Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - See Mod Warning in OP, 09/11

homerjay2005

kryogen wrote: »

Was there a poster here years ago called SeanSouth or something like that or am I just losing my mind? Chap from Limerick (naturally)

yes, he is still here. he changed his usermane (as alot of people do) and now has a new account for last couple of years. he is a very regular poster.

in interest of charter and fairness i dont think its acceptable however to mention his name.

Nalz

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Number 10 or CAM... Who cares? It's still the same position, why bother arguing over the label?

We all know what position is being referred to when somebody says number 10.

Because he can and he will

The_Kew_Tour

No new injuries so far.

One round games to go.

Pro. F

homerjay2005 wrote: »

Mata/Kaawa are attacking midfielders, plain and simple.

the number 10 role has never been part of our DNA in the way people call it here- if you ever meet Ferguson ask him about false 9's or number 10's and see how far you get, in fact in his book he refers to kagawa as a midfielder and likewise nick powell, yet we have lads on here calling them number 10's.

Rooney and Mata are completely different players, im not sure why people keep comparing them. Rooney is a number 10 in the old fashioned style, playing just off a goal scoring striker (RVN, Saha, RVP) but is an out and out striker, not an attacking midfielder - they are completely different roles.

i would liken Matas role to that of lets say Silva at City. now Silva isnt a number 10 but he plays as an attacking midfielder behind Aguero and Dzeko for instance. Fernandinho and Toure do the holding, allowing Silva a free role.

when City are defending, he would be tasked with covering the left wing but the majority of his game is played drifting accross the entire midfield. thats what Mata should be doing, but he doesnt seem capable (or maybe isnt allowed to). the only reason it becomes Rooney V Mata is now due to Falcaos involvement, 4 into 3 positions wont go and there isnt much room for Mata in a 4-3-3 that requires speed - Rooney offers more of it than Mata so he is always going to be picked.

ive been doing my coaching badges for the past 2 years and have been mentored by a former United academy coach. i can be 100% sure that he has never once mentioned number 10 role to me in any session, discussion or analysis we have done. "playing in the hole" has been mentioned and would be more appropriate than this number 10 nonsense.

There's more than one way to name positions. The phrases "number 10", "attacking midfielder", "central attacking midfielder", "in the hole", "fantasista", "creative forward" and probably plenty more can all be used to describe the same position. Or they can be used to denote slightly different roles if you need to in a conversation, as long as you define what you're talking about.

I remember on this thread when we used to call the position CAM, but then that changed because mouth breathers would take issue with the word "midfielder" being there. Everybody on here who has been talking about Rooney and Mata playing at 10 knows exactly what they mean, there has been no confusion.

The reason people keep comparing Rooney and Mata is because they are currently competing for the same position. You shouldn't need that explained to you.

The idea that we should follow exactly the same naming system as Fergie or some ex United coach you met is pathetic. The fact that you take issue with people using a different naming system to the one you prefer, making sky sports references and calling it nonsnense, makes you look like an idiot.

homerjay2005 wrote: »

indeed, but in a completely different reference to what is being discussed on here. Denis Law was a "10", Rooney is a "10'". Juan Mata is not.

What you are talking about is a British naming convention, there is another use of the term "10" which is widely accepted. Everybody understands this except for you.

Kerrydude1981

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

No new injuries so far.

One round games to go.

As they said in Man About Dog,

Dont put the BLINK on it

kryogen

Mr_Red wrote: »

Does anyone have info on injury recovery within the Team?

No updates myself right now, but I just wanted to say that waiting until Monday is a pain in the hole for us, but has to be good for the team with more time to recover and get more training done.

kryogen

homerjay2005 wrote: »

yes, he is still here. he changed his usermane (as alot of people do) and now has a new account for last couple of years. he is a very regular poster.

in interest of charter and fairness i dont think its acceptable however to mention his name.

No it wouldn't be, it would be up to him to come forward of course, unless he or anybody else wanted to PM with his new identity naturally

Good to know I wasnt imagining it though.

Pro. F

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

I don't think anyone who understands the point of the positions would argue that Mata isn't a far better number 10 than Rooney

The thing is Rooney's talent can see him score a ton of goals from any attacking position he plays so he's pretty much unplayable, you have to have him on the pitch somewhere, and his work rate is immense

That is a tiny sample size you're working from and for a lot of that time Rooney has been playing as a striker. I would predict that if we had a good sample of games to compare them both in the same position, Rooney would have more successful passes but fewer chances created than Mata, a similar number of goals and then all the defensive stuff that he brings.

That sounds like Mata is the better 10, but with this particular formation (narrow and with two strikers) it might well be the case that it's worth losing some Mata creativity to gain Rooney's dynamism.

keane2097 wrote: »

I would guess that if you normalised those receiving the ball stats to take out instances of receiving the ball on the touchline the results might look a fair bit different.

Having said that, I haven't checked and probably won't so...

I wouldn't be sure of that. From what I see, Mata likes to pull wide regularly enough.

I couldn't be arsed checking just now either.

kryogen

Mata does like to pull wide, I think its instinctive for him, he started off as a winger really. He tends to pull to where the space is though I guess and give how narrow the team currently is formation wise the space tends to be a little bit wider. even at Chelsea though he would often pop up left or right and play a little through ball or one-two to get himself into a better position to shoot/pass

SherlockWatson

homerjay2005 wrote: »

do City play with a 10? no they dont. -
do Arsenal play with a 10? i dont think they do. - l.
Real Madrid? again, they dont. -
bayern? unless people call Mueller a 10, which he isnt, no they dont.

City - Silva
Arsenal - Ozil
Real Madrid - Isco/Kroos/James
Bayern - Gotze


If you're a "coach" as you say, and you don't understand the roles of the players above, then I worry for the teams you'll be coaching tbh.

Nalz

Stop feeding him will yis!

Any ideas what the starting lineup will be vs West brom? is Smalling or Evans likely to feature?

Juan Mata is a number 10, saw someone say he wasn't. Never mind about former coaches not mentioning number 10, Jose Mourinho specifically said Oscar was his preferred number 10 over Mata.
Here's a link to an article where he talks at length about Mata being a number 10 and playing/not playing in the position:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2427361/Jose-Mourinho-tells-Mata-Oscar-choice-No-10-Chelsea.html

Rooney plays number 10 for us in the same way Oscar does for Chelsea and it seems the reasons he's preferred over Mata are the same reasons Oscar was preferred over Mata. The defensive side of their game. I don't particular agree with the decision, because I think Mata looks for the pass in the final third more often than Rooney who is more likely to shoot. Also think Mata's first touch is better. This is critical IMO when you've got Rvp and Falcao waiting for a good ball.

But yeah, we do play the number 10 position, it might not be called that at Man Utd, but that's because "number 10" isn't the only name for it.

RGDATA!

homerjay2005 wrote: »

This "number 10" role has become the most annoying and over-analyised position in football at this stage.

People are giving it far too much reference especially at United - most clubs/coaches dont even use i and its generally a sky sports concept thats caught on.

The concept of a number 10 was around long before Sky. LVG has regularly used the term since taking over, so if he uses it himself when talking of his own team then it's relevant surely?

Rayne Wooney

So people are annoyed that we are using a term that our manager frequently uses because it is a fundamental part of his philosophy

Nalz

10

kryogen

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

So people are annoyed that we are using a term that our manager frequently uses because it is a fundamental part of his philosophy

Oh no, not "people"

One person. who of course probably represents the sentiments of all the real every match going United fans and not just the boards.ie user.........or not

Headshot

Trilla wrote: »

10

9

Giggsy11

Headshot wrote: »

9

'false'

evo2000

What do ye make of juan mata - vidal swap rumors?

Giggsy11

Giggsy11 wrote: »

'false'

trequartista


*runs*

The Moldy Gowl

Headshot wrote: »

9

8

The_Kew_Tour

Im only talking of few not so much people in here(1 or 2 maybe)

But they read a book like Inverting the Pyramid or they read a poster who seems to know his stuff in here follow him and lick his hole and all of sudden they think they are The Special One.

When people say things like "You are most dangerous just after you score"(its the first that came on top of my head) then you are talking bollocks because the facts say so.

Headshot

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

8

7

SherlockWatson

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Im only talking of few not so much people in here(1 or 2 maybe)

But they read a book like Inverting the Pyramid or they read a poster who seems to know his stuff in here follow him and lick his hole and all of sudden they think they are The Special One.

When people say things like "You are most dangerous just after you score"(its the first that came on top of my head) then you are talking bollocks because the facts say so.

Name them, you did this shít the other day about re-reg's and blew the thread way off topic again, either name them or say nothing, this vague bullshít does nothing but cause a mess.

Donnielighto

In football manager I tend to use a shadow striker in behind a complete forward or an advanced forward. I usually play with a winger wide right and an inside forward wide left. In midfield I mix is up a little, always use a box to box role but it can be paired with a deep lying playmaker, advanced playmaker, cnetral midfielder or even a ball winning midfielder. The backline is two centre backs (i used to use one ball playing centre back but I found you'd get caught out as he stepped up) two complete full backs operate down the side and overlap. Keeper, not sweeper kepper(thats a terrible idea)

If I have an injury in the line of 3 a less pacey advanced playmaker is an option.

Poacher, false 9, libero, sweeper, wide midfielder, half back.

Regista

Vic Vinegar

Trilla wrote: »

Stop feeding him will yis!

Any ideas what the starting lineup will be vs West brom? is Smalling or Evans likely to feature?

Jones is back, Smalling too, Evans won't be ready afaik.

SherlockWatson

Donnielighto wrote: »

In football manager I tend to use a shadow striker in behind a complete forward or an advanced forward. I usually play with a winger wide right and an inside forward wide left. In midfield I mix is up a little, always use a box to box role but it can be paired with a deep lying playmaker, advanced playmaker, cnetral midfielder or even a ball winning midfielder. The backline is two centre backs (i used to use one ball playing centre back but I found you'd get caught out as he stepped up) two complete full backs operate down the side and overlap. Keeper, not sweeper kepper(thats a terrible idea)

If I have an injury in the line of 3 a less pacey advanced playmaker is an option.

Poacher, false 9, libero, sweeper, wide midfielder, half back.

You forgot Regista :pac:

bucketybuck

Trilla wrote: »

Stop feeding him will yis!

kryogen wrote: »

Oh no, not "people"

One person.

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Im only talking of few not so much people in here(1 or 2 maybe)

At least have the balls to say who you are talking about.

Donnielighto

SherlockWatson wrote: »

You forgot Regista :pac:

Ha, I edited it before I saw the reply :D Only use that away from home when you need to be more patient on the ball, naturally :P

Donnielighto

bucketybuck wrote: »

At least have the balls to say who you are talking about.

Candlejack

KH25

Christ this place gets unbearable sometimes. The bickering is just ridiculous. Roll on the PL so we can get back to talking about matches!

SherlockWatson

Just threw on the Hong Kong and Argentina game, no sign of Di Maria or Rojo, thank fook.

Billy86

Michel Platini is possibly the prototypical #10 of the modern era, and has an argument as being the best ever player who spent their whole career in that role (whereas Pele and Maradona played other positions at many times). He also kind of retired half a decade before Sky Sports came about.

The Moldy Gowl

Headshot wrote: »

7

6

The Moldy Gowl

Billy86 wrote: »

Michel Platini is possibly the prototypical #10 of the modern era, and has an argument as being the best ever player who spent their whole career in that role (whereas Pele and Maradona played other positions at many times). He also kind of retired half a decade before Sky Sports came about.

Thats a mighty fine big fancy word for a tuesday

Billy86

Bombleswizzum wrote: »

Jones is back, Smalling too, Evans won't be ready afaik.

Now the question is, which one gets injured between the 30th and 60th minutes? I think it's McNair's time if he is playing, most likely Smalling otherwise.

Billy86

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

Thats a mighty fine big fancy word for a tuesday

Alright, alright. The big main 'zample of a #10.

Vic Vinegar

Billy86 wrote: »

Now the question is, which one gets injured between the 30th and 60th minutes? I think it's McNair's time if he is playing, most likely Smalling otherwise.

McNair is out with a hamstring injury already!

Billy86

Bombleswizzum wrote: »

McNair is out with a hamstring injury already!

Damn international breaks are making me lose track of laundry list of injuries!

Vic Vinegar

Billy86 wrote: »

Damn international breaks are making me lose track of laundry list of injuries!

This is a good site for keeping track of injuries

Physioroom

kryogen

Donnielighto wrote: »

In football manager I tend to use a shadow striker in behind a complete forward or an advanced forward. I usually play with a winger wide right and an inside forward wide left. In midfield I mix is up a little, always use a box to box role but it can be paired with a deep lying playmaker, advanced playmaker, cnetral midfielder or even a ball winning midfielder. The backline is two centre backs (i used to use one ball playing centre back but I found you'd get caught out as he stepped up) two complete full backs operate down the side and overlap. Keeper, not sweeper kepper(thats a terrible idea)

When I am playing with one out and out striker, depending on who it is I like to use a poacher or a complete forward. I like to have a tight support line made up of a Trequartista, an Attacking Midfielder and an Advanced Playmaker, depending on personnel I may also include an Enganche, for the record Juan Mata makes an excellent one as he enters his thirties

In midfield I also like a box to box and tend to have him paired with a Deep Lying Playmaker, to compensate for the lack of natural width from the forwards I like to use my full backs set to Complete Wing Backs

kryogen

Bombleswizzum wrote: »

McNair is out with a hamstring injury already!

That was the day he became a true first team defender.

kryogen

bucketybuck wrote: »

At least have the balls to say who you are talking about.

Pretty ****ing clear who I am talking about given that I responded directly to him already on the matter. The post you decided to quote is one to dispel any idea that "people" are banging on about it, it wasn't people. It was one person, too often everyone gets lumped in to one category because someone posts rubbish. Save your talk of having balls for someone who bothers trying to hide who he talks about.

Nalz

bucketybuck wrote: »

At least have the balls to say who you are talking about.

Homerjay2005

not that it matters, I always had the balls! just scratched them three hours ago. Where are we in secondary school?

Anyways lets get back to talking about United.

Team predictions for West Brom game?

Headshot

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

6

5

Mitch Connor

Headshot wrote: »

5

Jones.
Shaw.
Rafael.
De Gea.

Cantona's Collars

2 friendlies in January?? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2792249/manchester-united-eye-january-date-lucrative-overseas-friendly.html

bucketybuck

kryogen wrote: »

Save your talk of having balls for someone who bothers trying to hide who he talks about.

Your post was the sort of passive aggressive bullshit that makes this thread a chore sometimes. Getting a dig in at a poster without even speaking to him directly, along with that tiresome strikethrough rubbish.

Added to the other posts I quoted it appears we are bang on course for another Homerjay pile-on and who the **** wants to read that.

kryogen wrote: »

Oh no, not "people"

One person. who of course probably represents the sentiments of all the real every match going United fans and not just the boards.ie user.........or not

The Moldy Gowl

Headshot wrote: »

5

4

Headshot

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

4

3