Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - See Mod Warning in OP, 09/11

FutureGuy

Mitch Connor wrote: »

That City game really fecked him over.

He was very good against Chelsea, Arsenal and at the weekend, heard he was good for England too - if he'd played vs City as he did vs Chelsea (or just not got himself sent off!) I reckon people would be wondering if he is developing into the CB some (well, me) thought he was becoming a few seasons back.

Hopefully he can continue to play to his best - cause he is, imo, a very good CB when on form.

I have to agree. I felt United knew they had the beating of City and the blood went to the head as little with that lunge. It was like they decided they were tired of being bullied for years and they finally had the players to bully back.

A consistently solid Smalling would be great for us over Christmas.

Crimson King

Loved Smalling a few seasons back, and I am happy that he is looking back to his best. He should have it all, is 6 '4, fast and decent in the air. However like Jones he is far too injury prone and undependable because of this.

I like Godin, and looking at his stats, over the previous 6 seasons he has played in 30+ league matches on 4 occasions. That's impressive and exactly what is needed at the club, some stability and knowing one of your back 3/4 has a chance of playing more than 2 games in a row without going missing for a few weeks. It's one of the reasons I think Hummels might be a no for the club, he would cost more than Godin and the last 2 seasons has missed a lot of football.

NoviGlitzko

I agree, and Smalling makes less mistakes than Jones to boot IMO. I really like him as a player and with more games under their belt together Rojo & him could become very solid.

Liam O

Smalling doesn't have the composure or ball skills to be a top CB. Fine as 3rd or 4th choice but against a team that presses high he is constantly laboured on the ball and just hoofs it forward. Jones isn't great in this regard either though he can drive forward very well with the ball. Evans and Rojo together for a few games is something I'd be very interested in. Though Evans would have to have time to get upto speed which is something that can't really be afforded right now I guess.

Giggsy11

Liam O wrote: »

Smalling doesn't have the composure or ball skills to be a top CB. Fine as 3rd or 4th choice but against a team that presses high he is constantly laboured on the ball and just hoofs it forward. Jones isn't great in this regard either though he can drive forward very well with the ball. Evans and Rojo together for a few games is something I'd be very interested in. Though Evans would have to have time to get upto speed which is something that can't really be afforded right now I guess.

Vidic was even worse on the ball than Smalling and that never stopped him from becoming the best CB in the world.

Also both Evans and Rojo are not very good at heading the ball but both very good with ball at their feet. So we would have hard time dealing long balls if both starts.

Ideally Smalling Rojo combination ticks all the boxes.

Mitch Connor

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Vidic was even worse on the ball than Smalling and that never stopped him from becoming the best CB in the world.

Also both Evans and Rojo are not very good at heading the ball but both very good with ball at their feet. So we would have hard time dealing long balls if both starts.

Ideally Smalling Rojo combination ticks all the boxes.

Problem is they are both attacking defenders - which can mean space is left behind. Jones is the same, as was VIdic. Rio was a great covering defender, and was the reason Vidic could feel confident about attacking the ball further up the pitch - if it went past him Rio would generally be there to take control.

Liam O

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Vidic was even worse on the ball than Smalling and that never stopped him from becoming the best CB in the world.

Also both Evans and Rojo are not very good at heading the ball but both very good with ball at their feet. So we would have hard time dealing long balls if both starts.

Ideally Smalling Rojo combination ticks all the boxes.

Vidic was never bad with the ball at his feet. He could control and play a pass very easily in a short amount of time. With Smalling and Jones their first touch cripples them a lot and they don't have either the skill or the stones to play their way out of trouble so it either gets hoofed up or a bad ball back to De Gea. Vidic and Rio would rarely have to go back to the keeper. They did a lot of hoofing but that was bad tactics and midfielders.

I've not noticed a problem with Rojo in the air though he is a bit shorter than you'd want. With Fellaini and Carrick in the team you have the the people to deal with set pieces, that's not counting RVP and Falcao who are both good aerial players so the need for someone who is dominant there, which I wouldn't say Smalling is anyway, is reduced and for a top team having 2 CBs capable of bringing the ball out is much needed.

Giggsy11

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Problem is they are both attacking defenders - which can mean space is left behind. Jones is the same, as was VIdic. Rio was a great covering defender, and was the reason Vidic could feel confident about attacking the ball further up the pitch - if it went past him Rio would generally be there to take control.

I don't see Smalling as attacking defender. He in many ways remind me of Rio except his ability on the ball.

I would say Smalling and Evans are similar, they are covering defenders. Just that Smalling is dominant aerially and has good physical strenght whereas Evans has got ability on the ball.

Rojo and Jones are attacking defenders, they puch higher up to win the ball back.

In FM terms, Smalling and Evans are with role Cover whereas Rojo and Jones are stoppers.

Giggsy11

Liam O wrote: »

Vidic was never bad with the ball at his feet. He could control and play a pass very easily in a short amount of time. With Smalling and Jones their first touch cripples them a lot and they don't have either the skill or the stones to play their way out of trouble so it either gets hoofed up or a bad ball back to De Gea. Vidic and Rio would rarely have to go back to the keeper. They did a lot of hoofing but that was bad tactics and midfielders.

I've not noticed a problem with Rojo in the air though he is a bit shorter than you'd want. With Fellaini and Carrick in the team you have the the people to deal with set pieces, that's not counting RVP and Falcao who are both good aerial players so the need for someone who is dominant there, which I wouldn't say Smalling is anyway, is reduced and for a top team having 2 CBs capable of bringing the ball out is much needed.

I disagree with the first paragrpah. Vidic played lot of back passes to keeper and when under pressure he didn't even play back pass, he just kicked the ball out many times. He had good first touch and when given time he played few nice passes but anyone close to him he just kicked the ball aimlessly or just played the ball out.

Having 2 CBs who are good defenders and good with the ball is awesome but defending is key IMO. So we can compensate with 1 very good ball playing defender and 1 very good CB. Also Smalling deals with physical players lot better whereas Evans just can't get near them.

beno619

Its all about confidence on form Vidic was very comfortable on the ball and his long passing was fantastic, better than Rio's at times, then his last season in out of the side/injured and probably low on confidence it all fell apart.

With a run of games Smalling and Jones have looked excellent on the ball at times. Its about getting them in the side for a prolonged period of time.

No match thread yet? Somebody get on it! Preferably if you have a 100% record

Sacramento

Sacramento wrote: »

No match thread yet? Somebody get on it! Preferably if you have a 100% record

I will kick one off so :pac:

Pro. F

GSPfan wrote: »

Regarding the recipes:

Is there a thread you can discuss them on are is it totally banned?

I ask cause I actually hate watching matches these days in standard definition never mind on a blurry stream. I'm a HD fanatic.

All that talk is banned on boards. Reddit is a good place to search for content and discussion that isn't allowed on boards, as is the case with streams. But you won't get free reliable HD streams anywhere imo, even if they are advertised as such. Even the paid stuff has reliability issues when in HD in my experience. The paid SD experience is the best imo.

Pro. F

I'm impressed with Rojo as well. He seems to have all the physical and mental attributes needed to be top class.

I think all of Rojo, Jones, Smalling and Evans have good skill on the ball - certainly more than Vidic ever had imo. Evans is the only one who I have seen being consistently weak in the air. I haven't noticed Rojo having that problem, like others have said, so I'll have to keep an eye out for it.

I've never understood how people don't rate Smalling and Jones highly. Imo it's only the injuries holding them back, but the injuries are definitely a mark against them. If they can't stay fit then they will have to be let go eventually.

I think Blackett and McNair have looked very impressive as well.

Overall I think we have oodles of quality in our defence and it's just the injuries and, to a lesser extent, the management that have caused the problems at the back. Hopefully some suitable pair of centre-backs can get a run of fitness together and we see what they and the coach can produce when tested.

Pro. F

Pro. F wrote: »

I'm impressed with Rojo as well. He seems to have all the physical and mental attributes needed to be top class.

I think all of Rojo, Jones, Smalling and Evans have good skill on the ball - certainly more than Vidic ever had imo. Evans is the only one who I have seen being consistently weak in the air. I haven't noticed Rojo having that problem, like others have said, so I'll have to keep an eye out for it.

I've never understood how people don't rate Smalling and Jones highly. Imo it's only the injuries holding them back, but the injuries are definitely a mark against them. If they can't stay fit then they will have to be let go eventually.

I think Blackett and McNair have looked very impressive as well.

Overall I think we have oodles of quality in our defence and it's just the injuries and, to a lesser extent, the management that have caused the problems at the back. Hopefully some suitable pair of centre-backs can get a run of fitness together and we see what they and the coach can produce when tested.

I really like Rojo's attitude. Looks proud to put on the Man Utd jersey.

As for Smalling & Jones I personally have always rated them.
However for some it's an issue with consistency due to multiple cases of injury.
I feel both players never get a fair look because of this.
Basing there performances on one or two games then they get injured again.
Easier to highlight the negative aspect of a player if you only get to see them play in short bursts.

From a technical aspect and in particular Smalling (Reminds me of Rio in his prime) there excellent.

Only negative I can say about Jones is that he needs to learn when he should and should not overcommit in a tackle.

adox

The issue I have with Rojo at the moment is, from what I`ve seen of him in a Utd jersey he has some great attributes, hes quick and he is fantastic on the ball and very composed with the ball at his feet under pressure, but the wealest part of his game for me is defending. Hes not comfortable under the high ball at all and also for a strong looking guy can get brushed aside easily. Id also question his positional sense.

He is a very likable player though and does seem to give everything in every game. too early to be making a call on him but the defending would worry me.

Giggsy11

Pro. F wrote: »

I'm impressed with Rojo as well. He seems to have all the physical and mental attributes needed to be top class.

I think all of Rojo, Jones, Smalling and Evans have good skill on the ball - certainly more than Vidic ever had imo. Evans is the only one who I have seen being consistently weak in the air. I haven't noticed Rojo having that problem, like others have said, so I'll have to keep an eye out for it.

He is not as weak, just I don't think he is as strong as Smalling or Vidic (I know no one is). Aerial duel win% stat also won't tell completely story as it won't tell against which player the duel was won.

For me it's Smalling>Jones>Rojo>Evans when it comes to heading the ball.

SpuddMurphy

Is the match on tele tonight?

Vic Vinegar

SpuddMurphy wrote: »

Is the match on tele tonight?

Not on any Sky channels, alternate means must be sourced, or watch extended highlights at 10pm on Sky Sports red button.

Cantona's Collars

3 United games on Setanta/BT this month,get if for €1 for the month here:

http://www.setanta.com/ie/subscribe-flat/index.html

TheDoc

Pro. F wrote: »

I'm impressed with Rojo as well. He seems to have all the physical and mental attributes needed to be top class.

I think all of Rojo, Jones, Smalling and Evans have good skill on the ball - certainly more than Vidic ever had imo. Evans is the only one who I have seen being consistently weak in the air. I haven't noticed Rojo having that problem, like others have said, so I'll have to keep an eye out for it.

I've never understood how people don't rate Smalling and Jones highly. Imo it's only the injuries holding them back, but the injuries are definitely a mark against them. If they can't stay fit then they will have to be let go eventually.

I think Blackett and McNair have looked very impressive as well.

Overall I think we have oodles of quality in our defence and it's just the injuries and, to a lesser extent, the management that have caused the problems at the back. Hopefully some suitable pair of centre-backs can get a run of fitness together and we see what they and the coach can produce when tested.

Agree with this. I don't think it was so obvious as people make out we needed to buy a CB.

Some serious punditry hindsight going on, which is easy to do when you see the injuries we have. But a collection of Smalling, Jones, Rojo and Evans should have been more than sufficent to enable the team to be assured at the back to challenge for top 4. The emergence of Blackett and McNair has been nothing short of a wonderful bonus.

That is a pretty good Centre Back lineup. Sure it would be nice to have a flashy big name in there, but there is few and far between stand out CB's left in elite world football, and I don't think it's as obvious a problem we overlooked as people make out.

Smalling looking promising lately, but consistency really needs to become a staple of his game now to really show hes becoming more then a potential player. Jones I feel really needs to hit a run of games where he doesn't injure himself.

We have a coach that made Ron Vlaar look like one of the best CB's in the world, I've confidence he might make Jones and Smalling realise their potential.

Giggsy11

Would love to see Falcao starting and maybe come off at around 60th min mark. Home game vs Stoke who are missing few players should be a good game to start and build up match fitness and sharpness.

De Gea

Valencia Smalling Rojo Young

Carrick

Fellaini Herrera

Mata

Rooney Falcao

Not sure how they line up or what position they will take but would love to see this team today.

Vic Vinegar

So who would be the first choice CB pairing when everyone is fit?

It would be Jones - Rojo for me. Jones was doing very well earlier this before he got injured.

Liam O

Giggsy11 wrote: »

He is not as weak, just I don't think he is as strong as Smalling or Vidic (I know no one is). Aerial duel win% stat also won't tell completely story as it won't tell against which player the duel was won.

For me it's Smalling>Jones>Rojo>Evans when it comes to heading the ball.

I've never noticed Smalling to be a standout in the air tbh. Jones has had some Vidic-esque games in that respect though. Smalling's issue on the ball may be nerves but so many times he's just looked uncomfortable with it. Maybe it's the disappointment with him not improving from a very strong start and going backwards in ways that's in my mind now.

Evans' issues in the air are hugely overstated imo. He's done fine for years against brutes in the PL. I guess at United you are more scrutinised and one mistake from a defender lives long in the memory but yeah if they could stay fit I would see United as the 3rd best central defense in the league at the moment after Chelsea and a fully fit Arsenal. City only really have Kompany there with Mangala finding his feet and the others out of favour. If is a word that is plaguing both United and Arsenal this season though

Spud83

I would argue against Falcao starting for the same reason I argued against taking RVP off at the weekend. He has just scored and got a boost to his confidence which taking him off or not starting tonight will negatively affect. Same team as the weekend should play tonight with only the Herrera for Di Maria enforced change happening. Lets try get some consistency before we go messing with the team.

Vic Vinegar

Spud83 wrote: »

I would argue against Falcao starting for the same reason I argued against taking RVP off at the weekend. He has just scored and got a boost to his confidence which taking him off or not starting tonight will negatively affect. Same team as the weekend should play tonight with only the Herrera for Di Maria enforced change happening. Lets try get some consistency before we go messing with the team.

I'd rather go with our strongest team possible, Falcao is better than RvP (when fully fit) but he won't get fully fit if we don't play him.

The_Kew_Tour

I'm looking forward to tonight.

Confident too.

The_Kew_Tour

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I'm looking forward to tonight.

Confident too.

I wish I could watch the bloody thing. Listening to MUTV on Saturday was painful.

Cantona's Collars

M!Ck^ wrote: »

I wish I could watch the bloody thing. Listening to MUTV on Saturday was painful.

PM sent.;)

I'm working so it'll be Newstalk for updates & highlights later.

Tom.D.BJJ

zerks wrote: »

PM sent.;)

I'm working so it'll be Newstalk for updates & highlights later.

Can i get one too?

Headshot

Cant wait for tonight.

Come on utd.

You know what lads, I just enjoy watching is alot recently. I know its alot of work to be done but I can see the difference.

I wish I never have to remember last season ever again.

Your Airbag

Di Maria's wife is a tier 1 source Small hamstring tear

SpuddMurphy

Headshot wrote: »

Cant wait for tonight.

Come on utd.

You know what lads, I just enjoy watching is alot recently. I know its alot of work to be done but I can see the difference.

I wish I never have to remember last season ever again.

Enjoying it myself, even the games we haven't won but played some good football, sort out that defence and we're laughing.
Also have that feeling back when no matter how late it is in the game I think we're going to score and get a result..

Bombleswizzum

Bombleswizzum wrote: »

So who would be the first choice CB pairing when everyone is fit?

It would be Jones - Rojo for me. Jones was doing very well earlier this before he got injured.

Smalling has to be there based on form if you ask me. I've always rated him, felt he would be our next star defender. You can check my post history on him!

SpuddMurphy

SpuddMurphy wrote: »

Enjoying it myself, even the games we haven't won but played some good football, sort out that defence and we're laughing.
Also have that feeling back when no matter how late it is in the game I think we're going to score and get a result..

For me; It's the visible improvement in both the way in which we are playing attacking football again and also the squad performance / moral that has re-surfaced.

Mitch Connor

i actually think at times it has been as bad as last season in terms of play - though that is mainly the Palace game...

What is a big thing for me this season is it looks like there is a belief, passion and hunger back in the side. The defeat to City wasn't a capitulation, a draw would have been no more than deserved. The battling against Chelsea the same. The performance vs Arsenal given the state of the side. THere seems to be a real team spirit again, and that was missing last season.

Giggsy11

Liam O wrote: »

I've never noticed Smalling to be a standout in the air tbh. Jones has had some Vidic-esque games in that respect though. Smalling's issue on the ball may be nerves but so many times he's just looked uncomfortable with it. Maybe it's the disappointment with him not improving from a very strong start and going backwards in ways that's in my mind now.

Evans' issues in the air are hugely overstated imo. He's done fine for years against brutes in the PL. I guess at United you are more scrutinised and one mistake from a defender lives long in the memory but yeah if they could stay fit I would see United as the 3rd best central defense in the league at the moment after Chelsea and a fully fit Arsenal. City only really have Kompany there with Mangala finding his feet and the others out of favour. If is a word that is plaguing both United and Arsenal this season though

I think apart from against Villa (Benteke) I always find Smalling comfortable against physical players. This is something that is against Evans as he is the one who struggles most with physical players.

I was a big fan of Evans but when he played with Vidic as Vidic dealt with long balls all day.

Also re Smalling when we signed him he looked very comfortable on the ball but later on he regressed so much. Not sure if this has to do with him playing as full back when his confidence was shot to bits.

M!Ck^ wrote: »

For me; It's the visible improvement in both the way in which we are playing attacking football again and also the squad performance / moral that has re-surfaced.

It's so obvious that ManUtd improved this year but the obvious people (other fans and too very specific few on boards) bring up points tally to sell their nonsense.

Liam O

Giggsy11 wrote: »

It's so obvious that ManUtd improved this year but the obvious people (other fans and too very specific few on boards) bring up points tally to sell their nonsense.

A few weeks ago I thought it would be a long time before I seen a performance like the one against Hull out of United. I was shocked similar to how I was against Swansea on the first day but for opposite reasons. Still I think a lot are forgetting the money spent was obviously going to make a difference.

If Nani was to come back in good form and another winger was signed then it's only right back that needs to be urgently addressed imo. The squad is already nearly there I think it's just getting them to play consistently well that's the problem now, and yeah actually getting them onto the field would be a start

bucketybuck

Liam O wrote: »

If Nani was to come back in good form and another winger was signed then it's only right back that needs to be urgently addressed imo. The squad is already nearly there I think it's just getting them to play consistently well that's the problem now, and yeah actually getting them onto the field would be a start

I really wish people wouldn't get so carried away after a win.

I enjoyed the comfortable performance too, it was a welcome relief, but the squad still isn't there to get us back to the top where we belong, we still aren't good enough to win the league or the Champions league.

Midfield is better than it was, but it can still be better again. The defence can be better. The form of a lot of our expensive attackers needs to improve quite a bit. The squad is not there yet, and a win against a woeful Hull side shouldn't hide that.

It is nice to control a game again though.

Delboy5

Hearing Herrera and Wilson starting tonight as changes from weekends game....

RobertKK

Slightly off topic...

Stephanie Roche who is up for goal of the year in the Puskas awards is a Man United fan.
She certainly worked hard plus trained hard and had no better team to inspire her.

Hopefully Stephanie and Van Persie are the top two.

Delboy5

Delboy5 wrote: »

Hearing Herrera and Wilson starting tonight as changes from weekends game....

4-4-2?? Or RVP dropped?? I would have expected RVP not to be dropped based on his improvement last weekend.

It's possible that there's some rest needed for some players that might be carrying minor knocks. Rooney might sit it out to fully recover from that bang on the knee he got for instance.

PhlegmyMoses

Sacramento wrote: »

It's possible that there's some rest needed for some players that might be carrying minor knocks. Rooney might sit it out to fully recover from that bang on the knee he got for instance.

I think Rooney will play if fit because LVG will fancy his physicality against Stoke.

Liam O

bucketybuck wrote: »

I really wish people wouldn't get so carried away after a win.

I enjoyed the comfortable performance too, it was a welcome relief, but the squad still isn't there to get us back to the top where we belong, we still aren't good enough to win the league or the Champions league.

Midfield is better than it was, but it can still be better again. The defence can be better. The form of a lot of our expensive attackers needs to improve quite a bit. The squad is not there yet, and a win against a woeful Hull side shouldn't hide that.

It is nice to control a game again though.

A midfield 2 out of Herrera, Di Maria and Fellaini is pretty damn good. No better set of strikers in the league and that's not counting Mata there too. Blind and Carrick could be upgraded on but they're no slouches. The best young LB in world football and a defense that's looked impressive despite a horrible injury crisis. A goalkeeper second to only Courtois in the PL too.

The ingredients are there. It's the recipe that has to be refined and it's getting better as the weeks go on.

madcabbage

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

I think Rooney will play if fit because LVG will fancy his physicality against Stoke.

He should be rested I think. Better for him to shake off the knock then risk another injury. Put him on the bench as impact sub if required.

PhlegmyMoses

madcabbage wrote: »

He should be rested I think. Better for him to shake off the knock then risk another injury. Put him on the bench as impact sub if required.

It's him or Mata, isn't it? I'd have had the Stoke game down as a must play for Rooney, ahead of Mata.

Soldie

Your Airbag wrote: »

Di Maria's wife is a tier 1 source Small hamstring tear

¡Ay ay ay, no es bueno!

Hococop

What does a small tear equal to in weeks out?

Whatsisname

Apparently Rooney is out, according to SSN and Wilson is in.