Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - See Mod Warning in OP, 09/11

homerjay2005

J. Marston wrote: »

101greatgoals has gone to the dogs.

yep, used to be the best resource out there, now its just a mess.

PhiloCypher

kryogen wrote: »

Van Gaal brought Fellaini on. Fellaini scored pretty much instantly. Van Gaal was correct in his analysis that Fellaini could have an impact. He managed to do that without throwing his arms around in a fit, or pulling players aside every time the ball goes dead.

Mad how different managers have different styles isn't it

You'd be singing a completely different tune if his inaction on the bench had seen united sleepwalk into a 2/3 nil deficit at the break. Nobody is denying him bringing on Fellaini paid off or that every manager has his ways, I was merely pointing out that there is a middle ground between the Wenger and the Van Gaal approach.

Pro. F

Trilla wrote: »

Very poor? Ah a bit harsh. he wasn't great and a bit wreckless.

I wasn't impressed with Herrera, Shaw and Adnan more so, I get what you're saying but Rojo did some good stuff too. The other 3 were either sloppy, predictive or lazy

Two or three long balls that he let bounce and got himself into trouble and then leaving Berahino unmarked to score the second goal. I'd definitely call that very poor. But I wouldn't single him out, the entire defence and midfield didn't know what they were doing defensively. It was LVG that was the problem last night.

Lucas Hood wrote: »

Jones should never have stepped out of defence unless he knew he could either win the ball or put Sessègnon on his arse.

Not true. Centre-backs holding up the play when there's a man receiving the ball in space in front of them is normal practice and always encouraged. It would have been a very poor foul to give away. And staying deep wasn't an option because there was nobody else to mark the man receiving the ball.

Not that I'm saying Jones' defending was acceptable last night, but that goal wasn't an error from him.

Irishcrx

I'm reading some crazy statements made here after last nights game.

'Could Jones be given the captains armband?'

'Rojo is rubbish and lost his man for the second goal'

'Blind is reckless and can't tackle'

Seriously? Jones is lucky to be on the pitch because we have no better option , although I think Blackett and McNair should be right on his tail. He was at fault for West Broms second not Rojo , he left his back line completely open to rush the ball needlessly and again was caught out , he does it far too often more akin to a headless chicken, Rojo isn't a mind reader he couldn't get across in time to make a tackle and that was Jones fault. Rojo needs to be more clinical in his clearances but I think he's going to be a good CB for us in time , Jones though.......

Blind isn't the fastest player in the EPL but he isn't slow , the job he does he covers a lot of ground not only through the middle but coming across the back line as well. He can tackle , in fact he is a great tackler of the ball and timing. He made 2 fouls last night that I can remember that were professional fouls , one he got booked for and IMO he was right to make them to prevent us being caught out at the back. He's a very smart player.

homerjay2005

Irishcrx wrote: »

I'm reading some crazy statements made here after last nights game.

'Could Jones be given the captains armband?'

ive been as big a critic as anybody on here of Jones over the past 3 years, but i can see where people are coming from with that one.

Captain doesnt always mean your the best player. if he is being selected, then id have no issues with him being captain, he is very very dedicated and driven and an ideal captain candidate. right now, if Rooney was demoted, we dont exactly have a bunch of captains available waiting to replace him.

his football ability is another thing, but maybe LVG can in time, sort him out.

Timmyctc

Irishcrx wrote: »

I'm reading some crazy statements made here after last nights game.

'Could Jones be given the captains armband?'

'Rojo is rubbish and lost his man for the second goal'

'Blind is reckless and can't tackle'

Seriously? Jones is lucky to be on the pitch because we have no better option , although I think Blackett and McNair should be right on his tail. He was at fault for West Broms second not Rojo , he left his back line completely open to rush the ball needlessly and again was caught out , he does it far too often more akin to a headless chicken, Rojo isn't a mind reader he couldn't get across in time to make a tackle and that was Jones fault. Rojo needs to be more clinical in his clearances but I think he's going to be a good CB for us in time , Jones though.......

Blind isn't the fastest player in the EPL but he isn't slow , the job he does he covers a lot of ground not only through the middle but coming across the back line as well. He can tackle , in fact he is a great tackler of the ball and timing. He made 2 fouls last night that I can remember that were professional fouls , one he got booked for and IMO he was right to make them to prevent us being caught out at the back. He's a very smart player.

Its funny because some people were advocating the sale of Jones last night :pac:

I think Jones and Shaw were at fault for pushing up and letting their man play the ball on. As Neville said its either foul or win the ball. Otherwise you're taken out of the game. Blind recognises this which I love. Nothing wrong with an oul cynical foul. Rojo looked nervous. Can only hope a commanding CB comes in or one of the four CBs step up to the mark.

If Jones actually got the captaincy it would be disasterous. I don't think RvP is capable of being captain either. He seems to have tunnel vision at the mo. Only wants to score himself, doesn't seem the sort of player able to rally the troops either.

The Moldy Gowl

Just beacuase a player gets a sentimental piece of cloth, dosent mean the team will perform better, after being rallied.

If elite players cant get motivated while under so many spotlights, an armband isnt going to do it.

Phil Jones recieves armband +20 leadership skills.

Phil Jones fainted.

Backstreet Moyes

That Berahinio is some talent in fairness seen him a bit this season. Has great pace, movement and is a good finisher he will be at a big club soon.

Pro. F

Irishcrx wrote: »

I'm reading some crazy statements made here after last nights game.

'Could Jones be given the captains armband?'

'Rojo is rubbish and lost his man for the second goal'

'Blind is reckless and can't tackle'

Seriously? Jones is lucky to be on the pitch because we have no better option , although I think Blackett and McNair should be right on his tail. He was at fault for West Broms second not Rojo , he left his back line completely open to rush the ball needlessly and again was caught out , he does it far too often more akin to a headless chicken, Rojo isn't a mind reader he couldn't get across in time to make a tackle and that was Jones fault. Rojo needs to be more clinical in his clearances but I think he's going to be a good CB for us in time , Jones though.......

There was a West Brom player receiving the ball in midfield unmarked. One of the defence is supposed to step up and mark him when that happens. Rojo didn't need to be a mind reader to know that he had to cover Jones stepping up and then mark Berahino when he came into the space. It should have been automatic for him to pick up Berahino. This is basic defensive organisation that gets trained in every club, but you think that it should work differently. Jones isn't a headless chicken, you just don't know the basics of defensive organisation.

bangkok

kryogen wrote: »

Yeah, and if you look back on his entire career you won't see him doing it a whole lot either. Its not his thing.

It annoys me when people expect certain things of others that they have no obligation to provide.

no but f they are not doing what he has asked them to do in training or before the game in his teamtalk then surely he must say it when he sees it after 20mins in the game?

saying after the game

"They (West Brom) were more narrow in midfield but then our lateral defenders (full-backs) have to push up – but they gave them too much space"

why not tell the players this during the game instead of saying nothing, letting the game pan out and then say it to the tv cameras after the game?!

FutureGuy

Nuts102 wrote: »

That Berahinio is some talent in fairness seen him a bit this season. Has great pace, movement and is a good finisher he will be at a big club soon.

Was surprised Liverpool didnt make a bid for him.

He was super calm against us last night. Incredible prospect.

MagicIRL

FutureGuy wrote: »

Was surprised Liverpool didnt make a bid for him.

He was super calm against us last night. Incredible prospect.

Thought Arsenal would've gone in for him instead of Welbeck myself.

Irishcrx

Pro. F wrote: »

There was a West Brom player receiving the ball in midfield unmarked. One of the defence is supposed to step up and mark him when that happens. Rojo didn't need to be a mind reader to know that he had to cover Jones stepping up and then mark Berahino when he came into the space. It should have been automatic for him to pick up Berahino. This is basic defensive organisation that gets trained in every club, but you think that it should work differently. Jones isn't a headless chicken, you just don't know the basics of defensive organisation.

Well no I don't agree with you , If Jones maintains his position there is no danger of the ball being played in behind him , when he rushes out of the line he leaves a gaping hole for the ball to be played into, Rojo is across the line marking another player and can't make it across. So Jones IMO is at fault because he should have read the danger and looked across his line.

The basics of defensive organisation is to thought to hold your line and read the game , maybe he did that or thought he was doing it but his decision to come out of the line was the wrong one on that occasion he made the pass in behind easy, he should have waited and let Blind or a midfielder come back and deal with it.

Van Gaal also said the two goals came from two errors, maybe he doesn't know the basics of football either. Go and have a chat with him about it.

Soldie

Brutal performances from Mata, Januzaj and van Persie last night. Shaw, Rojo and Herrera didn't play particularly well either.

I nearly punched the wall when van Persie was at the byline on the edge of the six-yard box and he tried to go for glory himself instead of squaring it. What happened to the man?

What do we reckon against Chelsea?

---

de Gea

---

---

-- Rafael - Jones - ??? - Rojo --

---

---

Blind

---

---

---

Herrera --- Fellaini

---

---

-- Valencia

---

Di María --

---

---

Falcao

---

It pains me to put Valencia in there, but what choice have we got? I wouldn't be starting Mata or Januzaj against Chelsea.

Pro. F

Irishcrx wrote: »

Well no I don't agree with you , If Jones maintains his position there is no danger of the ball being played in behind him , when he rushes out of the line he leaves a gaping hole for the ball to be played into, Rojo is across the line marking another player and can't make it across. So Jones IMO is at fault because he should have read the danger and looked across his line.

The basics of defensive organisation is to thought to hold your line and read the game , maybe he did that or thought he was doing it but his decision to come out of the line was the wrong one on that occasion he made the pass in behind easy, he should have waited and let Blind or a midfielder come back and deal with it.

Rojo wasn't marking another player. There was no other West Brom player in his area. You need to watch the replay again.

Regarding the bold: No it's not. There's no point in us debating the finer points if you believe that.

Irishcrx wrote: »

Van Gaal also said the two goals came from two errors, maybe he doesn't know the basics of football either. Go and have a chat with him about it.

I never said there wasn't an error on the second goal. The midfield was all over the place, with nobody covering Blind so Jones had to step up and Rojo didn't cover Jones properly by marking Berahino. Plenty of mistakes on that goal.

So far at United Van Gaal hasn't produced a well organised team. He might be world famous and have a great CV, but those defensive displays are not acceptable and that falls on the manager.

Irishcrx

Pro. F wrote: »

Rojo wasn't marking another player. There was no other West Brom player in his area. You need to watch the replay again.

Regarding the bold: No it's not. There's no point in us debating the finer points if you believe that.



I never said there wasn't an error on the second goal. The midfield was all over the place, with nobody covering Blind so Jones had to step up and Rojo didn't cover Jones properly by marking Berahino. Plenty of mistakes on that goal.

So far at United Van Gaal hasn't produced a well organised team. He might be world famous and have a great CV, but those defensive displays are not acceptable and that falls on the manager.

Agree to disagree so.

I do agree with you on the second point though, regardless of who was at fault and to be fair your right it was all over the camp it needs to improve and quickly.

All well and good up front but the back line is shakier than a Fiat Punto on a back road.

Irishcrx

Soldie wrote: »

Brutal performances from Mata, Januzaj and van Persie last night. Shaw, Rojo and Herrera didn't play particularly well either.

I nearly punched the wall when van Persie was at the byline on the edge of the six-yard box and he tried to go for glory himself instead of squaring it. What happened to the man?

What do we reckon against Chelsea?

---

de Gea

---

---

-- Rafael - Jones - ??? - Rojo --

---

---

Blind

---

---

---

Herrera --- Fellaini

---

---

-- Valencia

---

Di María --

---

---

Falcao

---

It pains me to put Valencia in there, but what choice have we got? I wouldn't be starting Mata or Januzaj against Chelsea.

No not Valencia , he offers nothing , game is too big for him. I'd have Mata maybe not playing the best but he is getting goals and assists and I'd think he'd love to pull one out against Mourinho , that type of thing happens all too often 'the curse of the former player'

Vic Vinegar

Soldie wrote: »

What do we reckon against Chelsea?

---

de Gea

---

---

-- Rafael - Jones - ??? - Rojo --

---

---

Blind

---

---

---

Herrera --- Fellaini

---

---

-- Valencia

---

Di María --

---

---

Falcao

---

Shaw will be left back and Rojo will be CB anyway.

Liam O

There is no reason to be caught 1 on 1 in a situation where the opposition have 1 attacking player like that for a lot of the game and yet it was happening time after time. I actually thought Rojo did quite well in a lot of those situations and it was more down to bad discipline and organisation that cost United in those instances where the 2 CBs should be working together to mop up these over the top balls.

Ordinary man

hopefully lvg stays with the same back 4 for a few games, every game so far seems to have different players because of injuries

Rayne Wooney

The same back 4 with Carrick and Blind ahead, Mata, Di Maria on the left and Valencia on the right and Falcao up front

I think that's our best chance of getting something from the game

Valencia will help combat Hazard and Fabregas

Giggsy11

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

The same back 4 with Carrick and Blind ahead, Mata, Di Maria on the left and Valencia on the right and Falcao up front

I think that's our best chance of getting something from the game

Valencia will help combat Hazard and Fabregas

Just Herrera as 10 in place of Mata might be a better option. Also Fellaini might start as we need someone to deal with set pieces too.

Cantona's Collars

Fergie gives his opinions on Moyes: http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/oct/21/alex-ferguson-david-moyes-manchester-united

The switch from our high tempo game to the slow,cautious approach seemed to grate with him a bit.

ericzeking

It was me who mentioned giving Jones the armband, not by demoting Rooney or even Fletcher, just in situations like last night where neither are playing, every now and again if you will..... it might encourage Jones to be a leader, to lead the defense, something which we are lacking. He should be doing it anyway since his partner doesn't speak English but the armband might give him that extra impetus.

It certainly couldn't hurt.

I see no value in having the RvP we've seen for the past while captaining the team, that's for sure.

UnitedIrishman

Thought Herrera was very poor last night. He was dispossessed on a number of occasions and his passing wasn't great either. Almost sure it was said that Herrera was carrying an injury into the game so he can be forgiven for that. With Chelsea coming up it's a pity Michael Carrick isn't back with a couple of games played because himself and Blind would be a decent pair to play at the base of the midfield against them.

Defence is still unreliable and shaky. But the problem at times comes from the fact that we have a lot of attacking minded players that don't necessarily track runners. For instance for the first goal Shaw pushes up on the right winger who plays a nice first time pass out to Andre Wisdom who eventually crosses to Sessegnon. Di Maria watched Wisdom go by him before realising it was too late and giving up.

I'd agree in part that Rojo should have covered Jones for the second goal but I think the pace at which the move happened caught him out. And it'll more than likely come to him in time when he gets used to the league.

One thing that I couldn't understand is the defensive shape we had. We had a high line with no pressure from the front. That's asking for trouble with strong and fast attackers like Berahino to aim for in behind the defence. We definitely need more physicality in the lineup and Jones needs to start stepping up or regardless of what we paid for him he'll be replaced pretty quickly.

kryogen

PhiloCypher wrote: »

You'd be singing a completely different tune if his inaction on the bench had seen united sleepwalk into a 2/3 nil deficit at the break. Nobody is denying him bringing on Fellaini paid off or that every manager has his ways, I was merely pointing out that there is a middle ground between the Wenger and the Van Gaal approach.

No I wouldn't.

The_Kew_Tour

One pleasing thing about Fellaini was his ability to press well and stop WBA when they tried move with ball.

I don't think he will ever be 27m player but he showed last night what he can do.

He tends to do better away from home too where hardcore fans will cheer him on then get on his back.

Pro. F

Liam O wrote: »

There is no reason to be caught 1 on 1 in a situation where the opposition have 1 attacking player like that for a lot of the game and yet it was happening time after time. I actually thought Rojo did quite well in a lot of those situations and it was more down to bad discipline and organisation that cost United in those instances where the 2 CBs should be working together to mop up these over the top balls.

Do you think Rojo did quite well on the two or three occasions when he let the ball bounce in front of him and he ended up facing his own goal from a simple long ball?

Nalz

homerjay2005 wrote: »

who gives a f*ck about cooking and cleaning, if she was putting out 5 times a week. very strange logic, each to their own though.

Ok - change cooking and cleaning to slucking and flucking or whatever way you want to look at it, I was just trying to be PC

I'm happy to give this more time than Moyes.
Better players, more injuries, better displays, proper football.

Demanding 22 points or whatever... just doesn't work that way. Not this early anyways.

Look at Liverpools finish last season, and the money they spent. They're one point ahead of us and shouldnt have won against QPR. Early days...

djPSB

Trilla wrote: »

Ok - change cooking and cleaning to slucking and flucking or whatever way you want to look at it, I was just trying to be PC

I'm happy to give this more time than Moyes.
Better players, more injuries, better displays, proper football.

Demanding 22 points or whatever... just doesn't work that way. Not this early anyways.

Look at Liverpools finish last season, and the money they spent. They're one point ahead of us and shouldnt have won against QPR. Early days...

Liverpool have been absolutely putrid so far this season so been only one point behind isn't all that great.

RasTa

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

The same back 4 with Carrick and Blind ahead, Mata, Di Maria on the left and Valencia on the right and Falcao up front

No way should a 33 year old notoriously slow starter to a season, Michael Carrick be starting his first game against that Chelsea Midfield.

Iused2likebusts

Pro. F wrote: »

There was a West Brom player receiving the ball in midfield unmarked. One of the defence is supposed to step up and mark him when that happens. Rojo didn't need to be a mind reader to know that he had to cover Jones stepping up and then mark Berahino when he came into the space. It should have been automatic for him to pick up Berahino. This is basic defensive organisation that gets trained in every club, but you think that it should work differently. Jones isn't a headless chicken, you just don't know the basics of defensive organisation.

The defence should stay compact the opposition want to pull the centre half out of position like they did with Jones. So what if someone has a bit of space on the ball 60 yards from your goal they still have to play through an organised back line to score. When Jones steps out it leaves a huge gap to exploit between Rojo and Rafael which they did and Rafael should also have stepped up or tucked in. Jones and Rafael are to blame for that goal.

Maximus Alexander

I don't think the manager shouting at the players from the sideline has any real effect to be honest. If training, tactical preparation and team selection has failed, screaming short commands from the sidelines over the noise of the crowd seems unlikely to make much difference. The horse has bolted at that stage. Half time and substitutions are the only ways the manager can make much difference after kick off in my opinion.

Backstreet Moyes

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

The defence should stay compact the opposition want to pull the centre half out of position like they did with Jones. So what if someone has a bit of space on the ball 60 yards from your goal they still have to play through an organised back line to score. When Jones steps out it leaves a huge gap to exploit between Rojo and Rafael which they did and Rafael should also have stepped up or tucked in. Jones and Rafael are to blame for that goal.

Rafael is hardly a mind reader. Jones was in line with Rafael once he ran forward Rafael had no time to react before the ball was played through. Same with Rojo he had very little time to even attempt to run across to Berahinio.

The defenders were compact and Jones lunging forward opened the whole defence. If he is going to make that move forward he must win the ball or give away a free.

The fact is a West Brom player had space 50 yards from goal their was no need for Jones to run out of position he takes all the blame for that goal imo.

Mars Bar

Nuts102 wrote: »

Rafael is hardly a mind reader. Jones was in line with Rafael once he ran forward Rafael had no time to react before the ball was played through. Same with Rojo he had very little time to even attempt to run across to Berahinio.

The defenders were compact and Jones lunging forward opened the whole defence. If he is going to make that move forward he must win the ball or give away a free.

The fact is a West Brom player had space 50 yards from goal their was no need for Jones to run out of position he takes all the blame for that goal imo.

Jones wasn't in line with Raf. Raf was behind the other 3.

Backstreet Moyes

Mars Bar wrote: »

Jones wasn't in line with Raf. Raf was behind the other 3.

I was fairly sure Jones and Rafael were in line maybe i am wrong.

MD1990

djPSB wrote: »

Liverpool have been absolutely putrid so far this season so been only one point behind isn't all that great.

Also the difference in fixtures. We have played Man City & Spurs both away from home & Southampton too.

Deiseboy01

greendom wrote: »

That finish from Fellaini last night was hardly tripe, was it ?

Did I say it was? Nope.

Playing him up top results in tripe football where we hoof the ball to a battering ram. Its bad enough watching Utd these days without resorting to that.

Lord TSC

Nuts102 wrote: »

I was fairly sure Jones and Rafael were in line maybe i am wrong.

Raf was a few feet behind the others in terms of a straight line. Had he been in line with them, it would have been an offside, but he played the West Brom player on.

Liam McPoyle

Just saw on SSN, CR7 has never scored at Anfield. Did not know that.

Hococop

Business Cat wrote: »

Just saw on SSN, CR7 has never scored at Anfield. Did not know that.

With the form he is in I doubt not scoring there is going to play on his mind,

City drew as well, they just can't seem to break Europe, granted CSKA got a dodgy penalty decision

ElChe32

Ronaldo to score tomorrow..rips off his shirt to reveal a t-shirt with "Forever a Manc" on the front and "I'm coming home" on the back.

A guy can dream right?

KH25

ElChe32 wrote: »

Ronaldo to score tomorrow..rips off his shirt to reveal a t-shirt with "Forever a Manc" on the front and "I'm coming home" on the back.

A guy can dream right?

No, no. He bangs in a hat-trick, runs over to Rodgers, gives him a stunner THEN whips off the shirt!

ElChe32

KH25 wrote: »

No, no. He bangs in a hat-trick, runs over to Rodgers, gives him a stunner THEN whips off the shirt!

Hococop

Remy going off injured, bit of a boost for is, obviously never nice to see a player injured

Mantis Toboggan

Nani scores again tonight in the champions league, and we're also paying his wages, ****ing disgrace.

The Moldy Gowl

Buddy Holly wrote: »

Nani scores again tonight in the champions league, and we're also paying his wages, ****ing disgrace.

Well its not like he could score for us in the champions league.

kryogen

Business Cat wrote: »

Just saw on SSN, CR7 has never scored at Anfield. Did not know that.

They can be proud of that, for about another 24 hours.

kryogen

Hococop wrote: »

Remy going off injured, bit of a boost for is, obviously never nice to see a player injured

Costa will be fit, its Jose.

Mantis Toboggan

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

Well its not like he could score for us in the champions league.

Whats your point?