Newcastle United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2022/2023

event

event wrote: »

Im paying other pirates but am in no doubt that they get it from the Saudis, I'm not that naive

any pirate can pirate a BeIn stream - very much doubt that any of your money is going to the Saudis

trying to exonerate being ok with chopping up journalists, dissolving them in acid and causing the deaths of 100,000 in Yemen through war and famine by linking it to a pirate internet stream is a truely bizarre argument as said anyway.

should we all stop driving cars because they use petrol and diesel, which amongst many other countries, Saudi Arabia produces?

Scoundrel

glasso wrote: »

should we all stop driving cars because they use petrol and diesel, which amongst many other countries, Saudi Arabia produces?

Indeed should we all stop following football clubs because of Saudi involvement?

Scoundrel

Scoundrel wrote: »

Indeed should we all stop following football clubs because of Saudi involvement?

not involvement, direct sovereign state ownership through the sovereign wealth fund and primarily bought for the reason of trying to "sportswash" the Saudi's murderous global image.

bit different than running a car.

if you're ok with the blood money fine for you I suppose but many of your fellow NUFC fans won't like it or maybe stop supporting even and the club won't be popular with a lot of other people in general as a result.

mind you the Saudis have such a sh1t image would they even dare put Aramco directly on the shirt??

Probably will have to tho to justify the "sponsorship" money payments like the others did.

eagle eye

You know for most fans it's just about the performance on the field. It's about being able to compete. They don't care about world politics. They work hard all week and enjoy their football at the weekend.
It's only when things aren't going well that they worry about the owner.
I'm sure if Newcastle are in a big FA Cup match or fighting for a Europa league or Champions league spot that their fans will be shouting for their team and won't care a jot who owns the club.

If you don't understand this then you are not really a football fan.

eagle eye

eagle eye wrote: »

You know for most fans it's just about the performance on the field. It's about being able to compete. They don't care about world politics. They work hard all week and enjoy their football at the weekend.
It's only when things aren't going well that they worry about the owner.
I'm sure if Newcastle are in a big FA Cup match or fighting for a Europa league or Champions league spot that their fans will be shouting for their team and won't care a jot who owns the club.

If you don't understand this then you are not really a football fan.

When the club is being directly used as a pawn in world politics then it's relevant.

not every atrocity can be excused in the name of being "a fan"

macraignil

glasso wrote: »

not involvement, direct sovereign state ownership through the sovereign wealth fund and primarily bought for the reason of trying to "sportswash" the Saudi's murderous global image.

bit different than running a car.

if you're ok with the blood money fine for you I suppose but many of your fellow NUFC fans won't like it or maybe stop supporting even and the club won't be popular with a lot of other people in general as a result.

mind you the Saudis have such a sh1t image would they even dare put Aramco directly on the shirt??

Probably will have to tho to justify the "sponsorship" money payments like the others did.

Your "blood money" statement is just inflammatory. I support Newcastle's football team. This does not mean I support the owners of the club. The money being invested is likely to have been earned from selling oil and not anything to do with any local military conflict or killing a journalist. The USA sell the Saudi's billions of euros worth of weapons but if they buy shares in a football club you expect the supporters to be outraged? Could you be better off spending your time protesting at the friendly diplomatic relations maintained by a number of western countries including Ireland with Saudi Arabia rather than trying to imply football supporters should for some reason be culpable for some one buying shares in the club they support? Mike Ashley is well known for treating his staff poorly but it was the way he treated the football club that caused protest. I can't see there being major protests against anyone taking control of the club away from Mike Ashley so I'm afraid your repeated call for action from club supporters on this supporters thread is likely to be a waste of time.

Scoundrel

glasso wrote: »

not involvement, direct sovereign state ownership through the sovereign wealth fund and primarily bought for the reason of trying to "sportswash" the Saudi's murderous global image.

bit different than running a car.

if you're ok with the blood money fine for you I suppose but many of your fellow NUFC fans won't like it or maybe stop supporting even and the club won't be popular with a lot of other people in general as a result.

mind you the Saudis have such a sh1t image would they even dare put Aramco directly on the shirt??

Probably will have to tho to justify the "sponsorship" money payments like the others did.

Oh dear would a paragon of virtue such as yourself not buy an electric car to avoid such funding no?

eagle eye

glasso wrote:

When the club is being directly used as a pawn in world politics then it's relevant.
not every atrocity can be excused in the name of being "a fan"

It's a topic if you are interested in it. Most people don't give a continental what's happening in plac s they have no intention of ever visiting.

And as I said you'd have to be a football fan of a club to understand which you clearly are not.

eagle eye

eagle eye wrote: »

It's a topic if you are interested in it. Most people don't give a continental what's happening in plac s they have no intention of ever visiting.

And as I said you'd have to be a football fan of a club to understand which you clearly are not.

MBS -> directly respsonsible for this?

not important, relevant or couldn't give a continental for real fans tho 'cos they wouldn't be going there on holidays. staggering.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6WD9O8Xc9Y

eagle eye

I won't be looking at that video, I've enough to worry about.
I'm not a Newcastle fan either but delighted to see them get new owners and hope it brings success to St James Park.

eagle eye

eagle eye wrote: »

I won't be looking at that video, I've enough to worry about.
I'm not a Newcastle fan either but delighted to see them get new owners and hope it brings success to St James Park.

you don't have to look at the video.

you can see the poor fooking skeleton child in the overview picture.

Saudi Arabia, under Mister Bone Saw (prospective direct new owner and Saudi Minister for Defence as well as being crown prince) directly and deliberately targeted food supplies and food production facilities through bombing to create that.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/12/bombed-into-famine-how-saudi-air-campaign-targets-yemens-food-supplies

~Rebel~

eagle eye wrote: »

You know for most fans it's just about the performance on the field. It's about being able to compete. They don't care about world politics. They work hard all week and enjoy their football at the weekend.
It's only when things aren't going well that they worry about the owner.
I'm sure if Newcastle are in a big FA Cup match or fighting for a Europa league or Champions league spot that their fans will be shouting for their team and won't care a jot who owns the club.

If you don't understand this then you are not really a football fan.

Bringing out the big guns here. "Have a different opinion? well **** you, it doesn't count, 'cause you're not a football fan"

Obviously that sort of statement is total nonsense. It's just as easy to argue the exact opposite, that someone only interested in episodic on-field performances without caring about the greater context isn't a 'real' football fan. One could argue that in that instance it just sits alongside Breaking Bad or Coronation Street as another thing to watch and take your mind off real life. One could argue that being a 'real football fan' is just as much about the club at large, the bigger context of what it is, what it does, and how it does it.

But that's just as dickish a statement, because there's no such thing as what defines a 'real football fan', beyond liking football.

Everyone has their lines of morality, and those lines are fluid, changing over time as your personal experience of the world evolves. Some people are vegetarian or vegan because they simply cannot condone the treatment of bred-to-consume animals. Some will buy chicken, but only from organic farmers rather than inhumane factory-farming brands like Tyson. Some people will buy technology made in poor working conditions, but only go for the product RED line as a slight mitigation against it. Some buy any coffee they like, others only fairtrade brands. Some people buy all that ****. People are different. Some people will feel ok about pouring a huge emotional investment - and even a partial source of their own personal identity - into a club owned by people who are in the midst of committing genocide amongst other fairly harrowing acts.

We all have our lines somewhere. Newcastle fans have been through an incredibly shiity decade+, and I completely understand any Newcastle fan for being happy and relieved that things might change, but this is a pretty big line. Some people won't care (mostly younger people - thats just life, empathy grows with age and experience), some people will be reluctantly happy with reservations, and some will simply choose to walk away from the Omelas of St James Park.

eagle eye

eagle eye wrote: »

You know for most fans it's just about the performance on the field. It's about being able to compete. They don't care about world politics...
...
...
If you don't understand this then you are not really a football fan.

Blazer wrote: »

I don't think I could continue supporting Newcastle if Salman was in any way involved in it. Would be an utter betrayal of everything I feel about the Saudi government and how a few thousand of the so called royal family basically keep their people in utter poverty while splashing out billions on yachts, cars, hookers, drugs etc etc.
And of course the whole terrorism/ murdering part.

Raoul wrote: »

Newcastle fan here, granted I don't go to games but I have been a Newcastle fan for 25 years. I will not be actively supporting them any more. . It's just absolutely cr*p and heartbreaking. I feel terribly sorry for Newcastle fans that actually have morals and are season ticket holders for years and years.

Well Eagle Eye has decreed that, because you both evidently care about the role of the potential owners in torture and genocide, you were not really football fans at all.

I wouldn't be annoyed, I think it's one of those ones that's so patently ridiculous that you have to laugh it off.

It's also amusing that, despite the obvious snobbery in the "football fans don't care about politics" stereotype, a few posters liked it!

Icaras

So Glasso and Conor74 what do you want Newcastle fans to do (I might have missed that bit)?
1. Stop supporting the club?
2. Support but not attend games or buy merchandise?
3. Protest the sale?
4. Something else...

From Rebels coments earlier " Personally, it would make it very hard to stay supporting my club under those circumstances, and would make me ****in' livid that they were taking advantage of my club for their own agenda." Im guessing its somewhere between 1 and 2.

Blazer

It’s upto each person to decide what to do.

I honestly wouldn’t blame Newcastle people from the city for supporting their club.
Myself I will be glad for the people if they get a trophy but personally I won’t be celebrating the fact.
Obviously I’ll still following the thread in here.
But it’s not upto us to dictate what each person on here should do otherwise we’re no better.
All you can do is show people and let them make up their own mind.

~Rebel~

Icaras wrote: »

So Glasso and Conor74 what do you want Newcastle fans to do (I might have missed that bit)?
1. Stop supporting the club?
2. Support but not attend games or buy merchandise?
3. Protest the sale?
4. Something else...

From Rebels coments earlier " Personally, it would make it very hard to stay supporting my club under those circumstances, and would make me ****in' livid that they were taking advantage of my club for their own agenda." Im guessing its somewhere between 1 and 2.

I'm not sure this is an entirely fair/answerable question... all any of us can really answer is what would we do ourselves, rather than try to decree what someone else should do. I don't think there is a should. It's none of these fans fault it's happening after all, it's not a situation of their making. So everyone is coming at this situation from their own perspective, which is built from their own life experiences.

As intimated above, I'd find it hard to stay supporting my own club under the circumstances - not just out of a sense of protest, would be at least as much because I just know that that association would spoil my interest and enjoyment of it. (was brickin' it when the Saudi's were interested in a stake in Liverpool back in 2017!)

Icaras

Icaras wrote: »

So Glasso and Conor74 what do you want Newcastle fans to do (I might have missed that bit)?
1. Stop supporting the club?
2. Support but not attend games or buy merchandise?
3. Protest the sale?
4. Something else...

From Rebels coments earlier " Personally, it would make it very hard to stay supporting my club under those circumstances, and would make me ****in' livid that they were taking advantage of my club for their own agenda." Im guessing its somewhere between 1 and 2.

TBH there's not much they can do, it is what it is, and I wouldn't prescribe that fans should stop supporting their club. Was more pointing out the obvious flaw in the "Ashley was a bad man, genocidal despots are not so bad" line taken by some.

For my part, Leeds were linked with the PSG owners, I'd rather they stayed in the Championship with the current owner operating on a shoestring.

Bridge93

I’ll still watch out for results and hope they do well. But I do feel this would stop me buying tickets, jerseys and so on. Perhaps it’s easier to say that as I don’t live in the city. I’m not as attached as others will be. But it does take the good away from it. You just can’t ignore who are what these guys are.
Sportswashing is horrible. And as exciting as it is seeing big names arrive, given the wealth these guys have and the plans I’m sure they have, there isn’t the same buzz in my mind as if success came more organically as hard as that is. Just throwing money at the team and problems just doesn’t seem like what sport should be about
One of the reasons I enjoy watching leinster rugby so much is the sense it’s your team. Obviously it’s not possible to replicate the indigenous nature of rugby in football and have the same success but at the same time, the complete opposite just doesn’t thrill me in the same way. A load of extremely well paid mercenaries, all of whom wouldn’t be there but for the cash

Will be interesting to see do any players take any sort of moral stand against it

Icaras

Icaras wrote: »

So Glasso and Conor74 what do you want Newcastle fans to do (I might have missed that bit)?
1. Stop supporting the club?
2. Support but not attend games or buy merchandise?
3. Protest the sale?
4. Something else...

From Rebels coments earlier " Personally, it would make it very hard to stay supporting my club under those circumstances, and would make me ****in' livid that they were taking advantage of my club for their own agenda." Im guessing its somewhere between 1 and 2.

I make the assumption that everyone can make up their own mind but at least be grown up and informed about it (and not this "fake moral outrage", "real football fan", "I don't care I just want the money" stuff)

and understand the situation as a bigger picture and for what it is (Newcastle being used by the Saudis as a sports-wash exercise)

and who is in question here and what they (MBS would be the effective owner and he is the Saudi Defence Minister who made those decisions causing death,starvation and disease in Yemen) have been directly responsible for

(and that the Qatarai's and Abu Dhabi crowd aren't in the same ballpark in terms of atrocities)

I'd personally absolutely hate that evil inbred (Saudi Royal Family are very inbred and probably has something to do with the guy's mental state) dictator to be directly connected to anything I had an interest in.

Icaras

Thanks for the quick replys Lads. I suppose, as for most things related to Newcastle Utd. it wont be boring!

event

Football sold its soul long ago. The misery that betting companies alone inflicts on families up and down England every day is shocking. Yet no one is saying they will no longer support their own clubs over that. Yeah, there are lines of course. Saudis are actually murdering people, I know that. I just think people are always very quick to say "well if this was my club I'd stop". Your club has done enough already for you to stop supporting them, you just choose not to or ignore it.

event

event wrote: »

Football sold its soul long ago. The misery that betting companies alone inflicts on families up and down England every day is shocking. Yet no one is saying they will no longer support their own clubs over that. Yeah, there are lines of course. Saudis are actually murdering people, I know that. I just think people are always very quick to say "well if this was my club I'd stop". Your club has done enough already for you to stop supporting them, you just choose not to or ignore it.

no, I think that the Saudis at a sovereign-state level are top-of-the-tree in terms of absolute-cnut potential owners and as such unprecedented.

event

event wrote: »

Football sold its soul long ago. The misery that betting companies alone inflicts on families up and down England every day is shocking. Yet no one is saying they will no longer support their own clubs over that. Yeah, there are lines of course. Saudis are actually murdering people, I know that. I just think people are always very quick to say "well if this was my club I'd stop". Your club has done enough already for you to stop supporting them, you just choose not to or ignore it.

The association between football and vices, drinking, gambling and even (in the days of Dixie Dean anyway) smoking were established long before I, and I suspect most here, started following it - one thinks of ads with Bobby Moore drinking a pint etc.

They are really not comparable with bombing civilians in Yemen and pushing millions into starvation. Or else we are getting into the "both Bobby Moore and the Saudi regime did bad things so it's all the same" territory.

Richard Hillman

You can barely find worse than the Saudi regime in terms of ethics. They are on a Par with North Korea and the Taliban. They were directly funding ISIS FFS :pac:

What does it actually take to fail a fit and proper person's test? Stalin? Skeletor? Krang from the Turtles?

Scoundrel

Richard Hillman wrote: »

You can barely find worse than the Saudi regime in terms of ethics. They are on a Par with North Korea and the Taliban. They were directly funding ISIS FFS :pac:

What does it actually take to fail a fit and proper person's test? Stalin? Skeletor? Krang from the Turtles?

Qatar and the UAE were and are directly funding Al Qaeda ISIS etc in Syria and they passed it most of you must have missed that. The Taliban actually have an office in Qatar funded by the Qatari government its where the USA sent many of those released from GITMO.

Scoundrel

Scoundrel wrote: »

Qatar and the UAE were and are directly funding Al Qaeda ISIS etc in Syria and they passed it most of you must have missed that. The Taliban actually have an office in Qatar funded by the Qatari government its where the USA sent many of those released from GITMO.

The Saudis are next level bastards

trying to make Abu Dhabi and Qatar seem anywhere near in the hope that this will make the Saudi takeover
look less bad is not the way forward

They are not

eagle eye

Yeah you have high and mighty fans of other clubs coming into the Newcastle thread talking about world politics but turn a blind eye to anything wrong their own clubs do like hacking another clubs scouting database, their coach advertising for a gambling firm and I'm sure there's lots of other stuff.
They want you to care about stuff in the middle East but not worry about laws being broken or bad examples being given to kids in your own country.

~Rebel~

eagle eye wrote: »

Yeah you have high and mighty fans of other clubs coming into the Newcastle thread talking about world politics but turn a blind eye to anything wrong their own clubs do like hacking another clubs scouting database, their coach advertising for a gambling firm and I'm sure there's lots of other stuff.
They want you to care about stuff in the middle East but not worry about laws being broken or bad examples being given to kids in your own country.

Honestly reads like you’ve not actually read the posts on here. The only person coming across high and mighty is yourself.

Scoundrel

glasso wrote: »

The Saudis are next level bastards

trying to make Abu Dhabi and Qatar seem anywhere near in the hope that this will make the Saudi takeover
look less bad is not the way forward

They are not

They most certainly are they're smaller and less powerful but they are right up there with SA when it comes to human rights abuses etc. The Saudis are going to invest in football one way or another if the PL don't allow this deal the Saudis will simply take their money to Spain Italy etc.

Scoundrel

Scoundrel wrote: »

They most certainly are they're smaller and less powerful but they are right up there with SA when it comes to human rights abuses etc. The Saudis are going to invest in football one way or another if the PL don't allow this deal the Saudis will simply take their money to Spain Italy etc.

but they are not.

just you saying that doesn't make it that they are.

they are not great but not at the Saudis level of blatant murder, deliberately causing famine, disease and starvation for millions through bombing, shooting fishermen from helicopter gunships and food supply blockages etc

Scoundrel

glasso wrote: »

but they are not.

just you saying that doesn't make it that they are.

they are not great but not at the Saudis level of blatant murder, deliberately causing famine, disease and starvation for millions through bombing, shooting fishermen from helicopter gunships and food supply blockages etc

Yes they are they are part of the same coalition bombing Yemen hundreds of UAE soldiers have been killed in the Yemen war they've bombed markets towns villages etc along with the Saudis the Qataris were involved too until they fell out with Saudi its a regional conflict with all the major players locally involved. The UAE owns Man City it can't be OK for Man City to be owned by one regional power and not OK for Newcastle to be owned by another.

eagle eye

~Rebel~ wrote:

Honestly reads like you’ve not actually read the posts on here. The only person coming across high and mighty is yourself.

Look, don't go all sanctimonious now. Do you think it's right to have Klopp advertising for a gambling firm in the middle of the day during a premier League match. How is it right to have that on when kids are watching TV?
Do you feel good about supporting a club that allows it's manager to do things like that?

Scoundrel

Scoundrel wrote: »

Yes they are they are part of the same coalition bombing Yemen hundreds of UAE soldiers have been killed in the Yemen war they've bombed markets towns villages etc along with the Saudis the Qataris were involved too until they fell out with Saudi its a regional conflict with all the major players locally involved. The UAE owns Man City it can't be OK for Man City to be owned by one regional power and not OK for Newcastle to be owned by another.

the UAE pulled the majority of any forces out last year
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/11/world/middleeast/yemen-emirates-saudi-war.html

the Saudis are and have been the out-and-out leaders in this from the start and make the decisions, put in the majority of the resources in terms of money and military weapons with MBS making the worst decisions as Saudi Defence Minister, including the food blockade

You obviously don't have a problem with MBS coming in, fine.

Many others will do.

event

glasso wrote: »

no, I think that the Saudis at a sovereign-state level are top-of-the-tree in terms of absolute-cnut potential owners and as such unprecedented.

Agreed.

But you dont think that what betting companies do, the destruction they cause on a daily basis (while obviously not on a par with SA) is bad enough.

Scoundrel

glasso wrote: »

the UAE pulled the majority of any forces out last year
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/11/world/middleeast/yemen-emirates-saudi-war.html

the Saudis are and have been the out-and-out leaders in this from the start and make the decisions, put in the majority of the resources in terms of money and military weapons with MBS making the worst decisions as Saudi Defence Minister, including the food blockade

You obviously don't have a problem with MBS coming in, fine.

Many others will do.

Look i'd prefer if it wasn't the Saudis coming in but they are our only chance of getting rid of Ashley and being competitive again such is the concrete ceiling imposed by the big 4/6 in PL.

I still believe that most of the outrage is football based and not genuine i.e they don't want Newcastle at the top table no such outrage about Man City as far as I remember.

Scoundrel

Scoundrel wrote: »

Look i'd prefer if it wasn't the Saudis coming in but they are our only chance of getting rid of Ashley and being competitive again such is the concrete ceiling imposed by the big 4/6 in PL.

I still believe that most of the outrage is football based and not genuine i.e they don't want Newcastle at the top table no such outrage about Man City as far as I remember.

I do have sympathy for the situation, given the long and unsatisfying history with Ashley and wish that this situation could have been better in terms of an owner.

personally I just truely believe that MBS is evil incarnate.

event

event wrote: »

Agreed.

But you dont think that what betting companies do, the destruction they cause on a daily basis (while obviously not on a par with SA) is bad enough.

I would agree with you about betting companies - I'm not a fan and do think that better regulation and controls need to be in place other than the 1/2 arsed ones that are there at the moment, especially in relation to people who have compulsive problems.

I'd prefer if both the betting companies and MBS didn't exist but they do and both are bad, just in different ways.

~Rebel~

eagle eye wrote: »

Look, don't go all sanctimonious now.

Ha, in fairness, you've long since smashed the glass ceiling on the sanctimony front with your "anyone who disagrees with me just isn't really a football fan" argument. I'd say that'll take some serious beating.

Do you think it's right to have Klopp advertising for a gambling firm in the middle of the day during a premier League match. How is it right to have that on when kids are watching TV?
Do you feel good about supporting a club that allows it's manager to do things like that?

And this is why I suggested that perhaps you hadn't been reading the thread. Answered this argument literally just in the last few pages.

Even still though, it really is a silly argument. "John murdered his wife. Steven borrowed a handsaw from his neighbour and never gave it back. These things are the same."

As I said at length previously, there are levels, and lines, and everyone will draw those lines based on their own personal experience. There are lots of things I don't like but tolerate. There are other things that I don't like, and personally couldn't tolerate.

eagle eye

~Rebel~ wrote:

As I said at length previously, there are levels, and lines, and everyone will draw those lines based on their own personal experience. There are lots of things I don't like but tolerate. There are other things that I don't like, and personally couldn't tolerate.

But this isn't something minor. These kids are being introduced to gambling by one of their heroes. Some of them will want to gamble because Klopp says it's great and some will end up with a serious gambling problem that might ruin not only their lives but that of their parents, wife and kids.
But that's ok with you because you won't know about it.

~Rebel~

eagle eye wrote: »

But this isn't something minor. These kids are being introduced to gambling by one of their heroes. Some of them will want to gamble because Klopp says it's great and some will end up with a serious gambling problem that might ruin not only their lives but that of their parents, wife and kids.
But that's ok with you because you won't know about it.

It's still a completely false equivalency, and it's also dragging the argument into trying to find personal moral lines, which only serves as a distraction from the actual discussion.

Since you're so adamant on getting my personal opinion on gambling for some reason though, I do have a major problem with gambling and the damage it causes. One of my best friends lost absolutely everything from it. I've turned down work (I work in commercial production) that was for betting companies. I don't like that Liverpool (and every premier league club) has a betting partner. I think that, like Cigarettes, they should be banned from sports advertising and sponsorship. As much as I dislike it, I'm also a realist and can grudgingly tolerate their deal. If, however, the club were to be bought over by a gambling firm, I think my intolerance would probably rise enough that my affinity to the team and club would seriously wane, and likely drop off altogether. (Klopp agreeing to do those ads does lower my opinion of him incidentally).

As I said, lines, and levels. Everyone has their breaking point that will finally pull them away from something they love. Even like any relationship, you can sometimes put up with a lot from a partner, but there's a line after which you just have to leave. This isn't about moral grandstanding or something, it's more about emotional connection, and the boundaries thereof.

eagle eye

~Rebel~ wrote:

It's still a completely false equivalency, and it's also dragging the argument into trying to find personal moral lines, which only serves as a distraction from the actual discussion.

I'm pointing out that Klopp advertising gambling in the middle of the day in front of kids has far reaching consequences up to and including murder and suicide.
I'm telling you about something I'm aware of. Do you care? Does it make you feel like you shouldn't support Liverpool?
If not then you shouldn't be telling anybody else what should or shouldn't matter to them as far as their football club is concerned.

~Rebel~

eagle eye wrote: »

I'm pointing out that Klopp advertising gambling in the middle of the day in front of kids has far reaching consequences up to and including murder and suicide.
I'm telling you about something I'm aware of. Do you care? Does it make you feel like you shouldn't support Liverpool?
If not then you shouldn't be telling anybody else what should or shouldn't matter to them as far as their football club is concerned.

Dude, seriously would ya not ever actually go back and actually read my posts? Becuase I haven't told anybody what should or shouldn't matter to them. I've tried to engage in conversation on how they feel while also recognising (several times) that everyone has their own lines and limits created by their own personal experience. I don't expect anyone to act in a certain way, but it's a conversation that should be had.

Also why do you ask a question that i literally tried to answer in the previous post, that you just chose not to include in your quote? Particularly since what I gave you - an honest answer on my position - what I expect from others.

I personally answered you yesterday with this;

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Everyone has their lines of morality, and those lines are fluid, changing over time as your personal experience of the world evolves. Some people are vegetarian or vegan because they simply cannot condone the treatment of bred-to-consume animals. Some will buy chicken, but only from organic farmers rather than inhumane factory-farming brands like Tyson. Some people will buy technology made in poor working conditions, but only go for the product RED line as a slight mitigation against it. Some buy any coffee they like, others only fairtrade brands. Some people buy all that ****. People are different. Some people will feel ok about pouring a huge emotional investment - and even a partial source of their own personal identity - into a club owned by people who are in the midst of committing genocide amongst other fairly harrowing acts.

We all have our lines somewhere. Newcastle fans have been through an incredibly shiity decade+, and I completely understand any Newcastle fan for being happy and relieved that things might change, but this is a pretty big line. Some people won't care (mostly younger people - thats just life, empathy grows with age and experience), some people will be reluctantly happy with reservations, and some will simply choose to walk away from the Omelas of St James Park.

Honestly it just feels like you want a "let he without sin cast the first stone", which is sort of pointless. Life isn't as simple or straightforward as that. it's nuanced, and deserves discussion. Where you felt that I needed to give my personal position on gambling, i feel there's room for people to give their positions on this buyout and how it makes them feel. And if that position is "I dont like it, but i will still support", that's ok. I'd also like to point out that most of the regular newcastle supporters have done this, and engaged in good faith discussion. It's you that seems to have a problem with it.

ffs, maybe actually read his posts instead of jumping on the first repetitive thought that jumps into your head.

eagle eye

~Rebel~ wrote:

I personally answered you yesterday with this;

You didn't answer the question I asked you.

~Rebel~

eagle eye wrote: »

You didn't answer the question I asked you.

Im confused... which was what?! You asked me about my position on Liverpool and gambling, which I answered at length... did I miss something?

eagle eye

~Rebel~ wrote:

Im confused... which was what?! You asked me about my position on Liverpool and gambling, which I answered at length... did I miss something?

No mention anywhere about your thoughts on the affect of Klopp's advertising on kids.

~Rebel~

eagle eye wrote: »

No mention anywhere about your thoughts on the affect of Klopp's advertising on kids.

Ok... I don't know what the affect is. It's not good, and I think less of him for it. I have a major problem with any sports person advertising gambling. I also have a major problem with fast food being advertised in connection with sporting events. As I said though I'm a realist, and while I don't like these things, I have a grudging tolerance of them. As I've said many times, there are lines.

For me, there is difference between someone playing a part in an advertising campaign for something destructive (albeit entirely legal, whether thats rightly or wrongly), and someone literally actually personally killing lots of people. In one instance, you are playing a small part in a larger problem. In the other, you are personally the larger problem.

But I don't really see the point in this discussion - as I've already said several times, I don't expect Newcastle fans to stop supporting their team. I just expect the discussion. Which we were actually having quite nicely yesterday before you waded in and decided that people were being far more absolutist than they actually were. Morality, and peoples personal emotional connection with morality, is entirely grey and nebulous, and to not understand that is to not understand humanity, and in this case, the conversation that was taking place.

marklazarcovic

Hopefully the toon fans don't become like the city fans if it happens,that is all. Hon the toon.

I know there's been some very poor attempt to muddy the waters by throwing gambling advertising into the mix, as if it's somehow comparable to genocide.

If anything if anyone actually believes that it surely only highlights Eagle Eye's claim that football fans are just not into world politics. So it's amusing to see him lead the charge of equivalising the issues.

What's even more laughable is that AFAIK NUFC shirts advertise Fun88, the gambling company. So they are already advocating betting, the takeover will see the club add genocide and Human Rights abuses to the rap sheet of issues.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

I know there's been some very poor attempt to muddy the waters by throwing gambling advertising into the mix, as if it's somehow comparable to genocide.

If anything if anyone actually believes that it surely only highlights Eagle Eye's claim that football fans are just not into world politics. So it's amusing to see him lead the charge of equivalising the issues.

What's even more laughable is that AFAIK NUFC shirts advertise Fun88, the gambling company. So they are already advocating betting, the takeover will see the club add genocide and Human Rights abuses to the rap sheet of issues.

true, not sure of how much a step up from Wonga a sports betting and online casino is.