Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - See Mod Warning in OP, 09/11

Donnielighto

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

The treatment rooms are going to end up the size of a small hospital at this rate :rolleyes:

Any update on Blind?

Injured both eyes.

Crimson King

Just looking at the form table this morning and United, Burnley and QPR are the only teams that have not won an away game yet this season. And those other teams occupy the bottom places in the league. We can look at stats all we want, that is appalling form which is glossed over by home form.

Even one win from the three draws would have an extra two points and equal on points with fourth placed West Ham. These are the fine margins in the PL.

The_Kew_Tour

Im confident we won't be beaten this weekend for whatever reason.

Rayne Wooney

bucketybuck wrote: »

50 games is basically a full season! Doesn't sound like a good record to me.

if he has missed 12 games a season for the last 4 years and Dortmund play almost 50 games in all competitions he's still averaging about 30 games a season despite being 'injury prone'

As I said earlier I doubt any of our defenders over the past 4 or 5 years have a better much record than that

bucketybuck

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

As I said earlier I doubt any of our defenders over the past 4 or 5 years have a better much record than that

Perhaps they don't, but I'm not sure we should be setting the bar that low. Just about every defender in world football has a better injury record than our lot.

aperture_nuig

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Im confident we won't be beaten this weekend for whatever reason.

Arsenal are the reason. They haven't been at the races in a match against us in years. I'm confident too, but I would also be very wary of Sanchez against what ever ramshackle defense we have on Saturday.

kryogen

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Im confident we won't be beaten this weekend for whatever reason.

Cause its Arsenal and we generally do well against them regardless of personnel for some reason.

kryogen

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

if he has missed 12 games a season for the last 4 years and Dortmund play almost 50 games in all competitions he's still averaging about 30 games a season despite being 'injury prone'

As I said earlier I doubt any of our defenders over the past 4 or 5 years have a better much record than that

He has so far, missed 10 games this season, he missed 27 games last season and 9 the season before, the worry is that its been a lot of knee and ligament injuries the last couple of years

They appear to be getting worse rather then better, 27 games last year and well on course to get close to that number again this year having already missed 10

His ankle ligaments have been a problem going back as far as I can remember tbh and now if his knee is also becoming a problem he will just be another more expensive Owen Hargreaves, whats the point?

There are more centre backs out there that would improve us (which isn't a huge claim I know)

I love Hummels, but think it would be very risky to spend huge money on him, which is what would be required

Just to put up the figures

08/09 - 26 games missed
09/10 - 4 games missed
10/11 - 2 games missed
11/12 - 1 game missed
12/13 - 9 games missed
13/14 - 27 games missed
14/15 - 10 games missed so far.

sky88

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Im confident we won't be beaten this weekend for whatever reason.

Me too cause i think there defence is in worse shape then ours. if we can get the attack fluid id fancy the win, sanchez does worry me of course but he cant keep this goal scoring up hopefully

kryogen

Just to expand on Hummels, most people say Rafa is too injury prone. So lets take a look at his figures over the same period

08/09 - 14 games missed
09/10 - 3 games missed
10/11 - 9 games missed
11/12 - 0 games missed
12/13 - 5 games missed
13/14 - 5 games missed
14/15 - 6 games missed so far

42 games missed due to injury compared to Hummels 79 games missed due to injury, not too far off double the amount of games missed, and with more serious injuries, with more potential long term implications.

How is one considered too brittle and the other worth spending £40-50m on?

K4t

Headshot wrote: »

A good time to buy from Dortmund since I just cant see them get a CL spot next season

They'll believe they can win it.

Mitch Connor

sky88 wrote: »

Me too cause i think there defence is in worse shape then ours. if we can get the attack fluid id fancy the win, sanchez does worry me of course but he cant keep this goal scoring up hopefully

We have rafa coming back from inury, Evans coming back from injury, Jones coming back from injury, Rojo out and Shaw possibly out.

Smalling is the only senior defender that is match fit, and he can be an utter dunce more often than not.

How on earth can our defence be considered in better shape than ANYONES?

kryogen

How did Smalling play for England actually? Wasn't paying much attention to the game, did he play well?

The Moldy Gowl

kryogen wrote: »

Just to expand on Hummels, most people say Rafa is too injury prone. So lets take a look at his figures over the same period

08/09 - 14 games missed
09/10 - 3 games missed
10/11 - 9 games missed
11/12 - 0 games missed
12/13 - 5 games missed
13/14 - 5 games missed
14/15 - 6 games missed so far

42 games missed due to injury compared to Hummels 79 games missed due to injury, not too far off double the amount of games missed, and with more serious injuries, with more potential long term implications.

How is one considered too brittle and the other worth spending £40-50m on?

Reputation, that's what.

Cantona's Collars

https://twitter.com/Marcotti/status/535382255582343168

How many midfielders do they need,looks like Chiellini is staying at Juve too.That's 2 off the free transfer list for January.

brinty

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Im confident we won't be beaten this weekend for whatever reason.

Atta boy Kew, love this type of optimism
If there's one thing i'm always confident off its going to the emirates and getting a result...
Secret Agent Welbz to score a late goal to win it for us.... rip off his arsenal top and reveal a t-shirt with "i the Iron Tulip" on it
You know Arsenal have a terrible record for own goals after all!!!!

kryogen

zerks wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Marcotti/status/535382255582343168

How many midfielders do they need,looks like Chiellini is staying at Juve too.That's 2 off the free transfer list for January.

If true it won't come as a huge surprise really, most Germans dream of playing for Munich. Just trying to think of who it frees up from Munich, nobody of importance imo unless I am forgetting someone

There are stories Shaqiri is available in January for 20million, could be a nice addition though not a priority of course

Chiellini is someone I would love at the club but cant see it

keeponhurling

I don't think United will bring in anybody in January, aside from possibly recall Nani.

6 players were added recently, plus Wilson, McNair and Blackett didn't feature last season, so they're better off allowing the team to settle.

brinty

kryogen wrote: »

If true it won't come as a huge surprise really, most Germans dream of playing for Munich. Just trying to think of who it frees up from Munich, nobody of importance imo unless I am forgetting someone

There are stories Shaqiri is available in January for 20million, could be a nice addition though not a priority of course

Chiellini is someone I would love at the club but cant see it

Javi Martinez perhaps??? Pep doesn't seem to be a fan.

I know he's currently injured but he could be a bloody massive adddition for us, he's in his mid 20's so still time to get a huge fee down the line from Barca or Madrid when he wants to go home..

Can play CB and DCM...

Tell me what i'm missing out on here??

The Moldy Gowl

If I was khedira why would I go to bayern? Apart from being German.

Seems like an easy choice for him. Could have come to England and have a nice little challenge and be first choice.


I thought they couldn't discuss contracts with other teams until they had 6 months left?

Liam O

brinty wrote: »

Javi Martinez perhaps??? Pep doesn't seem to be a fan.

I know he's currently injured but he could be a bloody massive adddition for us, he's in his mid 20's so still time to get a huge fee down the line from Barca or Madrid when he wants to go home..

Can play CB and DCM...

Tell me what i'm missing out on here??

Yep, other than the fact Madrid or Barca (transfer ban?) will probably be looking for him now, maybe Chelsea, City and Arsenal too if United can offer him the best deal then it'd be everything in a player that's needed. Cover for CB and a top class DM.

United should be ravenous with Bayern players this Summer or even January. So many out of favour players that would significantly improve them. Like how Bayern profited when Real and Barca were buying everyone under the Sun and discarding them.

Al Capwned

Kryogen's posts re Hummels and Rafael are one of the reasons I love the United superthread.

I'm sharing that to a United fans group I'm in on FB Kryo, if you dont mind.

The Moldy Gowl

Harvest those likes.

Al Capwned

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

Harvest those likes.

Yeah, I'll get that liver transplant yet.

Vic Vinegar

kryogen wrote: »

How did Smalling play for England actually? Wasn't paying much attention to the game, did he play well?

Smalling was very good, looked very comfortable.

Pighead

kryogen wrote: »

Chiellini is someone I would love at the club but cant see it

Raised my eyebrow when reading this as I wrongly thought Chiellini was 33 or 34. Surprised to see he's only 30. Real oldschool defender and tough as old boots.

kryogen

Pighead wrote: »

Raised my eyebrow when reading this as I wrongly thought Chiellini was 33 or 34. Surprised to see he's only 30. Real oldschool defender and tough as old boots.

Yeah it is kinda surprising alright, that amount of talent and experience and still plenty left in the tank presumably

Blatter

kryogen wrote: »

Just to expand on Hummels, most people say Rafa is too injury prone. So lets take a look at his figures over the same period

08/09 - 14 games missed
09/10 - 3 games missed
10/11 - 9 games missed
11/12 - 0 games missed
12/13 - 5 games missed
13/14 - 5 games missed
14/15 - 6 games missed so far

42 games missed due to injury compared to Hummels 79 games missed due to injury, not too far off double the amount of games missed, and with more serious injuries, with more potential long term implications.

How is one considered too brittle and the other worth spending £40-50m on?

I'm not sure those stats on Rafael are entirely accurate (it is Rafael you're talking about, isn't it?) In 11/12 for example I'm fairly sure he dislocated his shoulder against City in the Community Shield and misses a good bit after it. I would be surprised if he didn't miss additional games due to injury that season too, I only remember him getting a solid run in the team in the last couple of months of that season.

homerjay2005

zerks wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Marcotti/status/535382255582343168
.

Dont think he can sign anything until 6 months before his contract runs out so id say its not true, for now anyway.

kryogen

Blatter wrote: »

I'm not sure those stats on Rafael are entirely accurate (it is Rafael you're talking about, isn't it?) In 11/12 for example I'm fairly sure he dislocated his shoulder against City in the Community Shield and misses a good bit after it. I would be surprised if he didn't miss additional games due to injury that season too, I only remember him getting a solid run in the team in the last couple of months of that season.

Stats taken from here

http://www.transfermarkt.com/rafael/verletzungen/spieler/61892

If you go to
http://www.physioroom.com/news/english_premier_league/clubs/14/manchester_united_injuries.html

it seems to back it up more or less, didnt check everything, just the 11/12 season you mentioned as an example, his name pops up in August and again December for a knock, which you would assume wouldnt have kept him out long if at all.

It is simply games missed because of injury, nothing else.

Edit: He didn't play till 22nd November after his August injury, but I have no idea how long he was actually out injured for and how long it took Fergie to put him back in the team after he was available etc

Certainly an error in the stats though

Cookiemunster

homerjay2005 wrote: »

Dont think he can sign anything until 6 months before his contract runs out so id say its not true, for now anyway.

Honigstein said that Pep vetoed him being signed last summer and is unlikely to have changed his mind. He's calling it BS.

Mitch Connor

Don't know who here followed Rebecca Stephenson, https://twitter.com/1rebs.

She passed away, at 32. No fcuking age.

I didn't know her, at all - just followed her because of her man united links and being a sports journo, but fcuk. Sad to hear.

Mitch Connor

BBC Red Wednesday announcement: https://twitter.com/BBCRedWednesday/status/535439645321216000

Crimson King

Very sad Mitch, puts things into perspective alright.

Blatter

kryogen wrote: »

Stats taken from here

http://www.transfermarkt.com/rafael/verletzungen/spieler/61892

If you go to
http://www.physioroom.com/news/english_premier_league/clubs/14/manchester_united_injuries.html

it seems to back it up more or less, didnt check everything, just the 11/12 season you mentioned as an example, his name pops up in August and again December for a knock, which you would assume wouldnt have kept him out long if at all.

It is simply games missed because of injury, nothing else.

Edit: He didn't play till 22nd November after his August injury, but I have no idea how long he was actually out injured for and how long it took Fergie to put him back in the team after he was available etc

Certainly an error in the stats though

He missed 10 weeks right at the start of that season due to the dislocated shoulder though, he would have missed a fair whack of games with that.

bullvine

Desperate! Too fcuking young.

Rayne Wooney

kryogen wrote: »

He has so far, missed 10 games this season, he missed 27 games last season and 9 the season before, the worry is that its been a lot of knee and ligament injuries the last couple of years

They appear to be getting worse rather then better, 27 games last year and well on course to get close to that number again this year having already missed 10

His ankle ligaments have been a problem going back as far as I can remember tbh and now if his knee is also becoming a problem he will just be another more expensive Owen Hargreaves, whats the point?

There are more centre backs out there that would improve us (which isn't a huge claim I know)

I love Hummels, but think it would be very risky to spend huge money on him, which is what would be required

Just to put up the figures

08/09 - 26 games missed
09/10 - 4 games missed
10/11 - 2 games missed
11/12 - 1 game missed
12/13 - 9 games missed
13/14 - 27 games missed
14/15 - 10 games missed so far.

If your figures are accurate then in his terrible injury filled two year period he still played 63% of available games. That is including the serious injury he got last year which looks like an anomaly when you look at the rest of his injury history

Then you look at the 3 years/seasons previous to the last two years and he played a staggering 92% of games available for Dortmund.

If you are assessing risk, and you say well at his worst so far ( last two years) he has still played almost every 2 out of 3 games. That is one of the best centre backs around, if he comes to us and plays 26 games (injured for the rest) in the league it would be invaluable to us and I would be delighted

I don't think the next option down is worth passing up on a player like Hummels just becuse we may or may not get 5 or 6 extra games on average a season out of them.

Mitch Connor

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

I don't think the next option down is worth passing up on a player like Hummels just becuse we may or may not get 5 or 6 extra games on average a season out of them.

He'd be a United player though. He WOULD get injured, probably daily.

bucketybuck

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

If you are assessing risk, and you say well at his worst so far ( last two years) he has still played almost every 2 out of 3 games. That is one of the best centre backs around, if he comes to us and plays 26 games (injured for the rest) in the league it would be invaluable to us and I would be delighted

I don't think the next option down is worth passing up on a player like Hummels just becuse we may or may not get 5 or 6 extra games on average a season out of them.

Have to disagree. You are going to be talking €50/60m maybe even €70 million to get him (There would be competition from the other big clubs no doubt). I've never subscribed to the idea that the money shouldn't matter to fans, it does matter, and thats far too much to risk if there are doubts about long term fitness.

He is a good defender but he is no Maldini, there will be other options out there.

Your Airbag

Mike Phelan landed the Norwich first team coaches job. Best of luck to him.

PhlegmyMoses

I have never been a huge fan of Hummels. Defo a good player but his fee will be astronomical and I'm not sure he is worth it.

If he flops and the club have no issues with dropping more money to replace him, cool. If he is most of our budget for a summer, not so cool.

PhlegmyMoses

Your Airbag wrote: »

Mike Phelan landed the Norwich first team coaches job. Best of luck to him.

Oh to be a shorts salesman in Norwich right now.

Rayne Wooney

Your Airbag wrote: »

Mike Phelan landed the Norwich first team coaches job. Best of luck to him.

I heard they asked him last week and he said yes

Cantona's Collars

Valencia did a twitter Q&A, you can guess how that went.90% of the questions were along the lines of "why are you so crap at crossing"?

Rayne Wooney

bucketybuck wrote: »

Have to disagree. You are going to be talking €50/60m maybe even €70 million to get him (There would be competition from the other big clubs no doubt). I've never subscribed to the idea that the money shouldn't matter to fans, it does matter, and thats far too much to risk if there are doubts about long term fitness.

He is a good defender but he is no Maldini, there will be other options out there.

We paid almost 40 million for Shaw who may never reach Hummels' level. I don't see how the benefit doesn't outweigh the risk on this one. I doubt the club would sign him if there were serious long term medical issues

Your Airbag

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

I heard they asked him last week and he said yes

Yes, and I heard he was Phelan good about the job ahead.




I'll show myself out.

bullvine

6 months out for Blind ffs

hufpc8w3adnk65

Blind out for 6 months! No luck at sll!! Get strootman in!

PhlegmyMoses

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

We paid almost 40 million for Shaw who may never reach Hummels' level. I don't see how the benefit doesn't outweigh the risk on this one. I doubt the club would sign him if there were serious long term medical issues

I'm not a fan of comparing prices and risk factors of young English talent and older foreign talent. Take these two as an example. Shaw is the best fullback prospect in the country at a time when we were replacing our stalwart left back. As an English kid, he most likely won't want to move elsewhere, as long as we are competing.

At worst he gets injured and doesn't make the grade, middleground, he'll not reach his world class potential but you'll have an able backup/starter for 6 years of his contract. At best, you have a position sorted for 15 years with a great player.

Hummels will be the guts of 27 if we sign him next summer. At worst, he gets injured badly or flops. Middleground, he'll be a decent addition to the team but will take time to adapt and will continue to suffer the injuries of the last 3 years, at best we get 4 great years out of him before he gets slower or fancies a move home.

The risks are very different for the two and for me, the Shaw spend makes far more sense. Also, no way we get Hummels for €40m. Far more likely to be £40/45m imo.

Crimson King

I dread his press conferences now, every week there seems to be a new setback.

At least Di Maria and and De Gea are fit.