Tánaiste Moany Burton: IW protesters 'seem to have extremely expensive phones'

Banjo String

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

No it isn't. Water is essential. Phones, mobile or landline, are not essential.


If their writing a CV on their phone maybe that's why they can't get a job.

Sent from my iPhone

..

Iwasfrozen

Deleted User wrote: »

A phone is essential, without it getting a job is almost impossible.

And those in a job need one do as to be contactable. Don't think many employers would look to kindly on an employee that they couldn't contact.

These are pretty cheap and receive calls as easily as any smartphone. The crusties won't be able to film and edit footage of protests they attend of course but that's a bonus.

efb

efb wrote: »

More essential than water??? €69 then how much s month...

You can easily get by on as little as €5 a month or even less. Webtexts save money and with meteor doing deals for as little as a €5 top up a month you can easily get by. And no one said it was more essential than water.

Shakespeare's Sister

Smidge wrote: »

I see.
So its not her politics you agree with.
Just her sentiments in what she said today.

Completely possible.

I don't think there's anything incorrect in her observation, although I don't agree all protesters are on the dole and all that rubbish.

Iwasfrozen

Banjo String wrote: »

..

Nice try, sent from my four year old laptop I saved for as a student.

steddyeddy

Water is essential. A taxpayer funded job for the boys/cronyisim venture for incompetent ex politicians in the guise of a water company isn't.

Iwasfrozen

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

These are pretty cheap and receive calls as easily as any smartphone. The crusties won't be able to film and edit footage of protests they attend of course but that's a bonus.

Nice that you can discuss the issue without resorting to cheap insults.

SterlingArcher

Haha this tread. It seems to be more about jobless people and working people having a go at each other ....

You have Johnny work hard and talk about paying his tax dollars. Proudly announce, "I'm helping the country get back on its feet". Admirable... If only poor Johnnys tax dollars were not already pissed up a wall with the shady setting up of Irish water in the first place.

And then you have damo shouting this is a disgrace. I'm going to stand around waste time shouting at these workers putting in metres. Essentially barking up the wrong tree.

By all means we need a tax and a new system in place. but one devised and executed void of any of the snake oil salesmen who have greased their hands with this thus far.

Dyr

Joany reckons that many of them smelt of expensive perfume too

The bastards

Iwasfrozen

Deleted User wrote: »

Nice that you can discuss the issue without resorting to cheap insults.

Well I'm sorry but you're really defending the indefensible.

Smidge

Idbatterim wrote: »

in defence of Burton and I detest Labour, how many days have they been in office? well over a thousand... How long could your tolerance last when you have to deal with reality and there isnt a magic money tree, before you lose patience from the ignorant crap they must have to deal with around the clock, from people who wouldnt have a grasp of even the most basic economics...

Labour have bent over backwards to protect those who are most likely to protest over the water charges and look at the thanks she gets for it :rolleyes:

Smidge wrote: »

Methinks you protest too much.
You claim not to be a supporter and then post the above?

:rolleyes: yourself, I'm not buying it

Shakespeare's Sister wrote: »

Not sure what's wrong with what they said - perfectly logical IMO.

I do find on these debates, anyone who puts forward a point of view that considers looking at things from ministers' perspectives... they get shouted down, and the auld "You must support them" accusation.

It makes sense that she'd lose patience and lash out - acknowledging that, doesn't mean agreeing with her.

I didn't see anyone shout anyone else down.
What I did do was point out the glaring contrast between "I detest Labour but..." and then the praise given by Idbatterim to her in the second part of that post.

Oh and the notes of condescension in the second part of that post didn't go unnoticed either.
I find it annoying when people try to talk from both sides of their mouths as idbatterim tried in that post.

Iwasfrozen

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Well I'm sorry but you're really defending the indefensible.

Hang on, saying that smartphones can be gotten cheap and that a phone is essential is defending the indefensible?

joe swanson

Smidge wrote: »

I didn't see anyone shout anyone else down.
What I did do was point out the glaring contrast between "I detest Labour but..." and then the praise given by Idbatterim to her in the second part of that post.

Oh and the notes of condescension in the second part of that post didn't go unnoticed either.
I find it annoying when people try to talk from both sides of their mouths as idbatterim tried in that post.

Good point. Idbatterim seems to be employing a classic shinner strategy of I don't vote Sinn Fein but.......

Shakespeare's Sister

Smidge wrote: »

I didn't see anyone shout anyone else down.

I see it all the time on these debates - people say something that isn't tearing the government to shreds and get accused of being shills.

What I did do was point out the glaring contrast between "I detest Labour but..." and then the praise given by Idbatterim to her in the second part of that post.

Praise? I really can't see why it's so difficult to detest somebody's party yet understand the point of view of an individual within it in relation to one particular issue.

I find it annoying when people try to talk from both sides of their mouths as idbatterim tried in that post.

What's wrong with balance?

Things don't have to be so either/or, us/them - things aren't that way anyway.

Dr. Mantis Toboggan

Yes Joan, poor people *spit* shouldn't have nice things.

Smidge

Shakespeare's Sister wrote: »

I see it all the time on these debates - people say something that isn't tearing the government to shreds and get accused of being shills.

Praise? I really can't see why it's so difficult to detest somebody's party yet understand the point of view of an individual within it in relation to one particular issue.

What's wrong with balance?

Things don't have to be so either/or, us/them - things aren't that way anyway.

I don't consider classing a whole group of people as scum because they decide to protest and they have a smartphone.
And it can be dressed up whatever way anyone likes.
That's what Joan meant, what idbatterim meant and what the vast majority of people who have posted here think and mean(some come right out and say it, others dont seem to have the courage of their convictions but the meaning and implication is clear nonetheless)

And Ms Burton was not speaking as an individual today when questioned on the floor and made that statement.
She was speaking as Tanaiste and Labour party leader.

percy212

Well she has done a good job of distracting everyone from the problem at hand - water charges. Now she has everyone banging on about the price of phones instead of discussing the state of the nation.

Shakespeare's Sister

Smidge wrote: »

I don't consider classing a whole group of people as scum because they decide to protest and they have a smartphone.
And it can be dressed up whatever way anyone likes.

Interpretation I guess. I honestly can't see how it indicates calling all protesters scum. Doesn't mean it wasn't ill-advised/stupid, but to me it just means: many who are complaining about the cost can afford iPhones no bother, not that they're scum.

Albertofrog

Who pays for Joans smartphone?
Oh yeah - you and me - the taxpayers.
Really - do any politicians even think before opening their mouths?

Oranage2

Large Student protests about fees - fees still brought in

Large protests over the bailout with celebrity backing - taxed up to our noses now

Water charges protest tomorrow - come whenever we'll be paying for water


Can't stop the inevitable!

Barely There

There is a huge majority of Irish people who recognise that extra taxes and charges are an inevitable consequence of cleaning up the mess the country was left in.
These people have their heads down, work hard, pay their taxes and hope for a better future.

The water-meter protestors are a tiny minority of society that represent nothing more than they whinging, whining, Celtic-Cub moaners, seasoned with a some professional protestors who've never made a positive contribution to society in their lives but have a sense of entitlement that their every want should be provided to them and paid for by others.
They have no popular mandate for their actions, which ultimately only further damages the economy and places a heavier burden on the majority who pay their taxes and charges.

The view of these whiners, that they represent some kind of popular uprising of the people is deluded and laughable - they don't and they never will.

The rest of us will simply get on with things, as we always have. The Guards will ensure that law and order prevails, the meters will be installed, the debtors will be pursued for their unpaid charges.
The country slowly but surely will drag itself back on its feet.

The protestors will find some other cause-du-jour to give try to give their pathetic lives some semblance of meaning

It was ever thus.

Streetwalker

Barely There wrote: »

There is a huge majority of Irish people who recognise that extra taxes and charges are an inevitable consequence of cleaning up the mess the country was left in.
These people have their heads down, work hard, pay their taxes and hope for a better future.

The water-meter protestors are a tiny minority of society that represent nothing more than they whinging, whining, Celtic-Cub moaners, seasoned with a some professional protestors who've never made a positive contribution to society in their lives but have a sense of entitlement that their every want should be provided to them and paid for by others.
They have no popular mandate for their actions, which ultimately only further damages the economy and places a heavier burden on the majority who pay their taxes and charges.

The view of these whiners, that they represent some kind of popular uprising of the people is deluded and laughable - they don't and they never will.

The rest of us will simply get on with things, as we always have. The Guards will ensure that law and order prevails, the meters will be installed, the debtors will be pursued for their unpaid charges.
The country slowly but surely will drag itself back on its feet.

The protestors will find some other cause-du-jour to give try to give their pathetic lives some semblance of meaning

It was ever thus.

I'm a protester yet I pay my taxes and work an average of 50 hrs a week, funny how I don't suit your argument. Anyway you mustn't be talking and living amongst the communities who are protesting the water scam because if you where you'd realise most are hard working PAYE men and women who have just had enough.

Streetwalker

Nokia3210 wrote: »

It's a reasonable point she's making, most people can actually afford to pay the water charges despite saying they can't.

Most can't actually, not the made up 250 a year the establishment is desperately trying to cheerlead and defo not the 500-660 euro charge that will drop through most working families doors.

Streetwalker

joe swanson wrote: »

Shes 100% right. Professional protesters/whingebags who have no problem picking up there paycheck from the state for doing sweet fa. I cant afford an iPad and I actually work for a living to pay their dole it seems.

I protest (I was at the one on Tuesday) yet I work a full time job. What "paycheck" from the state am I entitled to because if there's one going I'd like to know about it?

Barely There

Streetwalker wrote: »

Anyway you mustn't be talking and living amongst the communities who are protesting the water scam

No, I don't and am grateful for it.

From what I can see the kind of 'communities' that the protests are taking place in correspond pretty well with the areas where long-term unemployment and social welfare lifestyle are deeply engrained.

joe swanson

Albertofrog wrote: »

Who pays for Joans smartphone?
Oh yeah - you and me - the taxpayers.
Really - do any politicians even think before opening their mouths?

Yeah and who pays the protesters dole that their happy to take?

AudreyHepburn

As usual people are jumping to conclusions about Joan Bs thinking and meaning instead of actually read and thinking logically about what she is saying.

Personally I can see her point. It is a bit rich to be out protesting against the water charge and whining about the fact that you are struggling with the bills when you can clearly afford a nice phone or and ipad.

Surely the money you spent and are spending on these items would be better put to use on those bills? And perhaps if you spent less time protesting and more time job hunting you might not be in such apparent dire straights.

Just because there might not be work in your sector, does not mean there is no work at all.

AudreyHepburn

And as regards who the better government would to be perfectly honest I don't think people will be happy until we have a government which hands us everything for free, taxes the life out of the 'Rich' and pays us all in the 100 of 1000s of euros and/or makes so we don't have to work at all but still get every luxury item we've ever wanted.

And I'm sorry folks but that's just not a viable way of running a country.

You can claim you only want fairness all you like but I just don't believe that's the case any more.

suicide_circus

Ya

ennis81

I will be attending the protest on Saturday
I lost my job in January 2013 got a p/t job in dublin 4 straight away (I am a northsider) I have since applied for an average of 10 jobs per week, I have had 2 interviews from all those applications and didn't get the positions, I am a fully qualified book keeper and part qualified accountant, I decided to borrow to go back to college, I can't even get a crappy tax credit for my college fees as they have increased the amount that is disregarded for part time college fees. So all of you full time workers who think we are all spongers are wrong, I am really upset after reading some of the comments here from people, people like me really want a job but there so many applications for each job it seems hopeless.
Aside from the fact my water supply is so bad it is undrinkable, (I have contacted Irish water and the local council about what they propose to do about our filthy water, they both said someone would call me back... Still waiting on those calls) I spend an average of €10 on bottled water every week that is €520 per year (including vat) so am I not already paying for water??? Or should I take my chances and drink my filthy tap water and hand over my money to Irish water instead? I will march on Saturday because I'm so sick of paying for mistakes I didn't make, shame on everybody who has labelled every protester a lazy sponger, by the way my friend gave me her old Samsung phone, I certainly can't afford a fancy phone myself

joe swanson

ennis81 wrote: »

I will be attending the protest on Saturday
I lost my job in January 2013 got a p/t job in dublin 4 straight away (I am a northsider) I have since applied for an average of 10 jobs per week, I have had 2 interviews from all those applications and didn't get the positions, I am a fully qualified book keeper and part qualified accountant, I decided to borrow to go back to college, I can't even get a crappy tax credit for my college fees as they have increased the amount that is disregarded for part time college fees. So all of you full time workers who think we are all spongers are wrong, I am really upset after reading some of the comments here from people, people like me really want a job but there so many applications for each job it seems hopeless.
Aside from the fact my water supply is so bad it is undrinkable, (I have contacted Irish water and the local council about what they propose to do about our filthy water, they both said someone would call me back... Still waiting on those calls) I spend an average of €10 on bottled water every week that is €520 per year (including vat) so am I not already paying for water??? Or should I take my chances and drink my filthy tap water and hand over my money to Irish water instead? I will march on Saturday because I'm so sick of paying for mistakes I didn't make, shame on everybody who has labelled every protester a lazy sponger, by the way my friend gave me her old Samsung phone, I certainly can't afford a fancy phone myself

Well, if your water is undrinkable you don't have to pay for it. Maybe you need to look into this a bit more instead of hopping on the uninformed bandwagon

crusher000

ennis81 wrote: »

I will be attending the protest on Saturday
I lost my job in January 2013 got a p/t job in dublin 4 straight away (I am a northsider) I have since applied for an average of 10 jobs per week, I have had 2 interviews from all those applications and didn't get the positions, I am a fully qualified book keeper and part qualified accountant, I decided to borrow to go back to college, I can't even get a crappy tax credit for my college fees as they have increased the amount that is disregarded for part time college fees. So all of you full time workers who think we are all spongers are wrong, I am really upset after reading some of the comments here from people, people like me really want a job but there so many applications for each job it seems hopeless.
Aside from the fact my water supply is so bad it is undrinkable, (I have contacted Irish water and the local council about what they propose to do about our filthy water, they both said someone would call me back... Still waiting on those calls) I spend an average of €10 on bottled water every week that is €520 per year (including vat) so am I not already paying for water??? Or should I take my chances and drink my filthy tap water and hand over my money to Irish water instead? I will march on Saturday because I'm so sick of paying for mistakes I didn't make, shame on everybody who has labelled every protester a lazy sponger, by the way my friend gave me her old Samsung phone, I certainly can't afford a fancy phone myself

Be careful some posters on here won't like reality pointed out to them. Far more happier with their blurred versions of protestors as crusties or track suit wearring scumbags. Assertions on here are.

1. Protestors are jobless scroungers
2. lefties
3. Sinn Fein organise all protests in Ireland and use IRA members to recruit protestors.
4. Crusties
5. Dutch gold drinkers,tracksuit wearing scumbags.

joe swanson

crusher000 wrote: »

Be careful some posters on here won't like reality pointed out to them. Far more happier with their blurred versions of protestors as crusties or track suit wearring scumbags. Assertions on here are.

1. Protestors are jobless scroungers
2. lefties
3. Sinn Fein organise all protests in Ireland and use IRA members to recruit protestors.
4. Crusties
5. Dutch gold drinkers,tracksuit wearing scumbags.

Pretty accurate description. Well done.

Albertofrog

joe swanson wrote: »

Yeah and who pays the protesters dole that their happy to take?

I'd wager that none of the protesters are getting as much as the most lowly TD, never mind the Taniste.

Remind me again - why can a TD not pay for their own iPads/iPhones/tablets?

Honestly, do TDs not engage their brain before speaking?

joe swanson

Albertofrog wrote: »

I'd wager that none of the protesters are getting as much as the most lowly TD, never mind the Taniste.

Remind me again - why can a TD not pay for their own iPads/iPhones/tablets?

Honestly, do TDs not engage their brain before speaking?

God love them. Is their dole not enough?

ennis81

joe swanson wrote: »

Well, if your water is undrinkable you don't have to pay for it. Maybe you need to look into this a bit more instead of hopping on the uninformed bandwagon

Yes I am indeed uninformed joe, I have received no water pack, they have not attempted to install water meters yet, I have contacted both Irish water and the council and they have fobbed me off with "possible reduced rates" not that I won't have pay at all so I'm not sure where you heard that. They certainly won't be attempting to fix our water supply or water pressure. So I will still have to pay for bottled water and reduced rates for waste water? Right I've just finished applying for a few jobs is it okay if I put on me tracksuit, grab a can of Dutch gold and head off to harass the old bill now please?

Albertofrog

joe swanson wrote: »

God love them. Is their dole not enough?

So why can't a TD pay for their own iPad/iPhone/tablet?

joe swanson

ennis81 wrote: »

Yes I am indeed uninformed joe, I have received no water pack, they have not attempted to install water meters yet, I have contacted both Irish water and the council and they have fobbed me off with "possible reduced rates" not that I won't have pay at all so I'm not sure where you heard that. They certainly won't be attempting to fix our water supply or water pressure. So I will still have to pay for bottled water and reduced rates for waste water? Right I've just finished applying for a few jobs is it okay if I put on me tracksuit, grab a can of Dutch gold and head off to harass the old bill now please?

Why should you get reduced rates for waste water? I presume your not going to try and drink that?

KomradeBishop

Barely There wrote: »

There is a huge majority of Irish people who recognise that extra taxes and charges are an inevitable consequence of cleaning up the mess the country was left in.
These people have their heads down, work hard, pay their taxes and hope for a better future.

The water-meter protestors are a tiny minority of society that represent nothing more than they whinging, whining, Celtic-Cub moaners, seasoned with a some professional protestors who've never made a positive contribution to society in their lives but have a sense of entitlement that their every want should be provided to them and paid for by others.
They have no popular mandate for their actions, which ultimately only further damages the economy and places a heavier burden on the majority who pay their taxes and charges.

The view of these whiners, that they represent some kind of popular uprising of the people is deluded and laughable - they don't and they never will.

The rest of us will simply get on with things, as we always have. The Guards will ensure that law and order prevails, the meters will be installed, the debtors will be pursued for their unpaid charges.
The country slowly but surely will drag itself back on its feet.

The protestors will find some other cause-du-jour to give try to give their pathetic lives some semblance of meaning

It was ever thus.

Saying the protestors have no 'popular mandate', while claiming to speak for the majority yourself...you speak for nobody but yourself.

Your rantings here come off as those of a bitter authoritarian, who despises any challenge to current policies, and who snobbishly looks down on anyone who might be disadvantaged enough to become unemployed - even moreso if they become 'uppity' and decide to protest current policies.

What is pathetic is your desire to look down on people, who actually make the effort to express their political grievances in a way that is effective at generating public attention - you'd rather they do nothing, be quiet, and shut up, rather than present an actual challenge.

I might not agree with all the arguments against the water charges (though I definitely agree it's being handled badly - which alone is worth protesting about), but fair play to anyone who will actually make the effort to go out there and protest - they make a bigger contribution to having a politically active society, than the politically-apathetic (or rather, more politically-subservient) garbage you come out with here.

AudreyHepburn

Albertofrog wrote: »

So why can't a TD pay for their own iPad/iPhone/tablet?

Who said they can't?

I was under the impression that most, if not all of them, do so.

KomradeBishop

Barely There wrote: »

No, I don't and am grateful for it.

From what I can see the kind of 'communities' that the protests are taking place in correspond pretty well with the areas where long-term unemployment and social welfare lifestyle are deeply engrained.

Name those communities. This is one I know you're going to try and dodge, as if you try naming them, it will expose your massive ignorance here.

Sunnyisland

KomradeBishop wrote: »

Saying the protestors have no 'popular mandate', while claiming to speak for the majority yourself...you speak for nobody but yourself.

Your rantings here come off as those of a bitter authoritarian, who despises any challenge to current policies, and who snobbishly looks down on anyone who might be disadvantaged enough to become unemployed - even moreso if they become 'uppity' and decide to protest current policies.

What is pathetic is your desire to look down on people, who actually make the effort to express their political grievances in a way that is effective at generating public attention - you'd rather they do nothing, be quiet, and shut up, rather than present an actual challenge.

I might not agree with all the arguments against the water charges (though I definitely agree it's being handled badly - which alone is worth protesting about), but fair play to anyone who will actually make the effort to go out there and protest - they make a bigger contribution to having a politically active society, than the politically-apathetic (or rather, more politically-subservient) garbage you come out with here.

Well said sir.

Un Croissant

Albertofrog wrote: »

I'd wager that none of the protesters are getting as much as the most lowly TD, never mind the Taniste.

Remind me again - why can a TD not pay for their own iPads/iPhones/tablets?

Honestly, do TDs not engage their brain before speaking?

So protesters, who in this example are on the dole, should get paid the same as members of parliament?

ennis81

ennis81 wrote: »

I will be attending the protest on Saturday
/QUOTE]

This protest? https://www.facebook.com/DublinSaysNo.DSN/photos/a.850657604960748.1073741827.850647988295043/978160988877075/?type=1&theater

The one against Cronyism, Stealth Taxes, Protection for Bailed Out Bank Evictions, Forced Emigration and Suicide? No mention of water charges!

ennis81

joe swanson wrote: »

Why should you get reduced rates for waste water? I presume your not going to try and drink that?

??? Waste water according to Irish water means " water for shower, toilet, washing machine, doing dishes etc" not water fit for consumption, so I would have reduced rates for having water I can't actually drink, I would still have my weekly water bill for water to drink and water bill from Irish water for waste water, please tell me where we apply to get free water as you said in your previous post?

KomradeBishop

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

As usual people are jumping to conclusions about Joan Bs thinking and meaning instead of actually read and thinking logically about what she is saying.

Personally I can see her point. It is a bit rich to be out protesting against the water charge and whining about the fact that you are struggling with the bills when you can clearly afford a nice phone or and ipad.

Surely the money you spent and are spending on these items would be better put to use on those bills? And perhaps if you spent less time protesting and more time job hunting you might not be in such apparent dire straights.

Just because there might not be work in your sector, does not mean there is no work at all.

A decent smartphone (new) will cost you around ~€100, and a decent second-hand one about half that, and will last you years - this talking point is nonsense, you'd need to be practically homeless to be unable to afford a smartphone.

Same with the out-of-date 'LCD TV' talking point - who the fúck can't afford one of those now that they're so cheap?

These talking points also display the same ignorance that has been displayed throughout the thread, of assuming the protestors are unemployed (and you talk of jumping to conclusions...) - and then moralizing/judging unemployed people as a whole.

There also is not enough work, because there are 24 unemployed people per job vacancy:
http://www.nerinstitute.net/imglibrary/2014/09/201409021647131.jpg
http://www.nerinstitute.net/blog/2014/09/02/latest-data-on-the-vacancy-rate/

So that's more ignorance once again, of basing your judgment of the unemployed, on there being enough jobs available for them all, when there are not.

Tigger

Un Croissant wrote: »

So protesters, who in this example are on the dole, should get paid the same as members of parliament?

Makes sense

I think that if the protestors acually protested instead on interfering with the poor fellas trying to install the meters public support would be far higher

flutered

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Who said they can't?

I was under the impression that most, if not all of them, do so.

sorry to dissapoint you, ipads were given out as freebies a while back, the are allower two fones in an eighteen month period, they have a massive unvouched expense account which would take care of the rest.

ennis81

Deleted User wrote: »

ennis81 wrote: »

I will be attending the protest on Saturday
/QUOTE]

This protest? https://www.facebook.com/DublinSaysNo.DSN/photos/a.850657604960748.1073741827.850647988295043/978160988877075/?type=1&theater

The one against Cronyism, Stealth Taxes, Protection for Bailed Out Bank Evictions, Forced Emigration and Suicide? No mention of water charges!

This Maryanne84
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Protest-against-water-charges-in-the-republic-of-Ireland/213410058694008

joe swanson

flutered wrote: »

sorry to dissapoint you, ipads were given out as freebies a while back, the are allower two fones in an eighteen month period, they have a massive unvouched expense account which would take care of the rest.

The protesters also have an unvouched expense account. It's called the dole.