Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - See Mod Warning in OP, 09/11

Vic Vinegar

Certain WORDS capitalized for no REASON.

The Moldy Gowl

Ill just leave this here. top 3 are good

http://www.whoateallthepies.tv/lists/4842/20_teenage_foot.html

syngindub

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

Ill just leave this here. top 3 are good

http://www.whoateallthepies.tv/lists/4842/20_teenage_foot.html

get out of it !!..

syngindub

number 7 setting the world on fire alright

The Moldy Gowl

Only Kroos has really 'made it'. Balotelli to a certain degree.

Blue giant

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

Only Kroos has really 'made it'. Balotelli to a certain degree.

I would say a certain Sergio Aguero has definitely "made it"

kryogen

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

Ill just leave this here. top 3 are good

http://www.whoateallthepies.tv/lists/4842/20_teenage_foot.html

Those lists just remind me of how special a talent he was as a youngster and how little promise he fulfilled

kryogen

Like, you look at the world golden boy

Winners[edit]
Year Winner Native country Club Source(s)
2003 Rafael van der Vaart Netherlands Netherlands Ajax [1]
2004 Wayne Rooney England England Everton [1]
2005 Lionel Messi Argentina Spain Barcelona [1]
2006 Cesc Fàbregas Spain England Arsenal [1]
2007 Sergio Agüero Argentina Spain Atlético Madrid [1]
2008 Anderson Brazil England Manchester United [2]

I mean the form for that award had been working out perfectly!

irishfeen

From the looks of it this is our TV coverage until February - Hull, Stoke & QPR not televised in Ireland.

Will I Amnt

irishfeen wrote: »

From the looks of it this is our TV coverage until February - Hull, Stoke & QPR not televised in Ireland.

Playing twice in 4 days after the Arsenal game and neither of them televised :mad:

irishfeen

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Playing twice in 4 days after the Arsenal game and neither of them televised :mad:

Seemingly Liverpool picked twice over us them exact dates

The Moldy Gowl

kryogen wrote: »

Like, you look at the world golden boy

Winners[edit]
Year Winner Native country Club Source(s)
2003 Rafael van der Vaart Netherlands Netherlands Ajax [1]
2004 Wayne Rooney England England Everton [1]
2005 Lionel Messi Argentina Spain Barcelona [1]
2006 Cesc Fàbregas Spain England Arsenal [1]
2007 Sergio Agüero Argentina Spain Atlético Madrid [1]
2008 Anderson Brazil England Manchester United [2]

I mean the form for that award had been working out perfectly!

Did he win it twice?

Lord TSC

Will add that to the op now.

shrewdness

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

Did he win it twice?

No, the "2" next to his name is a link to a source on Wiki.

The winners since Anderson are; Pato, Balotelli, Gotze, Isco and Pogba.

aligator_am

irishfeen wrote: »

From the looks of it this is our TV coverage until February - Hull, Stoke & QPR not televised in Ireland.

Is it likely that the matches will be televised in other countries?

If that's the case then I'd imagine there would be ways to view, even if the commentary is in Russian or whatever

The Moldy Gowl

shrewdness wrote: »

No, the "2" next to his name is a link to a source on Wiki.

The winners since Anderson are; Pato, Balotelli, Gotze, Isco and Pogba.

ah.


im sorry I clicked into it. of all the other players, only 1 dosent make it. ****ing one. He joins utd and he gets ruined by injuries. Typical.

looking at those players, even if we did pay 30 million, im cool with that. (I know we didnt but a lot of ignorant people do)

Whatsisname

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

ah.


im sorry I clicked into it. of all the other players, only 1 dosent make it. ****ing one. He joins utd and he gets ruined by injuries. Typical.

looking at those players, even if we did pay 30 million, im cool with that. (I know we didnt but a lot of ignorant people do)

Could say the same about Pato though

TheDoc

Just watched a RVP highlight reel of his first season.

Really hits home just so poor he has been since then, he was unstoppable that year

Manutd_4life

aligator_am wrote: »

Is it likely that the matches will be televised in other countries?

If that's the case then I'd imagine there would be ways to view, even if the commentary is in Russian or whatever

Yeah thats usually the case. I usually get an american channel when looking for a stream when its not on tv, like fox sports

kryogen

Whatsisname wrote: »

Could say the same about Pato though

Yep, absolutely torn apart with his injuries

irishfeen

aligator_am wrote: »

Is it likely that the matches will be televised in other countries?

If that's the case then I'd imagine there would be ways to view, even if the commentary is in Russian or whatever

Its absolutely certain that the matches will be broadcast in other countries - NBC for instance in the US secured the rights to all 380 league matches, most countries outside Europe hold the same rights. We are probably the most restricted country for PL matches outside the UK.

Billy86

irishfeen wrote: »

Its absolutely certain that the matches will be broadcast in other countries - NBC for instance in the US secured the rights to all 380 league matches, most countries outside Europe hold the same rights. We are probably the most restricted country for PL matches outside the UK.

Compare it to the NFL where you can pay $100 to have access to every single game of the season (either live, in full on repeat, extended highlights, or brief highlights) on both laptop and phone and it's kind of embarrassing to be honest.

Rayne Wooney

id like to see some stats on how many goals RVP scored when he took two or more touches, thinking back to Fergies last season I think a good percentage of goals he created himself as far I remember


In other news FIFA investigated FIFA and subsequently found that FIFA aren't corrupt, at least now we know

Pro. F

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

They are a bit like us and the glazers in a way.

People thought roman would pull out and they would be bankrupt, people thought the glazers will suck all the money and bankrupt us.

Both posting unreal profits.


Just goes to show how many people are stupid and cluless when it comes to these medium/long term business plans.
Pseudo economists and financiers waving their scarfs

Your stupid reasoning just goes to show how clueless you are about this subject. If you paid attention to the world of finance you would know that leveraged takeovers regularly cause successful businesses to suffer, often resulting in them going bust. Taking big risks with other people's money (ie a company who's losses you are not liable for) is standard practice. If one of those risks pays off, it doesn't prove that it wasn't a risk.

Hotblack Desiato

Perhaps not that likely, but we could have ended up like Leeds. Peter Ridsdale would be a hero not a pariah now if his gamble had paid off.

Crimson King

Wonder if any more injuries will occur over the weekend?

bullvine

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

Ill just leave this here. top 3 are good

http://www.whoateallthepies.tv/lists/4842/20_teenage_foot.html

Anderson really was that good, such a shame. :mad:

As the guy that wrote the article points out how quickly he adapted to the premier league.

Your Airbag

Pro. F wrote: »

Your stupid reasoning just goes to show how clueless you are about this subject. If you paid attention to the world of finance you would know that leveraged takeovers regularly cause successful businesses to suffer, often resulting in them going bust. Taking big risks with other people's money (ie a company who's losses you are not liable for) is standard practice. If one of those risks pays off, it doesn't prove that it wasn't a risk.

Given what you just wrote I wouldn't go calling posters clueless on the world of finance. Its a long term plan lasting decades, as Glow hinted at.


What the Glazers did was a classic case of making a short term loss in order to make a long term profit, just like Sony did with the PS3 and bluray battle.

If you think the Glazers didn't call in the actuaries and have a blueprint for the next 20 years minimum of what was going to happen regards loss/debt/sponsorships and ultimately profit then your not with it.

As we can see it was carefully planned, they would have know the level of debt they were getting into and how it would upset thew fanbase. The first years are always the toughest but as we can see they are making some amazing progress.

Considering the debt at its peak they have made unbelievable progress in getting it down so quickly. Obviously this was planned to a tee as in the progress the have turned us into a financial giant.

To summarise this situation as "taking a risk" is massively over simplfying it. Of course there are risks, there are risks in everything. You take a risk crossing the road but financial experts minimise risk and have recovery plans that ensure success and the Glazers had a really good plan.

In the future we will be debt free and the Glazers will rake in more money and other clubs will look on in awe at what they did. This won't be a fluke, this will be because they expertly knew what they were doing.

To observe just the first few years of debt and to worry and panic like many fans did shows a lack of understanding of the long term plan in place after a takeover.

The Moldy Gowl

Thank you YA. I wasnt even going to bother to reply. They have books and books of contingency plans, risk assesment, hedging. What have you. Everything would have been accounted for, even an arsenal fall, or a moyes season. It shows how strong and solid the plan was through the recession, although soccer didnt really get 'that' affected at the top.

To say they went in headless and didnt really know what they were doing, crossing their fingers is just waving that green and gold flag.

Pro. F

Your Airbag wrote: »

Given what you just wrote I wouldn't go calling posters clueless on the world of finance. Its a long term plan lasting decades, as Glow hinted at.


What the Glazers did was a classic case of making a short term loss in order to make a long term profit, 1 just like Sony did with the PS3 and bluray battle.

If you think the Glazers didn't call in the actuaries and have a blueprint for the next 20 years minimum of what was going to happen regards loss/debt/sponsorships and ultimately profit then your not with it.

As we can see it was carefully planned, they would have know the level of debt they were getting into and how it would upset thew fanbase. The first years are always the toughest but as we can see they are making some amazing progress.

Considering the debt at its peak they have made unbelievable progress in getting it down so quickly. Obviously this was planned to a tee as in the progress the have turned us into a financial giant.

To summarise this situation as "taking a risk" is massively over simplfying it. Of course there are risks, there are risks in everything. You take a risk crossing the road 2 but financial experts minimise risk and have recovery plans that ensure success and the Glazers had a really good plan.

In the future we will be debt free and the Glazers will rake in more money and other clubs will look on in awe at what they did. This won't be a fluke, this will be because they expertly knew what they were doing.

To observe just the first few years of debt and to worry and panic like many fans did shows a lack of understanding of the long term plan in place after a takeover.

1 The Sony PS3 bluray decision was not part of a leveraged buy out so is vastly different to the Glazer's take over of United. The fact that you would equate a company product decision with an LBO strategy shows you don't have a notion of what you are talking about.

2 Financiers minimise risk to themselves. When they are insulated from the risk - such as in an LBO - it is common practice to take on high risk in order to maximise the upside.

Pro. F

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

Thank you YA. I wasnt even going to bother to reply. They have books and books of contingency plans, risk assesment, hedging. What have you. Everything would have been accounted for, even an arsenal fall, or a moyes season. It shows how strong and solid the plan was through the recession, although soccer didnt really get 'that' affected at the top.

To say they went in headless and didnt really know what they were doing, crossing their fingers is just waving that green and gold flag.

The fact that you think my argument is based on the idea that the Glazer's didn't know what they were doing or what the risks were, shows that you haven't read it.

Your Airbag

Pro. F wrote: »

1 The Sony PS3 bluray decision was not part of a leveraged buy out so is vastly different to the Glazer's take over of United. The fact that you would equate a company product decision with an LBO strategy shows you don't have a notion of what you are talking about.

2 Financiers minimise risk to themselves. When they are insulated from the risk - such as in an LBO - it is common practice to take on high risk in order to maximise the upside.

Man UTD is a company/business what have you. I said it was similar in terms that they were willing to take the short term hit in order to make a long term profit, which they are well on track to do. That comparison of the loss in order to make a profit side was obviously what I was getting.

Stating that I think we are like Sony, a video games company is just you strawmanning when its clear I wasn't comparing the companies.


What evidence do you have to support your claims btw? I'm sure the Glazers would have lost a lot of money had it not worked. Do you have anything to support how great a risk it was and how close it came, if at all, to failing? because it looks like a roaring success right now.

The Moldy Gowl

Some people could hav been worried 10 years ago, they were entitled to. Sure they didn't know anything of the deal or details, they were fed mis truths. They haven't changed their mind.

But they really shoul be changing their mind by now. There is no shame in changing your mind. You don't always have to stick to your guns.

Donnielighto

People saying the LBO was so great are missing a key point in that utd had debts to service that required on field success to allow the club to leverage it's appeal and get sponsorship at the level it has.
It was hugely risky and could have sunk the club.

As owners the Glazers seem to have been good other than that huge risk. They keep out of the limelight and have backed lvg in the market. They also set up structures that have massive revenue streams for the club. But they still put the club in a very precarious position, a slight dip in form could have ended the club.

Your Airbag

We are eying up Athletic Bilbao defender Aymeric Laporte apparently.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/man-united-plot-transfer-swoop-4623816

From what I can see he is a highly rated youngster in Spain getting rave reviews. People rate him along with Varane in terms of reading the game and looking experienced at such at young age. He doesn't have UCL experience which is the only mark against him I have read so far.


Also, PSV boss has said Depay will be sold.

http://www.lifeismufc.in/2014/11/depay-will-be-sold.html

A very good player that has worked with LVG before. If we can't get Reus in January or the summer this guy could be a good buy. He's young, very fast and a good prospect by the looks of it. Has a keen eye for goal too.

With January right around the corner it wouldn't mind us getting in two CBs with a mixture of experience and youth. What players do we expected to get linked with

Vlarr
Hummels
Pique
Shawcross

good for experience


Laporte
Varane
John Stones (his name has been banded about recently)

for youth prospects

The Moldy Gowl

Hummels and pique would cost close to 80-100 mill. would sort us out nicley though

Will I Amnt

I thought Depay was a formality when LvG got the job. I was sure he would sign after the World Cup.

bucketybuck

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

Hummels and pique would cost close to 80-100 mill. would sort us out nicley though

€90m for Hummels is more than I would spend to be honest.

Billy86

bucketybuck wrote: »

€90m for Hummels is more than I would spend to be honest.

But I would gladly pay 100mn for him and Subotic combined.

adox

The thought of Pique back in a utd shirt is hugely underwhelming. I really hope he isn't on the radar.

Liam O

Will I Amnt wrote: »

I thought Depay was a formality when LvG got the job. I was sure he would sign after the World Cup.

Maybe there's one of the world famous deposits down on him

kryogen

I signed Laporte in FM14, turned out to be a good bit of business. Naturally this means if we do sign him in real life the form will work out

Whatsisname

kryogen wrote: »

I signed Laporte in FM14, turned out to be a good bit of business. Naturally this means if we do sign him in real life the form will work out

Also the man to sign in Fifa 15 too. Or 14.

Pro. F

Your Airbag wrote: »

Man UTD is a company/business what have you. I said it was similar in terms that they were willing to take the short term hit in order to make a long term profit, which they are well on track to do. That comparison of the loss in order to make a profit side was obviously what I was getting.

Stating that I think we are like Sony, a video games company is just you strawmanning when its clear I wasn't comparing the companies.

I didn't state that you think United are like Sony. I said that you were equating a company product decision (Sony PS3 blu-ray decision) with an LBO strategy (Glazer take-over of United), which you were. Equating the two is nonsense.

Your Airbag wrote: »

What evidence do you have to support your claims btw? I'm sure the Glazers would have lost a lot of money had it not worked. Do you have anything to support how great a risk it was and how close it came, if at all, to failing? because it looks like a roaring success right now.

The Glazers would have lost their investment of £272m. You can describe that as a "lot" if you want, but it's relatively small in the grand scheme of things. The rest of the money required to buy the club (£560m) was borrowed against the club and their ownership of it (source: Red Football lmt offer for Manchester United PLC & 2006 Refinancing Investment Memorandum (see page 11, The original transaction)). For the equity they put up the Glazers got to work with an £832m investment (the total cost of buying the club). As is the standard practice with LBOs they took on higher risks to maximise the upside while dumping as much of the risk onto the target company (United) as they could.

Judging the amount of risk undertaken based on the current - or let's say "final" for the sake of argument - outcome is completely wrong. It's like a poker player who judges his play based on the outcome of the bet rather than the choices he made with his hand in the game. And to call it a roaring success is ridiculous. You do know that the Glazers ended up selling 10% of their stake in the club during their debt refinancing don't you? There's no way that can be described as a roaring success for an investment plan.

With regards to evidence that the club was put at risk, I'm not going to go into detail on that with you. It has all been discussed at extreme length on this forum before; see the United Financial Situation thread for that. The bottom line is this: football is unpredictable by design, any financial plan that requires a club to maintain a level of success in order to meet debt repayments means the club is being put at unacceptable risk. It isn't unacceptable risk for the financial investors in this case, they are only putting up a relatively small portion of the money at risk and they don't care about the club, it is unacceptable to any fans who want the club to continue existing in a healthy state in the long term.

Pro. F

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

Some people could hav been worried 10 years ago, they were entitled to. Sure they didn't know anything of the deal or details, they were fed mis truths. They haven't changed their mind.

But they really shoul be changing their mind by now. There is no shame in changing your mind. You don't always have to stick to your guns.

Good job on steadfastly refusing to acknowledge the existence of the counter argument presented.

Start the conversation off with mocking of those who hold a different opinion to you and then finish it up with an offer of clemency for anybody who "admits they were wrong". Well played.

kryogen

Question for you lads (Your Airbag and Pro F)

Have you ever actually agreed on anything?

Whatsisname

:o:o:o:o

https://twitter.com/Sport_Witness/status/533347946704945153


















Does it ever end?

Lord TSC

Mitch Connor

sure we can have valdes in nets for the next game.

sky88

Whatsisname wrote: »

:o:o:o:o

https://twitter.com/Sport_Witness/status/533347946704945153


















Does it ever end?

So sign valdes up just incase