Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - See Mod Warning in OP, 09/11

BloodBath

Looks like Van Gaal took my advice of using Fellaini to mark Fabregas for the game. Good and bad stuff from him today but overall he put in a good shift.

Amazing that there is still negativity in here from some supporters.

We got a result against the favourites in the league with our shaky defence and missing 2 of our star players and others. We could have won the game but a draw was a fair result in the end.

We went a bit quiet in the second half which was worrying. The crowd and the players looked like they were beaten. What happened to this singing section? The fans seemed very quiet.

There is steady improvement going on there. I said if Costa wasn't playing the game would be close and it was. Chelsea really aren't that special and we're only a couple of signings off being able compete for the league.

Top 4 is coming this season. The team rebuild completed in the summer and a proper title and champions league run next season.

Believe.

bucketybuck

Was very surprised how completely anonymous Fabregas was, regardless of how Felliani played. I keep forgetting he was on the field, and get surprised when somebody mentions him, I can't remember a single thing he did in that game.

sky88

Blue giant wrote: »

Jones would have probably got injured in it.

And injured someone else

Zico

sky88 wrote: »

And injured someone else

That's his modus operandi these days.

kryogen

Zico, you need to stop drinking, smoking, whatever it is your doing, and maybe back away from the internet for a little while?

Zico

kryogen wrote: »

Zico, you need to stop drinking, smoking, whatever it is your doing, and maybe back away from the internet for a little while?

Yes

kryogen

Night Zico. Enjoy the rambling

Zico

kryogen wrote: »

Night Zico. Enjoy the rambling

Yes

TheDoc

So your LVG planning for Sunday against City.

Do you stick with an underperforming Mata or play an out of practice Rooney ?

Hank Scorpio

TheDoc wrote: »

So your LVG planning for Sunday against City.

Do you stick with an underperforming Mata or play an out of practice Rooney ?

Rooney clearly for me, even though Mata's been ok in general I think we were in desperation mode when we signed him and are starting to realize its not names who make a team, hes been enough

Rooney seems to always turn up in big games for United

Mikeyt086

Mr Alan wrote: »

I didn't see it.

Was at the Giants Causeway while it was on. Came in here after not knowing result and saw declarations of "what a result" and some celebratory gifs, hence why I surprised when I saw it was actually a draw not a win.

Can understand relief & being happy, but wouldn't go over the top about it.

Great stuff.

Condescending as you like, didn't even see the game.

Sure Chelsea aren't even good. Fabregas, Matic, Hazard and the like, spoofers the lot of them. A decent team would have beat them 8-0.

Giggsy11

Fellaini was very good, thought this was probably his best game for ManUtd.

It was evident in the early moments of the game. Headed clearances were cheered. A strong tackle to stop Eden Hazard as he closed in on goal drew loud roars from the Old Trafford crowd. The confidence gained from his performance at the Hawthorns seems to have impacted on the player and the supporters.

Chelsea boss Jose Mourinho might have anticipated dominating the midfield zone. Daley Blind is a tidy playmaker but far from a powerful presence, while Nemanja Matic has proven himself to be a dominant force so far this season. But the inclusion of Fellaini for his first start under Louis van Gaal changed the dynamic.

Playing slightly from the left of midfield but closing down Cesc Fabregas high up the field when he had chance, Fellaini worked hard to stop the man who prompts Chelsea from deep. Fabregas completed only three passes in the first 20 minutes and just 11 in the whole first half.

Given that the Spaniard has played more passes than anybody else in the Premier League, it was remarkable that United were able to stop him getting on the ball

The Premier League tracking data shows that Fellaini covered 12.17 kilometres in the match, the most by any United player, and made 70 high-intensity runs. That was more than anyone else on the pitch and, tellingly, the most he has made in any game in a United shirt.

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/15115/9536571/marouane-fellaini-played-an-important-role-in-shackling-cesc-fabregas-for-manchester-united-against-chelsea

Hotblack Desiato

J. Marston wrote: »

Messiest celebration ever?

Needs a soundtrack...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q62OdupxMZM

RobertKK

Ivan Yates on Newstalk reviewing the game with Phil Thompson said 'Blackett had a poor game'.
Thompson goes 'Blackett?'
Yates didn't catch on that Blackett was not on the pitch.

Hopefully Blackett has another poor game against Yates' favourite team: Man City.

RobertKK

Augeo wrote: »

I think Chelsea seemed very lax, no urgency, I imagine mourinho gave them a lashing at half time. I agree with your ott sentiment

Like when Chelsea had 6 corners before United got their first. Clearly Chelsea were being very lax and no sign of urgency...

RobertKK

GavRedKing wrote: »

Leaking goals? 2nd best defence in the league and 3 of the 8 were against Everton when we won by 3 goals.

Weve let in a goal a game and scored roughly 2.8 per game. Ill take that ratio tomorrow. :pac:

Sorry for this but I can't resist.

Yes leaking goals :P

Chelsea failing to get clean sheets away.
But then United failing to win away.
I suspect both will change for both teams in fairness.

Will I Amnt

Smalling had a good game yesterday, he has the potential to be so good, consistency has always been his problem. I'd like to see him get a proper run of games and see how he fares, providing he can stay injury free of course.
It's such a shame how injury prone the defenders are as a whole, no chance of ever having a settled back 4 with that group of players.

Giggsy11

Tom Kundert @Portu_Goal

Nani just sensational today but another superb performance from João Mário. Spraying the ball around the pitch like a seasoned master.

He assisted 2 goals this weekend. I think he has scored around 4 goals and got few assists.

CantonasCollar

My thoughts on yesterdays match:

1. Another goal for RVP despite another meh performance.

2. Fellaini had a good game.

3. Another typical display from us this season, better first half and a poorer second half.

4. We should have been up at half time, but De Gea saved us in the second half on a few occasions so a draw is probably a fair result.

5. Great to see a last minute goal again.

6. Shaw and Januzaj played well down the left.

7. An encouraging performance against the league leaders shows another step in the right direction.

8. The defence are struggling with such frequent changes at centre back, just can't get a settled pairing.

9. Mata needs to be played in his preferred position when Rooney isn't playing, he just doesn't impact the game as well from a deeper position.

10. Rafael despite being a good player is becoming a bit of a liability.

homerjay2005

its been a long time since we had a goal like that to celebrate and the place was absolute bedlam. i havent seen the place rocking like that or "bounce level" as its called, since 2012 is say - it was sensational.

great point to get and hopefully this kick starts our season as its been a really disappointing one until now.

RVP threw his jersey into the crowd and the lad beside us caught it

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Fellaini was very good, thought this was probably his best game for ManUtd.

Fellaini was excellent yesterday and our best player. weve all given him stick but credit where credit is due and i am delighted for him. Mata was poor though and anybody i talked to on the way out was of the consensus that he is slowly but surely heading towards the exit.

another CM signing, along with a fully fit squad(unlikely i know) and Mata is on his way to being a bit part player as Kagawa was last season.

Giggsy11

CantonasCollar wrote: »

My thoughts on yesterdays match:

1. Another goal for RVP despite another meh performance.

2. Fellaini had a good game.

3. Another typical display from us this season, better first half and a poorer second half.

4. We should have been up at half time, but De Gea saved us in the second half on a few occasions so a draw is probably a fair result.

5. Great to see a last minute goal again.

6. Shaw and Januzaj played well down the left.

7. An encouraging performance against the league leaders shows another step in the right direction.

8. The defence are struggling with such frequent changes at centre back, just can't get a settled pairing.

9. Mata needs to be played in his preferred position when Rooney isn't playing, he just doesn't impact the game as well from a deeper position.

10. Rafael despite being a good player is becoming a bit of a liability.

Mata was played in his best position.

Rafael is not a liability. He was very good yesterday, he was booked around 6th min mark but didn't commit a foul (I think) for the whole 80 odd mins playing against Hazard.

BloodBath

I've been saying Mata isn't good enough for quite a while now. I haven't seen anything from him in a United jersey to suggest he's good enough. The last 3 managers seem to agree as well since he's not first choice for any of them.

Saying that I though he performed better than usual yesterday. He got himself into some good positions and actually made some effort defensively. I even seen him make a block near our box. How often do you see that?

He delivered a sweet pass to Di Maria as well creating a good goal scoring opportunity and he could have had a goal if Van Persie had squared the ball to him on one of his shots. He was wide open in the middle of the box.

He's still a great player to have as back up but will he be happy being second choice? He would get more game time with more competitions next year but I have a feeling he would be suited to Spain or somewhere where his defensive liabilities won't be as much of a problem.

Will I Amnt

Thought Rafael gave up a lot of possession yesterday myself, himself and Di Maria made things a lot harder than they should have been through indecision or trying to take on too much.

Kerrigooney

Was yesterday Fellaini' s best performance for ye guys? Thought he did well yesterday.

KH25

I honestly don't know how raf can be called a liability after yesterday. He was booked early on for a silly pullback (although IMO like ivanovic's first yellow it was a very soft card) but after that he played well and didn't give away any silly fouls. It was a good performance from him.

duffman13

Kerrigooney wrote: »

Was yesterday Fellaini' s best performance for he guys? Thought he did well yesterday.

By far, I thought he played really well, there was a bit towards the end were him and Matic took the ball of each other 2 or 3 times and he just wouldn't give up. It's amazing what a goal can do for a drop of confidence.

Will I Amnt

Didn't see too much wrong with Mata's performance yesterday, held on to the ball well and won a lot of frees with quick feet. It's only in the Premier League that attacking midfielders/number 10's are criticised for their defensive frailties.

duffman13

KH25 wrote: »

I honestly don't know how raf can be called a liability after yesterday. He was booked early on for a silly pullback (although IMO like ivanovic's first yellow it was a very soft card) but after that he played well and didn't give away any silly fouls. It was a good performance from him.

I think the fact he was on a yellow after 5 mins against a Mourinho team and didn't get sent off is a massive achievement. You have to think Jose was telling Hazard to get at him as much as possible. In fact it was almost opposite Rafael yesterday, defending well (bar the goal) but not good going forward.

The goal annoyed me though, it was picked up in commentary a few times that Rafael was marking Drogba, that was always going to be a mismatch.

duffman13

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Didn't see too much wrong with Mata's performance yesterday, held on to the ball well and won a lot of frees with quick feet. It's only in the Premier League that attacking midfielders/number 10's are criticised for their defensive frailties.

Think he has been getting a lot of flack but he hasn't been great in the last couple of games. I just don't think we set up to play to his strengths

Will I Amnt

duffman13 wrote: »

Think he has been getting a lot of flack but he hasn't been great in the last couple of games. I just don't think we set up to play to his strengths

He hasn't been great but he hasn't been nearly as bad as people are making out.

RasTa

How dare any of you celebrate a last min equalizer....

Giggsy11

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Didn't see too much wrong with Mata's performance yesterday, held on to the ball well and won a lot of frees with quick feet. It's only in the Premier League that attacking midfielders/number 10's are criticised for their defensive frailties.

He didn't create much either. He is like Carrick now, plays without balls. Too afraid to take risky option to open up the defense.

Hopefully he will be back to his Chelsea best. Class player but not half the player he was at Chelsea.

duffman13

Will I Amnt wrote: »

He hasn't been great but he hasn't been nearly as bad as people are making out.

I agree but I expected a lot more from him this season. Still early yet and I don't expect him to go anywhere but he needs to make more impact to maintain a place in the team

lordgoat

homerjay2005 wrote: »

Fellaini was excellent yesterday and our best player. weve all given him stick but credit where credit is due and i am delighted for him. Mata was poor though and anybody i talked to on the way out was of the consensus that he is slowly but surely heading towards the exit.

another CM signing, along with a fully fit squad(unlikely i know) and Mata is on his way to being a bit part player as Kagawa was last season.

I think I'd agree with this. Felliani was so disciplined. Worked hard and positionally was quite solid. I thought Mata was poor again. He's too slow to release the ball imo. I hope I'm wrong but I can't see him lasting at the club.

Janz was class. One or two more years and I can see him being one of the best in the league.

Rafael awful yet again, another stupid booking, he's grand going forward but positionally he's poor. Often the wrong side, sure he looks great with the tough tackles but Ivanovic and Coleman are a country mile ahead of him.

I will say though Raf is still better than Rojo, looks completely out of his depth, i'm hoping it's settling in that the problem is.

BloodBath

Nobody said he's bad. It's a case of is he good enough? Does he offer enough in a crucial position?

How flexible is he position wise? Good players can be played in multiple roles/positions to a high standard.

This is Manchester United we're talking about. The bar is high. Maybe too high for Mata.

You could excuse his lack of defensive skills if his attacking skills were amazing but they aren't.

Don't give me this crap of number 10's shouldn't be expected to have defensive skills either. Defence starts from the front. Closing down players, blocking and putting them under pressure as soon as they gain possession and tracking back when needed.

Harvey Low Fat Milk

My view about the whole marking on set pieces thing is a bit more forgiving. I don't think United could match Chelsea man for man in size. Ivanovic, Terry, Cahill, Matic and Drogba are all huge and have aerial goal threats. United had Fellaini, Smalling, Rojo and arguably RVP as the only United players physically matched and they were on three/four of them. There was bound to be one or two players in mismatches and Chelsea would've exploited it. Sickened by the goal and I think the 'wrong' man was on Drogba but there was always gonna be few mismatches at set pieces.

DM_7

Will I Amnt wrote: »

He hasn't been great but he hasn't been nearly as bad as people are making out.

He was only okay. Created a couple of chances and was at his best in the first half when United broke quickly, something Chelsea stopped in the second half.

It was a tight game with little space to play in overall so I am not sure what could realistically be expected of him on the day. Di Maria, Januzaj, Fabregas, Oscar all struggled to get space to play and create in. Hazard was the best of the attackers but not as influential as Chelsea would have liked.

Chelsea chose to keep Oscar and sell Mata, Oscar did even less than Mata during the match.

Larry Wildman

Mata was a panic buy. Mourinho wanted rid of him which is a huge "caveat emptor". He's been given a chance in his favoured position and has been a big disappointment. We already had a number 10 (Kagawa) who wasn't really given a chance. Incredible stuff really.

DM_7

BloodBath wrote: »

Nobody said he's bad. It's a case of is he good enough? Does he offer enough in a crucial position?

How flexible is he position wise? Good players can be played in multiple roles/positions to a high standard.

This is Manchester United we're talking about. The bar is high. Maybe too high for Mata.

You could excuse his lack of defensive skills if his attacking skills were amazing but they aren't.

Don't give me this crap of number 10's shouldn't be expected to have defensive skills either. Defence starts from the front. Closing down players, blocking and putting them under pressure as soon as they gain possession and tracking back when needed.

That is not how Van Gaal set up United to defend so why would Mata defend that way on his own?

Giggsy11

Fellaini vs Matic, if it was any other midfielder Matic would have brushed them off easily.

http://giant.gfycat.com/AthleticUnhealthyCygnet.webm

Larry Wildman

Re Mata, Mourinho didn't fancy him and he can't really get a look in for the Spanish national side. And the proof of the pudding is in the eating...He has been poor for United.

A panic buy and a misfit.

BloodBath

DM_7 wrote: »

That is not how Van Gaal set up United to defend so why would Mata defend that way on his own?

Yesterday or in general. I'm not talking about yesterdays game here.

I already said Mata performed decently yesterday. It was one of his better games.

I still think Rooney would have had a bigger impact on the game though.

DM_7

BloodBath wrote: »

Yesterday or in general. I'm not talking about yesterdays game here.

I already said Mata performed decently yesterday. It was one of his better games.

I still think Rooney would have had a bigger impact on the game though.

Generally he has not asked United to defend that way, allows opposition defenders time on the ball in deep positions and puts the squeeze on when the ball moves further forward, Mata has has no issue doing his defensive closing down when the ball is in midfield.

Its got United in trouble away from home as that suits Premier League teams who can then position other players higher up the pitch and play a long ball with a higher percentage chance of retaining possession.

homerjay2005

lordgoat wrote: »

Ivanovic.... a country mile ahead of him.

ive said this a couple of times before, but if i could sign one defender for United, it would be this man. he can play accross the back 4, solid as f*ck and has a threat in the final 3rd also.

Yesterday just confirmed it for me. he is a super player.

KH25

homerjay2005 wrote: »

ive said this a couple of times before, but if i could sign one defender for United, it would be this man. he can play accross the back 4, solid as f*ck and has a threat in the final 3rd also.

Yesterday just confirmed it for me. he is a super player.

And he was wrongly sent off too. Second challenge was a yellow by all means but not the first. The victim of a very poor referee. Ivanovic had a great game otherwise.

BloodBath

DM_7 wrote: »

Generally he has not asked United to defend that way, allows opposition defenders time on the ball in deep positions and puts the squeeze on when the ball moves further forward, Mata has has no issue doing his defensive closing down when the ball is in midfield.

Its got United in trouble away from home as that suits Premier League teams who can then position other players higher up the pitch and play a long ball with a higher percentage chance of retaining possession.

I'm talking about immediately after losing possession in their half. Obviously you don't want to commit too many men in their half when they have possession.

Like Rooneys red card there. Yes it was stupid but he seen danger and tried to foul to stop it. If he had caught the player lower it would have been a simple yellow. It's a defensive awareness you will not find with Mata.

beno619

lordgoat wrote:

Rafael awful yet again, another stupid booking, he's grand going forward but positionally he's poor. Often the wrong side, sure he looks great with the tough tackles but Ivanovic and Coleman are a country mile ahead of him.

lordgoat wrote:

I will say though Raf is still better than Rojo, looks completely out of his depth, i'm hoping it's settling in that the problem is.

Ivanovic, Zabaleta,Coleman and Rafa would be the elite RB in the league and there wouldn't be that much between them.

Rafa has done a hell of a lot more in football than Coleman.

BloodBath wrote:

Nobody said he's bad. It's a case of is he good enough? Does he offer enough in a crucial position?

Yes Mata is world class, he had a solid first half but was very quite in the second.

Giggsy11

lordgoat wrote: »

I think I'd agree with this. Felliani was so disciplined. Worked hard and positionally was quite solid. I thought Mata was poor again. He's too slow to release the ball imo. I hope I'm wrong but I can't see him lasting at the club.

Janz was class. One or two more years and I can see him being one of the best in the league.

Rafael awful yet again, another stupid booking, he's grand going forward but positionally he's poor. Often the wrong side, sure he looks great with the tough tackles but Ivanovic and Coleman are a country mile ahead of him.

I will say though Raf is still better than Rojo, looks completely out of his depth, i'm hoping it's settling in that the problem is.

He makes lot of rash and cynical fouls and gets away with it. Yesterday if Rafael made the foul like he did on Januzaj near the box people would have called Rafael an idiot, rash, liability and all the names under sun.

Ivanovic is excellent though. Arguably the best RB over the last 4-5 years. Just that if Ivanovic committed same foul on Hazard it would have been called as good defending after making wrong step, that's experience and all that.
Every single yellow card by Rafael is deemed as rash. It's so easy to put a wrong step when you face a fantastic dribbler like Hazard.

Same with Fellaini. Not sure who but someone blamed him for his yellow after pulling Hazard's shirt, that was a good foul tbh but Fellaini was blamed by 1 or 2 fans (not sure in this forum or other) but when Chelsea players did the same thing (like Hazard vs Rafael, Cesc, Oscar) it's called being cynical and knows how to break the game.

The Moldy Gowl

KH25 wrote: »

And he was wrongly sent off too. Second challenge was a yellow by all means but not the first. The victim of a very poor referee. Ivanovic had a great game otherwise.

Second yellow was a yellow, first was a yellow. Could have been booked for other tackles during the match.
Rightly sent off, not that it mattered when it was the last kick of the game.

BloodBath

KH25 wrote: »

And he was wrongly sent off too. Second challenge was a yellow by all means but not the first. The victim of a very poor referee. Ivanovic had a great game otherwise.

The first was for dissent, not the foul.