Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - See Mod Warning in OP, 09/11

bucketybuck

Nuts102 wrote: »

In that 45 minutes he has shown more to deserve a game Sunday then Herrera has done all season. Herrera has been average at best this season and i think Fellaini deserves a start after his performance on Monday.

Your talking as if Fellaini is some average player who has never played to a good standard. He has performed very well for Belgium and Everton in cm for the past few seasons. He destroyed us in the 3-3 draw or was it 4-4 where he bullied us. We badly need something like that in the centre of the midfield and a confident Fellaini would be in my first 11.

Again my point, it really doesn't take much to earn a spot in this midfield does it.

And to your point, Felliani has never shown for us that he can compete in central midfield, any strong performance you can point to for us or Everton came playing ahead of the midfield.

Will he start on Sunday? Who knows, maybe he will. I suspect that if he does people will be in here Monday denigrating him for getting walked around by the Chelsea midfield.

bangkok

the thing about fellaini is he doesn't have the mobility to play centre midfield, never had, never will. If he plays midfield, fabregas and matic will run rings around him, little one twos, pass and move, that is not fellainis game at all.

to get the best out of him you have to kick it long and direct, he has the best chest control in world football, take it down and then bring players into the game, attacking midfielders or pass it wide or onto the striker. United shouldn't be afraid to this and sunday. It will be a nightmare for cahill and terry. Let him bully them, just play direct football. get 3 points, who cares. Its all about the result this sunday.

I would rather we play to fellainis strengths and get 3 points rather than try out pass/play Chelsea and end up losing 2 or 3 nil

Pro. F

This is the team I would like to see against Chelsea:

DDG
Raf Jones Rojo Shaw
Young Hererra Blind Di Maria
Mata
Falcao

Keep it simple, set up in a way where the team will have a chance of keeping a good shape when defending. Forget about a diamond midfield until Rooney is back. Hopefully Falcao's all round game will bring the best out of Mata. Right now Young is the most likely to do a decent job opposite Angel, and when playing on the right he has a reasonable chance of putting in good crosses.

Januzaj can come on for one of Di Maria (if he tires), Mata or Young. He can be deployed to run at a tired/booked defender. Fellaini might well need to come on for Hererra at some stage if he's not yet fully fit.

Starting Fellaini instead of Mata would be a reasonable call given Mata's recent form, but I'd hold out hope that with Falcao ahead of him Mata could play a lot better.

BloodBath

Stick Fellaini on for Mata at the tip of the diamond imo. Good outlet for long/high balls to control and pass to a forward and can be put marking Fabregas for the game.

Mata is really offering very little at the moment and we really need extra defensive cover in midfield which Mata will not provide.

---

Blind

---

---Herrera---Di maria---

---

Fellaini

---

----Falcao--Van Persie--

bangkok

Pro. F wrote: »

This is the team I would like to see against Chelsea:

DDG
Raf Jones Rojo Shaw
Young Hererra Blind Di Maria
Mata
Falcao

Keep it simple, set up in a way where the team will have a chance of keeping a good shape when defending. Forget about a diamond midfield until Rooney is back. Hopefully Falcao's all round game will bring the best out of Mata. Right now Young is the most likely to do a decent job opposite Angel, and when playing on the right he has a reasonable chance of putting in good crosses.

Januzaj can come on for one of Di Maria (if he tires), Mata or Young. He can be deployed to run at a tired/booked defender. Fellaini might well need to come on for Hererra at some stage if he's not yet fully fit.

Starting Fellaini instead of Mata would be a reasonable call given Mata's recent form, but I'd hold out hope that with Falcao ahead of him Mata could play a lot better.

there is one major thing lacking in that team...Height. Chelsea would destroy us on corners and free kicks, that's why I wouldn't be surprised to see both carrick and fellaini starting

Pro. F

bangkok wrote: »

there is one major thing lacking in that team...Height. Chelsea would destroy us on corners and free kicks, that's why I wouldn't be surprised to see both carrick and fellaini starting

Carrick is weak in the air and will likely be lost in open play, being just back and a slow starter. Your argument does work for Fellaini though.

It is very unsatisfactory to have spent so much money and find ourselves in this situation. So many problems to fix and so little that is working.

Cantona's Collars

Bale to United? http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/406687/Gareth-Bale-Manchester-United-bid

It's the Star so most likely bollix but who'd have thought last season that we'd end up with the likes of Falcao & Di Maria at the club.

BTW, Pogba has signed a triple his wages contract at Juve.

adox

Mata has been shocking the last few weeks, really poor.

I would have preferred Kagawa to be kept and Mata moved on.

Oregano_State

It takes time for new players and a new manager to settle in. I believe there are enough signs of good things to expect better consistency in the coming months.

Donnielighto

I think we should sell everyone, then buy everyone.

Everyday.

bangkok

Pro. F wrote: »

Carrick is weak in the air and will likely be lost in open play, being just back and a slow starter. Your argument does work for Fellaini though.

It is very unsatisfactory to have spent so much money and find ourselves in this situation. So many problems to fix and so little that is working.

carrick is weak in the air compared to the likes of terry and vidic but he is still good in the air. He is also better than young, Herrera, blind or di maria in the air, that is why I think he will start.

Will I Amnt

Oregano_State wrote: »

It takes time for new players and a new manager to settle in. I believe there are enough signs of good things to expect better consistency in the coming months.

The signs are there although results have to start coming sooner rather than later. United are arguably the most exciting team in the league to watch for the first time in a long time, the next 2 transfer windows should really fix any problems, particularly defence.

I'm optimistic for the long term but still sh*tting it over the next few months.

Cantona's Collars

bangkok wrote: »

carrick is weak in the air compared to the likes of terry and vidic but he is still good in the air. He is also better than young, Herrera, blind or di maria in the air, that is why I think he will start.

When is the last time he won a header when challenged? I wouldn't depend on him defending set pieces against the likes of Chelsea.

bangkok

zerks wrote: »

When is the last time he won a header when challenged? I wouldn't depend on him defending set pieces against the likes of Chelsea.

look at the last game he played, that is a ridiculous statement!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1WxIDmv-Ak

look from the 1.50 mark onwards.... headers galore

sReq | uTeK

back 4 is set in stone.

I'd go with

Young / Herr / Blind / Maria
Fellani
Falcao

****ing up to Fellani all day long let him destroy Terry and Cahill, flick on for Falcao and his pace and you're laughing all day longs.

I'm not an advocate of this football, but sometimes you just need to play to your strengths especially if it gives you ANY chance against the best team in the league.

BloodBath

Carrick is as good as finished at United as far as I'm concerned. I seriously doubt Van Gaal has him in his long term plans.

There is no way in hell I'd start him in that Chelsea game either. He's been out for ages and Carrick is notoriously slow coming back from injury.

It will take weeks for him to find any form if at all.

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

back 4 is set in stone.

I'd go with

Young / Herr / Blind / Maria
Fellani
Falcao

****ing up to Fellani all day long let him destroy Terry and Cahill, flick on for Falcao and his pace and you're laughing all day longs.

I'm not an advocate of this football, but sometimes you just need to play to your strengths especially if it gives you ANY chance against the best team in the league.

Better off having 2 upfront to keep Chelseas wide backs from pushing up too much and allowing Fellaini to mark Fabregas imo.

That leaves our midfield trio to deal with their attacking 3 midfielders which should seriously limit Chelseas options and not leave our backs open to any 1v1's.

Spazdarn

Carrick not mobile enough to deal with the likes of Fabregas, and not tough enough to bully them. He's not the solution to our multitude of problems.

Donnielighto

Will blind be pressured much, chelseas 2 at the base wont be able to push up on him as the cbs are too slow imo and the space could be exploited. Might give him some freedom to dictate things from our side.

kstand

Spazdarn wrote: »

Carrick not mobile enough to deal with the likes of Fabregas, and not tough enough to bully them. He's not the solution to our multitude of problems.

Neither is Blind - thought he was very slow off the mark and slow to run the other night. Decent passer etc but no pace at all in his legs.

Bandana boy

It would be pretty Funny if uniteds best team was RVP ,Falcao and Rooney competing for one slot to play with Fellani up front.

I almost want him to score and force his way into the starting XI in that "number 10" role.

BloodBath

So in defence we should look something like this.

Rafael--Jones--Rojo--Shaw
--Herrera---Blind---Di Maria
--Van Persie----Fellaini----

---

Falcao

---

With Van Persie and Fellaini marking the double pivot of Matic and Fabregas while the threat of Falcao up front will keep the CB's from breaking shape to help out. It will also make the wide backs reluctant to push up to help out forcing Chelsea to keep 5 in their own half most of the time.

That leave's Herrera, Blind and Di Maria to mark Willian, Oscar and Hazard assuming it's those 3 which means the back's are there to cover 2v1 for anyone who breaks through. Chelsea will have to take chances and break their shape although I can see them sitting back and waiting for us to do that so they can counter.

In attack it's a simple change. Van persie slots up front with Falcao and Di maria is free to overlap Fellaini to join them in which case he slots back to cover for him so we're not totally exposed on the counter.

kstand

Our 2 full back would want to buck their act up a fair bit after the other night. Rafael is a headless chicken and Shaw was caught rotten for the first goal. We wont keep a clean sheet with that back 4. And I don't think Blind has the pace in front of them to cover when the game is stretched.

Spazdarn

He's not going to drop RVP, though he should. Falcao should be the focus of our attacks based on what we've seen so far.

Can't see RVP playing behind Falcao though

MagicMarker

Spazdarn wrote: »

He's not going to drop RVP

I think he will. I've no reason to think he won't, this is Van Gaal we're talking about.

If we play 2 up top then we'll lose.

If we play with 1 striker and pack the midfield, we'll probably still lose. It just won't be as easy for Chelsea. :P

The Moldy Gowl

This is would have been a good game to play Welbeck in.

kstand

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

This is would have been a good game to play Welbeck in.

So he could get shoved around like a child?

Michael D Not Higgins

MagicMarker wrote: »

I think he will. I've no reason to think he won't, this is Van Gaal we're talking about.

If we play 2 up top then we'll lose.

If we play with 1 striker and pack the midfield, we'll probably still lose. It just won't be as easy for Chelsea. :P

RVP is third captain, after Rooney and Fletcher. He's not dropping him.

BloodBath

MagicMarker wrote: »

I think he will. I've no reason to think he won't, this is Van Gaal we're talking about.

If we play 2 up top then we'll lose.

If we play with 1 striker and pack the midfield, we'll probably still lose. It just won't be as easy for Chelsea. :P

I'd say the opposite. If we play 1 up front Chelsea will mark him out of the game and it leaves their wide backs open to press forward all game.

Playing 2 forwards will force Chelsea to keep more players back and help stretch that defence marking 2 forwards.

UnitedIrishman

kstand wrote: »

So he could get shoved around like a child?

No, so we might actually have a pacy outlet to catch Chelsea on the break other than just depend on giving the ball to Di Maria.

Pro. F

bangkok wrote: »

carrick is weak in the air compared to the likes of terry and vidic but he is still good in the air. He is also better than young, Herrera, blind or di maria in the air, that is why I think he will start.

Carrick is not good in the air. It's debatable whether he'd be better than Hererra or Blind at defending set pieces and both of those will be much better in open play than he will be just now.

The Moldy Gowl

kstand wrote: »

So he could get shoved around like a child?

As much as Danny being Limited, his pace and his ability to harras a man isnt one. He would have done a 'job'.
Would prefer him over valencia

Whatsisname

kstand wrote: »

Our 2 full back would want to buck their act up a fair bit after the other night. Rafael is a headless chicken and Shaw was caught rotten for the first goal. We wont keep a clean sheet with that back 4. And I don't think Blind has the pace in front of them to cover when the game is stretched.

Rafael has been probably our best defender so far. But yeah sure he's a headless chicken. Let's put a proper RB in Valencia instead. Stupid sentence.

BloodBath

Yeah I'm not sure where that's coming from.

You could blame multiple people for west broms second goal last Monday.

Rafael for playing him onside, Jones for coming out, Rojo for not covering or Blind for forcing Jones to come out in the first place.

It's just shaky defending from a new team setup. Give them time to gain an understanding of each other and what they should be doing.

bangkok

Pro. F wrote: »

Carrick is not good in the air. It's debatable whether he'd be better than Hererra or Blind at defending set pieces and both of those will be much better in open play than he will be just now.

based on herreras performance v west brom he might not be starting sunday if carrick has done well in behind closed door friendly

Pro. F

bangkok wrote: »

based on herreras performance v west brom he might not be starting sunday if carrick has done well in behind closed door friendly

if

bangkok

Pro. F wrote: »

if

carrick also has 10 years experience playing at the top level, Herrera still has to answer a few questions and is just back from a cracked rib

BloodBath

I'm willing to bet €100 that Carrick will not start the game.

Are you forgetting how poor he was the last time he came back from a long injury?

Not to mention the fact that he has not played a single minute under Van Gaal and the new system yet.

bangkok

BloodBath wrote: »

I'm willing to bet €100 that Carrick will not start the game.

Are you forgetting how poor he was the last time he came back from a long injury?

Not to mention the fact that he has not played a single minute under Van Gaal and the new system yet.

Hahahaha what system is that?! we actually have no system at the moment

Pro. F

bangkok wrote: »

carrick also has 10 years experience playing at the top level, Herrera still has to answer a few questions and is just back from a cracked rib

Experience has never stopped Carrick from being a slow starter before now. If he has played well in friendlies or training games or whatever then he should be under consideration. It is not likely that that is the case.

BloodBath

bangkok wrote: »

Hahahaha what system is that?! we actually have no system at the moment

Not sure what games you are watching but we have been playing a 4-1-2-1-2 diamond formation for the last 4-5 games now and it has been largely effective apart from our defensive frailties.

We look 10 times better than we did last season already and it's early days.

bangkok

BloodBath wrote: »

Not sure what games you are watching but we have been playing a 4-1-2-1-2 diamond formation for the last 4-5 games now and it has been largely effective apart from our defensive frailties.

We look 10 times better than we did last season already and it's early days.

10 times better? last season we had already played city, Chelsea and Liverpool and we are only a point better off this year. my point is carrick is our best defensive midfielder player without doubt. Did you not see blind v Leicester away when we fell apart?

BloodBath

I base how we're playing on the football I see on the pitch, not on points. We are playing a far better brand of football than we were last season after massive upheaval in the team. Even more so than last season with so many new players and many of the old crew gone.

I'm more than happy with how the team is playing so far which is more than I can say about last season. I already wanted Moyes out at this stage. It's obvious to see what Van Gaal is trying to do and it's working for the most part.

Our defence just is not good enough yet which hasn't been helped by massive injury problems.

If you fail to take these things into consideration and only base your opinions on point tallies then you should stop watching football.

Blind is not an out and out defensive mid. Carrick is not the solution either though. Strootman is if we can nab him in January.

Pro. F

BloodBath wrote: »

Not sure what games you are watching but we have been playing a 4-1-2-1-2 diamond formation for the last 4-5 games now and it has been largely effective apart from our defensive frailties.

We look 10 times better than we did last season already and it's early days.

We're no better than we were last season. We've just swapped from being useless attacking to being useless defensively. It's early days yet and it could still be turned around, but as it stands we're no better off.

We didn't play with the diamond last game btw.

bucketybuck

BloodBath wrote: »

I'm willing to bet €100 that Carrick will not start the game.

Are you forgetting how poor he was the last time he came back from a long injury?

Not to mention the fact that he has not played a single minute under Van Gaal and the new system yet.

Do you think LVG will remember how poor he was last time he came back from injury, seeing as LVG wasn't the manager then? Because thats what you are risking your money on.

BloodBath wrote: »

it has been largely effective apart from our defensive frailties.

It kinda hasn't been though, and it would have looked worse if we had played any decent teams.

bangkok

BloodBath wrote: »

I base how we're playing on the football I see on the pitch, not on points. We are playing a far better brand of football than we were last season after massive upheaval in the team. Even more so than last season with so many new players and many of the old crew gone.

I'm more than happy with how the team is playing so far which is more than I can say about last season. I already wanted Moyes out at this stage. It's obvious to see what Van Gaal is trying to do and it's working for the most part.

Our defence just is not good enough yet which hasn't been helped by massive injury problems.

If you fail to take these things into consideration and only base your opinions on point tallies then you should stop watching football.

Blind is not an out and out defensive mid. Carrick is not the solution either though. Strootman is if we can nab him in January.

so where does blind fit into the team if we sign Strootman in January then?

bucketybuck

BloodBath wrote: »

I base how we're playing on the football I see on the pitch, not on points. We are playing a far better brand of football than we were last season after massive upheaval in the team. Even more so than last season with so many new players and many of the old crew gone.

I'm more than happy with how the team is playing so far which is more than I can say about last season.

Personally, I'm starting to think that when people say we are playing better football, they really mean that Di Maria is an exciting footballer, because damn sure most of the rest of them aren't showing much.

RVP is playing poor, Falcao barely figured yet, Mata has been rubbish, Adnan did nowt in his limited gametime. Blind and Herrera looked ok against weak teams but have flattered to deceive since. Rooney has been good and bad.

Are we really playing better, or is the excitement of Di Maria masking over a lot of problems?

kstand

Whatsisname wrote: »

Rafael has been probably our best defender so far. But yeah sure he's a headless chicken. Let's put a proper RB in Valencia instead. Stupid sentence.

Says a lot if you think he has been our best defender so far.

BloodBath

We're playing much better attacking possession based football. It's not nearly as negative as it was last season.

Of course that's made possible by some of the new signings as well as tactics.

The fact that we're doing ok despite some of our big players not performing is encouraging imo. Once they find some form and we shore things up at the back I think we'll be a force to be reckoned with.

I am 100% confident we will get top 4 this season.

so where does blind fit into the team if we sign Strootman in January then?

Utility player. Midfield or left back.

bangkok

bucketybuck wrote: »

Personally, I'm starting to think that when people say we are playing better football, they really mean that Di Maria is an exciting footballer, because damn sure most of the rest of them aren't showing much.

RVP is playing poor, Falcao barely figured yet, Mata has been rubbish, Adnan did nowt in his limited gametime. Blind and Herrera looked ok against weak teams but have flattered to deceive since. Rooney has been good and bad.

Are we really playing better, or is the excitement of Di Maria masking over a lot of problems?

yes agree 100% with this, we signed a world class player and he is the only one who has played well.

rvp, mata have been rubbish, falcao hasn't played enough yet, rooney poor, adnan nothing of note, Valencia young done nothing, blind Herrera ok, shaw Rafael jones rojo all poor enough, de gea class, kept us in a lot of games

Whatsisname

kstand wrote: »

Says a lot if you think he has been our best defender so far.

Who has been better?

Evans has been a calamity.

Jones was doing decent then got injured.

I personally like Rojo but he's still finding his feet.

Shaw's only played about 3 games and caught out of position a few times already.

Smalling has got himself injured as usual.

Blackett/McNair have done ok for their age, nothing special is expected.