Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - See Mod Warning in OP, 09/11

fuzzydunlop85

Wonder will van Gaal stick with Valencia or put rafael straight back in, think Valencia deserves to start based on his last few performances.

Think it's fair to say that the Prof has expressed a truly unpopular opinion.

Pro. F

nuxxx wrote: »

How's Cleverley going at Villa

Not too bad from the few games I've seen. He's still not going to be appreciated by the fans who have themselves convinced that he hides from the ball and so on, but you'll have that. With himself, Delph and Westwood they have a decent midfield, but I don't think Lambert is up to much, too cautious.

The fact that you try to mock me for expressing and defending an opinion is sad.

Hank Scorpio

Pro. F wrote: »

Not too bad from the few games I've seen. He's still not going to be appreciated by the fans who have themselves convinced that he hides from the ball and so on, but you'll have that. With himself, Delph and Westwood they have a decent midfield, but I don't think Lambert is up to much, too cautious.

The fact that you try to mock me for expressing and defending an opinion is sad.

Not trying to Mock you, you just seem very fast at dismissing other peoples opinions in an aggressive manner and when you come up with ludicrous claims like Leon Britton is better than Carrick and spend 3 or 4 pages all night defending it, it creates a head up your arse personality. You defended Cleverley fair enough but Mr Van Gaal seems to agree with the majority on here. Maybe its possible to be wrong, who'd have thunk it

Rayne Wooney

Its gas seeing Ando training with the first team you'd think Van Gaal would banish him to the reserves or something

Pro. F

nuxxx wrote: »

Not trying to Mock you, you just seem very fast at dismissing other peoples opinions in an aggressive manner and when you come up with ludicrous claims like Leon Britton is better than Carrick and spend 3 or 4 pages all night defending it, it creates a head up your arse scenario

You complain about me quickly and aggressively dismissing others' opinions and yet you proceed to do that exact thing yourself, calling my opinion on Britton vs Carrick "ludicrous" and saying I have my head up my arse.

Edit:

nuxxx wrote: »

You defended Cleverley fair enough but Mr Van Gaal seems to agree with the majority on here. Maybe its possible to be wrong, who'd have thunk it

I didn't see this edit to your post when I responded last night. LVG seems to favour work-rate and defensive ability over finesse in CMs often enough. He's been a fan of Van Bommel and Gustavo in the past. I'm not too concerned that his judgement on central midfielders differs to mine, judging by his history I would have expected it to.

Hank Scorpio

Pro. F wrote: »

You complain about me quickly and aggressively dismissing others' opinions and yet you proceed to do that exact thing yourself, calling my opinion on Britton vs Carrick "ludicrous" and saying I have my head up my arse.

I'm not gonna get dragged into a childish debate. People form opinions on others from their posting styles, and imo you have the most aggressive and ignorant style of posting in this thread. I check here every hour or so when I'm online to see any news and don't post as often as others, everytime I did tonight it was you arguing with others. When 99% of people make a point and others don't agree with it it ends quickly as a difference of opinion, with you, you have to answer every single reply and not give up until the point it spreads over several pages and people just get tired of listening to it.

Pro. F

nuxxx wrote: »

I'm not gonna get dragged into a childish debate. People form opinions on others from their posting styles, and imo you have the most aggressive and ignorant style of posting in this thread. I check here every hour or so when I'm online to see any news and don't post as often as others, everytime I did tonight it was you arguing with others. When 99% of people make a point and others don't agree with it it ends quickly as a difference of opinion, with you, you have to answer every single reply and not give up until the point it spreads over several pages and people just get tired of listening to it.

Well at least we are getting to the truth of what your issue is now. Your problem with me is that I respond to people I am debating things with more often than you would like. Tell you what, I'll run every post I plan to make past you in future by PM first. Just to make sure you're okay with what I'm posting.

Hank Scorpio

Pro. F wrote: »

Well at least we are getting to the truth of what your issue is now. Your problem with me is that I respond to people I am debating things with more often than you would like. Tell you what, I'll run every post I plan to make past you in future by PM first. Just to make sure you're okay with what I'm posting.

Yes, once against you're spot on, professor.

SherlockWatson

Since when is too much analysis a bad thing?


It sure beats the hell out of retarded meme's and other pointless shít that gets posted, if you don't agree with Pro.F, prove him wrong, don't just shout him down because you disagree with him.

Of course he's going to be snarky, the majority of people just deride him and put him down for having an opinion, rather than actually countering any of the points that he makes.

You are doing exactly what you are criticising him for doing, the only difference is he has an actual reason to do it.


E.G You've come into this discussion making shítty remarks including the one about Cleverley, why the fúck should Pro.F bother to take you seriously, you haven't even bothered to discuss the original point tbh.

Hank Scorpio

I said my piece, looking forward to today's games. Night chaps

RedemptionZ

Late to the party but I agree with Pro F regarding English teams and their avoidance of using smaller technical players in the midfield. And he was met with a lot of patronising replies despite a logical argument(I don't know if Britton is better but you can see where he's coming from, it's not like he said Britton does more tricks on the ball so he's better).

Carrick imo, doesn't belong in a top European club, nor did he ever. Disregarding the expectations on the club because of last season, was there ever a time you'd put Carrick in the same category as Schweinsteiger, Yaya, Kroos, entire Barca midfield etc? He's premier league level but that's it. And to be a top European club that's not good enough for your starting CM. Just my thoughts on it.

RayCun

Could argue British teams under value technical midfielders. To the extent that Britton only rose as far as Swansea? Unlikely. And what about foreign teams? Were juventus and leverkusen unaware of this cheap but brilliant midfielder, and so never made an offer?

Jesus some of the stuff posted recently... I thought it was an inside joke for a while that I wasn't in on. I'm still laughing though. :pac:

newballsplease

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Its gas seeing Ando training with the first team you'd think Van Gaal would banish him to the reserves or something

Yea what the hell is that about? He must be a favorite among the other players. Robbing a living at this stage. They should just release him .

The_Kew_Tour

newballsplease wrote: »

Yea what the hell is that about? He must be a favorite among the other players. Robbing a living at this stage. They should just release him .

Ya he really is overstaying his welcome.

Time to realise the wage bit a little

SherlockWatson

SherlockWatson wrote: »

Since when is too much analysis a bad thing?


It sure beats the hell out of retarded meme's and other pointless shít that gets posted, if you don't agree with Pro.F, prove him wrong, don't just shout him down because you disagree with him.

Of course he's going to be snarky, the majority of people just deride him and put him down for having an opinion, rather than actually countering any of the points that he makes.

You are doing exactly what you are criticising him for doing, the only difference is he has an actual reason to do it.


E.G You've come into this discussion making shítty remarks including the one about Cleverley, why the fúck should Pro.F bother to take you seriously, you haven't even bothered to discuss the original point tbh.

Nothing against anyone here because thats just ****ty.
I think the issue for me is that its relentless at times. I'm not doubting his knowledge because he seems to have a good bit of it and I normally agree with a lot of what's posted.
From my experience though we have had a few debates in the past where I have had an opinion on something and him the same. I share it try and defend it to an extent, but its exhausting debating with Pro F at times. I just give up now if it starts dragging on.
Also, agree to disagree should be OK once you both share your opinion IMO.
Now can we all just be happy... Its match day for Christ sakes...villa going to get the RVP smackdown

newballsplease

newballsplease wrote: »

Yea what the hell is that about? He must be a favorite among the other players. Robbing a living at this stage. They should just release him .

Is he even getting games with the reserves?

Cantona's Collars

Tweeted by Raf this morning:

Xenophile

Anywhere in Kilkenny City where the game is being shown today?

Xenophile

Xenophile wrote: »

Anywhere in Kilkenny City where the game is being shown today?

Surely it would be on in nearly any pub you went into?

marvsins

Xenophile wrote: »

Anywhere in Kilkenny City where the game is being shown today?

It's on Setanta surely all the pubs would have it ?

^ snap 😄

newballsplease

Carrick replaces Fletcher as vice captain

This true?

PhlegmyMoses

Pro F, I always find myself in agreement with your posts until you talk about midfielders. It' s like you lose all perspective and years of debating Cleverley and Carrick and our midfield problem has caused your views to become more extreme and entrenched.

Your view of what makes a good midfielder is so narrow and defined that it makes Leon Britton look more than the mid-table also-ran that he is. This should be ringing alarm bells for a logical bloke like yourself. I mean, the Britton came through at Arsenal under Arsene Wenger and if anyone in England enjoys a brittle but technically decent midfielder, it's him. And yet he didn't keep him on.

I really like Michael Carrick. He works well with certain other types of midfielders beside him and is very effective against 90% of teams we play against. He is certainly no Scholes, Xavi or Busquets, but that's nothing to be ashamed of.

ElChe32

newballsplease wrote: »

Carrick replaces Fletcher as vice captain

This true?

Yes LVG said it yesterday that he has 3 captains, Rooney, Carrick and Fletcher

Cantona's Collars

newballsplease wrote: »

Carrick replaces Fletcher as vice captain

This true?

Yeah,in fairness Fletch isn't playing so it's the logical choice.

Pro. F

RayCun wrote: »

Could argue British teams under value technical midfielders. To the extent that Britton only rose as far as Swansea? Unlikely. And what about foreign teams? Were juventus and leverkusen unaware of this cheap but brilliant midfielder, and so never made an offer?

Since the English market trades at such higher fees and so offers less chance for value than most leagues, I don't think it's surprising that Italian and German scouting might not be very focused in England.

Looking back over the last ten years of foreign inward transfers to Seria A and the Bundesliga on transfermarkt.com there aren't many from England. And of those there are, as far as I can see they all are either:
- Players returning to their home country
- Players who have previously played in the country they are moving to
- Players who have previously played in smaller leagues outside England, so being more likely to have been exposed to German/Italian scouting
- Players moving from high profile English clubs, so having had CL exposure

KH25

Looks like Fellaini is out today. He has it up on his twitter.

Pro. F

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Pro F, I always find myself in agreement with your posts until you talk about midfielders. It' s like you lose all perspective and years of debating Cleverley and Carrick and our midfield problem has caused your views to become more extreme and entrenched.

Your view of what makes a good midfielder is so narrow and defined that it makes Leon Britton look more than the mid-table also-ran that he is. This should be ringing alarm bells for a logical bloke like yourself.

The logical thinker in me sees 150 years of English teams being out-passed by foreign opposition while also favouring certain attributes in their players far more than other nations do, and so I realise there is a connection between the two.

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

I mean, the Britton came through at Arsenal under Arsene Wenger and if anyone in England enjoys a brittle but technically decent midfielder, it's him. And yet he didn't keep him on.

I really like Michael Carrick. He works well with certain other types of midfielders beside him and is very effective against 90% of teams we play against. He is certainly no Scholes, Xavi or Busquets, but that's nothing to be ashamed of.

When Arsene came to England first he favoured midfields that were hugely physical and athletic (on top of being skilful), his obsession with small technical players came later. And it's not as if they just let Britton go, he was sold for a record fee for his age. And anyway, I'm not talking about the player of sixteen years ago, I didn't see him then, for all I know he was a late developer.

keeponhurling

Don't really know enough about Britton, but I really don't rate Carrick as a top midfielder.

Well, don't think anyone feels he's top European level, but similarly he has often struggled to get into a poor England squad.

He has however done pretty well at CB these past few weeks, and given how injury prone out CBs have been over past few years, good to have him there.

For CM, I'd have Herrera, Fellaini and Blind all ahead of him

Cantona's Collars

Was trying to organise a trip over to OT. My usual source is booked out.No CL games means demand for league matches is sky high.

It's gas,I just turned on the City game and the stadium is half full,yet they want to extend the capacity.

newballsplease

keeponhurling wrote: »

Don't really know enough about Britton, but I really don't rate Carrick as a top midfielder.

Well, don't think anyone feels he's top European level, but similarly he has often struggled to get into a poor England squad.

He has however done pretty well at CB these past few weeks, and given how injury prone out CBs have been over past few years, good to have him there.

For CM, I'd have Herrera, Fellaini and Blind all ahead of him

Id bet any money you ask any defender that plays/had played in same team as those players and you ask them who they would prefer in CM.... Carrick would be no.1 choice for majority.

keeponhurling

newballsplease wrote: »

Id bet any money you ask any defender that plays/had played in same team as those players and you ask them who they would prefer in CM.... Carrick would be no.1 choice for majority.

Not sure about that.
When you pass the ball forward as a defender or goalie, you don't want it coming straight back to you again.

You're more tempted to just hoof it and by-pass midfield, that way it might not come back as quickly

RobertKK

Maybe the red Devils will have God on our side, looking at Zabaleta shooting wide at an open goal.
It was easier to score than miss.

RayCun

Pro. F wrote: »

Since the English market trades at such higher fees and so offers less chance for value than most leagues, I don't think it's surprising that Italian and German scouting might not be very focused in England.

Sure, that I can understand. But you would think that if Britton is so good, somebody would have spotted him. There is a premium paid in the English league for homegrown players, no doubt about it. But we're all agreed that none of the English managers, or any of the foreign managers working in England, thought it was worth paying much for Britton, so he wouldn't be - and hasn't been - expensive.

It just strikes me as extremely unlikely that of all the football scouts and managers in the world, none of them have noticed this diamond in the rough. Except for you.

RobertKK

I just wish all this Leon Britton talk would stop, it is not exactly Galactico...

Can we talk about someone other than Leon Britton? He's got nothing to do with United and I'm in disbelief that he's been singled out so specifically as some sort of unrecognised gem of some sort. As far as relevance to Man Utd goes, we won't be signing Leon Britton and I'm not FutureGuy.

The_Kew_Tour

I would like see Falcao get his chance.

Expect 3 points today

KombuchaMshroom

Anyone have a good recommendation for a pub on south side of dublin city for the match?

ElChe32

United XI v Villa: De Gea, Jones, Carrick, Evans, Valencia, Fletcher, Mata, Rooney, Young, RvP, Falcao.

Unleash el Tigre!

MagicMarker

Fletcher over Herrera??? ****.

ElChe32

Herrera isnt in the squad

Paul Tergat

Reports Herrera is feeling unwell

Pro. F

RayCun wrote: »

Sure, that I can understand. But you would think that if Britton is so good, somebody would have spotted him. There is a premium paid in the English league for homegrown players, no doubt about it. But we're all agreed that none of the English managers, or any of the foreign managers working in England, thought it was worth paying much for Britton, so he wouldn't be - and hasn't been - expensive.

It just strikes me as extremely unlikely that of all the football scouts and managers in the world, none of them have noticed this diamond in the rough. Except for you.

The vast majority of the managers working in English football play an English style of football to one extent or another, so I don't think it's strange that managers who favour English types of CMs would overlook one with very different qualities. And it's not as if it's as simple as once you spot a player you can sign him. After his move to Sheffield United went so poorly and he returned to Swansea, he has said that he was very reluctant to leave them again and the club have shown that they want to hold onto him. So at that stage you are only looking at a smaller proportion of the English clubs who would have had the money required to convince both player and club to a transfer.

The Moldy Gowl

Anders is still in shock after seeing Valencidinho nutmeg joe Allen

Pro. F

Raging. I was really looking forward to seeing Herrera today. I hope his legal trouble isn't the cause of this.

Gone Drinking

Pro. F wrote: »

I hope his legal trouble isn't the cause of this.

That's the first thing that came into my head

Lord TSC

Is this falcao's first start?

Nolars

Lord TSC wrote: »

Is this falcao's first start?

Think so yea.

Cantona's Collars

Pro. F wrote: »

Raging. I was really looking forward to seeing Herrera today. I hope his legal trouble isn't the cause of this.

Both he and Fellaini are sick.

I just posted in the match thread that in the last 6 games we faced 29 shots,more than what we had ourselves.