Homeland season 4 (RTE pace)

TwoShedsJackson

brijay wrote: »

Hey I stopped watching homeland after season 3 because I thought the show would go no where after Brody died, is season 4 worth watching?

Season 4 is a HUGE improvement. Well worth watching.

MOH

IanOBo wrote: »

anyone know the significance of Saul's glasses?

He takes them off during the exchange, Carrie picks them up. Then in the car, she hands them back. He puts them on, then BOOM

I think it was just misdirection - there was a lot of needless focus on them. They'd taken his glasses off him while he was a captive, gave them back to him when they were cleaning him up before the exchange, he takes them off, Carrie gives them back, didn't seem to have much purpose beyond focusing your attention so you were even less expecting the BOOM

Aimeee

IanOBo wrote: »

anyone know the significance of Saul's glasses?

He takes them off during the exchange, Carrie picks them up. Then in the car, she hands them back. He puts them on, then BOOM

I think they were meant to be symbolic of Saul being "gone" and Saul being "back", ie him thinking straight and not and I use those terms loosely given the circumstances he was in. Just before the explosion she gave him the glasses and he took the phone to talk to Mira/Mera, symbolising he was back.
Another thought was that they were symbol of the power and powerless stages he goes through when captive/during the exchange etc.

What did people think of the interrogation/debriefing of Saul by Quinn. I know he must be traumatised obviously but did it mean more than we saw? Poor Saul ultimate failure for him to be used as the pawn for all Haaqaani's men THEN to have their years of intelligence and recruits gained (who will now suffer at the hands of the Taliban) handed over.
His story isn't over yet I think. Will he go back to US?

Caprica

This has been a fantastic season of Homeland, I was worried where it was going to go after Brodys death but I was wrong, it's given the show a new lease of life . The last few weeks have been superb. The scenes on the runway with Saul, the convoy being bombed and then Haqqani entering the embassy was an unbelievable end to an episode. This week was just as good, I was disappointed to see the end of Fara, I have really grown to like her character.

I am shocked that I have really come to enjoy Lockhart, his 'WTF' speech was brilliant and I was surprised/impressed that he did try to save Fara. Denis is enjoyable for all the wrong reasons, he would do anything to save himself.

I kinda felt sorry for the Brodys at the end of season 3, I would have liked to see them have some kind of closure, they just seem to be forgotten at the end. Dana wasn't that bad was she?

fondue

Caprica wrote: »

This has been a fantastic season of Homeland, I was worried where it was going to go after Brodys death but I was wrong, it's given the show a new lease of life . The last few weeks have been superb. The scenes on the runway with Saul, the convoy being bombed and then Haqqani entering the embassy was an unbelievable end to an episode. This week was just as good, I was disappointed to see the end of Fara, I have really grown to like her character.

I am shocked that I have really come to enjoy Lockhart, his 'WTF' speech was brilliant and I was surprised/impressed that he did try to save Fara. Denis is enjoyable for all the wrong reasons, he would do anything to save himself.

I kinda felt sorry for the Brodys at the end of season 3, I would have liked to see them have some kind of closure, they just seem to be forgotten at the end. Dana wasn't that bad was she?

She really was that bad. Such an improved show without the Brodys.

TwoShedsJackson

fondue wrote: »

She really was that bad. Such an improved show without the Brodys.

I could stand to see some more of Morena Baccarin She's been cast in Gotham though.

Yeah Dana with her bloody teenage angst, and Chris 'big screen tv in every room' Brody can clear off. Most times Chris appeared, Brody just told him to leave the room.

Ceist_Beag

Caprica wrote: »

I am shocked that I have really come to enjoy Lockhart, his 'WTF' speech was brilliant and I was surprised/impressed that he did try to save Fara. Denis is enjoyable for all the wrong reasons, he would do anything to save himself.

Yeah Lockhart this season has been a great character. His speech to the Pakistanis was great and he even has a bit of smart humour thrown in. Quinn is brilliant as well - Jason Bournesque! As you say, getting rid of Brody has given the scriptwriters a new freedom and it's brilliant.

Dandelion6

I stopped watching a few episodes into Season 3 because I thought it was getting ridiculous and I was sick of the Brodys (all of them). Was persuaded to come back because of the reported vast improvement of this season. Finally got caught up last night - wow. I'm so glad I came back.

Was sorry to see Farah's death and John's too.

Chimaera

The tension between Lockhart and the ambassador has been interesting all season. The upjumped politician vs. the seasoned diplomat. It'll be interesting to see how their stories pan out now as the dust settles on the embassy debacle. Lockhart's decision to give up the list of contacts will have huge repercussions for the Americans' intelligence efforts while Martha has to deal with the fallout from her husband's involvement with the Pakistanis.

Haqqani's jibe at Farah about her killing Muslims rankled, given how many of them he's probably killed, including his nephew. Then he stabs her.

lukin

Chimaera wrote: »

Haqqani's jibe at Farah about her killing Muslims rankled, given how many of them he's probably killed, including his nephew. Then he stabs her.

Yeah, a case of the pot calling the kettle black for sure. Farah could have pointed that out to him but probably didn't want to provoke him. He was going to kill her anyway I suppose.

The Black Oil

Lockhart gets the best lines. This week it's 'back the **** off!*

4.10

Heavy on casualties. Those 10 minutes gotta burn. Lockhart's usually a fairly assured guy, though not without some fire in his belly. Think his move was inevitable. *He also had a line later on 'will this ever ****ing end?' and you'd have to think that's a broader statement about this conflict.

ISI handler continues to be a wagon. It's a little difficult for me to take Haqqani seriously due to his facial hair. :P

Fara And that belt scene, damn. You knew he wouldn't go through it with it, most would cry cop out. Credit due as I've grown to like the ambassador more over the last while. Solo intel op for Quinn, let's see where that goes.

As for Saul's glasses, iirc, they had a role in season 2 I think it was - they were broken and a prisoner he interviewed took his/her own life. Wasn't there some suggestion there it wasn't a straightforward death?

Tigger99

Wow, homeland is back to its best. I had 4 episodes to watch and was thinking it'd drag in, goes to show how wrong I was. I was so glad to have so many to watch in a row. Gripping stuff.

den87

Sooo no episode this week??

Diego Tristan

den87 wrote: »

Sooo no episode this week??

Yes there was. Was on at 9 this evening. Anyone any theories on the ending?!

Tigger99

Remind me, who was the guy with your man's uncle?

Mrs Fox

Tigger99 wrote: »

Remind me, who was the guy with your man's uncle?

He's the black ops guy from previous seasons, no? The one who Quinn was reporting to?

Diego Tristan

Mrs Fox wrote: »

He's the black ops guy from previous seasons, no? The one who Quinn was reporting to?

Ya, that's him. Dar Adal. Didn't recognise him until the continuity announcer mentioned his name during the credits!

mighty magpie

Mrs Fox wrote: »

He's the black ops guy from previous seasons, no? The one who Quinn was reporting to?

Did him and quinn have a fall out previously?

I think he (dar adal??) could be involved in something that's being lead from CIA HQ that lockhart/carrie have nothing to do with. Carrie was holding back from lockhart in their phonecall but I think they're both out in the cold with this.

My question is, how does the Pakistan official that has been meeting with carrie know Dar Adal?

Tigger99

Ah ok. Thanks.

Ceist_Beag

Another brilliant (if a bit far fetched at times) episode. The way they showed the clip of Dar Adal at the start talking about how it was sentimental to think people come before a mission. Then we have the scene at the end where you're wondering was that a clue, could Quinn blow up Carrie along with Haqqani? Followed swiftly by Carrie coming to her senses finally and seeing the opportunity to take Haqqani out, I thought it was brilliant.
A few things didn't add up alright, such as Quinn walking outside the compound with only a baseball cap for cover, or the superbly quick organisation of a march outside the compound with placards already printed out. But I was enjoying the build up of tension too much to worry about nit picking.
As mighty magpie says tho there is one question from the last scene (it's not a spoiler as this is stuff already aired).
How did Khan know about Dar Adal being in the car? Also, where Khan mentioned that it was not an attack on the US Embassy but rather a coup, what exactly did he mean? Could it be that all along they (Haqqani) had Dar Adal on their side and are now about to have him installed as the Director of the CIA, replacing Lockhart? But if that is the case why would Khan have stopped Carrie from killing Haqqani? It must be more that there are negotiations ongoing between Dar Adal (representing the US president) and Haqqani for a truce, because they no longer trust Lockhart to do his job. That's the only sense I can make out of it.

den87

Diego Tristan wrote: »

Yes there was. Was on at 9 this evening. Anyone any theories on the ending?!

Nooooo. Missed it :-(

cremeegg

Ceist_Beag wrote: »

Another brilliant (if a bit far fetched at times) episode. The way they showed the clip of Dar Adal at the start talking about how it was sentimental to think people come before a mission. Then we have the scene at the end where you're wondering was that a clue, could Quinn blow up Carrie along with Haqqani? Followed swiftly by Carrie coming to her senses finally and seeing the opportunity to take Haqqani out, I thought it was brilliant.
A few things didn't add up alright, such as Quinn walking outside the compound with only a baseball cap for cover, or the superbly quick organisation of a march outside the compound with placards already printed out. But I was enjoying the build up of tension too much to worry about nit picking.
As mighty magpie says tho there is one question from the last scene (it's not a spoiler as this is stuff already aired).
How did Khan know about Dar Adal being in the car? Also, where Khan mentioned that it was not an attack on the US Embassy but rather a coup, what exactly did he mean? Could it be that all along they (Haqqani) had Dar Adal on their side and are now about to have him installed as the Director of the CIA, replacing Lockhart? But if that is the case why would Khan have stopped Carrie from killing Haqqani? It must be more that there are negotiations ongoing between Dar Adal (representing the US president) and Haqqani for a truce, because they no longer trust Lockhart to do his job. That's the only sense I can make out of it.

this season has more plot twists then a back road home from the local pub (sorry only analogy i could think off).. very twisty plot this season...

GrumPy

Ceist_Beag wrote: »

Another brilliant (if a bit far fetched at times) episode. The way they showed the clip of Dar Adal at the start talking about how it was sentimental to think people come before a mission. Then we have the scene at the end where you're wondering was that a clue, could Quinn blow up Carrie along with Haqqani? Followed swiftly by Carrie coming to her senses finally and seeing the opportunity to take Haqqani out, I thought it was brilliant.
A few things didn't add up alright, such as Quinn walking outside the compound with only a baseball cap for cover, or the superbly quick organisation of a march outside the compound with placards already printed out. But I was enjoying the build up of tension too much to worry about nit picking.
As mighty magpie says tho there is one question from the last scene (it's not a spoiler as this is stuff already aired).
How did Khan know about Dar Adal being in the car? Also, where Khan mentioned that it was not an attack on the US Embassy but rather a coup, what exactly did he mean? Could it be that all along they (Haqqani) had Dar Adal on their side and are now about to have him installed as the Director of the CIA, replacing Lockhart? But if that is the case why would Khan have stopped Carrie from killing Haqqani? It must be more that there are negotiations ongoing between Dar Adal (representing the US president) and Haqqani for a truce, because they no longer trust Lockhart to do his job. That's the only sense I can make out of it.

Quality level of thought and analysis right there! You're blowing my mind, lol.

Aimeee

Ceist_Beag wrote: »

Another brilliant (if a bit far fetched at times) episode. The way they showed the clip of Dar Adal at the start talking about how it was sentimental to think people come before a mission. Then we have the scene at the end where you're wondering was that a clue, could Quinn blow up Carrie along with Haqqani? Followed swiftly by Carrie coming to her senses finally and seeing the opportunity to take Haqqani out, I thought it was brilliant.
A few things didn't add up alright, such as Quinn walking outside the compound with only a baseball cap for cover, or the superbly quick organisation of a march outside the compound with placards already printed out. But I was enjoying the build up of tension too much to worry about nit picking.
As mighty magpie says tho there is one question from the last scene (it's not a spoiler as this is stuff already aired).
How did Khan know about Dar Adal being in the car? Also, where Khan mentioned that it was not an attack on the US Embassy but rather a coup, what exactly did he mean? Could it be that all along they (Haqqani) had Dar Adal on their side and are now about to have him installed as the Director of the CIA, replacing Lockhart? But if that is the case why would Khan have stopped Carrie from killing Haqqani? It must be more that there are negotiations ongoing between Dar Adal (representing the US president) and Haqqani for a truce, because they no longer trust Lockhart to do his job. That's the only sense I can make out of it.

Excellent post. I think whatever is going on the Pakistani government are in on it/involved (possibly Khan being stitched up in the process or moved on like Lockhart). Is next week last episode?

IanOBo

The top boys in Washington know he is over there and Carrie & Lockhart were kept in the dark. What does that mean?

Its not another kidnap. Negotiations? Double agent?

Ceist_Beag

Aimeee wrote: »

Is next week last episode?

It is indeed - I cannot wait! Haven't enjoyed a tv show as much since Breaking Bad.

The Black Oil

4.11

This one was directed by Clark Johnson - he's got plenty of experience. Good, if one of those episodes where you simply nod along re any credibility aspects. Be grand. Thanks, James Rebhorn (actor who played Carrie's father) for your work on this show.

Quinn's moves are very much out of the school of Jack Bauer. That includes injuring a colleague, always avoiding the arteries! Going to the medical student was a solid one, though I would have liked to see him work more to justify it to her.

For a second there I thought Quinn's German girl was going to deck Carrie, even on their first meeting. The Pakistanis also use the term 'mop up', huh?

Dar Adal showing up was a rather wtf moment. Am looking forward to seeing him again. The bit prior to that was of course a complete retread of the Saul and the drone scenario.

You and your Volkswagen. Show's still got it. :pac:

The Black Oil

4.12 - Low key episode. Written by Meredith Stiehm's usually a good sign. Glad the James Rebhorn tribute continued.

Full pint of Saul this week. Alternate episode title should be Being a Parent. Absence, loss and rejection burn right through it. Like the Carrie/Quinn thing, it's been brewing for a while. Saying that, I thought Saul's '**** this' early on about sums up the episode, really.

I feckin' knew Adal had the tape.

Two torpedoes in the side, talking on water.

Tigger99

Was homeland on network 2 this evening? Thought I saw the savage eye on instead?

The Black Oil

Yeah, it was on 9-10pm. Would imagine it'll be on the player tomorrow.

Tigger99

Oh actually it taped ok. Thanks black oil

RainyDay

The Black Oil wrote: »

4.12 - Low key episode. Written by Meredith Stiehm's usually a good sign. Glad the James Rebhorn tribute continued.

Full pint of Saul this week. Alternate episode title should be Being a Parent. Absence, loss and rejection burn right through it. Like the Carrie/Quinn thing, it's been brewing for a while. Saying that, I thought Saul's '**** this' early on about sums up the episode, really.

I feckin' knew Adal had the tape.

Two torpedoes in the side, talking on water.

I thought it was a very poor episode, particularly for the season finale. The whole thing about Carrie's mother seemed like a bit of a red herring. The issue had never come up before, and then here it is, suddenly a big issue between her and the sister.

And the Saul thing right at the end just seemed like they were looking for 'a twist' - but didn't make much sense to me. It would have been all right for a mid-season episode, but I was expecting a lot more from the finale.

evolving_doors

RainyDay wrote: »

I thought it was a very poor episode, particularly for the season finale. The whole thing about Carrie's mother seemed like a bit of a red herring. The issue had never come up before, and then here it is, suddenly a big issue between her and the sister.

And the Saul thing right at the end just seemed like they were looking for 'a twist' - but didn't make much sense to me. It would have been all right for a mid-season episode, but I was expecting a lot more from the finale.

Well itll set up the next season perfectly rather than a shootout clifhanger.

Season 5 . Carrie abandoned by her state family turns to playing happy families with her mom/step brother/sister daughter.

But ... she has one last score to settle when the past comes knocking on her door...

Bit formulaic really.

MOH

RainyDay wrote: »

The issue had never come up before, and then here it is, suddenly a big issue between her and the sister.

Speaking of her sister, didn't she have two kids?! There was one shot at the funeral which might have been one of them, but they've been absent all season

Tigger99

That was a finale episode? It wasn't great at all. No wonder it only got a 5.1 on imdb.

Redmen Rafalution

I thought it was a terrible episode. I don't know where they go from here. It really is an unusual mix of awful television combined with some compelling scenes. The quality within and between episodes varies wildly imo

ThisRegard

People wondered where it would go after season 3 and it's been fantastic since.

Nothing wrong with the finale, plenty of scope for next season with the CIA getting who they think will be the next prime minister into their pocket despite him previously being on their kill list.

TwoShedsJackson

Well they dropped the ball somewhat with the daft 'Carrie and Quinn outside Haqqani's place in Islamabad' scene at the end of the previous episode and then decided to go for a fairly strange change-of-pace-to-a-soap-opera approach with the last episode.

Really don't care about Carrie's mother and had been hoping for at least some action. Oh well, still a big improvement on Season 3.

evolving_doors

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

Well they dropped the ball somewhat with the daft 'Carrie and Quinn outside Haqqani's place in Islamabad' scene at the end of the previous episode and then decided to go for a fairly strange change-of-pace-to-a-soap-opera approach with the last episode.

Really don't care about Carrie's mother and had been hoping for at least some action. Oh well, still a big improvement on Season 3.

Ya although I suppose like 24 (which is what this is turning out to be) they always needed the 'family in peril' to motivate the protagonist.

evolving_doors

ThisRegard wrote: »

People wondered where it would go after season 3 and it's been fantastic since.

Nothing wrong with the finale, plenty of scope for next season with the CIA getting who they think will be the next prime minister into their pocket despite him previously being on their kill list.

Really though it's Haqquaini who has the CIA in his pocket which is kind of an about turn from the Iran move.

Caprica

After the excitement of the previous episodes I was really looking forward to seeing how Season 4 was going to be wrapped up but seeing the 5.1 rating on IMDB I wasn't expecting the best of ends. While the episode was definitely not what I expected, I still enjoyed it.

I enjoyed the scenes with Carries mother and it was interesting to see her explain why she left her father (not for the reason I expected) and the appearance of her half brother. I found the scene in park where she met her Fathers friend and the eulogy she delivered to be very moving. What I found really enjoyable and compelling were the scenes between Dar Adal and Saul, I really thought Saul was going to tell him where to go but in the end he seen the bigger picture. The idea to make a deal with Haqqani is reflective of what the States and the CIA do in the real world, suddenly there enemy is their friend as the alternatives are a lot worse. How will this affect Saul and Carries relationship? Her look at the end was one of disgust.

I'm not a fan of the Quinn/Carrie romance, does the show really need it? do the viewers need/want it? I don't think so. I expected to hook up with the apartment manager but she was nowhere to be seen. There is hardly going to be a Syrian element to next season? I will miss Lockhart next season, he has really grown in to a great character from someone I initially hated.

A few things I would like to have seen explained were;

How Carrie and Quinn got home
How did the Pakistanis explain what happened
What happened Dennis
I would like to have seen payback or justice dished out to Tasneem.

One final thing, Frannie is perfectly cast, she is definitely Brodys daughter.

evolving_doors

Dunno if Lockhart is out of the show though (unless it's been announced!). It would seem that he still has to get his bit of revenge too so it would be a bit unresolved not to have him back in any form.

The Black Oil

The show will probably always have some romantic component between two close characters. The apartment manager was there mostly so Quinn could sort out his head.

One of the amusing comments I saw over at the AV Club suggested a Quinn spin off. They should set up him in a bromance. :pac: