Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - See Mod Warning in OP, 09/11

Son Of A Vidic

irishfeen wrote: »

https://twitter.com/ManUtd/status/523126326119899136

Some good news!

Always a relief to see players coming back from Internationals unscathed.

Valmont

I just watched Class of '92 there for the first time and really enjoyed it. I was only 11 when they won Champions League but listening to them relive the memories brought me back to that night when I sat sullenly on the couch for 90 minutes before climbing all over the furniture screaming for another 10 minutes afterwards. Let's hope good times are coming again soon.

beno619

TheDoc wrote:

If anything has come out of the star of LVG reign is that probably Moyes has been a little vindicated and rightly so.

What a load of hogwash, LVG has been repairing the damage caused by Moyes. The squad LVG took over vs the squad Moyes took over are incomparable in terms of quality and morale.

Kerrydude1981

Reports that Herrera will be wearing a protective corset if he plays on Monday night.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/manchester-united/11170647/Ander-Herrera-could-wear-a-specially-designed-corset-when-Manchester-United-play-West-Bromwich-Albion.html

The_Kew_Tour

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

Reports that Herrera will be wearing a protective corset if he plays on Monday night.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/manchester-united/11170647/Ander-Herrera-could-wear-a-specially-designed-corset-when-Manchester-United-play-West-Bromwich-Albion.html

Glad to have him back.

Been very impressed with what I have seen of him so far.

Kerrydude1981

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Glad to have him back.

Been very impressed with what I have seen of him so far.

Is it worth risking him though if he has to wear a protective corset?

Surely will start on the game on the bench,keep him wrapped up for the Chelsea game.

The_Kew_Tour

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

Is it worth risking him though if he has to wear a protective corset?

Surely will start on the game on the bench,keep him wrapped up for the Chelsea game.

You're probably right.

its good to see these injuries been eased especially with the games coming up.

No injuries from International week is minor miracle in itself.

adox

beno619 wrote: »

What a load of hogwash, LVG has been repairing the damage caused by Moyes. The squad LVG took over vs the squad Moyes took over are incomparable in terms of quality and morale.

Nail on the head.

ericzeking

beno619 wrote: »

What a load of hogwash, LVG has been repairing the damage caused by Moyes. The squad LVG took over vs the squad Moyes took over are incomparable in terms of quality and morale.

Sure that's it... the incomparability of the squads surely vindicates him somewhat, he took over a squad who had done it all and had just been cut loose from the Ferguson era having achieved that one final high, they quite obviously went on holiday and plenty comments since from inside have backed that up. They didn't respect him, and why would they they'd been working with one of the greatest of all time.
He had an impossible task in hindsight.
It was mentioned above that he had Rio and Vidic and that was a positive, if anything he would have had a better chance of succeeding without such players who were so influential yet were disinterested themselves. A clear out a year earlier would have served him better and given him a chance.

Quality wise LVG has a practically brand new squad of superstars with no ties to the Fergie era after the biggest transfer splurge ever so I'd say its pretty different alright.

Moyes focked up, no doubt, but he was on a hiding to nothing almost every which way he looked. He will be an excellent manager somewhere and I'd say it'll be at a level a lot higher than the 'mid table' which many are throwing about willy nilly.

The whole thing is looked at in a far too simplistic level in my opinion...82 crosses vs fulham....finished 7th with the champions...well he must be sh!t so...

The_Kew_Tour

No shame in not being good enough for United.

Does not make Moyes poor manager.

Moyes needed to bring a bit of arrogance with him, but sadly and understandably he didnt.

Wherever he goes I wish him well, but we got the right man in charge at the right time now. IMO of course

KH25

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

No shame in not being good enough for United.

Does not make Moyes poor manager.

Moyes needed to bring a bit of arrogance with him, but sadly and understandably he didnt.

Wherever he goes I wish him well, but we got the right man in charge at the right time now. IMO of course

I agree. Moyes was not good enough for the job but that's ok. Not many are good enough for the top jobs. He did very well with Everton and I think he'll do well wherever he goes next.

Also, despite the way he was sacked he has never spoken I'll of the club or the fans. I have tremendous respect for him for doing that and I wish him the best in future.

Backstreet Moyes

Newcastle would be a good fit for Moyes.

greendom

beno619 wrote: »

What a load of hogwash, LVG has been repairing the damage caused by Moyes. The squad LVG took over vs the squad Moyes took over are incomparable in terms of quality and morale.

in terms of spend too

Liam O

Too many people showing LVG a lot of blind loyalty so far. I'll remain sceptical until he achieves something with the far better squad he has than Moyes did which is worse than the one Moyes would have right now if he stayed imo. Still, ifs and buts and we'll never know I guess...

Billy86

ericzeking wrote: »

Sure that's it... the incomparability of the squads surely vindicates him somewhat, he took over a squad who had done it all and had just been cut loose from the Ferguson era having achieved that one final high, they quite obviously went on holiday and plenty comments since from inside have backed that up. They didn't respect him, and why would they they'd been working with one of the greatest of all time.
He had an impossible task in hindsight.
It was mentioned above that he had Rio and Vidic and that was a positive, if anything he would have had a better chance of succeeding without such players who were so influential yet were disinterested themselves. A clear out a year earlier would have served him better and given him a chance.

Quality wise LVG has a practically brand new squad of superstars with no ties to the Fergie era after the biggest transfer splurge ever so I'd say its pretty different alright.

Moyes focked up, no doubt, but he was on a hiding to nothing almost every which way he looked. He will be an excellent manager somewhere and I'd say it'll be at a level a lot higher than the 'mid table' which many are throwing about willy nilly.

The whole thing is looked at in a far too simplistic level in my opinion...82 crosses vs fulham....finished 7th with the champions...well he must be sh!t so...

Moyes didn't have the players respect because he was not up to the job and it showed right from the outset. For one when he got rid of most of Ferguson's proven backroom staff and replaced them with his own he was taking a gamble, and that gamble proven to be a failure when he took older players and drove them into the ground during training sessions for... Well God only knows why. His training methods were draconian and amateurish by pretty much all accounts, which is why Ferdinand went from having a quality season they year before, and a good first month or two under Moyes, to falling off the face of a cliff through mismanagement. Vidic would have been extremely useful for us to have held onto for another year or two, but even he has said that Moyes was the reason he left.

Also, LVG got a squad without three of out most experienced defenders who had formed perhaps the best backline in the clubs history and all left at once - that's a major challenge that Moyes didn't have to deal with. He did get Di Maria and Falcao in for us... but this "brand new squad of superstars" talk ends there. Moyes could have had Herrera but opted for Fellaini so he has no complaints to make with that one. Blind and Rojo are looking decent enough but to try and label either as a superstar is kind of laughable at this point (Vidic and Carrick both have string arguments to be superior, neither of which LVG has had yet) and Shaw is a long term project with a lot of development to be done still.

As for the crosses against Fulham and finish in the league there were far more issues than that and I think/hope you know that. If he wants to be a manager at a top club in the modern era he will have to update a lot of his methods.

MagicIRL

Liam O wrote: »

Too many people showing LVG a lot of blind loyalty so far. I'll remain sceptical until he achieves something with the far better squad he has than Moyes did which is worse than the one Moyes would have right now if he stayed imo. Still, ifs and buts and we'll never know I guess...

People are showing blind loyalty because LvG has the history to back it up. Moyes didn't.

Valmont

I am glad for Moyes that Everton's honeymoon period with Martinez is over though.

Adamocovic

Liam O wrote: »

Too many people showing LVG a lot of blind loyalty so far. I'll remain sceptical until he achieves something with the far better squad he has than Moyes did which is worse than the one Moyes would have right now if he stayed imo. Still, ifs and buts and we'll never know I guess...

Are we really still talking about showing LVG blind loyalty? Obviously people have more faith in a manger that has managed and won trophies with the big clubs, and so far he has impressed quite a few people, I wouldn't call it "blind" loyalty. Yes this rebuild will take time but so far the direction seems to be a good one.

I liked Moyes but there was no doubt that he didn't have any experience managing a club the size of United, this would be the main reason I imagine most would have more faith in LVG than when Moyes was in charge. In time he might have done well but in football these days you don't get time unless you hit the ground running, and well never know.

And the whole idea of Moyes having a better team now if he had of stayed seems like a silly statement. We have had our biggest transfer window, bringing in huge names and great talent, I don't see the point speculating how the window would have gone with a different manager, theres no possible way of even guessing how it would have went.

ericzeking

Billy86 wrote: »

Moyes didn't have the players respect because he was not up to the job and it showed right from the outset. For one when he got rid of most of Ferguson's proven backroom staff and replaced them with his own he was taking a gamble, and that gamble proven to be a failure when he took older players and drove them into the ground during training sessions for... Well God only knows why. His training methods were draconian and amateurish by pretty much all accounts, which is why Ferdinand went from having a quality season they year before, and a good first month or two under Moyes, to falling off the face of a cliff through mismanagement. Vidic would have been extremely useful for us to have held onto for another year or two, but even he has said that Moyes was the reason he left.

Also, LVG got a squad without three of out most experienced defenders who had formed perhaps the best backline in the clubs history and all left at once - that's a major challenge that Moyes didn't have to deal with. He did get Di Maria and Falcao in for us... but this "brand new squad of superstars" talk ends there. Moyes could have had Herrera but opted for Fellaini so he has no complaints to make with that one. Blind and Rojo are looking decent enough but to try and label either as a superstar is kind of laughable at this point (Vidic and Carrick both have string arguments to be superior, neither of which LVG has had yet) and Shaw is a long term project with a lot of development to be done still.

As for the crosses against Fulham and finish in the league there were far more issues than that and I think/hope you know that. If he wants to be a manager at a top club in the modern era he will have to update a lot of his methods.

You draw a lot of your own conclusions and present them as facts.

It was in your post that I read the bit about Rio and Vidic being positive for Moyes. I addressed it I'm my post, you didn't need to repeat yourself.

Liam O

Adamocovic wrote: »

Are we really still talking about showing LVG blind loyalty? Obviously people have more faith in a manger that has managed and won trophies with the big clubs, and so far he has impressed quite a few people, I wouldn't call it "blind" loyalty. Yes this rebuild will take time but so far the direction seems to be a good one.

I liked Moyes but there was no doubt that he didn't have any experience managing a club the size of United, this would be the main reason I imagine most would have more faith in LVG than when Moyes was in charge. In time he might have done well but in football these days you don't get time unless you hit the ground running, and well never know.

And the whole idea of Moyes having a better team now if he had of stayed seems like a silly statement. We have had our biggest transfer window, bringing in huge names and great talent, I don't see the point speculating how the window would have gone with a different manager, theres no possible way of even guessing how it would have went.

Biggest transfer window and still a sub-standard defense bar left back and midfield cover. Kroos, Fabregas, Benatia and others were all heavily linked, Falcao may have happened anyway if RVP got shipped out.

In 3 years Falcao will be in his 30s, Di Maria will be close. When City were rising they got 22-24 year olds like Kompany, Silva and Aguero to build around, LVG seems to be thinking short term in terms of attack but long term in defense and right now that is causing the chasm in performances. Does LVG care about the club in 5-10 years? Unlikely tbh, he's only there for 3 at the moment anyway. That's why I'm sceptical.

Billy86

Valmont wrote: »

I am glad for Moyes that Everton's honeymoon period with Martinez is over though.

It will be interesting to see how things go from here, especially since he can't claim he had no money to spend. That said he did get more points last year than Moyes ever did there, so I think it was very much an earned "honeymoon".

Backstreet Moyes

Liam O wrote: »

Biggest transfer window and still a sub-standard defense bar left back and midfield cover. Kroos, Fabregas, Benatia and others were all heavily linked, Falcao may have happened anyway if RVP got shipped out.

In 3 years Falcao will be in his 30s, Di Maria will be close. When City were rising they got 22-24 year olds like Kompany, Silva and Aguero to build around, LVG seems to be thinking short term in terms of attack but long term in defense and right now that is causing the chasm in performances. Does LVG care about the club in 5-10 years? Unlikely tbh, he's only there for 3 at the moment anyway. That's why I'm sceptical.

De Gea
Shaw
Rafael
Jones
Blackett
Blind
Herrera
Janjuaz
Wilson

irishfeen

Dani Alves rumours for next summer flying around - thoughts??

Backstreet Moyes

Billy86 wrote: »

It will be interesting to see how things go from here, especially since he can't claim he had no money to spend. That said he did get more points last year than Moyes ever did there, so I think it was very much an earned "honeymoon".

He is poor defensively but Moyes left him the two best full backs in the league and a very solid cb partnership. A few injuries and we are seeing what was expected to happen he has no eye for a defender.

Backstreet Moyes

irishfeen wrote: »

Dani Alves rumours for next summer flying around - thoughts??

Rather a young player to compete with Rafael.

J. Marston

irishfeen wrote: »

Dani Alves rumours for next summer flying around - thoughts??

Still a good player but his level has dropped and he'll be 32 next season. No thanks.

Coleman, please.

RayCun

Liam O wrote: »

When City were rising they got 22-24 year olds like Kompany, Silva and Aguero to build around, LVG seems to be thinking short term

lol

City bought loads of older players. In the year they bought Kompany they bought Bellamy (29) and Given (33). The following season they bought kolo Toure and Gareth Barry (both 28), the next year they got Silva but also Yaya Toure (27).
Gary Neville pointed out just recently that City have one of the oldest squads in the league

Adamocovic

Liam O wrote: »

Biggest transfer window and still a sub-standard defense bar left back and midfield cover. Kroos, Fabregas, Benatia and others were all heavily linked, Falcao may have happened anyway if RVP got shipped out.

In 3 years Falcao will be in his 30s, Di Maria will be close. When City were rising they got 22-24 year olds like Kompany, Silva and Aguero to build around, LVG seems to be thinking short term in terms of attack but long term in defense and right now that is causing the chasm in performances. Does LVG care about the club in 5-10 years? Unlikely tbh, he's only there for 3 at the moment anyway. That's why I'm sceptical.

Well front he transfers in Shaw, Herrera, Blind and Rojo all between 19-25 and the players you say we were linked with, Fabregas and Benatia are both 27 if age is a worry like you say.

Throughout his career LVG has always seemed to focus on bringing in youths into the team so hopefully he continues the tradition with us. I imagine he knows he needs to start getting results before he can work on bringing in young inexperienced players so brought in players like Di Maria and Falcao who are proven players.

I'd like to imagine he wants to have a long successful stay with United as he doesn't seem like the sort of person who likes to do poorly at his job.

In terms of 5-10 years, I remember reading that he has already started changing things in the youth coaching. He has asked the underage coaches to include different areas into their training. I can't remember exact specifics but it was mainly to do with formations and more possession build up rather than quick counter/wing play.

Only time will tell in the long run but I think the main focus at the moment is just to have a successful year this year (top four ideally) and then focus on the future during next season.

I think we might be thinking a bit too far into the future though haha in the short run hopefully we can get our first away win on Monday. Need to pick up three points with the likes of Chelsea, Man City and Arsenal to play in our next four games after Monday.

Billy86

Liam O wrote: »

Biggest transfer window and still a sub-standard defense bar left back and midfield cover. Kroos, Fabregas, Benatia and others were all heavily linked, Falcao may have happened anyway if RVP got shipped out.

In 3 years Falcao will be in his 30s, Di Maria will be close. When City were rising they got 22-24 year olds like Kompany, Silva and Aguero to build around, LVG seems to be thinking short term in terms of attack but long term in defense and right now that is causing the chasm in performances. Does LVG care about the club in 5-10 years? Unlikely tbh, he's only there for 3 at the moment anyway. That's why I'm sceptical.

RVP wasn't shipped out, so it's kind of a moot point, Falcao came available right at the end of the window and we did a brilliant job pouncing on it right away. As much as I would have loved Kroos, he a) would not have fit in the team unless it meant benching Herrera/ADM (and without Europe it would have been very tricky to keep them all happy), and b) was never coming here from the moment Madrid showed interest. The same goes for Fabregas on both counts. Benatia would have been a great signing though, I think all can agree - same counts from when Bayern were interested, but we would have had a good chance beforehand I reckon.

In 3 years Falcao will be 31, no spring chicken but he should still have plenty to offer. It's also a loan signing so we don't even know for sure if we will sign him. Meanwhile, in 3 years ADM and Herrera will still be in their 20s, as will Blind. He is also making an effort to get James Wilson more involved and he is only 18. But the thing is, we need to get at least back into the top four right now for a myriad of reasons, and making marquee signings was also important for off the field reasons as well as on field reasons at this very point in time. And that's all before factoring in the injuries we have had on defense with pretty much every single player (including Carrick) missing time bar Rafael who has looked right back to his best under LVG. We could certainly use strengthening at the back, but I don't care what club you are - you are going to find yourself under pressure with that many injuries across the back. I guess if we want to look at the bright side, Blackett has established himself as a first team squaddie and McNair might also yet, which should allow us really focus on one or two marquee signings there come January/next summer rather than a smattering of 'decent' buys.

As for LVG caring about the long term benefit to the team? Its early days but let's look at what he has done - brought in guys like Blackett, McNair and Wilson who can be players here for 12+ years, as well as Blind who can be here for 8+ years and ADM who had 6+. I don't credit him with the Herrera (8ish years) or Shaw (12+ years) signings but he has been looking to get them up to speed and into the team, on top of giving the likes of Lingard and Reece a go early on over more experienced players. And his track record speaks for itself - at Ajax he brought through a stupid number of top young players, at Barca he set the foundations for their dominant team of the last several years, both in terms of philosophy and in giving Xavi, Iniesta and Puyol their debut continuing his faith in youth, and being in charge when they brought Messi to the team. At FC Twente he continued to bring through and buy young players like Vlaar, Sergio Romero, Hector Moreno and Mousse Dembele. And then at Bayern he brought through the likes of Badstuber, Muller and Alaba as well as reinventing Schweinsteiger from a decent winger into a world class CM and reinvigorating Ribery/Robben into an absolute lethal combination on the wings, the short and long term benefits of which have been obvious.

Like I said, it's early days but the signs are more positive than negative long term, and his track record in this respect is more or less immaculate.

Billy86

ericzeking wrote: »

You draw a lot of your own conclusions and present them as facts.

It was in your post that I read the bit about Rio and Vidic being positive for Moyes. I addressed it I'm my post, you didn't need to repeat yourself.

That's funny, because you are trying to present as fact your opinion that they all decided to take an indefinite holiday the moment Moyes came in, whereas Ferdinand and (a few of the other senior players if I recall) criticised Moyes' dated training techniques, and Vidic out and out said that he would have stayed if he knew Moyes wasn't going to be there.

What opinion was I stating as fact by the way...
- That Moyes was struggling from the outset, including preseason?
- That Moyes got rid of most of Ferguson's proven backroom staff?
- That he drove older players into the ground with overly strenuous training?
- That players reportedly held the opinion this training approach was draconian and amateurish?
- That Rio/Vidic/Evra made up some of the best backline in the clubs history?
- That Ferdinand had been quality the year before, and started the season fairly strongly for us?
- That ADM and Falcao are superstars?
- That Herrera, Blind and Rojo are not superstars (or at least, not yet)?
- That a number of reports have said Moyes chose Fellaini over Herrera because he did not know enough about the Spaniard?
- That Vidic and Carrick have strong arguments to be better than Rojo and Blind?
- That LVG has had neither Vidic not Carrick at his disposal to this point?
- That Shaw is a long term project who still has a number of developments to make in his game?
- That there were far more negative issues than a single game against Fulham and our final position in the table to Moyes' tenure?
- That Moyes will have to evolve his approach to the game to be successful at a top club, if that opportunity were ever to present itself again (e.g. to learn from his mistakes)?

Nib

irishfeen wrote: »

Dani Alves rumours for next summer flying around - thoughts??

How we should line up if we sign Alves;

De Gea
Rafael Jones Rojo Shaw
Blind
Herrera Di Maria
Rooney
RvP Falcao

Billy86

J. Marston wrote: »

Still a good player but his level has dropped and he'll be 32 next season. No thanks.

Coleman, please.

Coleman has a much better chance to do well at the very top level, but it's obviously not a guarantee, and if Rafael continues as he has been doing we shouldn't be spending that type of money on a RB next summer in my opinion.

Headshot

Alves would be a great for Raf. It will teach him what a world class RB was like and will be a good foil for raf. I wouldnt say no.

Nalz

I'd love us to sign Coleman, a fit Strootman and one of Marquinhos\Hummells\Schar\Dante

The Moldy Gowl

Billy, your like the guy in the bar or in work who just reads the tabloids and presents all those as facts and then start shaking your head when people say you are sensationalist.


You just want to believe Moyes was bumbling around going derp derp derpy derp derp, you run, you cross derp derp derp.

Mars Bar

I'd completely get the logic if we signed Alves (provided he's willing to play back up to Raf) but I really, really dislike him so I'd also be quite happy if he didn't sign.

Billy86

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

Billy, your like the guy in the bar or in work who just reads the tabloids and presents all those as facts and then start shaking your head when people say you are sensationalist.


You just want to believe Moyes was bumbling around going derp derp derpy derp derp, you run, you cross derp derp derp.

Wow, what an insightful retort. Next time try attacking the post and not the person, because I have yet to hear what personal opinion or tabloid rubbish I have been treating as fact?

Headshot

Go wan the Chico

The Moldy Gowl

Billy86 wrote: »

Wow, what an insightful retort. Next time try attacking the post and not the person, because I have yet to hear what personal opinion or tabloid rubbish I have been treating as fact?

I did attack the post?? I said it was like talking to a person who reads tabloids and comes away with their own interpretation. Thats how I read your post.

Sorry if you felt i was attacking you, I wasnt. I couldnt care for petty squables.

Billy86

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

I did attack the post?? I said it was like talking to a person who reads tabloids and comes away with their own interpretation. Thats how I read your post.

Sorry if you felt i was attacking you, I wasnt. I couldnt care for petty squables.

Feel free to point out where you thought my post was doing what you said it was.

Backstreet Moyes

Dortmund beat again if they keep struggling me might have a chance of getting Hummels.

Nalz

Nuts102 wrote: »

Dortmund beat again if they keep struggling me might have a chance of getting Hummels.

hows Kagawa getting on?

Hococop

Lads Southampton fair play to them gonna be a tough game when we play em

Lord TSC

Hococop wrote: »

Lads Southampton fair play to them gonna be a tough game when we play em

Be interesting to see if they provide a challange for a spot in Europe (even the EL) long term. But fair play, they are off to a flyer. Had hoped we could leap over them this weekend

Glock Lesnar

Lord TSC wrote: »

Be interesting to see if they provide a challange for a spot in Europe (even the EL) long term. But fair play, they are off to a flyer. Had hoped we could leap over them this weekend

I think their losses to Liverpool and Spurs are telling, they'll be battling with them for the EL spots.

Billy86

Eight now... :eek:

Billy86

Welbeck saves a point for Arsenal in the 91st minute. That's 5 goals in 7 games for him, now.

Headshot

Go wan the Hull. Good result for us

K4t

Billy86 wrote: »

Welbeck saves a point for Arsenal in the 91st minute. That's 5 goals in 7 games for him, now.

Could have got the winner too if Campbell had made a better pass after Cazorla's shot.

Billy86

K4t wrote: »

Could have got the winner too if Campbell had made a better pass after Cazorla's shot.

Didn't see it was just watching on Soccer Saturday, heard he basically sprinted the entire pitch on the counter for the first goal also though?