Renting and water charges

pc7

This is a reply a landlord on another site got yesterday from IW, hence the worry among LL if tenants don't register. Its a crazy system, I was able to set my tenants up for gas and electricity without issue.


Thank you for your email regarding your rented property.
The tenant needs to apply for the allowances themselves, the landlord can not do so on their behalf.
Once the tenant registers the account in their name they are liable for the payments and any unpaid bills they will be liable for.
You will receive notification during the month of October to inform you whether or not they have registered.
You the landlord will only be liable if they fail to register and fail to pay the bill.

Grandpa Hassan

pc7 wrote: »

This is a reply a landlord on another site got yesterday from IW, hence the worry among LL if tenants don't register. Its a crazy system, I was able to set my tenants up for gas and electricity without issue.


Thank you for your email regarding your rented property.
The tenant needs to apply for the allowances themselves, the landlord can not do so on their behalf.
Once the tenant registers the account in their name they are liable for the payments and any unpaid bills they will be liable for.
You will receive notification during the month of October to inform you whether or not they have registered.
You the landlord will only be liable if they fail to register and fail to pay the bill.

I have always suspected this to be the case. Hence will be ensuring that the tenants register....maybe make provision of proof of registration for the charge a condition of any lease.

There is a despoit of course, but that is for damage to the property and contents.....not to meet unpaid bills

IW basically getting landlords to do their job for them

pc7

Well I've emailed IW myself trying to get clarification about this, I understand a tenants right to protest against water charges, but not at my expense. I may take the risk and root out their PRTB application and just register them if they don't register themselves. So far contact on this being ignored, will buzz them the weekend.

viper006

Just looking to make sure myself and GF have the right understanding of how this process works.

LL received the appplication forms for the house and he droppped it over the last day. We simply fill it out with our details and sent it off to IW.When we are moving out down the line, we just inform IW and the LL name goes back on the acccout?

This would be the process unless we have picked it up wrong?

sunshine and showers

viper006 wrote: »

Just looking to make sure myself and GF have the right understanding of how this process works.

LL received the appplication forms for the house and he droppped it over the last day. We simply fill it out with our details and sent it off to IW.When we are moving out down the line, we just inform IW and the LL name goes back on the acccout?

This would be the process unless we have picked it up wrong?

That is the process. Same as an ESB ot Bord Gais account, I believe.

Graham

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

I have always suspected this to be the case. Hence will be ensuring that the tenants register....maybe make provision of the proof of registration for the charge a condition of any lease.

Their is a despoit of course, but that is for damage to the property and contents.....not to meet unpaid bills

According to citizens information:

Deposits
As a landlord, you may withhold a deposit (or part of a deposit) only if:

• The tenant has not given you proper notice when leaving
• You have been left with outstanding bills (for electricity, gas etc.) or rent
• The tenant has caused damage beyond normal wear and tear

Source: http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/landlords_rights_and_obligations.html


I wonder what the legalities would be of sending something like this to existing tenants:

Dear Tenant,

as you are no doubt aware water charges have now been introduced for every household in the country, the payment of which is the responsibility of the occupier.

As the occupier of *address* it is your responsibility to ensure you are fully registered with Irish Water, it is also your responsibility to ensure payment of water bills as they arise.

To remain within the terms of your lease/tenancy and to ensure the full and prompt return of your deposit at the end of the tenancy, I would be grateful if you would confirm that you have registered with Irish Water and that you will pay water bills as they fall due.

Regards

Landlord


The above is a question about the points of law, not a suggestion.

pc7

Thanks Graham will try that if no luck the weekend.

Jonathan222

sunshine and showers wrote: »

That is the process. Same as an ESB ot Bord Gais account, I believe.

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

I have always suspected this to be the case. Hence will be ensuring that the tenants register....maybe make provision of proof of registration for the charge a condition of any lease.

There is a despoit of course, but that is for damage to the property and contents.....not to meet unpaid bills

IW basically getting landlords to do their job for them

For what it is worth, I was just onto IW (submitting form on behalf of tenant as their English is not the best) and IW stated that it has not been 'confirmed' yet as to who would be liable if the tenant did a runner.

Grandpa Hassan

Graham wrote: »

According to citizens information:

Deposits
As a landlord, you may withhold a deposit (or part of a deposit) only if:

• The tenant has not given you proper notice when leaving
• You have been left with outstanding bills (for electricity, gas etc.) or rent
• The tenant has caused damage beyond normal wear and tear

Source: http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/landlords_rights_and_obligations.html

I didn't mean to imply that it can't be used to cover unpaid bills....I meant that to do so means there is nothing left to cover damage. So it is in the LLs interest to ensure that the water charge is paid, or he/she may well be left out of pocket.

Grandpa Hassan

Jonathan222 wrote: »

For what it is worth, I was just onto IW (submitting form on behalf of tenant as their English is not the best) and IW stated that it has not been 'confirmed' yet as to who would be liable if the tenant did a runner.

And yet some IW reps are emailing landlords saying that they are ultimately responsible.

Just shows what an absolute shambles this whole thing is

Paulownia

Unless IW are being given even more draconian powers they can't make landlords responsible for unpaid water charges no more than the ESB can pursue landlords unless the bill is in their name. No landlord should agree to have the supply of any utilities in their own name for that reason. Laws are more skewed towards tenants anyway and countless tenants do a runner without paying rent and never pay up. We had one who left owing two grand and taking some of the furniture after a load of messing and it subsequently transpired he had been getting his rent allowance from the council and cashing the cheques and spending the money.

Jonathan222

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

And yet some IW reps are emailing landlords saying that they are ultimately responsible.

Just shows what an absolute shambles this whole thing is

It baffles me how they can think that someone else (Landlord in this case) is liable for someone else, who IW have a contract with. Where would it end if they actually ruled in favour of a tenant in this case.

viper006

sunshine and showers wrote: »

That is the process. Same as an ESB ot Bord Gais account, I believe.

Cheers for that

Snoopy1

I havnt a clue who my landlord is.
I recieved no pack so ended up ringing irish Water. The lady said landlord would have it, and they were not sending out replacement ones.
As i hadnt heard from landlord, i just set it up on the phone with them.

pc7

Received the following reply from IW

The tenant needs to apply for the allowances themselves, the landlord can not do so on their behalf.
Once the tenant registers the account in their name they are liable for the payments and any unpaid bills.
You will receive notification during the month of October to inform you whether or not they have registered, this will also include information on how to proceed in the event they refuse to register.
If you have any further queries you can visit our Questions and Answers section here, alternatively you can reach us by using the contact details below.

Grandpa Hassan

pc7 wrote: »

Received the following reply from IW

The tenant needs to apply for the allowances themselves, the landlord can not do so on their behalf.
Once the tenant registers the account in their name they are liable for the payments and any unpaid bills.
You will receive notification during the month of October to inform you whether or not they have registered, this will also include information on how to proceed in the event they refuse to register.
If you have any further queries you can visit our Questions and Answers section here, alternatively you can reach us by using the contact details below.

And I bet this ends up with the LL paying if all attempts to get the tenants to register and pay are exhausted. I don't trust the government one bit to not ultimately go to owners, or attach the charge to the property in some way. I'm going to make registering for the water charge a condition of any lease.

Snoopy1

As a Tennant I don't expect my landlord to pay for my electric why should water be any different.
It's not hard to ring up irish water like I did and set it up for yourself.
Can't understand why people are moaning do much or maybe I'm just a responsible tennant

pc7

Snoopy1 wrote: »

I'm just a responsible tennant

That's it exactly, but some tenants I feel want to protest against water charges (which is their right), but not if the cost will impact me. If I've any messing with mine and nothing satisfactory with IW, I will be looking to the PRTB for support in removing the tenants from the house (I have it in the lease regarding water/waste charges should they arise for the last few years).

Snoopy1

I wish the agency I'm with are as responsible as me. Been waiting 2 years for an extractor fan for the bathroom, and waited 3 weeks for them to stop water coming into bedroom on bed

pc7

Snoopy1 wrote: »

I wish the agency I'm with are as responsible as me. Been waiting 2 years for an extractor fan for the bathroom, and waited 3 weeks for them to stop water coming into bedroom on bed

Send it in writing that if they do not resolve the issue within X days you will start deducting rent, they'll move pretty quick then I reckon. If you have kept a record of the times you've requested this (hopefully in writing) that should help your case, you shouldn't have to put up with stuff like this. I always try make my tenants feel like it is their home so they tend to want to look after it, a happy tenant is a good tenant!

Gatling

pc7 wrote: »

Send it in writing that if they do not resolve the issue within X days you will start deducting rent, they'll move pretty quick then I reckon. If you have kept a record of the times you've requested this (hopefully in writing) that should help your case, you shouldn't have to put up with stuff like this. I always try make my tenants feel like it is their home so they tend to want to look after it, a happy tenant is a good tenant!

You cannot legally deduct/ withhold rent

But if things are that bad op I'd be finding somewhere else to live

pc7

Gatling wrote: »

You cannot legally deduct/ withhold rent

No but the threat should be enough to get their ass in gear (which is what I suggested), no tenant should have to put up with substandard accommodation.

Valeen

Don't give your PPS number. Its a private company and your number is personal, by the look of things we may not pay for the water (hopefully) as the people of Ireland are tired of paying we must all get out on the 1st of November and protest rant over

Snoopy1

Where I'm from we've been paying water charges for years. It's only when I moved to Ireland I couldn't believe you didn't pay it over here

listermint

Snoopy1 wrote: »

Where I'm from we've been paying water charges for years. It's only when I moved to Ireland I couldn't believe you didn't pay it over here

We did and do pay for it. Get your facts correct. Just because the money we did and do pay is mismanaged at all levels does not dispute the facts that it was and is paid for out of other taxes collected.

Snoopy1

listermint wrote: »

We did and do pay for it. Get your facts correct. Just because the money we did and do pay is mismanaged at all levels does not dispute the facts that it was and is paid for out of other taxes collected.

I meant we paid private companies. I had to pay one company for incoming water and one company for outgoing water.
My facts are correct so don't take that attitude with me.

Victor

Valeen wrote: »

Don't give your PPS number.

Please do not recommend courses of action that may get people in trouble.

listermint wrote: »

Get your facts correct..

Tone it down

Moderator

MadDog76

Valeen wrote: »

Don't give your PPS number. Its a private company and your number is personal, by the look of things we may not pay for the water (hopefully) as the people of Ireland are tired of paying we must all get out on the 1st of November and protest rant over

This is the usual nonsense that comes up every time there's change here in Ireland ..........
The Smoking Ban "I'll still smoke in the pub, try and stop me!!" Brigade, where are they now??
The Property Tax "hell no, we won't pay" Brigade ......... they eventually paid.

And it'll be the same with Water Charges ......... nobody likes it, I don't like it ...... but we will all eventually pay (and so we should I suppose) so why get stressed about the inevitable

Snoopy1

MadDog76 wrote: »

This is the usual nonsense that comes up every time there's change here in Ireland ..........
The Smoking Ban "I'll still smoke in the pub, try and stop me!!" Brigade, where are they now??
The Property Tax "hell no, we won't pay" Brigade ......... they eventually paid.

And it'll be the same with Water Charges ......... nobody likes it, I don't like it ...... but we will all eventually pay (and so we should I suppose) so why get stressed about the inevitable

Yes. Well said

Eldarion

MadDog76 wrote: »

This is the usual nonsense that comes up every time there's change here in Ireland ..........
The Smoking Ban "I'll still smoke in the pub, try and stop me!!" Brigade, where are they now??
The Property Tax "hell no, we won't pay" Brigade ......... they eventually paid.

And it'll be the same with Water Charges ......... nobody likes it, I don't like it ...... but we will all eventually pay (and so we should I suppose) so why get stressed about the inevitable

Where as I agree with all the changes and charges you outlined here, I really am saddened by your rationale behind accepting them. It's less stressful to just roll over and accept more taxes?

I agree with LPT, I agree with water charges and I agree with the smoking ban each on their own merits, but if the government tried to introduce something ridiculous I'd like to think we as a nation wouldn't just sustain the charge because it would be less stressful to just accept it.