Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - See Mod Warning in OP, 09/11

kryogen

Deiseboy01 wrote: »

I dont think you can play three centre forwards in a side and expect it to function well.

Your back five is fine.

Midfield has to have Carrick in there, id go with Carrick Blind then Jan Herrera Di Maria with Rooney up top.

Van Gaal said he prefers Rooney as a 10, and since he is the captain, he will be playing. Rightly or wrongly.

I don't see Wilson forcing his way past Falcao or Van Persie for the foreseeable future anyway. If you mean to change the formation I would not be opposed to that, but for that I would personally be dropping Rooney, which as I have already said is impossible, because he is captain.

Billy86

homerjay2005 wrote: »

ah come off it, at this stage any player who can stay fit and/or complete games for a couple of weeks is an upgrade.

the sad thing is, almost everybody with half a brain knew that our defensive options were not good enough taking into account the last few years worth of injury problems. its a right mess the club left it get to, defenders should have been lined up and signed since May.

It obviously was an exaggeration, but the fact is if we were in a position to sign Ramos he would not be cheap and after a few Monash it would become quite apparent he is certainly no Vidic or Ferdinand.

Hococop

Seems city can't break Europe

Giggsy11

DM_7 wrote: »

Where are they playing him?

Left wing.

kryogen

Hococop wrote: »

Seems city can't break Europe

They losing?Drawing?

Nice, might see Pellegrini get the bullet if he fails to land the league and exits the CL early again, good manager, would gladly see the back of him

Pro. F

DM_7 wrote: »

I am not concerned about it like you are, Mata has acknowledged the need for more work in defence which is good, i don't see a real reason that he can't become used to that workload.

How many games did he play there this season with three midfielders behind him, three times? I think he did well in those games overall. (The three I am thinking are a 4-0 v OPR, a 2-1 v Everton and a 1-1 against Chelsea - a game his equivalent Oscar was poor).

Maybe it won't work out in time but I am happy to see him given chances to do it this season and be there next when the system may be developed or expanded upon further.

He also played at 10 behind two CFs in the three games we played 532, that role has similar demands on the 10. He was quiet in those games too. So that's six games in total, a reasonable sample to look at. I think he has been an issue in all of those games.

Maybe he'll improve in that role, maybe he won't. He hasn't yet. Maybe we'll change the system again and he'll fit better in the next one, that would mean that we've wasted a lot of resources this season (money, players, points) building a system we don't stick with.

DM_7 wrote: »

Maybe so, priority in his first summer was probably to get players for his first team, which he did, the others were/are back up players. Makes sense to me.

Getting a reserve right-back was only one of a few things that needed to be done. First team talent was definitely a priority. But spending £120m and still having only one right-back is poor. Spending £120m and still only having one right-back and huge issues with squad balance in midfield and attack is shocking.

Hococop

kryogen wrote: »

They losing?Drawing?

Nice, might see Pellegrini get the bullet if he fails to land the league and exits the CL early again, good manager, would gladly see the back of him

Lost 2-1 and had 2 players sent off

MagicIRL

:-)

Manutd_4life

yaya toure was on rage mode today. Lol. Kinda pissed off now, if only chris smalling had a bit of sense but lets not go there again.

Hococop

Manutd_4life wrote: »

yaya toure was on rage mode today. Lol. Kinda pissed off now, if only chris smalling had a bit of sense but lets not go there again.

Yaya was an idiot but nasri should have been sent off aswell, disgraceful tackle

When I see the way they played tonight it makes me even more annoyed at smalling

homerjay2005

Hococop wrote: »

Seems city can't break Europe

Their recent form (failing to best CSKA twice, losing once along with defeats to west ham and newcastle) certainly takes any gloss of those who took "positives" out of our defeat the last day.

You could argue given the circumstances and how poor City were against 10 men that it was a great chance missed and perhaps a game that should have been won.

The_Kew_Tour

Really important we get 3 points on Saturday.

Even now at this stage were we to drop points here it would raise a eyebrow.

Nalz

moan

DM_7

Pro. F wrote: »

He also played at 10 behind two CFs in the three games we played 532, that role has similar demands on the 10. He was quiet in those games too. So that's six games in total, a reasonable sample to look at. I think he has been an issue in all of those games.

Maybe he'll improve in that role, maybe he won't. He hasn't yet. Maybe we'll change the system again and he'll fit better in the next one, that would mean that we've wasted a lot of resources this season (money, players, points) building a system we don't stick with.

6 games is a tiny number.

Van Gaal is going to change a huge amount that will impact on the players he brought in so it won't be a waste of money from his management. He didn't buy Mata. He bought Herrea, Shaw, Rojo, Di Maria, Blind who are all in his first team this season. Falcao was brought in late because he became an option and his quality level was beyond anything else at the club.

If formation changes the ideas about how he wants his players to operate won't change much so time isn't going to be wasted either.

Pro. F wrote: »

Getting a reserve right-back was only one of a few things that needed to be done. First team talent was definitely a priority. But spending £120m and still having only one right-back is poor. Spending £120m and still only having one right-back and huge issues with squad balance in midfield and attack is shocking.

It would be shocking of it was undeniably true. United signed 7 players that can play in the first team. Without Champions League the squad numbers needed to be lower and only quality needed to be bought, a back up right back was way down the list when back up right backs were already available within the squad.

Huge issues with squad balance in midfield and attack is, in my opinion, an exaggeration of the situation.

Slight changes in formation dictated by players available or the requirements of a particular game should not be a problem once the players understand what is required and the general idea about defending, build up play etc stay the same.


Overall the defending is the worry and the area that is deserving of criticism.

Hococop

homerjay2005 wrote: »

Their recent form (failing to best CSKA twice, losing once along with defeats to west ham and newcastle) certainly takes any gloss of those who took "positives" out of our defeat the last day.

You could argue given the circumstances and how poor City were against 10 men that it was a great chance missed and perhaps a game that should have been won.

True I believe we would have atleast got a draw only for the red card, ah well its easy to say what if

UnitedIrishman

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Really important we get 3 points on Saturday.

Even now at this stage were we to drop points here it would raise a eyebrow.

They're missing their best player too. Need a convincing win before the break.

The_Kew_Tour

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

They're missing their best player too. Need a convincing win before the break.

Agree.

We really have just get on with it get 3 points and put on a decent display.

Bleating Lamb

Bleating Lamb wrote: »

Crystal ball out,Utd in Champions league having stolen 4th place from Liverpool on goal difference with a Falcao hat trick on last day of league season.
Top of a tough CL grp which includes Barcelona,CSKA Moscow and Ludogrets the legends!
Tonight at H/T v Barca it's one all.
Utd line up- De Gea,Azpilicueta,Jones,Evans,Shaw,Reus,Herrera,Vidal,Di Maria,Rooney,Falcao.
Subs- Valdes,Rafael ,Hummells,Rojo,Blind,Mata,Schneiderlin,Wilson.
Januzai,Carrick,Smalling,Mc Nair,Blackett all injured.
RVP sold for 20m sterling in Summer to Quatar Sheiks new team!
Nani swopped for Azpiliqueta.
Ah that's what dreams are made of.

adox wrote: »

Hummells on the bench makes fantasy post void.

Naah....Evans started 2015 season in great form,Keeping Hummells on bench,sure we all know that;)

Pro. F

DM_7 wrote: »

6 games is a tiny number.

Van Gaal is going to change a huge amount that will impact on the players he brought in so it won't be a waste of money from his management. He didn't buy Mata. He bought Herrea, Shaw, Rojo, Di Maria, Blind who are all in his first team this season. Falcao was brought in late because he became an option and his quality level was beyond anything else at the club.

If formation changes the ideas about how he wants his players to operate won't change much so time isn't going to be wasted either.

Indeed he didn't buy Mata. But that doesn't absolve him of the responsibility of getting the best out of the resources (players and money) available to him. If LVG doesn't get the best out of Mata because he got in another CF and the new system doesn't suit Mata then that is a failing on LVG's part.

Points have been wasted this season by changing formation so much. Van Gaal's philosophy can stay the same but the players will still need time to adapt every time the formation and line-ups are changed. We've seen the evidence of how that is damaging to the team performances.

Maybe Mata will kick on and improve in the 10 role behind two CFs. I had doubts when the formation was first proposed and as yet there has been no evidence to put my doubts to rest.

DM_7 wrote: »

It would be shocking of it was undeniably true. United signed 7 players that can play in the first team. Without Champions League the squad numbers needed to be lower and only quality needed to be bought, a back up right back was way down the list when back up right backs were already available within the squad.

Huge issues with squad balance in midfield and attack is, in my opinion, an exaggeration of the situation.

Slight changes in formation dictated by players available or the requirements of a particular game should not be a problem once the players understand what is required and the general idea about defending, build up play etc stay the same.

Overall the defending is the worry and the area that is deserving of criticism.

Back-up right backs were not available in the squad. Smalling and Jones were injury prone and needed at CB. Valencia is not a right-back. We had one right-back, no back-ups.

We have had the most dramatic changes of formation possible. 532, 442 diamond and 4231 (or 433 as LVG likes to call it) are as far apart as formations get. There is no way you can describe those as slight changes in formation.

It is no exaggeration to say there are still huge issues with squad balance in midfield and attack. As it stands my claim is supported by the constant changing of formation required by any injury to the front three; the complete lack of cover for Di Maria; the over reliance on Di Maria for creativity; the lack of strength in depth on the wings and the under performance of Mata at 10 with these narrow midfields.

This might all be sorted out in time. But anybody saying that LVG hasn't been guilty of poor planning and wasting money since he took over is plain wrong.

irishfeen

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Really important we get 3 points on Saturday.

Even now at this stage were we to drop points here it would raise a eyebrow.

Absolutely no doubt - 3 points is a must ... no excuses, 3 points whatever way we play.

DM_7

Pro. F wrote: »

This might all be sorted out in time. But anybody saying that LVG hasn't been guilty of poor planning and wasting money since he took over is plain wrong.

And i'm out

kryogen

We will win, we will play well.

Mantis Toboggan

Not being able to beat crystal Palace is unthinkable.

Not even LVG would be able to worm his way out of that one should we lose.
The knives will be very much out for him if it's anything less than Victory. Honeymoon period is well and truly over.

I'd expect the team to come together and beat a very limited Palace side. 3-0 United.

irishfeen

Jaysus Phil did very very well for himself... she's a fine thing :eek:

Hococop

irishfeen wrote: »

Jaysus Phil did very very well for himself... she's a fine thing :eek:

My god the man can't make a normal face ha

irishfeen

Hococop wrote: »

My god the man can't make a normal face ha

Ha ha he's a gas man

kryogen

Buddy Holly wrote: »

Not being able to beat crystal Palace is unthinkable.

Not even LVG would be able to worm his way out of that one should we lose.
The knives will be very much out for him if it's anything less than Victory. Honeymoon period is well and truly over.

I'd expect the team to come together and beat a very limited Palace side. 3-0 United.

On their day they can be a handful, have beaten Everton away, only narrowly lost to Chelsea etc, but I fully expect us to win and play well

Mantis Toboggan

kryogen wrote: »

On their day they can be a handful, have beaten Everton away, only narrowly lost to Chelsea etc, but I fully expect us to win and play well

Don't care what they're like on their day there can't be anymore excuses if we cannot beat them in old Trafford.

kryogen

Buddy Holly wrote: »

Don't care what they're like on their day there can't be anymore excuses if we cannot beat them in old Trafford.

Righteo

Rayne Wooney

Mata should be used against the lesser teams when we don't need Rooney to put a shift in

We should be starting to put smaller teams to the sword at this stage, with the quality we have

DM_7

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Mata should be used against the lesser teams when we don't need Rooney to put a shift in

We should be starting to put smaller teams to the sword at this stage, with the quality we have

You thinking

Herrera Blind

---

Di Maria

---

Mata

---

Rooney RVP

For Saturday?

glued

Rooney has been rubbish. For having two 'top class' number 10's neither are performing to any decent kind of level.

Rooney is a massively overrated player at this stage and he really should be moved on. Although being captain that is very unlikely. Hasn't done it in 3 years for us.

kryogen

glued wrote: »

Rooney has been rubbish. For having two 'top class' number 10's neither are performing to any decent kind of level.

Rooney is a massively overrated player at this stage and he really should be moved on. Although being captain that is very unlikely. Hasn't done it in 3 years for us.

That's all well and good in your head I suppose, of course, in reality you are just wrong.

ps, I don't even like Rooney.

The Moldy Gowl

http://gfycat.com/ShallowOptimisticImperialeagle

Look at this gif, I have seen some people saying this is why he is best in the world and bla bla. I saw this in reddit, look at the top comment (most thanked) http://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/2lep8t/neuers_83rd_minute_doublesave_to_preserve_his/

De gea makes those kinda double saves about 5 times every match. If De Gea didnt play at UTD and all the abus didnt automatically just dismiss him, he would be considered one of the best keepers in the world.

kryogen

Anyone who doesn't consider him one of the best in the world is not really worth paying much attention to in fairness.

Maximus Alexander

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

http://gfycat.com/ShallowOptimisticImperialeagle

Look at this gif, I have seen some people saying this is why he is best in the world and bla bla. I saw this in reddit, look at the top comment (most thanked) http://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/2lep8t/neuers_83rd_minute_doublesave_to_preserve_his/

De gea makes those kinda double saves about 5 times every match. If De Gea didnt play at UTD and all the abus didnt automatically just dismiss him, he would be considered one of the best keepers in the world.

Until he's back in the CL and playing for the national side he won't get the recognition he deserves.

The Moldy Gowl

I know, I think he about the same as Neur, but Neur only has to make a handful of saves, Davey makes about 20 odd saves using his penis as a rudder to guide him. He is the best in the leauge. Courtois is only a gowl.

The Moldy Gowl

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Until he's back in the CL and playing for the national side he won't get the recognition he deserves.

the 2 things Neur has, now he is 3rd best player in the world apparently. Its not even a reddit thing. its here as well.

He really should be making half the saves he does but the consistency of his saves is unreal, when hazard got one on one I expected it to be saved.

glued

kryogen wrote: »

That's all well and good in your head I suppose, of course, in reality you are just wrong.

ps, I don't even like Rooney.

So you don't like Rooney yet you still disagree?

Cool story bro

kryogen

Neuer is obviously not the 3rd best player in the world.

kryogen

glued wrote: »

So you don't like Rooney yet you still disagree?

Cool story bro

I knew a girl used to use that expression quite a bit, was that you Bridie?

I don't disagree, you are just wrong. There isn't an argument there for me to disagree with really.

Now for another tale, have you ever heard that you can dislike someone, and still be aware that they have qualities? It is possible you know. Use the force.

The Moldy Gowl

glued wrote: »

So you don't like Rooney yet you still disagree?

Cool story bro

Its called being objective, just because he dosent like him for whatever reason dosent mean, Rooney is now a bad player. Its common around here and annoying as ****. Just because someone dosent like someone, they are now a bad player and dont want them in their team. I.e. Giggs and affair. Becks and his looks. Lazza and fellaini.

kryogen wrote: »

Neuer is obviously not the 3rd best player in the world.

A lot of it going on lately, obviously he isnt, Davey is.

glued

kryogen wrote: »

I knew a girl used to use that expression quite a bit, was that you Bridie?

I don't disagree, you are just wrong. There isn't an argument there for me to disagree with really.

Now for another tale, have you ever heard that you can dislike someone, and still be aware that they have qualities? It is possible you know. Use the force.

It's strange that you can dislike somone as a person considering you have never met them, now that is truly bizarre. One would naturally assume that when you refer to disliking someone on a football forum that you're referring to their ability as a footballer.

The Moldy Gowl

I hate Vidal because of his stupid pikey looking haircut and stupid moronic chin strap beard. If I saw him in Limerick I would think he was a traveler, dosent mean I know think he is crap. Bought him on fifa for 15 mill, my most solid player. ****ing hate his cutscenes.

kryogen

glued wrote: »

It's strange that you can dislike somone as a person considering you have never met them, now that is truly bizarre. One would naturally assume that when you refer to disliking someone on a football forum that you're referring to their ability as a footballer.

Pretty simple really, I don't like his public persona. I suppose, what you might take from this experience is that assumption is the mother of all **** ups? (As you obviously haven't already learnt it from Steven Seagal films)

Now to move the goal posts back to your original statement-

Finally, no, I am not foolish enough to doubt Rooneys ability as a footballer, it is very obvious for everyone to see. Anybody who thinks he is rubbish, and hasn't done it for 3 years now is simply incorrect.

I would have a kind of morbid curiosity actually as to how someone could genuinely reach that conclusion.

The Moldy Gowl

http://gfycat.com/RelievedSoupyBoaconstrictor

This about sums up why Rooney should start ahead of Mata, for tight matches.

The Moldy Gowl

A comment I found while creeping amongst the depths of the internet. Sums up how a lot of people are being very fickle judging us up to now.

A win and fixtures going our way, we could be sat 6th, 4 points adrift of 4th. I don't expect Southampton or West Ham to stay there all season, 6th - 2 places = 4th.
Liverpool have Chelsea. A win for us would no doubt see us leapfrog them. Arsenal have Swansea. Any result there would either see us overtake Swansea or go within a point of Arsenal.
A decent win, and a win against Arsenal, which is easily do-able, and we could easily be knocking on the door to 4th.

Also, vermealan has been injured and hasnt featured for Barca

kryogen

We are 4 points off 4th now aren't we?

The Moldy Gowl

Yeah, 4 off arsenal, 7 off man city, 9 off southamption.

Also 4 off 18th, 6 off 19th, 9 off 20th for the pessimists

Are we the same distance to relegation, than to second? Even the hardcore negative Nellys would find that hard when they base the leauge and performance off points.

The Moldy Gowl

Liam O wrote: »

Just the goal and assist from Nani tonight. In the Champions League.

It was a tap in. http://gfycat.com/CanineTinyDeinonychus