Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - See Mod Warning in OP, 09/11

Nalz

Pro. F

Your Airbag wrote: »

Never mentioned Britton or your opinion on him. That made zero sense.

Indeed you didn't. But you did join in a conversation about Carrick, saying how you think people who put him down tend to rate the flair players and don't appreciate the subtleties of the the safety men and so the game in general. I'm pointing out that since I happened at that time to be singing the praises of a player who is very much a non-flair, safety player, that that criticism obviously doesn't apply.

Your Airbag

Pro. F wrote: »

Indeed you didn't. But you did join in a conversation about Carrick, saying how you think people who put him down tend to rate the flair players and don't appreciate the subtleties of the the safety men and so the game in general. I'm pointing out that since I happened at that time to be singing the praises of a player who is very much a non-flair, safety player, that that criticism obviously doesn't apply.

Exactly I joined in a conversation that started before your weird Carrick/Britton remark. You projected it onto yourself. This may be hard for you to understand but not everything in this thread relates to you.

As your not rating Carrick or giving him his due the criticism obviously does apply but is not exclusive to every persons opinion on every player.

Carrick has much more to his game than Britton and many players rated better then him. Its a shame you can't see it but we won't get into it again. I pointed out many examples of Carricks sublime passing abilities before and you ignored them as nothing special so youv'e got a bias towards him which is entirely your perogative and I have no interest in trying to change that, as it would be pointless and its not worth getting drawn into a long argument trying to change such a poor opinion.

SherlockWatson

Pro. F wrote: »

Indeed you didn't. But you did join in a conversation about Carrick, saying how you think people who put him down tend to rate the flair players and don't appreciate the subtleties of the the safety men and so the game in general. I'm pointing out that since I happened at that time to be singing the praises of a player who is very much a non-flair, safety player, that that criticism obviously doesn't apply.

I do agree that Britton would probably fit the LVG mould a bit more than Carrick as he is an excellent passer and great under pressure, but I don't think he's as good defensively as Carrick, nor would I say he is as clever as Carrick on the ball, I am a big fan of Carrick and feel his value to the team has often been understated.

I am happy with Blind being at the club though, and he looks the natural successor to Carrick at the moment, which I would be happy with.

bucketybuck

Leon Britton, Jack Cork and Tom Cleverley would make an unbeatable midfield, can't understand why they aren't at top clubs right this very minute!

Your Airbag

SherlockWatson wrote: »

I do agree that Britton would probably fit the LVG mould a bit more than Carrick as he is an excellent passer and great under pressure, but I don't think he's as good defensively as Carrick, nor would I say he is as clever as Carrick on the ball, I am a big fan of Carrick and feel his value to the team has often been understated.

I am happy with Blind being at the club though, and he looks the natural successor to Carrick at the moment, which I would be happy with.

Britton isn't a better passer than Carrick either so he wouldn't dislodge Carrick from a LVG team.

thelad95

bucketybuck wrote: »

Leon Britton, Jack Cork and Tom Cleverley would make an unbeatable midfield, can't understand why they aren't at top clubs right this very minute!

Charlie Adam could also do a job.

Your Airbag

bucketybuck wrote: »

Leon Britton, Jack Cork and Tom Cleverley would make an unbeatable midfield, can't understand why they aren't at top clubs right this very minute!

thelad95 wrote: »

Charlie Adam could also do a job.

This team setup only works if Emile Hesky is up front banging in the goals when he recieves those great passes.

Pro. F

Your Airbag wrote: »

Exactly I joined in a conversation that started before your weird Carrick/Britton remark. You projected it onto yourself. This may be hard for you to understand but not everything in this thread relates to you.

As your not rating Carrick or giving him his due the criticism obviously does apply but is not exclusive to every persons opinion on every player.

I don't believe you even know yourself what point you are trying to make here.

You stated your opinion that people who don't rate Carrick don't appreciate the subtle players and the game in general. Since I had just been posting about how I don't rate Carrick of course it makes sense that your criticism was aimed at me, along with all the other people who don't rate Carrick. So it's perfectly reasonable for me to defend myself.

Your Airbag wrote: »

Carrick has much more to his game than Britton and many players rated better then him. Its a shame you can't see it but we won't get into it again. I pointed out many examples of Carricks sublime passing abilities before and you ignored them as nothing special so youv'e got a bias towards him which is entirely your perogative and I have no interest in trying to change that, as it would be pointless and its not worth getting drawn into a long argument trying to change such a poor opinion.

It's a shame you can't see the critical flaws in Carrick's game and can't appreciate the subtle skills that make Britton so much a better DM. But it would be pointless me arguing with you about it so it's not worth getting drawn into a long argument trying to change such a poor opinion.

thelad95

Your Airbag wrote: »

This team setup only works if Emile Hesky is up front banging in the goals when he recieves those great passes.

And Taibi in goal

SherlockWatson

Your Airbag wrote: »

Britton isn't a better passer than Carrick either so he wouldn't dislodge Carrick from a LVG team.

In the position he is playing using LVG's system, the ability to pass under pressure is arguably more important, also I think you are underrating Brittons passing ability a bit.

Your Airbag

Pro. F wrote: »

I don't believe you even know yourself what point you are trying to make here.

You stated your opinion that people who don't rate Carrick don't appreciate the subtle players and the game in general. Since I had just been posting about how I don't rate Carrick of course it makes sense that your criticism was aimed at me, along with all the other people who don't rate Carrick. So it's perfectly reasonable for me to defend myself.

I neve said anything of the sort, thats is all in your head, projecting an argument that isn't there.

Pro. F wrote: »

It's a shame you can't see the critical flaws in Carrick's game and can't appreciate the subtle skills that make Britton so much a better DM. But it would be pointless me arguing with you about it so it's not worth getting drawn into a long argument trying to change such a poor opinion.

Its not a poor opinion, your underating of Carrick is. Britton is a good player but doesn't have as much to his game as Carrick. Carrick is defensively better, a better passer and has better positional sense.

Pro. F

SherlockWatson wrote: »

I do agree that Britton would probably fit the LVG mould a bit more than Carrick as he is an excellent passer and great under pressure, but I don't think he's as good defensively as Carrick, nor would I say he is as clever as Carrick on the ball, I am a big fan of Carrick and feel his value to the team has often been understated.

I am happy with Blind being at the club though, and he looks the natural successor to Carrick at the moment, which I would be happy with.

He's not as good a long passer as Carrick but he is so much tidier on the ball. And defensively Britton is excellent, I wouldn't say there's much between the two of them when out of possession (although age will probably affect Britton sooner than Carrick).

I think Blind is a big step down from Carrick. Good enough defensively, has the same issues when receiving the ball under pressure, but his passing is very weak in comparison.

For all the talk of LVG's commitment to possession football, when you look at some of his previous midfield selections, he has a habit of picking players who have defensive and passing skills but who are poor receiving under pressure, eg Gustavo, van Bommel (more dirty than defensive), de Jong.

UnitedIrishman

Pro. F wrote: »

Carrick has still always been far behind Leon Britton.

You're kidding right?

Pro. F

Your Airbag wrote: »

I neve said anything of the sort, thats is all in your head, projecting an argument that isn't there.

You said exactly that in post 8547

Your Airbag wrote: »

Its not a poor opinion, your underating of Carrick is. Britton is a good player but doesn't have as much to his game as Carrick. Carrick is defensively better, a better passer and has better positional sense.

No, you are underrating Britton is!

...Do you not realise how stupid it would be to just keep repeating our arguments about these players back to each other? You think I am wrong about Carrick and Britton and I think you are wrong about them. Just fùcking leave it.

Pro. F

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

You're kidding right?

Yeah I'm kidding. Hence all the subsequent posts where I explained and defended my position.

The Moldy Gowl

Pro. F wrote: »

The last post you made in this thread was a weak ago. If you want to shape the topic of discussion in here then try making a contribution.

Would you stop telling people they cant post in the thread unless they want to shape a discussion. Makes you sound crazy, why would anyonw want to debate against someone like that.

Post as much as you want Rasta, let the haterz hate hate hate hate hate hate, just shake it off.

beno619

Rayne Wooney wrote:

It looks like the Welbeck love has finally died down, coincided with him being given his chance up front and proving to everyone the level he's at

Na I still love Danny

The Moldy Gowl

I think we made Pro. F angry.

Pro. F

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

Would you stop telling people they cant post in the thread unless they want to shape a discussion. Makes you sound crazy, why would anyonw want to debate against someone like that.

Post as much as you want Rasta, let the haterz hate hate hate hate hate hate, just shake it off.

Rasta's post was the one telling people not to post in the thread because he didn't want to read what they were saying. I did not say that he should not post in the thread. I said the opposite.

And I have not told anyone they shouldn't post in the thread unless they want to shape a discussion. That doesn't even make any sense.

The Moldy Gowl

Pro. F wrote: »

Rasta's post was the one telling people not to post in the thread because he didn't want to read what they were saying. I did not say that he should not post in the thread. I said the opposite.

And I have not told anyone they shouldn't post in the thread unless they want to shape a discussion. That doesn't even make any sense.

In fairness, would you be happy if we bought Leon Britton? No you wouldnt be.

He is a fine footballer, im sure his mother is proud of him, and obviously has some talent playing in the premiership, dosent mean we want him for utd. He isnt really want we want.

Pro. F

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

In fairness, would you be happy if we bought Leon Britton? No you wouldnt be.

He is a fine footballer, im sure his mother is proud of him, and obviously has some talent playing in the premiership, dosent mean we want him for utd. He isnt really want we want.

How about responding to my post and acknowledging that you were wrong to accuse me of telling people to not post in the thread before you change the subject?

Your Airbag

Pro. F wrote: »

You said exactly that in post 8547

No I didn't exactly say anything of the sort. This is what you say I said

You stated your opinion that people who don't rate Carrick don't appreciate the subtle players and the game in general.

What was actually said was

He (Carrick) is massively underated as a player in general. I'm not saying he is an Iniesta, Xavi or Scholes but as happened with Busquets people tend to rate the flair players and put down the safety men

I said people tend to underate due to comapring to the big names thus thinking lesser of the jobs the other do.

I said "people" and not "everybody" and later mentioned its not exclusive to every persons opinion on every players. No mention of subtle either.

I then said

When I see people not rate Carrick as a very good player I tend to dismiss any other opinion they have on football as they don't see the game within the game.

You see, people who don't rate him as a very good player, not people who don't rate him, as you said. To not rate him is to dismiss him altogether. You think Carrick has his uses and is not poor as you have mentioned so this was not reffering to you.

Your jumping fences to make it out i'm consturcting an argument that isn't being consturcted.

Pro. F

Your Airbag wrote: »

No I didn't exactly say anything of the sort. This is what you say I said

What was actually said was

I said people tend to underate due to comapring to the big names thus thinking lesser of the jobs the other do.

I said "people" and not "everybody" and later mentioned its not exclusive to every persons opinion on every players. No mention of subtle either.

I then said

You see, people who don't rate him as a very good player, not people who don't rate him, as you said. To not rate him is to dismiss him altogether. You think Carrick has his uses and is not poor as you have mentioned so this was not reffering to you.

Your jumping fences to make it out i'm consturcting an argument that isn't being consturcted.

Lol. There is no possible summarisation I could have made of your original post that you would admit is accurate. Whatever way I word it to summarise what you said you will say that you didn't say that.

The Moldy Gowl

Pro. F wrote: »

How about responding to my post and acknowledging that you were wrong to accuse me of telling people to not post in the thread before you change the subject?

nahhhhh you're grand love. I wasnt wrong.

You told me a few weeks ago to stay out and leave it to people who want to discuss football, im not cool enough to go back and search my history though. No doubt you will.


So..... Leon Britton at utd, Lvg buys him, are you happy?
Would you lol if Liverpool,chelsea,man city or any other half decent side bought him?

The Moldy Gowl

Any person who dismisses a premier leauge footballer hasnt a clue.

Pro. F

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

nahhhhh you're grand love. I wasnt wrong.

You told me a few weeks ago to stay out and leave it to people who want to discuss football, im not cool enough to go back and search my history though. No doubt you will.

You are spoofer. You accused me of telling Rasta to not post in the thread when I did not, and he was in fact the one telling people to not post in the thread. The fact you are butthurt about something I said weeks ago explains why you are at this bollocks now.

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

So..... Leon Britton at utd, Lvg buys him, are you happy?
Would you lol if Liverpool,chelsea,man city or any other half decent side bought him?

Since he is 32 now he would be a short-term buy, but that is not something to laugh at once the price was right.

He is also just now returning from a serious knee injury, so that complicates your hypothetical situation. If, for the sake of argument, he hadn't been injured in the summer I think he would have been an excellent addition to any of the top squads, and still better than the majority of DMs therein, including Carrick. But, as I say, a short-term option considering his age.

Mr Alan

zerks wrote: »

ESPN seem to have been briefed: http://www.espnfc.com/manchester-united/story/2204964/manchester-united-could-sign-kevin-strootman-from-roma-in-january

Modern news reporting is just incredible. It's all built around the reporting of nothing.

"Utd could have a chance of maybe signing a player"

What absolute nonsense.

UnitedIrishman

Pro. F wrote: »

Yeah I'm kidding. Hence all the subsequent posts where I explained and defended my position.

You do see how that is absolutely and utterly nuts though? Comparing a player who was playing Championship and below football (albeit playing well) to a player who was almost our player of the year a couple years back - and saying he was never better.

Will I Amnt

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

You do see how that is absolutely and utterly nuts though? Comparing a player who was playing Championship and below football (albeit playing well) to a player who was almost our player of the year a couple years back - and saying he was never better.

Almost 30 years of age before he got to play in the Premier League. That should say it all really.

Your Airbag

Pro. F wrote: »

Lol. There is no possible summarisation I could have made of your original post that you would admit is accurate. Whatever way I word it to summarise what you said you will say that you didn't say that.

Your right, especially with what your trying to do with it anyway.

Headshot

De Gea would of saved that

The Moldy Gowl

Let's all cheer up.

Future guy will be in costellos in limerick tonight signing autographs of his posts.

bangkok

im still in shock that you think LEON BRITTON is better than Carrick.... its actually laughable.

Carrick playing centre midfield for a team that dominated english football, conquered Europe, 3 champions league finals, while Britton was playing in league 1 and championship.

Carrick signed for 18m for spurs and was a massive success.

In January 2010, Swansea rejected an £750,000 offer for Britton from Wigan Athletic but Britton signed for Sheffield United in June 2010, but yet you think he is better than Carrick!!!!!! :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

Billy86

Britton is better than Carrick, well I've heard it all now. :pac:

The_Kew_Tour

I went college in Swansea for couple years and can remember when they played at Vetch Field and saw Britton and Swansea play in League 2.

Britton was a very ordinary alongside Roberto Martinez but he was super for them as they went higher up the divisions.

Lee Trundle was the boyo then.

Pro. F

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

You do see how that is absolutely and utterly nuts though? Comparing a player who was playing Championship and below football (albeit playing well) to a player who was almost our player of the year a couple years back - and saying he was never better.

bangkok wrote: »

im still in shock that you think LEON BRITTON is better than Carrick.... its actually laughable.

Carrick playing centre midfield for a team that dominated english football, conquered Europe, 3 champions league finals, while Britton was playing in league 1 and championship.

Carrick signed for 18m for spurs and was a massive success.

In January 2010, Swansea rejected an £750,000 offer for Britton from Wigan Athletic but Britton signed for Sheffield United in June 2010, but yet you think he is better than Carrick!!!!!! :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

The transfer market is not a perfect indicator of player quality and when it comes to central midfielders, the English market is an extremely poor indicator. English footballing culture is utterly inept at judging central midfield players. They favour athleticism, positioning, shooting and the ability to hit accurate long passes over first touch and close control. You can see the evidence for this every second summer when England's, supposedly, best CMs get passed off the park by every half decent opposition they meet.

UnitedIrishman

Pro. F wrote: »

The transfer market is not a perfect indicator of player quality and when it comes to central midfielders, the English market is an extremely poor indicator. English footballing culture is utterly inept at judging central midfield players. They favour athleticism, positioning, shooting and the ability to hit accurate long passes over first touch and close control. You can see the evidence for this every second summer when England's, supposedly, best CMs get passed off the park by every half decent opposition they meet.

I'm not making this a general "English teams don't know what they are doing" argument. Do you think that Michael Carrick was never a better player than Leon Britton even when he was just about helping Swansea from dropping out of the Football League?

Pro. F

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

I'm not making this a general "English teams don't know what they are doing" argument. Do you think that Michael Carrick was never a better player than Leon Britton even when he was just about helping Swansea from dropping out of the Football League?

You did try to make the argument that English managers/teams are good at judging central midfielders. I dispute that argument.

I wasn't watching Britton then so I can't say either way. What I can say is that since Britton has been in the PL he has been the best DM in the league every season.

NoviGlitzko

bucketybuck wrote: »

If we do start getting defenders in, I wonder which of the sicknote crew will leave first? Jones, Evans or Smalling?

Sorry about the late reply. I'm not too sure but it was Sheringham with the goal after they scored first. I being 9 or 10 at the time was bounced around the place when he scored, it was mayhem.

bangkok

Pro. F wrote: »

The transfer market is not a perfect indicator of player quality and when it comes to central midfielders, the English market is an extremely poor indicator. English footballing culture is utterly inept at judging central midfield players. They favour athleticism, positioning, shooting and the ability to hit accurate long passes over first touch and close control. You can see the evidence for this every second summer when England's, supposedly, best CMs get passed off the park by every half decent opposition they meet.

so your argument is based on the england international team getting beaten in a world cup match or whatever at the same time while Leon Britton is off on his summer holidays as he is not good enough to get a single england cap?

when wigan bid 750k for him, do you not think Alex Ferguson, Arsene Wenger or Jose Mourinho would not have bid 1m if he was as good as you say he is?!

even one of the lower teams in the league, west ham, everton or villa?! why werent they interested, why did he go to sheff utd... i will tell you, because he is nowhere near the standard of Michael Carrick.

Dayum

Britton and Carrick are absolute dirt.

A stray dog wondering onto the pitch would beat Michael Carrick.

Liam O

Dayum wrote: »

Britton and Carrick are absolute dirt.

A stray dog wondering onto the pitch would beat Michael Carrick.

And yet he got a clean sheet against Liverpool last week. Good to know the parameters.

The Moldy Gowl

Dayum wrote: »

Britton and Carrick are absolute dirt.

A stray dog wondering onto the pitch would beat Michael Carrick.

Bear him at playing fetch, 100%

But a game of best of out 5 playing who can pass a ball, carrick would win 3-0

ElChe32

Dayum wrote: »

Britton and Carrick are absolute dirt.

A stray dog wondering onto the pitch would beat Michael Carrick.

Carrick 5 league titles
Gerrard 0

Dayum

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

Bear him at playing fetch, 100%

But a game of best of out 5 playing who can pass a ball, carrick would win 3-0

Yeah, 3-0 back passes.

The Moldy Gowl

Dayum wrote: »

Yeah, 3-0 back passes.

Would you prefer carrick over stevie?

Dayum

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

Would you prefer carrick over stevie?

Neither.

The Moldy Gowl

Dayum wrote: »

Neither.

Not really a choice. Both play for clubs in the premier leauge.

Calling them awful and the worst is just being a gowl, they clearly are not.

Just like carrick clearly is not. Vastly under rated player, especially with other fans. He isn't fancy or flash or stylish, he does a lovely job, makes it look easy.

Dayum

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

Not really a choice. Both play for clubs in the premier leauge.

Calling them awful and the worst is just being a gowl, they clearly are not.

Just like carrick clearly is not. Vastly under rated player, especially with other fans. He isn't fancy or flash or stylish, he does a lovely job, makes it look easy.

He's a joke of a player that shouldn't be anywhere near a United jersey.

Well past it.