Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - See Mod Warning in OP, 09/11

keane2097

Lindegard was always levels off De Gea, Fergie dropping De Gea for him was lol.

Rob Thomas

I think to be fair there were times it was right to take DeGea out for his own development. He was a very young guy in a new country and while he had all the talent to make it, physically he was a tall boy rather than the big man he has become.

It's widely known that the coaches worked him hard to build him up for the physicality of England. So I imagine there were times during this period when he might not have been quite right to play.

Confidence is everything for keepers so it was right to take him out of games he was going to be intimidated in.

It's certainly not happening now.

I really hope we can hang on to him. It's going to be a huge test of LVG and Woodward when the time comes.

advertsfox

Rob Thomas wrote: »

It's widely known that the coaches worked him hard to build him up for the physicality of England...

So true, he's bulked something fierce for a keeper too.

The Moldy Gowl

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I would respect Southampton, but in no way would I fear them.

A point would not be a disaster, but a win be huge going into that game following weekend.

If Rooney is back I be very confident of a win.

Looks like they may have few out too.

I think we need to respect all the teams in the league. Look at what happened last year when they thought they just had to show up and they will win.

Leicester this year to a certain degree. Every team is capable of beating any team if we give them space and go easy. We are seen as vulnerable and now teams will commit a few more forward.

beno619

keane2097 wrote: »

Lindegard was always levels off De Gea, Fergie dropping De Gea for him was lol.

Na there were definitely times De Gea needed to be taken out of the firing line and back up keepers need games so..

wadacrack

De Gea was eating too many tackos and lifestyle was an issue according to Eric Steele..him and Courtouis probably two of the best in the EPL now

kryogen

wadacrack wrote: »

De Gea was eating too many tackos and lifestyle was an issue according to Eric Steele..him and Courtouis probably two of the best in the EPL now

When did Steele say this?

Edit: Its cool I checked, last september What an odd thing to say, such a skinny kid eats too many tacos!

Him enjoying his siesta and eating late in the evening I would expect from a Spanish youngster coming over but that someone that slight would eat too many tacos is highly amusing to me

wadacrack

kryogen wrote: »

When did Steele say this?

Edit: Its cool I checked, last september What an odd thing to say, such a skinny kid eats too many tacos!

Most have swapped the tackos for the protein shakes

A Brad Maddox Guy

Fergie managed De Gea brilliantly imo. Took him out of the firing line to shield him from media frenzy whenever he made big mistakes. The fact he's since developed into one of the world's best is no reason to say his development was hindered by Fergie. If anything it avoided any possibility of him cracking under intense media pressure at the time.

Maximus Alexander

I recall some games early on where De Gea was getting bullied and pushed around when going for the ball from set pieces, there was definitely an issue with his physicality and the opposition knew it. It was always very obvious that he was going to become a super keeper, but I think in certain games it may have made sense to put Anders in. I'd probably have to go back and watch some old matches though if I wanted to try to back that up, and I'm probably not going to.

The Moldy Gowl

Th Liverpool game will be great craic next week if we beat Southampton.
Liverpool have 2 games before it though which is nice.

The match thread will be so snipey.

kryogen

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

I recall some games early on where De Gea was getting bullied and pushed around when going for the ball from set pieces, there was definitely an issue with his physicality and the opposition knew it. It was always very obvious that he was going to become a super keeper, but I think in certain games it may have made sense to put Anders in. I'd probably have to go back and watch some old matches though if I wanted to try to back that up, and I'm probably not going to.

Its not the initial shielding I took issue with, its the subsequent ones.

Your Airbag

Fergie didn't **** DDG around. DDG made mistakes and was taken out of the team. Cause and effect. At that time we had no idea what DDG would go on to be because there were no guarantees he would go on to be a great player.

Fergie sent him a message. Its a tough league and UTD is a top club. Your as prone to getting axed as the next man. I'm sure Fergie said don't worry too much about what the press will say but you'll have to work harder behind the scenes and improve because your a little off the pace right now and that is exactly what happened.

Had Fergie just left him in at no.1 after those mistakes what motivation for DDG to improve if he is undroppable?

Nothing wrong with Fergie taking him out.

bangkok

A Brad Maddox Guy wrote: »

Fergie managed De Gea brilliantly imo. Took him out of the firing line to shield him from media frenzy whenever he made big mistakes. The fact he's since developed into one of the world's best is no reason to say his development was hindered by Fergie. If anything it avoided any possibility of him cracking under intense media pressure at the time.

yes agree 100% with this, no hiding places for keepers and de gea was getting slated by the press and then Gary Neville went over the top with his criticism after the spurs game. Fergie was right to give him a mental break, managed him perfectly and now has developed into the keeper we all hoped.

I bet Mignolet at Liverpool would love if he was taken out for a few games now as well take some pressure off him

kryogen

Your Airbag wrote: »

Fergie didn't **** DDG around. DDG made mistakes and was taken out of the team. Cause and effect. At that time we had no idea what DDG would go on to be because there were no guarantees he would go on to be a great player.

Fergie sent him a message. Its a tough league and UTD is a top club. Your as prone to getting axed as the next man. I'm sure Fergie said don't worry too much about what the press will say but you'll have to work harder behind the scenes and improve because your a little off the pace right now and that is exactly what happened.

Had Fergie just left him in at no.1 after those mistakes what motivation for DDG to improve if he is undroppable?

Nothing wrong with Fergie taking him out.

It would show he had faith in him
It would reassure him that he wasn't in some precarious position straight off that bat just because he had a big transfer fee attached
It would show understanding that he was new to the league and still a baby in goalkeeping terms and that he would be given the time to learn from the errors
Schmeichel had a very dodgy start, he wasn't ****ed around with and it worked out fine, seemed motivated to improve himself anyway

Like I said, I have no issue with the initial shielding, its the ****ing him around after I wasn't fond of. He would come in, play like a bag of nerves in fear of being hooked for the next game, perform alright and still miss out on the next game anyway!

If Fergie was as tough with under performing players or player who kept making errors as you say he was, "nobody is above the axe" then how would you explain Patrice Evra being undroppable? Valencia?

Why did he persist with Evra and Vidic when they had rocky starts? Players need to grow and learn from mistakes they make, they only way they can do that is to be able to play without fear of being left out for any perceived error they make.

Its not like Fergie never hampered a players development before like, I am not exactly claiming to have split the atom with this opinion.

For the record, I am also ok with people holding the opposing opinion to me, doesn't bother me in the slightest you are fully entitled to think how you like about it.

kryogen

bangkok wrote: »

yes agree 100% with this, no hiding places for keepers and de gea was getting slated by the press and then Gary Neville went over the top with his criticism after the spurs game. Fergie was right to give him a mental break, managed him perfectly and now has developed into the keeper we all hoped.

I bet Mignolet at Liverpool would love if he was taken out for a few games now as well take some pressure off him

This would go contrary to the views of Eric Steele who is on record as saying absolutely nothing phases De Gea, spoke in glowing terms of his mental strength, particularly in one so young, he has that rare quality to just take whatever comes in his stride, playing in front of 76,000 people at 19? No problem.

If he was that mentally fragile he would not make it as a goalkeeper anyway.

RVD420

Anyone reckon that story about Rojo's house cleaner "leaking" his payslip is true? With all due respect to Rojo, £200k a week is lunacy. Surely that's over double what the likes of Jones, Smalling, Evans are earning per week?

(givemesport:o ) Link

kryogen

Im not even clicking the link because I can tell you, for a fact, Marcos Rojo does not earn 200k a week

SpuddMurphy

kryogen wrote: »

Im not even clicking the link because I can tell you, for a fact, Marcos Rojo does not earn 200k a week

Agreed, would want to be an idiot to believe it

The Moldy Gowl

How much tax would a footballer getting 200 a week be taxed anyway?

glued

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

How much tax would a footballer getting 200 a week be taxed anyway?

About 95,000 including insurance.

ericzeking

Half of the 'mistakes' attributed to DDG were down to plain bad luck, in the early days stuff just wasn't going his way, you always hear talk of the Spurs game as if he let it through his legs...he made a mediocre punch and it fell in precisely the wrong place, not to mention I think Evra was out of position if I recall correctly. There was another goal attributed to him he pushed a shot away at angle and it just fell to the wrong guy...he and other keepers still do that and 9 times out of 10 nothing comes of it, I can't remember the game, or was that the Spurs game too?
Bit of bad luck for a young foreign keeper, tear into him, it was easy pickings for the masses.

He is better now but not by the margins people let on he is. Stuff is just going his way a bit more, you make your own luck I suppose it could be said too. He still flaps at the odd one and definitely does not dominate the box like say vdSar or Schmeichel or even Courtois in modern terms.

He is and always was an amazing shot stopper.

Personally, and I've said this loads of times on here, I think Vidic going has done wonders for him. Vidic tried to do it all in the box, attacking everything, getting in the keepers way at times. Remember that Fulham goal, that was at least 50% Vidics fault but DDG got it in the neck....then the "he's not looking at him cos he fancies him Ed".... last season DDG played better without Vidic in the team.

The Moldy Gowl

glued wrote: »

About 95,000 including insurance.

Jesus. They get ****ed with taxes so. Is the uk 50% tax after a certain threshold ya?


..... So young dosent actually get paid 120 a week an Rooney dosent get 300.

Liam O

glued wrote: »

About 95,000 including insurance.

Maybe in a utopian society, in reality I'd say they pay a lot less than that.

The Moldy Gowl

I love how we moan about how much they get paid but they are getting screwed over.

Crimson King

I think the Spanish government introduced a 52% tax and it was the main reason for the rumours for Ronaldo 'coming home'. He used it to get a higher salary to make up paying more tax. I found this comparison online at the time, however its probably a little out of date now.

http://www.tsmplug.com/richlist/footballers-salaries-after-tax/

bangkok

200k was his monthly salary....

RobertKK

http://blog.paddypower.com/2014/12/03/graham-hunter-what-manchester-united-fans-should-know-about-david-de-gea-his-character-and-his-future-at-the-club/?AFF_ID=16562

Seems Graham Hunter was taking to De Gea's father.

Graham seems to think that De Gea will sign a new contract and that De Gea has said:

The word on the training ground is that de Gea feels aware that ‘something is beginning to happen’ at the club. That the quality of signings is rising, that van Gaal is demanding in a way which will benefit those who wish to play and train as de Gea does.

A decent read.

Lucas Hood

The tax footballers pay is mad. Heard it costs Psg €60/70m a YEAR to keep Zlatan.

Your Airbag

kryogen wrote: »

It would show he had faith in him
It would reassure him that he wasn't in some precarious position straight off that bat just because he had a big transfer fee attached
It would show understanding that he was new to the league and still a baby in goalkeeping terms and that he would be given the time to learn from the errors
Schmeichel had a very dodgy start, he wasn't ****ed around with and it worked out fine, seemed motivated to improve himself anyway

Like I said, I have no issue with the initial shielding, its the ****ing him around after I wasn't fond of. He would come in, play like a bag of nerves in fear of being hooked for the next game, perform alright and still miss out on the next game anyway!

If Fergie was as tough with under performing players or player who kept making errors as you say he was, "nobody is above the axe" then how would you explain Patrice Evra being undroppable? Valencia?

Why did he persist with Evra and Vidic when they had rocky starts? Players need to grow and learn from mistakes they make, they only way they can do that is to be able to play without fear of being left out for any perceived error they make.

Its not like Fergie never hampered a players development before like, I am not exactly claiming to have split the atom with this opinion.

For the record, I am also ok with people holding the opposing opinion to me, doesn't bother me in the slightest you are fully entitled to think how you like about it.

DDG had 29 BPL games in his first season and 39 for us overall. Thats plenty of faith. Fergie took him out when he felt things were tough for him.

Yes DDG was a baby to the job but given time to learn from his errorS was exactly what happened. Fergie rightly didn't want him to spend all his time learning on the job as the BPL and GK position is cruelly unforgiving. He was taken out and I'm sure his weak points were worked on.

We can't relive the past but had DDG been left in goal and made consecutive howlers it could have destroyed his confidence. Right now he looks like a giant.

Its hard to criticise Fergies handling of the situation when you see the progress DDG has made.

Evra only had 11 BPL apps when he joined, 14 overall but I thnk he came in January. In his second season he had 24 BPL starts and 36 overall. Vidic 11 in his first BPL season, 15 over all. 25 in his second, 38 overall.

DDG got treated the same as any other rookie by Fergie. If anything he had more faith shown in him.

edit: 38 overall for Vidic not 28 in his 2nd season, my bad

The Moldy Gowl

bangkok wrote: »

200k was his monthly salary....

Yeah that makes sense. All my jobs bar one pay monthly.

50 k a week isn't bad if it's net or gross.

RobertKK

Lucas Hood wrote: »

The tax footballers pay is mad. Heard it costs Psg €60/70m a YEAR to keep Zlatan.

That is crazy.

I think sports should get some exemption, I mean we all need a break from things going on in our lives and we do that with thing like sport and other entertainment.
It is good for the mind and I would argue makes us less stressed, even if team is not doing great, I think the connection is what matters.

Then sports gives a lift to people when the team does well, whether that is winning a match or a trophy.

The French tax system is anti sport in terms of competing. A PSG able to compete more competitively one could argue would be a positive for the French nation.
Current system keeps them in FFP troubles if they go spending big like United did or Real do.

Giggsy11

IIRC De Gea was played against Stoke away in his first season, if that's not showing confidence then nothing is.

Liam O

RobertKK wrote: »

That is crazy.

I think sports should get some exemption, I mean we all need a break from things going on in our lives and we do that with thing like sport and other entertainment.
It is good for the mind and I would argue makes us less stressed, even if team is not doing great, I think the connection is what matters.

Then sports gives a lift to people when the team does well, whether that is winning a match or a trophy.

The French tax system is anti sport in terms of competing. A PSG able to compete more competitively one could argue would be a positive for the French nation.
Current system keeps them in FFP troubles if they go spending big like United did or Real do.

Why is everyone showing sympathy to players who make like 5 times the regular full time workers YEARLY wage a week? OK 75% is pushing it but 50% of what they're making probably puts them in the top 0.1% of the world's population earnings-wise and they'd get no sympathy from me anyway.

keane2097

Do people not realise how much tax someone on 33 grand a year pays in this country?

Your Airbag

Giggsy11 wrote: »

IIRC De Gea was played against Stoke away in his first season, if that's not showing confidence then nothing is.

Was it a wet and windy Tuesday night?

If so that's like the ultimate show of faith

RobertKK

Liam O wrote: »

Why is everyone showing sympathy to players who make like 5 times the regular full time workers YEARLY wage a week? OK 75% is pushing it but 50% of what they're making probably puts them in the top 0.1% of the world's population earnings-wise and they'd get no sympathy from me anyway.

I am not saying anyone deserves sympathy. I am just saying about the value of sport to people who enjoy it.
Personally I don't care how much they earn.

shadowcomplex

duffman13 wrote: »

Looking at Sanchez makes me wish we'd spent another few bob and signed him up. He is so natural on the ball and always wants the ball.

Alexis Sanchez would have been a great signing alright and I reckon a player LVG would have liked because hes perfect for a 4-3-3, not quite a winger, number 10 or striker but can do the job of all 3. Robben is another player like this, id say sanchez only wanted a London club, surprised Chelsea didn't go in for him because he's get in there team

The_Kew_Tour

If Tadic and Cork don't start on Monday it gives us great chance of 3 points

shano_88

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

If Tadic and Cork don't start on Monday it gives us great chance of 3 points

Looks like Tadic and Alderverwield are going to be fit anyway according to reports on twitter.

Havent read anything regarding Cork. More importantly for ye, it looks like Schneiderlin is still going to be out.

Rayne Wooney

Last 9 games we have 20 points from 27 with City, Arsenal, Chelsea and Everton in there doesn't make for bad reading considering our injury problems

TheDoc

On footballers taxation. While they are subject to a countries taxation they also avail of tax breaks and incentives. Like any country...the richer you are the more tax breaks you can get.

Most footballers would have an asset manager or be part of an asset management company and their paychecks go into investments in various areas which let them avail of tax incentives.

Most deals you hear is the gross. As someone mentioned in France there is a millionaire tax where you pay like 70% tax on everything earned over 100k something like that.

Its still astronomical money but a player earning 100k a week in England gross, takes home around half that.

TheDoc

There is a rightful affinity with DDG. He had a rough start and he was an easy target for detractors. Stories of defiance and success in the face of adversity always resignate with people, and ESPECIALLY football fans.

Look at how many people are being supportive of Fellaini. I know watching him lately I'm just chuffed for him. Cause I knew he was getting a rough time last season and was being unfairly painted as like the personification of the squads troubles.

Smalling keeps up what he is doing, and it will be the same with him. Happens in every club and every squad.

It's argueably why most fans hold a deep connection with Ronaldo, and him leaving didnt cause so much outrage as " I hope he does well". He was a player who easily could have gone the other way and become a flop, but instead turned into the best player in the world in front of us week in week out.

That **** hits you right in the feels.

Backstreet Moyes

Wonder what the fella who blasted De Gea as a flop every post thinks now.

I have no problems with the way Fergie handled DDG in his first season with us. At the times DDG was dropped, it seemed to coincide with the fan frustration in DDG's performances so we all sort of seemed to be on the same page. Plus, the media were absolutely loving and capitalising on the howlers he made, and they were creaming for more.

DDG was nothing more than a young promising goalkeeper when he came to us, by no means the finished article or the natural heir to 'World's #1 Goalkeeper', but that is the gun he is currently staring down the barrel of thanks hugely to his own hard work and determination. Just as importantly though, the way he has been handled and nurtured within Old Trafford has a significant part to play.

Out of all the current squad, DDG is top of my list for players I never want to see leave the club. Hope the positive stories in regards to his opinion of the club and his new contract are true. The man deserves £200k (gross!) per week and the Old Trafford board would be fools not to give it to him.

Cantona's Collars

Nuts102 wrote: »

Wonder what the fella who blasted De Gea as a flop every post thinks now.

Say Bateman 5 times into a mirror and he'll appear.:pac:

Gotta love DDG,he's receiving the same adulation as big Pete got and deserves every bit of it.

GK1001

Despite what you may have thought at the time with DDG being dropped every other week by Fergie...I think that you have to remember that every experience that DDG has endured up to this point in his career has made him into the player he is today...I'm confident most would say that on current form he is one of the best GK's in the world atm... so for me, he has bee handled brilliantly to date and all of those decisions made have been proven correct

kryogen

Nuts102 wrote: »

Wonder what the fella who blasted De Gea as a flop every post thinks now.

He is still here so you can ask him

Rob Thomas

Lucas Hood wrote: »

The tax footballers pay is mad. Heard it costs Psg €60/70m a YEAR to keep Zlatan.

Zlatan would probably tell you that that's good value for having Zlatan......

Tom.D.BJJ

Rob Thomas wrote: »

Zlatan would probably tell you that that's good value for having Zlatan......

Zlatan is the modern day Cantana. A miracle