Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - See Mod Warning in OP, 09/11

Ordinary man

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Yes, because I think Herrera is a better player than him. Fellaini has done well, but his forward passing isn't to the standard I feel required and I would hope his physicality isn't needed all the time. I think Herrera offers great work rate and is far better on the ball.

I want to see herrera back but i still feel that fellaini deserves his place on form. Rvp, falcao,wilson and mata should all be below him in the pecking order based on what each has done this season. Players should earn and keep their places based on performance, not what they could do

DM_7

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Wilson would be wasted kept wide. that kid is INSANE in the box, his predatory skills in the box are what will, hopefully, set him apart as a top talent. Quick feet, positional intelligence and a clinical finisher.

Yes I agree, he is great around the box himself, he would be better at running in behind than RVP or running off RVP which is where I would want him to be most often. In cases where he can run into space out wide then it would be good for RVP as well but I wouldn't want that to be his primary job.

Backstreet Moyes

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Yes, because I think Herrera is a better player than him. Fellaini has done well, but his forward passing isn't to the standard I feel required and I would hope his physicality isn't needed all the time. I think Herrera offers great work rate and is far better on the ball.

Herrera has yet to do anything in a United jersey to suggest he should start ahead of Fellaini. He has been nothing but average while Fellaini has been our best player in the last 3 games nevermind just best midfielder.

Also this myth about poor passing and not being able to pass forward has been firmly proved wrong the last few games.

Also Fellaini has proven the last few games his workrate has been fantastic.

The physicality i don't really understand sides usually walk through our midfield we certainly need some physicality.

Backstreet Moyes

Wilson like Janjuaz would be better off with a premiership loan.

Nalz

Mr Alan wrote: »

He beat 1 player?

lolz

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmidaZ9oSyE

He turned one, bet another and nutmegged another.. but go ahead with your

basillarkin

Trilla wrote: »

lolz

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmidaZ9oSyE

He turned one, bet another and nutmegged another.. but go ahead with your

And then dived looking for a pen when he lost control. Great skill up to the dive though. DiMaria should have scored.

Mr Alan

Trilla wrote: »

lolz

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmidaZ9oSyE

He turned one, bet another and nutmegged another.. but go ahead with your

First touch was fortuitous miscontrol.
So in reality he went by one fella who had stupidly committed himself to a huge sliding tackle & nutmegged another who was doing his best impression of a statue.

Messi he is not.

Giggsy11

Mr Alan wrote: »

First touch was fortuitous miscontrol.
So in reality he went by one fella who had stupidly committed himself to a huge sliding tackle & nutmegged another who was doing his best impression of a statue.

Messi he is not.

So that's 2.

Will I Amnt

Mr Alan wrote: »

First touch was fortuitous miscontrol.
So in reality he went by one fella who had stupidly committed himself to a huge sliding tackle & nutmegged another who was doing his best impression of a statue.

Messi he is not.

You are the one that brought "beating" players into it, nobody said anything about "beating" a player until then.
He took 4 players out of the game with the turn and run.

DM_7

Nuts102 wrote: »

Wilson like Janjuaz would be better off with a premiership loan.

Not so sure about that one.

They are at a delicate stage of their careers, they need to be managed carefully as they would still be growing and the best care and attention they can get is at the club that owns them.

They don't need to be playing every week this season, Januzaj will feature in most games, which is what he needs now. Wilson will work with RVP, Falcao, Rooney every day as well as get introduced to first team football at a rate that (hopefully) won't see him burnt out or getting injured.

If they were a little older and less likely to get game time at OT then I would see a lot of value in a loan.

Giggsy11

Will I Amnt wrote: »

You are the one that brought "beating" players into it, nobody said anything about "beating" a player until then.
He took 4 players out of the game with the turn and run.

First it was "he beat only 1 player" and now it's a miscontrol, player was standing like a statue and all that non sense.

Rayne Wooney

Ordinary man wrote: »

I'd like to see

---

blind

---

herrera- fellaini- di maria

---

mata

---

---

rooney

---

Pack the midfield and let the fb provide width. Herrera and di maria can go wide into space and rooney's movement would create space for others.

I think that's overkill unless we are playing one of the top 4

Against most teams we should be able to swap Fellaini for Falcao or RVP and play Mata behind them

Will I Amnt

Giggsy11 wrote: »

First it was "he beat only 1 player" and now it's a miscontrol, player was standing like a statue and all that non sense.

Some people don't like others to be happy with any little thing, always there to take them down a peg or two, if they're faffing over something well they will find a fault in it and if there's none they will try anyway.

Backstreet Moyes

Mr Alan wrote: »

First touch was fortuitous miscontrol.
So in reality he went by one fella who had stupidly committed himself to a huge sliding tackle & nutmegged another who was doing his best impression of a statue.

Messi he is not.

Who said he is Messi just you, did you even see the game?

Was it not you in here being puzzled why United fans were happy about the performance against Chelsea despite admitting you didn;t see the game.

It's quite clear what your intentions are when you come into this thread and it's a bit sad to be honest.

Mitch Connor

Nuts102 wrote: »

Herrera has yet to do anything in a United jersey to suggest he should start ahead of Fellaini. He has been nothing but average while Fellaini has been our best player in the last 3 games nevermind just best midfielder.

Also this myth about poor passing and not being able to pass forward has been firmly proved wrong the last few games.

Also Fellaini has proven the last few games his workrate has been fantastic.

The physicality i don't really understand sides usually walk through our midfield we certainly need some physicality.

I don't think Fellaini has really done any more than Herrera has, to be honest. I think the praise Fellaini is getting is over the top. He has looked good for us, and he did a good job on Fabregas, but in terms of ball use he hasn't really done anything and I still see him as no more than a good squad player. I'm not saying he doesn't pass forward, i'm saying his forward passing is not particularly tight or creative. Herrera is a better, more creative, passer of the football.

If we are looking for a CM to use the ball productively and properly interact with our attack I'm picking Herrera. If we are looking for a CM to provide a combative pressence, help on offensive and defensive set pieces and play simple in a functional formation, I'll go with Fellaini.

My ideal preference with regards style and formation would call for the passer more than the physicality - so I see absolutely no reason when picking Herrera over Fellaini in this instance makes little sense.

It is also not like Herrera shies away from the defensive side of the game either.

Also, taking out the goal, I don't think Fellaini looked a top class midfielder vs West Brom in his 45mins.

He did very well vs Chelsea defensively but I see/saw nothing creative or attacking in his passing.

Not going to comment on his attacking play vs City as the sending off ruined our defensive and midfield shape, making it difficult for anyone not simply running with the ball to look particularly good.

Vic Vinegar

Nuts102 wrote: »

It's quite clear what your intentions are when you come into this thread and it's a bit sad to be honest.

Exactly, well said.

homerjay2005

great to see nani doing well. of course its impossible to say he would replicate that form at United, but id rather he was still playing for us as opposed to Adnan, Young or Valencia.

Your Airbag

I think Fellaini has slightly edged Herrera in terms of performance impact lately.

What do people think of our newly acquired midfield duo of Blind and Herrera so far?

I think Blind is a slight upgrade on Carrick, younger, faster and very solid. Herrera is a hard worker but hasn't exactly lit things up as yet, not that he's done anything wrong but he is our roaming creative MF of the pair. He's eager and all that but again its a slight improvement over what we had ie more roaming upfield and forward passes than Clev but not quite the creativity from passing that Giggs offered us at times. An improvement overall but not a revolutionary upgrade.

We look a bit more solid and energetic in MF but still fall behind many of the MF's that the top clubs have.

We still need a world beater in there. It looks like a choice between Strootman and Vidal unless those report about us scouting Perez from Benfica are true. I think it will be next summer before we see a new MF player brought in as its bound to be CBs in January.

DM_7

Happy with Blind and Herrera signings and as a pair.

Herrera has performed well (when fit) this season, better than Fellaini imo.

Herrera, Blind and Di Maria as a trio provides the best midfield United have had for a long time.

Nalz

basillarkin wrote: »

And then dived looking for a pen when he lost control. Great skill up to the dive though. DiMaria should have scored.

Ah come on, you could clearly argue there was contact before he went down. Whether it was a penalty or not, I don't think he dived.



I was making the point he bet more than 1 player. That point was made...although I shouldn't waste my time with MrAlan on this point. Clear as mud what he was at

homerjay2005

Carrick back in the England squad

Shaw also back, along with Smalling and Rooney.

Chambers you would assume has taken Jones place, so i guess that means Jones wont be back for a good few weeks yet.

Mitch Connor

homerjay2005 wrote: »

Carrick back in the England squad

Shaw also back, along with Smalling and Rooney.

Chambers you would assume has taken Jones place, so i guess that means Jones wont be back for a good few weeks yet.

What? I thought he retired? How the feck did he get back in?

Nalz

Mitch Connor wrote: »

What? I thought he retired? How the feck did he get back in?

Didn't he come out of retirement?

Mitch Connor

Trilla wrote: »

Didn't he come out of retirement?

NO idea, clearly!

bangkok

homerjay2005 wrote: »

Carrick back in the England squad

Shaw also back, along with Smalling and Rooney.

Chambers you would assume has taken Jones place, so i guess that means Jones wont be back for a good few weeks yet.

yes well looking at englands midfield, carrick is probably the best defensive player they have at the moment

Nalz

Mitch Connor wrote: »

NO idea, clearly!

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/international/carrick-earns-england-recall-after-hodgsons-retirement-confusion-8031857.html

newballsplease

Smalling ? Lol at En ger land

Backstreet Moyes

DM_7 wrote: »

Happy with Blind and Herrera signings and as a pair.

Herrera has performed well (when fit) this season, better than Fellaini imo.

Herrera, Blind and Di Maria as a trio provides the best midfield United have had for a long time.

Herrera has not performed better than Fellaini. He has been average so far while Fellaini has been our best player the last three games.

Herrera might turn into a great signing but he has done nothing at United yet.

Leroy42

Seeing the shambles that is Man City last night brings into perspective our 'performance' against them. They are nothing great, suffering from a massive gap in confidence, their defence is woeful (Kompany is living off last year) and yet me did little to suggest that we were better than them.

Of course the sending off made a massive difference to the game, but we should have been getting at least a draw out of that. Plenty of teams have gone down to 10 men and still got a result.

Mitch Connor

Nuts102 wrote: »

Herrera has not performed better than Fellaini. He has been average so far while Fellaini has been our best player the last three games.

Herrera might turn into a great signing but he has done nothing at United yet.

I think you are over blowing Fellaini's performances. I'll give you the Chelsea game, but I would not say he was our best player vs West Brom or City.

Also, I would say Herrera's performances vs West Ham and QPR were better than Fellaini's vs West Brom.

As an example...

Both have played 5 games this season. WhoScored gives Herrera a better average rating for the 5 games than Fellaini.

I would say Herrera has been as good (better imo) than Fellaini in as many games as Fellaini has done well in.

keane2097

Herrera was class in a couple of games before he got injured.

Backstreet Moyes

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I think you are over blowing Fellaini's performances. I'll give you the Chelsea game, but I would not say he was our best player vs West Brom or City.

Also, I would say Herrera's performances vs West Ham and QPR were better than Fellaini's vs West Brom.

As an example...

Both have played 5 games this season. WhoScored gives Herrera a better average rating for the 5 games than Fellaini.

I would say Herrera has been as good (better imo) than Fellaini in as many games as Fellaini has done well in.

Herrera's best performances have been at home to the worst side in the league and a West Ham side we should be beating at home.

Fellaini has done it against Chelsea and City and imo in the last two games got the better of the two best midfielders in the league.

I hope Herrera does well but i think Fellaini after the last three games has done enough to be starting in cm for now.

Montroseee

I think any difference in performance level between Fellaini and Ander are negligible, the main highlight stemming from this is that Fellaini has shown himself to be a decent CM option finally. It's nice having 3 good players for the 2 CM spots, pretty different from having to choose the least worst option in there the last few years.

The Moldy Gowl

What an odd dilemma we have. We are arguing over whether one midfielder should start over the other.

For once it's not who has been less crap but who was better.

DM_7

Yeah, I would prefer to see Herrera on Saturday but won't be pissed off if its Fellaini.

Backstreet Moyes

Montroseee wrote: »

I think any difference in performance level between Fellaini and Ander are negligible, the main highlight stemming from this is that Fellaini has shown himself to be a decent CM option finally. It's nice having 3 good players for the 2 CM spots, pretty different from having to choose the least worst option in there the last few years.

Anybody who has watched Everton or Belgium for years could have told you that. It's great to see him have his confidence back and i agree it is great to have good options.

Carrick looked good on Sunday also it will be nice to have a good few options for midfield.

Mantis Toboggan

Your Airbag wrote: »

I think Fellaini has slightly edged Herrera in terms of performance impact lately.

What do people think of our newly acquired midfield duo of Blind and Herrera so far?

I think Blind is a slight upgrade on Carrick, younger, faster and very solid.

I like Blind, he's a decent player and works very hard but one thing he's definitely not is fast, in fact he's one of the slowest players in the league!

homerjay2005

Montroseee wrote: »

It's nice having 3 good players for the 2 CM spots, pretty different from having to choose the least worst option in there the last few years.

technically its now 4 - Herrera, Blind, Carrick and Fellaini.

Fletcher next best and poor Ando 6th choice!

MD1990

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I think you are over blowing Fellaini's performances. I'll give you the Chelsea game, but I would not say he was our best player vs West Brom or City.

Also, I would say Herrera's performances vs West Ham and QPR were better than Fellaini's vs West Brom.

As an example...

Both have played 5 games this season. WhoScored gives Herrera a better average rating for the 5 games than Fellaini.

I would say Herrera has been as good (better imo) than Fellaini in as many games as Fellaini has done well in.

Who Scored ratings are terrible. Lovren has a 7.2 average in the PL this season despite being very poor.

Blatter

I've seen a lot of people mention Blind's lack of pace. I'm not sure why, I thought his speed is about average for a DM? Are the likes of Carrick, Alonso, Busquets etc. faster than him?

The bigger issue is his ability. He's decent enough but like Carrick, he tends to look a lot better when he's not getting pressed and has plenty of time on the ball.

The Moldy Gowl

Buddy Holly wrote: »

I like Blind, he's a decent player and works very hard but one thing he's definitely not is fast, in fact he's one of the slowest players in the league!

FACT

No, he isn't

adox

Blatter wrote: »

I've seen a lot of people mention Blind's lack of pace. I'm not sure why, I thought his speed is about average for a DM? Are the likes of Carrick, Alonso, Busquets etc. faster than him?

The bigger issue is his ability. He's decent enough but like Carrick, he tends to look a lot better when he's not getting pressed and has plenty of time on the ball.

I think hes a bit quicker of mind than Carrick so is better when pressed. Sees the pass quicker and can so release the ball quicker.

He does seem very slow covering the ground, to me, and slower than the players youve listed above. Its only really glaringly obvious when hes caught high up the pitch and has to track back. he looks like hes treading water sometimes.

I reckon his ideal position would have been the old fashioned sweeper. Hes very tidy on the ball, can see and play a good pass early, is very sound defensively both in the tackle and (mostly)positionally.

keane2097

Blatter wrote: »

I've seen a lot of people mention Blind's lack of pace. I'm not sure why, I thought his speed is about average for a DM? Are the likes of Carrick, Alonso, Busquets etc. faster than him?

The bigger issue is his ability. He's decent enough but like Carrick, he tends to look a lot better when he's not getting pressed and has plenty of time on the ball.

Yeah I think you are right here.

Blind is nice and tidy, an upgrade on Carrick with the ball - very good at receiving it and moving it forward. Possibly Carrick will be better at that side with better movement ahead of him as well.

Nobody ever looks as good when they are being pressed, the problem United have at the moment is the shaky defence means teams are getting plenty of joy while pressing as it's leading to more chances being created.

If you have a defence that doesn't cough up as much during periods of pressure the results will become less fruitful for opposition sides and the motivation to do the pressing will diminish. The more the attack clicks into gear the more pressing will lead to being caught on the counter-attack and the less Blind/Carrick/whoever will have to deal with it.

Blind is totally squad-level for where United's aspirations will be of course, but he brings a lot to the table at the moment in his own right.

Billy86

Blatter wrote: »

I've seen a lot of people mention Blind's lack of pace. I'm not sure why, I thought his speed is about average for a DM? Are the likes of Carrick, Alonso, Busquets etc. faster than him?

The bigger issue is his ability. He's decent enough but like Carrick, he tends to look a lot better when he's not getting pressed and has plenty of time on the ball.

Blind is better on the ball, but Carrick is better and reading the game and shielding. Personally I would prefer Blind against the weaker teams and Carrick k (or both) against the stronger ones for now.

Blatter

adox wrote: »

I think hes a bit quicker of mind than Carrick so is better when pressed. Sees the pass quicker and can so release the ball quicker.

He does seem very slow covering the ground, to me, and slower than the players youve listed above. Its only really glaringly obvious when hes caught high up the pitch and has to track back. he looks like hes treading water sometimes.

I reckon his ideal position would have been the old fashioned sweeper. Hes very tidy on the ball, can see and play a good pass early, is very sound defensively both in the tackle and (mostly)positionally.

keane2097 wrote: »

Yeah I think you are right here.

Blind is nice and tidy, an upgrade on Carrick with the ball - very good at receiving it and moving it forward. Possibly Carrick will be better at that side with better movement ahead of him as well.

Nobody ever looks as good when they are being pressed, the problem United have at the moment is the shaky defence means teams are getting plenty of joy while pressing as it's leading to more chances being created.

If you have a defence that doesn't cough up as much during periods of pressure the results will become less fruitful for opposition sides and the motivation to do the pressing will diminish. The more the attack clicks into gear the more pressing will lead to being caught on the counter-attack and the less Blind/Carrick/whoever will have to deal with it.

Blind is totally squad-level for where United's aspirations will be of course, but he brings a lot to the table at the moment in his own right.

I think it says a lot that LVG only ended up completing his signing on the last day of the window.

I think if he had rated him very highly and had no doubts about him, he would have snapped him up a lot earlier.

As it stands he is a grand signing though. Can cover a few positions and I can't see his value decreasing by much at all anytime soon.

Rayne Wooney

I saw somewhere that in his last 15 appearances for Holland under LVG Blind played DM once

I think Van Gaal knows he is a good option to have in midfield, but I think we will buy a better midfielder soon. Probably Strootman

Your Airbag

Buddy Holly wrote: »

I like Blind, he's a decent player and works very hard but one thing he's definitely not is fast, in fact he's one of the slowest players in the league!

I mean faster than Carrick. I don't have any stats on it but I assume he is given their ages.

keane2097

Blatter wrote: »

I think it says a lot that LVG only ended up completing his signing on the last day of the window.

I think if he had rated him very highly and had no doubts about him, he would have snapped him up a lot earlier.

As it stands he is a grand signing though. Can cover a few positions and I can't see his value decreasing by much at all anytime soon.

Yeah exactly right again I would say. A case of "we can't get everyone we want in one window, what can we get?".

I tend to think everything bar the Falcao deal was very sensible in the summer, if you take it as read that there's a limit to how much you can do in a finite period of time.

Quandary

For the money he cost and what he offers the team, Blind is one of our most important signings in a while IMO. Right now I'd say he's one of the first names on the team sheet.

If another premier league team had signed him we would be looking at him doing his stuff for them and probably be moaning about how we never manage to snap up quality players at decent prices.

I'm delighted we signed him and I honestly think he is going to be a very important player for us over the next couple of years.

The Moldy Gowl

Would be nice if he became a better version of John o Shea. Left back, midfield, defender.

This is the assumption we vastly improve all areas in the next years.