Mental health and the moon

WhiteWalls

A mate of mine told me that the moon affects people with mental disabilities.. He was genuinely serious! Anybody ever hear of this before?

Sir Arthur Daley

Heard of it but dont have a link.

Smiles35

lunacy

Firewalkwithme

WhiteWalls wrote: »

A mate of mine told me that the moon affects people with mental disabilities.. He was genuinely serious! Anybody ever hear of this before?

You're nuts.

foggy_lad

Noblong wrote: »

lunacy

lunarcy

Albertofrog

I've worked in A&E around the full moon.
It does!
Sure you'll have to be a lunatic to think otherwise 😉

guitarzero

Yep, it's what I normally do when I freak out and do regrettable sh*t, blame the moon.

Sir Arthur Daley

The moon disproportionally affects the cerabal cortex.

Gyalist

A quick search of the internet on the "lunar effect" will sort you out.

The Latin word for moon - luna - is also the root for lunatic.

WhiteWalls

There is a grand moon out tonight

Frito

Yeah I've heard of this. Biological tides theory I think it's called, where because the moon has a gravitational pull on large bodies of water it could have some effect on the water in our bodies. But as a theory it's widely criticised. There's little evidence for lunar effect in mental health save a confirmation bias.

There is a set of behaviours known as sun-downing that occur frequently in people with dementia. Iirc this is more to do with hormonal interruptions of the circadian rhythym that manifest as confusion, agitation etc.

--LOS--

I'll let Neil deGrasse take that one....

On crazy behavior associated with a full Moon:

People say, Oh they acted crazy, the Moon pulls the tides, the tides are made of water, the human body is mostly water, the Moon must affect the human body. (...) You can ask the question, what is the tidal force of the Moon on your cranium? (...) Because if that were severe, it could be messing with you, right? So you do the calculation, and it turns out, if you were one of these people who sleep with a lot of pillows, and one of the pillows is kind of leaning on your head overnight, the pressure from that pillow on your head is a trillion times greater than the tidal force of the Moon across your cranium. But nobody talks about the effects of down pillows on your behavior the next day.

jill_valentine

Statistically I don't think it's something that shows up, but I know a lot of emergency worker first responder types, and they all swear it's true.

The suggestion an old lecturer of mine had was that it's simply easier to get up to divilment on a bright night.

fizzypish

I have been known to go nuts if I drink during a full moon.

Balmed Out

I spent a night in Dublin airport unfortunately sitting next to some guy called Bonzai, he had all sorts of newspaper stories about him and had them in a scrap book. Anyhow he banged on about this all night despite me never arguing the fact. He was positive that it was especially true of Irish people.

Load of crap

AtomicHorror

jill_valentine wrote: »

Statistically I don't think it's something that shows up, but I know a lot of emergency worker first responder types, and they all swear it's true.

Because they're human and humans do this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

tigger123

T'is a myth.

Sinister Kid

Albertofrog wrote: »

I've worked in A&E around the full moon.
It does!
Sure you'll have to be a lunatic to think otherwise 😉

My mother works in a residential unit for kids with high support needs, all the staff will swear the kids go extra troublesome during the full moon.

I have noticed my dog goes a bit mad too...

Timmyctc

--LOS-- wrote: »

I'll let Neil deGrasse take that one....

Two points on that. I often complain about my pillows cause it makes me cranky **** when it leaves me with an ache in my neck the next day :P

Secondly. Neil de Grasse Tyson annoys the absolute **** out of me :pac:

Badly Drunk Boy

A lot of it is just psychological. Stuff is getting a bit frenetic, A&E is like a madhouse, "I acted like a lunatic after a load of beer last night". Wait...wasn't there a full moon last night? That must have been the reason for all that stuff!!!

ShagNastii

My dad worked for the coastguard most of his career so he had to deal with suicidal bridge jumpers often. He said he didn’t believe it to be coincidence that it happened an awful lot more when a full moon occurred.

The Backwards Man

Scientists can stick their confirmation bias up their holes. Here in the real world, the moon has an effect.

AtomicHorror

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Scientists can stick their confirmation bias up their holes. Here in the real world, the moon had an effect.

Yeah those scientists and their checking to see if stuff actually happens so we can make decisions based on objective evidence instead of a bunch of stories people swear by.

**** them, right?

endacl

Albertofrog wrote: »

I've worked in A&E around the full moon.
It does!
Sure you'll have to be a lunatic to think otherwise 😉

Confirmation bias.

Akrasia

ShagNastii wrote: »

My dad worked for the coastguard most of his career so he had to deal with suicidal bridge jumpers often. He said he didn’t believe it to be coincidence that it happened an awful lot more when a full moon occurred.

First of all, did he colate the data to prove that there were actually more calls on a full moon?

Secondly, what did he believe was the cause if it wasn't a coincidence?

thirdly, when people say 'it's a full moon' do they mean an actual full moon, or any night when the moon looked like it was full?

http://www.moonconnection.com/moon_phases_calendar.phtml
between the 4th and the 13th of this month, the moon has been significantly more than half 'full'. Between the 6th and the 11th, the moon would have looked like it was full to the casual observer.

That's a significant portion of the month when unusual events could be linked to the moon via confirmation bias.

The Backwards Man

AtomicHorror wrote: »

Yeah those scientists and their checking to see if stuff actually happens so we can make decisions based on objective evidence instead of a bunch of stories people swear by.

**** them, right?

Exactly. All they do is 'gather evidence' and 'deduce' and 'objectify'. They don't have any ideas about what's going on, they are just surmising like the rest of us.

Blackhorse Slim

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Scientists can stick their confirmation bias up their holes. Here in the real world, the moon has an effect.

You have it backwards, man

ShagNastii

Akrasia wrote: »

First of all, did he colate the data to prove that there were actually more calls on a full moon?

Secondly, what did he believe was the cause if it wasn't a coincidence?

thirdly, when people say 'it's a full moon' do they mean an actual full moon, or any night when the moon looked like it was full?

http://www.moonconnection.com/moon_phases_calendar.phtml
between the 4th and the 13th of this month, the moon has been significantly more than half 'full'. Between the 6th and the 11th, the moon would have looked like it was full to the casual observer.

That's a significant portion of the month when unusual events could be linked to the moon via confirmation bias.

Jaysus I didn’t say he conducted an experiment. I’d imagine, leaving the house he looked to the sky and if there was a big white full faced moon looking back at him he probably said to himself “going by pass experiences we’ll surely be dealing with a few lunatics tonight”.

GLaDOS

Did a quick search and this paper suggests a correlation between schizophrenia patients and their condition deteriorating around the full moon. Don't have access to the full paper though.

Cianmcliam

Surely all a full moon is is a moon with the fully lit face pointing straight at us. It's not going to be closer or further or in any way different from any other night just because we're looking at the lit face. The only effect then could be the extra light levels at night which would be fairly insignificant if you are indoors or there is street lighting. My vote is it's a myth.

Hoop66

Do people who think that full moon affects behaviour think that the moon is somehow heavier when there's more light shining on it?


EDIT: Great minds!

GLaDOS

Cianmcliam wrote: »

My vote is it's a myth.

Could the myth itself be influencing peoples behaviour though I wonder? I don't think there's any physical effect of a full moon, but if people are told the full moon makes people crazy, some people are going to believe it, a self fulfilling prophecy so to speak.

Iwannahurl

The lunar cycle can affect sleep, and sleep disturbance can affect mental states.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10363673

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18786384

My own sleep patterns change according to the seasons, and for some reason I start to wake early every autumn.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21720205

AtomicHorror

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Exactly. All they do is 'gather evidence' and 'deduce' and 'objectify'. They don't have any ideas about what's going on, they are just surmising like the rest of us.

You put those words in quotes like they don't mean anything significant. You have no idea what science is, do you? Beyond the version from films and TV, I mean.

KomradeBishop

I guess in a way the full moon does have an effect on some peoples mental health, in that it gets them believing pseudoscientific nonsense like the Lunar Effect.

the evasion_kid

I know a fella that works in a mental health facility and he's told me numerous times the change of behaviour in patients around full moon time,I think I remember seeing a program about this too were they interviewed two cops who used to patrol a dodgy part of some city and they said the place would go ballistic around a full moon.

KomradeBishop

I guess that also, if some minority of people put credence in the idea of the lunar effect, and then change their own behaviour in odd ways based on that (i.e. deliberately act oddly based on that - more likely with certain mental illnesses), that stuff like that can influence people around them, and spread that way - some interesting historical cases of stuff like that:
http://news.discovery.com/history/history-mass-hysteria-120206.htm

Many religious 'miracles' that are claimed to be witnessed/believed by large numbers of people - when nothing really happened - are probably a good example of this effect, only it was easier for people to fall into that, as religious beliefs like this used to be more credible - whereas stuff like that lunar effect, less so.

Earthhorse

A garda friend of mine was talking to me about this over the weekend but if it's true, wouldn't we see a gradual increase in crazy behaviour as the full moon approaches and then a gradual recession from it afterwards? But no, apparently the tipping point for this effect is the full moon and the full moon only.

buckfasterer

Ask any barman or bouncer about working when it's a full moon. Extra dosage of arsholes make an appearance those nights. I've seen it too many times for it to be coincidence.

The Backwards Man

AtomicHorror wrote: »

You put those words in quotes like they don't mean anything significant. You have no idea what science is, do you? Beyond the version from films and TV, I mean.

Yep, absolutely none, I'm a straw-eating forelock tugging bumkim from the backarse of nowhere, and I like my ancestors before me, I'm as dumb as a rock. It's a miracle we have survived so long considering how little we know about everything.

Hoop66

There's an awful lot of anecdotal evidence: "my buddy works in x and he says it goes crazy at the full moon".

There's very little empirical evidence for it, however:

58,527 police arrests in a 7-year period: no difference in the number of arrests made during any phase of the moon.
Reference: Antisocial behavior and lunar activity: a failure to validate the lunacy myth (1977)

361,580 calls for police assistance in a 3-year period: calls had no relationship to the phase of the moon when the day of the week, holiday and year were controlled.
Reference: Perceptual and Motor Skills, 57:993-994, 1983.

1,289 aggressive "incidents" by hospitalized psychiatric patients in a 105-week period: no significant relationship between the severity or amount of violence/aggression and phase of the moon.
Reference: Lunar cycles and violent behaviour (1998)

The rate of agitation in 24 nursing home residents in a 3-month period: no significant relationship of agitation to moon phase.
Reference: Full moon: Does it influence agitated nursing home residents? (1989)

The number of aggressive offenses (fighting, threatening or assaulting an officer, creating a disturbance) for 1,300 male inmates in a medium security prison in a one year period: no significant relationship between agressive offenses and moon phase.
Reference: Full moon: Aggression in a prison setting as a function of lunar phases. (1998)

1,329 assaults in four prisons in a 2-year period: no difference in the number of assaults on full moon and non-full moon days.
Reference: Atlas, R., Violence in prison. Environmental influences, Enviro. Beh., 16:275-306, 1984.

2,017 homicides in a 3-year period: no relationship between the number of homicides and the phase of the moon.
Reference: Porkorny, A.D., Moon phases, suicide, and homicide, Am. J. Psychiatry, 121:66-67, 1964

20,500 homicides in the United States in a 1-year period: no relationship between the number of homicides and the phase of the moon.
Reference: Temporal variation in suicide and homicide (1979)

1,840 incidences of "acting-out" in people in a psychiatric treatment facility in a 3-year period: no relationship between the number of acting-out incidences and the phase of the moon.
Reference: Lunar phase and acting-out behavior (1986)

23,142 incidences of battery (aggravated assault) in a 7-year period in Germany: no relationship between the number of aggravated assaults and the phase of the moon.
Reference: Relationship between lunar phases and serious crimes of battery: a population-based study (2010)

28064212

Confirmation bias and the lunar cycle: http://comics.rudism.com/cectic/145.png

the evasion_kid

Earthhorse wrote: »

A garda friend of mine was talking to me about this over the weekend but if it's true, wouldn't we see a gradual increase in crazy behaviour as the full moon approaches and then a gradual recession from it afterwards? But no, apparently the tipping point for this effect is the full moon and the full moon only.

As a side note does anyone else get fairly vivid,lucid dreams coming up to and during the full moon?

endacl

Call me crazy, call me wacko, but I have definitely noticed that every full moon, nothing different happens. There's not appreciably any more of anything, or less of anything. Apart from if the full moon occurs in winter of course. If that happens, more people notice it while wearing heavy coats. Of course, this may Not be down to correlation=/=causation. Needs more research.

AtomicHorror

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Yep, absolutely none, I'm a straw-eating forelock tugging bumkim from the backarse of nowhere, and I like my ancestors before me, I'm as dumb as a rock. It's a miracle we have survived so long considering how little we know about everything.

Successful troll. Doh.

Apologies!

AtomicHorror

buckfasterer wrote: »

Ask any barman or bouncer about working when it's a full moon. Extra dosage of arsholes make an appearance those nights. I've seen it too many times for it to be coincidence.

**** those scientific studies. Barmen and bouncers would never spin a yarn.

Sunnyisland

Can we not just ask the moonies...

nelly17

MRI Scans & Depression

It was decided to investigate the surprise further. Under the direction of Michael Rohan, an imaging specialist, 30 people undergoing treatment for manic depression, known as bipolar disorder, were selected for a scanning experiment.

To make sure it was the electromagnetic fields generated by the scanner that were lifting spirits and not other aspects of patient treatment, 10 other patients underwent sham scans for comparison. Finally, to take into account the placebo effect, 14 healthy people were scanned. (The placebo effect causes people to feel better just because they are getting medical attention.)

Twenty-three people with bipolar depression (77 percent) felt better after scanning than before it. Only three (30 percent) of those who received sham scans said they felt better. Four of the healthy comparisons (29 percent) reported that the scans elevated their moods.

If the moons gravitational pull can effect tides, given that we are 75% water it does stand to reason that we can be mentally impacted by its gravitational pull in one way or another

Edit:That said however A full moon is simply a reflection of light - so in all likelyhood while the moon can have an impact physologically a full moon would make no difference

endacl

nelly17 wrote: »

If the moons gravitational pull can effect tides, given that we are 75% water it does stand to reason that we can be mentally impacted by its gravitational pull in one way or another

No it doesn't. A human is a body with water in it, not a body of water.

Slightly different topic, but applicable, and I get to quote myself from a different thread! http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056789714

"Standard pseudo plausible argument. Lunar gravity doesn't actually effect water on the scale we imagine it to. Gravity is the weakest of the four fundamental forces (see here if interested in no longer using pseudoscience to explain bunk: http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu...es/funfor.html).

The relative weakness of gravity can be easily demonstrated by using a magnet and a paper clip. Place the paper clip on a table. Hold the magnet over it. Marvel as the magnetic force you hold in your mortal hand overcomes the gravitational power of an entire planet! Amaze your friends! If all the water in all the human bodies on earth, in fact all of the water in every living creature on earth, were combined into a single mass, then lunar gravity might have a negligible effect. But there'd be nobody around to measure it. Imagine, if you will, a lake. A large lake. Lake Superior for example (containing more water than all the water contained in every living creature on earth). Tidal effect by the moon's gravity? Zero. Effect of the moon's gravity on the water contained in your cells. Zero. Tomatoes are 99% water. Effect of the moon's gravity on a tomato? A really big one? Zero.

Now, if we consider the Solar System to extend to the heliosphere, or the limit of the Sun's influence, we're still nowhere near the next nearest star, let alone those stars deemed to affect our lives, depending on when we were born. And that's ignoring the fact that the zodiac has shifted since the well-meaning primitives who came up with the system, well.... came up with the system. They did their best with the knowledge available, bless their cotton socks. Even within the solar system, 99% of the mass is tied up in the Sun. A good proportion of the rest lies with Jupiter. Gravity being a coefficient of mass, we're pretty well screened from the negligible gravity of the moon, let alone any constellation you care to consider.

Now to add insult to injury.... The moon doesn't even treat you as an individual. Neither knows nor cares that you (nor I for that matter) exist. In physical terms, the moon (and the sun for that matter) treats the earth and everything on it as a single mass as far as gravity is concerned.

Given all this, how come those enlightened ancients didn't come up with a system codifying the effect of Jupiter's Magnetic field (incidentally, the largest structure in the solar system) on our lives and future prospects, depending on an arbitrary range of dates? They used dots in the sky, and a lot of imaginative polyfilla instead.

The moon's gravity has no effect on your brain, love live or holiday plans. None at all."

Duggy747

Old Man: "Thank you, MacGyver, for saving our village!"

MacGyver: "Oh don't thank me, thank the moon's gravitational pull!"

Akrasia

Hoop66 wrote: »

There's an awful lot of anecdotal evidence: "my buddy works in x and he says it goes crazy at the full moon".

There's very little empirical evidence for it, however:

58,527 police arrests in a 7-year period: no difference in the number of arrests made during any phase of the moon.
Reference: Antisocial behavior and lunar activity: a failure to validate the lunacy myth (1977)

361,580 calls for police assistance in a 3-year period: calls had no relationship to the phase of the moon when the day of the week, holiday and year were controlled.
Reference: Perceptual and Motor Skills, 57:993-994, 1983.

1,289 aggressive "incidents" by hospitalized psychiatric patients in a 105-week period: no significant relationship between the severity or amount of violence/aggression and phase of the moon.
Reference: Lunar cycles and violent behaviour (1998)

The rate of agitation in 24 nursing home residents in a 3-month period: no significant relationship of agitation to moon phase.
Reference: Full moon: Does it influence agitated nursing home residents? (1989)

The number of aggressive offenses (fighting, threatening or assaulting an officer, creating a disturbance) for 1,300 male inmates in a medium security prison in a one year period: no significant relationship between agressive offenses and moon phase.
Reference: Full moon: Aggression in a prison setting as a function of lunar phases. (1998)

1,329 assaults in four prisons in a 2-year period: no difference in the number of assaults on full moon and non-full moon days.
Reference: Atlas, R., Violence in prison. Environmental influences, Enviro. Beh., 16:275-306, 1984.

2,017 homicides in a 3-year period: no relationship between the number of homicides and the phase of the moon.
Reference: Porkorny, A.D., Moon phases, suicide, and homicide, Am. J. Psychiatry, 121:66-67, 1964

20,500 homicides in the United States in a 1-year period: no relationship between the number of homicides and the phase of the moon.
Reference: Temporal variation in suicide and homicide (1979)

1,840 incidences of "acting-out" in people in a psychiatric treatment facility in a 3-year period: no relationship between the number of acting-out incidences and the phase of the moon.
Reference: Lunar phase and acting-out behavior (1986)

23,142 incidences of battery (aggravated assault) in a 7-year period in Germany: no relationship between the number of aggravated assaults and the phase of the moon.
Reference: Relationship between lunar phases and serious crimes of battery: a population-based study (2010)

Pfft
You can prove anything with facts....