it in the knowledge that Moyes was walking.

Donnielighto

Nani is a good defensively as you'd expect a winger to be honestly. If you want full backs on the wing play full backs.

Pro. F

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Plenty have said that Nani needs a good run in the team, do I have to read through the whole thread to prove this to you?

I have discussed that RVP be dropped and replaced with Falcoa for weeks now because of poor form. A goal against Chelsea in the last minute doesn't excuse this.

But Falcoa has now become unavailable because of injury.

Again don't assume you know what I'm thinking.

A good run in the team does not mean 20 games. Maybe you will be able to find the very occasional post saying Nani needs 20 games to find form, but that is not representative of the general argument, made by the majority, that he needs a good run in the team to show form. You are using the outlandish figure to try to discredit the argument.

Calling for RVP to be dropped now after he has played so many bad games does not mean you are treating Nani the same as other players. Would you call for RVP, Rooney, etc to be dropped after one or two quiet games when they come into the team?

Liam O

Donnielighto wrote: »

Nani is a good defensively as you'd expect a winger to be honestly. If you want full backs on the wing play full backs.

Nah sure he's exactly like Ronaldo just not as good right. I mean he's Portuguese so that means he must be a goalscoring winger who doesn't defend.

Also replacing RVP with Falcao is a little bit different to replacing Januzaj who's been decent in one game this season with Nani who's been a standout in many.

Mantis Toboggan

Liam O wrote: »

Nani has just as good a workrate as Valencia. Just because Valencia doesn't attack makes no difference.

This simply isn't true, and of course Valencia attacks also, how did you think we got the goal against Arsenal?

Anyway il have to call around to your house with a few beers and watch a few old games and I'll explain it to you.

Pro. F

Pro. F wrote: »

A good run in the team does not mean 20 games. Maybe you will be able to find the very occasional post saying Nani needs 20 games to find form, but that is not representative of the general argument, made by the majority, that he needs a good run in the team to show form. You are using the outlandish figure to try to discredit the argument.

Calling for RVP to be dropped now after he has played so many bad games does not mean you are treating Nani the same as other players. Would you call for RVP, Rooney, etc to be dropped after one or two quiet games when they come into the team?

A number that I used is in turn giving you the space for an argument. If I turned the figure of 20 into a 'solid run in team' what would a solid run consist of in your opinion?

bucketybuck

Buddy Holly wrote: »

This simply isn't true, and of course Valencia attacks also, how did you think we got the goal against Arsenal?

By scuffing his shot and getting lucky? How did you think he got it?

Antonio Valencia, 2 league goals in 29 games last season, 1 from 30 the season before, he is indeed an attacking phenom.

ElChe32

Antonio Valencia is disgracefully one footed for a winger. Defenders have sussed him out over the past few years, he can't cross (No blasting the ball as hard as you can from one side of the box to the other doesn't count). His one-footedness slows our attacks to no end. Grand squad player but needs replacing.

Nalz

bucketybuck wrote: »

By scuffing his shot and getting lucky? How did you think he got it?

Antonio Valencia, 2 league goals in 29 games last season, 1 from 30 the season before, he is indeed an attacking phenom.

Chelsea are top of the league, Oscar has played in all but 2 games (one was vs City) and has got 3 goals. Willian has 1 and has not played in 2 (he got 4 from 20 games or so last season). Are they not attacking then by that logic?

The question was does he attack no? Course he does if that was the question.

He's a great squad player and an average\poor first XI player. The fact he can play wingback is a plus

bucketybuck

Trilla wrote: »

Chelsea are top of the league, Oscar has played in all but 2 games and has got 3 goals. Willian has 1 and has not played in 2 (he got 4 from 20 games or so last season). Are they not attacking then by that logic?

The question was does he attack no? Course he does if that was the question

Let me check something, am I really responding to somebody who thinks Antonio Valencia has been anything but pure pishwater for the last three seasons? Because I'm not sure I want to bother.

Nalz

bucketybuck wrote: »

Let me check something, am I really responding to somebody who thinks Antonio Valencia has been anything but pure pishwater for the last three seasons? Because I'm not sure I want to bother.

Yet you bothered to reply to others with irrelevant stats, which somehow prove he's attacking or not.

He's been poor the last 3 seasons of course. Only showed tiny glimpses of the Valencia we've seen before. In fact I'd go as far to say he's had 1 season and another half season where he's been in good\great form. Worth keeping for squad purposes I think.

Liam O

When Rafael plays behind Valencia he is more of an offensive threat than Valencia. Name one other winger at a top club you could say the same about? I can't believe people don't seem to notice his inability to get forward anymore. Do people not notice his passes back to the right back every game?

Cantona's Collars

Liam O wrote: »

When Rafael plays behind Valencia he is more of an offensive threat than Valencia. Name one other winger at a top club you could say the same about? I can't believe people don't seem to notice his inability to get forward anymore. Do people not notice his passes back to the right back every game?

Been saying this every time Val plays on the wing,the name Turn Back Tony has been so apt.

Pro. F

M!Ck^ wrote: »

A number that I used is in turn giving you the space for an argument. If I turned the figure of 20 into a 'solid run in team' what would a solid run consist of in your opinion?

Something like four games. That's the type of run that you would give any player before demanding that they find top form. Your suggestion that a United player must make himself undroppable in one or two games to justify his place in the team is obviously a lot different to that and not the yardstick by which you measure the other players at the club.

PhlegmyMoses

Nani would be a decent squad option, especially if it helps to keep Di Maria away from the wings. I actually think he'd fare better with the quality in this side than under Moyes.

That being said, I think some people remember his good days with rose tinted glasses. Sublime to the ridiculous in one game, he'd score a lovely chipped goal before doing a silly flick, breaking up an attack where we had loads of men committed forward allowing the other team to counter.

Nani is most certainly a valuable player, he is also incredibly frustrating over the course of 90 minutes.

Mantis Toboggan

bucketybuck wrote: »

By scuffing his shot and getting lucky? How did you think he got it?

Antonio Valencia, 2 league goals in 29 games last season, 1 from 30 the season before, he is indeed an attacking phenom.

I'm not saying that Valencia is brilliant, he's had a few bad seasons although he's played well recently. He's one dimensional and predictable.
What I was saying is that his much superior work rate and dedication had meant he stays in the squad and nani gets sent out on loan. It's no mystery of why Fergie, Moyes and now LVG have all favoured Valencia.

bucketybuck

Buddy Holly wrote: »

It's no mystery of why Fergie, Moyes and now LVG have all favoured Valencia.

Yes it is.

Smartarse answers aside, I think Antonio Valencia has been utterly blessed by circumstance in his time at the club. Performance wise he should have been turfed out years ago, but constant injury problems elsewhere have seen us forced to make use of him.

He hasn't been favoured by LVG for example, he has just been the last man standing.

KH25

Yeah valencias only getting a game this year because he's viewed as an auxiliary right back. Moyes played him because he's considered a defensive player and moyes set out the team not to lose rather than to win. Fergie in his prime wouldn't have settled for the performances Valencia put out in the last 3 years.

PhlegmyMoses

KH25 wrote: »

Yeah valencias only getting a game this year because he's viewed as an auxiliary right back. Moyes played him because he's considered a defensive player and moyes set out the team not to lose rather than to win. Fergie in his prime wouldn't have settled for the performances Valencia put out in the last 3 years.

Fergie would have felt that Valencia could get back to his player of the season form. Even under Fergie, he went from nailed on starter to oftebln being overlooked. The rot had set in then.

sky88

Nani wouldnt be a bad squad player to have has the pace we are lacking in the squad as a whole.

He can be as frustrating as hell but hes a better option than Valencia. Nani will always look to play forward wereas Val will look back on the majority of passes or do his favourite move of hitting the ball as hard as he can and hope for the best

PhlegmyMoses

sky88 wrote: »

Nani wouldnt be a bad squad player to have has the pace we are lacking in the squad as a whole.

He can be as frustrating as hell but hes a better option than Valencia. Nani will always look to play forward wereas Val will look back on the majority of passes or do his favourite move of hitting the ball as hard as he can and hope for the best

Exactly. If you have a game similar to the Crystal Palace game this year, Nani can drag you out of a hole with a mazy dribble or a thunderbastard of a shot. Guaranteed starter? No thanks. But a valuable squad member would be where I'd see him.

castletownman

I think one way to settle the Val-Nani arguement is to switch things around. Would Valencia be tearing the Portuguese league up (which Nani seems to be doing going by various accounts) and impressing in the CL had he being sent out on loan? Based on his regression the last few seasons I'd be inclined to say no.

But then again had Nani been around the current United squad in the exact same injury circumstances, I don't think he'd be deployed as a make-shift right back. But that's because he's poses far more of a threat as an out-an-out winger than Tony V. The first sign of the downfall of a winger's nous is when he is deployed more for his defensive qualities, ala Valencia.

Besides, people tend to focus way too more on the here and now, and devalue the fact Nani seems to be in flying form solely on the fact that the form is coinciding with his time on loan. Maybe, just maybe, he's showing he deserves an extended run on the wing, and would definitely take him back into the squad as the number one wing option.

Backstreet Moyes

I can take the fact that some people don't like Nani and find him frustrating.

But when your options are a younger more inconsistent winger who can;t cross and a winger who knows only one way to go and thats back the way then i find it laughable people don't want Nani back.

If we got in a good right winger i could understand the madness of not wanting him back in January. But to say he is not needed back with our current problems on the right wing is madness.