Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - See Mod Warning in OP, 09/11

grumpymunster

Maybe a little too much criticism of Januzaj, young lads blow hot and cold by and large. Maybe a loan to a middle of the table Premier League would be best for him as someone mentioned. Tonight was not his best night but I think he is a really good prospect.

Giggsy11

kryogen wrote: »

He is playing for the reserves but he is wasted at that level, he is match fit have no doubt about that.

He needs a loan, he needs to play regularly and hone his skills. He isn't good enough right now for United in terms of what we need. Its a cruel game sometimes but he was carried last season defensively and we certainly can't afford to carry him this season in any deficiency he currently has. He isn't going to feature enough to push on imho.

I think he played in 2 games and that was so long back. He played maybe around 300 mins or so (just a guess) this season and the gap between those games is very long.

Yeah he should be loaned out, all I was saying is him getting criticized is bizarre when RVP and Mata were even worse and at least Januzaj had a valid excuse.

kryogen

Pro. F wrote: »

Two goals and a lot of pressure and chances, so, even though it's not working perfectly, the problem isn't the attack.

The way the team defends is horribly disorganised. A lot of people are talking about a new CB as if that will sort the problem, but I don't think that's it. Maybe the back four just need to get some games playing together and the formation needs to be decided upon, but it's been going on so long at this stage. Tbh, it just looks like poor coaching of the defence and too much fúcking around with the formation. Very disappointing.

Posters on here going over the top in their criticism of Januzaj as usual. He's 19 and extremely talented, he's still going to have poor games, especially when he's not playing regularly. Tonight isn't a sign that Januzaj isn't up to the level required, it's a sign that he's 19. Have patience for fúck sake. (I'm not talking about the people just advocating a loan, that's reasonable enough.)

I agree with basically the entire post, just want to add that its a shame we got knocked out of the Carling Cup because Jan is kinda stuck there now for me until January when hopefully a loan will be sorted for him. I just can't see him playing enough to develop properly

kryogen

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

LVG disappointed with the result

"played the best match of the season"

He is right! You can see its coming, its just not there yet.

kryogen

irishfeen wrote: »

I worry about city - Jose always plays defensive but city are going to come out all guns blazing ... I fear for us.

I am the opposite I worry more about Chelsea because they will try to stifle, they are harder to break down and more physical. They can grind it out. City will come forward which means they can be got at, we have the players to tear any team to shreds if they come out and play, city are more likely to be got at then chelsea I think.

Lord TSC

irishfeen wrote: »

I worry about city - Jose always plays defensive but city are going to come out all guns blazing ... I fear for us.

Weirdly, that could suit us.

We have trouble when we are trying to break down teams with 10 men behind the ball. We might be able to launch attacks on City and Chelsea if they play high lines.

Giggsy11

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Yeah I think he played around 2 games for U21 that was so many weeks back. He should at least be getting few mins or should be sent out on loan at the end of Jan.

In general the double standards from most here is hilarious. If Rooney played anywhere near like RVP and Mata today he would have been ripped to shreds, but since Mata is a nice guy and RVP always says nice things in his interviews they get free pass. Rooney contributes way better than RVP and Mata regardless of how bad his first touch is.

I have posted about mata many times here and normally I get shot down so I will keep it brief..

Again mata has been poor. He should be trying to own that position with Rooney suspended but he's too slow in possesion and hes just not providing enough for the strikers. And to add to that he's poor defensively and has been caught in possesion so many times its painful.

kryogen

Giggsy11 wrote: »

I think he played in 2 games and that was so long back. He played maybe around 300 mins or so (just a guess) this season and the gap between those games is very long.

Yeah he should be loaned out, all I was saying is him getting criticized is bizarre when RVP and Mata were even worse and at least Januzaj had a valid excuse.

Apologies if that was the case, thought he had more games.

His inconsistency and poor decision making is to be expected from someone so young, I just don't think we can afford it this season.

irishfeen

Lord TSC wrote: »

Weirdly, that could suit us.

We have trouble when we are trying to break down teams with 10 men behind the ball. We might be able to launch attacks on City and Chelsea if they play high lines.

Chelsea won't, they never do against the big boys... they will try counter on us and catch us with set-pieces and city well if they have a good day I don't think we have a chance ... Shaw plays like that and we finished.

edgecutter

Well the positives tonight is we actually are decent team to watch. Unlike last season, I sometimes couldn't bear to watch us play.

bucketybuck

irishfeen wrote: »

LVG come under real pressure with losses to Chelsea and City I wonder?

He's getting away with it at the minute to be honest. 12 points from what was supposed to be an incredibly easy start? Not good enough.

akelly02

My honest opinion:

shaw, terrible,
Jones , brutal
Januzai , spelling wrong but woeful.

Good points:
blind is a better defensive mid than carrick and fletcher put together.

Falcao showed in 20 mins why we should start him in future games

Our backline showed LVG we need reinforcements BIG TIME

irishfeen

edgecutter wrote: »

Well the positives tonight is we actually are decent team to watch. Unlike last season, I sometimes couldn't bear to watch us play.

We didn't do much with it most of the time though - RVP has been piss poor now for the last few games...

What will it take for LVG to drop RVP I wonder?

edgecutter

With Chelsea and City we just have to go out there and go for the points. They will think we are there for the taking and there shouldn't pressure on the team at all.

LVG has to get the team right for next week though if we are to mount a challenge.

Pro. F

I'm expecting a hammering from both Chelsea and City. I think putting up a good fight in either of those games would be a big turnaround at this stage.

irishfeen

bucketybuck wrote: »

He's getting away with it at the minute to be honest. 12 points from what was supposed to be an incredibly easy start? Not good enough.

I think it will come if Chelsea, City and Arsenal beat us - it will have to come.

grumpymunster

irishfeen wrote: »

Chelsea won't, they never do against the big boys... they will try counter on us and catch us with set-pieces and city well if they have a good day I don't think we have a chance ... Shaw plays like that and we finished.

Chelsea tactics are match dependant we are big boys so we know how to do it. Against Arsenal last season we hit them straight out of the blocks, and that was with limited centre forward's. We are a lot more balanced now the addition of Cesc, Costa, Remy and Matic (even if he did join last January) gives us a lot of variation.

Fairly certain it will not be a sterile 0-0 like last season.

Lord TSC

irishfeen wrote: »

I think it will come if Chelsea, City and Arsenal beat us - it will have to come.

Moyes preformed far, far worse, was showing far, far less, got beaten by those teams and still got nearly the entire year. LVG is going nowhere anytime soon tbh.

Liam O

The difference between LVG and Mourinho is something that I've been thinking about. LVG changing the system every game and Mourinho keeping the same players and system for the most part.

There was a learning curve early in the game today. Players were getting drawn to the ball and nobody was covering the gaps behind. Fellaini did a fine job at both covering these gaps and providing a presence and penetrative effect up front.

Players seem happy to be playing for United rather than taking the winning expectation. You can have all your joking with your mates in training but the intensity has to be there come game time. Only Di Maria and Rooney seem to be bringing it. I thought RVP had it but he hasn't shown the initiative to get on the ball and push the team forward like he used to do in a long time. Mata gets stuck in no mans land for far too many periods of the game and there's just nobody willing to get behind to take advantage of his skill.

People saying attack isn't the problem are wrong imo. Chelsea, City and even Liverpool getting 3 or 4 goals a game and United struggling to get 1 or 2 is a problem. There's still no fluidity or understanding from any of the players and it is still depressing to watch.

Rayne Wooney

Expecting 0 points from City and Chelsea

Needed the 3 points tonight, are we going to look back on this period at the end of the season as the reason for missing out on 4th

irishfeen

Pro. F wrote: »

I'm expecting a hammering from both Chelsea and City. I think putting up a good fight in either of those games would be a big turnaround at this stage.

I fear this too - losing to Chelsea and City wouldn't be terrible but with 12 points we badly need points now.

Giggsy11

Like few said I for one am not really worried. It's at least pleasing to watch some attacking game. IMO we are moving in a positive direction except defence.

Also maybe an excuse but still our team is almost new. This is their 4th game together and one more new defensive pairing. It takes time to build the team but at least we are good at attacking.

Backstreet Moyes

Can't see how anybody can blame Rafael for that goal. He was in line with Jones who decided to run after a player leaving a big hole in defence.

Professey Chin

Gwan Ander

https://twitter.com/ALindegaard/status/524311900281008128

irishfeen

Lord TSC wrote: »

Moyes preformed far, far worse, was showing far, far less, got beaten by those teams and still got nearly the entire year. LVG is going nowhere anytime soon tbh.

I really hope not either but fcuk it this is Manchester United and 12 points from 8 games is pathetic against relatively poor teams apart from Everton.

Backstreet Moyes

Lord TSC wrote: »

Moyes preformed far, far worse, was showing far, far less, got beaten by those teams and still got nearly the entire year. LVG is going nowhere anytime soon tbh.

If Moyes had this start after spending that amount of money people would be calling for his head.

The defence has been poor but it is worrying how unorganized the team is at the back.

Lord TSC

Nuts102 wrote: »

Can't see how anybody can blame Rafael for that goal. He was in line with Jones who decided to run after a player leaving a big hole in defence.

Working on memory, he wasn't; Jones, Rojo and Shaw were in a line with Raf behind them. Jones ran forward but the WB player would have still been offside had Rag been a few feet forward. Both were at fault.

Giggsy11

Nuts102 wrote: »

If Moyes had this start after spending that amount of money people would be calling for his head.

The defence has been poor but it is worrying how unorganized the team is at the back.

6 new players and almost new defensive line up every week. In the 8 games Van Gaal played 6 different CB combination. It takes time to build a defensively solid team.

kryogen

irishfeen wrote: »

I really hope not either but fcuk it this is Manchester United and 12 points from 8 games is pathetic against relatively poor teams apart from Everton.

There has been huge upheavel, system changes, player changes, injuries. There are some pretty legitimate excuses for why the poor points return to now tbh

Chelsea had some shocking results last season, but you could see it was coming.

Liverpool had some shocking results a couple of years ago, but you could see it was coming.

United are having some shock results, but I at least, can see its coming.

Patience

irishfeen

kryogen wrote: »

There has been huge upheavel, system changes, player changes, injuries. There are some pretty legitimate excuses for why the poor points return to now tbh

Chelsea had some shocking results last season, but you could see it was coming.

Liverpool had some shocking results a couple of years ago, but you could see it was coming.

United are having some shock results, but I at least, can see its coming.

Patience

I really hope you are right kryogen ..

in kryogen we believe!

Montroseee

Giggsy11 wrote: »

6 new players and almost new defensive line up every week. In the 8 games Van Gaal played 6 different CB combination. It takes time to build a defensively solid team.

You also need the right players as well, becoming a bit disillusioned with Jones to be honest, prone to injuries and more than his fair share of crucial errors. Himself and Smalling really should be gone in the Summer at this rate.

Lukker-

Lord TSC wrote: »

Moyes preformed far, far worse, was showing far, far less, got beaten by those teams and still got nearly the entire year. LVG is going nowhere anytime soon tbh.

Think this is a slight overstatement, LVG has 12 points now compared to Moyes having got 11 at the same stage last season. Moyes had the hardest start in living memory and LVG probably had the easiest. LVG also had about £150m more in signings. In overall play, you've looked good in spells but little else.

I think LVG has exposed the United defense time and time again this season, he needs to adapt his tactics or I think United will have an awful run until Christmas and he can sign some defenders that fit his philosophy.

NoviGlitzko

Fellani our MOTM. Should start against Chelsea in a 4-5-1 with Falcao leading, I would hope.

kryogen

irishfeen wrote: »

I really hope you are right kryogen ..

in kryogen we believe!

Just look at the players, ignoring the staff and injuries.

Lots of new players, most having to adapt to a new country, new culture, new system, new teammates, new coaching and so on. Things take time to gel normally, now and then something just clicks, but that many wholesale changes and the loss of some of the more experienced, biggest characters in the dressing room meant it was always likely to be a process that would not happen overnight.

I am not concerned at all, yet anyway!

Giggsy11

For Chelsea game hopefully Falcao starts with RVP on the bench. Such a shame though as a on form RVP is among the best strikers in the league. Something is not really right with him, maybe he is on decline and we have seen the best of RVP.

PhlegmyMoses

I think we were really unlucky tonight. Our two major errors where players got drawn to the ball ( Shaw and Jones respectively) resulted in us being punished by a team set up to counter.

We delivered some real quality in the final third but it's time for Van Gaal to realise that RVP is struggling and Falcao seems bright every time he gets the ball. Time for a run for the Colombian

kryogen

I wouldn't be too quick to put RvP out to pasture, but I do wonder if it weren't for the jet lag would Falcao have started tonight? Interesting choice against Chelsea anyway when you would assume we will just play one up top

The_Kew_Tour

Disappointing.

Our Pressure game (or lack of) worries me most.

We don't press high enough and when we do its awful. Too many times West Brom were able to get into our half.

Delighted for Fellaini and bar a 2 minute spell played well. His passing was crisp at times.

I still don't get the Januzaj put downs. Yes tonight he had some poor touches but he still did things with ball.

RVP was most disappointing player on field for me.

It might sound bit odd but we need a break. Anything we do wrong seems get badly punished.

Rooney was big miss tonight.

MagicMarker

We would have won that if Rooney were on the pitch.

I am pie

feel for shaw, he will get a lot of criticism after an unsure performance but that price tag casts a long shadow and its tough to play undet that pressure. Might have benefited from staying put but it was going to be hard to turn to utd for that money.

RVP looks like a world cup year plus his injury record is catching up on him this year. As any Argentina fan can tell you, Rojo's world cup form was the exception rather than the rule. He is a rb too, not cut out for cb duties in my book.

kryogen

Rojo looks pretty solid tbh

KH25

I actually enjoyed the match. Cracking finish for West Brom's first, great goal by Fellaini and a very nice finish from Blind. The defence needs work but things are slowly starting to come together.

Ordinary man

Any word on di maria? Was he injured?

Pro. F

Jones had to push up for the play that led to their second goal. There was a big hole in midfield, somebody had to step into it and it was in front of Jones so he was the man to do it. The problem was Rojo not marking Berahino on the cover behind Jones.

The_Kew_Tour

Di Maria crossing was a joy to watch. Especially first half. He deserved some player on end of coyple . they generally got worse in 2nd half but can't fault him. His pass to RVP in first half was a beauty too.

KH25

KH25 wrote: »

I actually enjoyed the match. Cracking finish for West Brom's first, great goal by Fellaini and a very nice finish from Blind. The defence needs work but things are slowly starting to come together.

I said the same to my friend earlier, he's an Arsenal supporter and he agreed that there's very a gradual progress showing. If we sort out our defence, get settled, keep people of the injury table etc.. I think we'll be gelling nicely just after Christmas.

Blatter

Did any reporter ask LVG what the issue with Di Maria is and how serious it is?

It's absolutely vital that he's fit over the next few weeks. He's largely carrying the team from an attacking POV at the moment.

bucketybuck

Lord TSC wrote: »

Moyes preformed far, far worse, was showing far, far less, got beaten by those teams and still got nearly the entire year. LVG is going nowhere anytime soon tbh.

I never said that he was going anywhere, just that he is getting an easy ride of it from most quarters. Its been a shocking start and I just wonder how long before the excuse of new players needing to settle starts to wear thin.

Hidalgo

bucketybuck wrote: »

I never said that he was going anywhere, just that he is getting an easy ride of it from most quarters. Its been a shocking start and I just wonder how long before the excuse of new players needing to settle starts to wear thin.

I would say if there isn't an upswing in results by Christmas the rumblings will begin in earnest.
No way there'll be a change of manager though imo.

Whatever about Chelsea, Aguero could have some serious change in the channel between Rojo and Shaw. Its natural they'll be shaky and inconsistent for the next while as they try and build a partnership.

Lord TSC

bucketybuck wrote: »

I never said that he was going anywhere, just that he is getting an easy ride of it from most quarters. Its been a shocking start and I just wonder how long before the excuse of new players needing to settle starts to wear thin.

To be honest, I wasn't addressing you. Think it was aimed at Irishfeen when talking about any notions of LVG going anywhere.

Regardless, it's been a shocking start in terms of our points total but I see plenty more to be optimistic about. Plenty, myself included, said we'd have backed Moyes longer last year if there was something to attach hope to. However, with Moyes, it wasn't just results which got worse and worse as the season went on, it was poor transfer windows, it was poor PR abilities, it was poor substitutions, poor tactics, poor performances on the pitch and zero signs of improvement anywhere.

LVG's results on paper don't look great, but he's had a spectacular transfer window, the performances (results aside) have shown far more promise, and it's clear that, as a manager, he's not as inept as Moyes was. He's had an easier ride than Moyes because he's not been failing as spectacularly (though it shouldn't go unnoticed that LVG has a far lower bar too, which helps him).

At the very earliest, LVG will be going nowhere until European spots are out of the equation; Moyes was given that long with far worse showings, so it would be utterly disgraceful not to give LVG at least the same amount of time.