Darwin's theory

Saipanne

GreeBo wrote: »

Some are.
Some are rambling.
Some are posting one liners that they seem to think makes the cool.


The earthworm eats stuff and stuff comes out the other end, like most things.
The earthworm lives in the ground...there is a clue in the name. So when his crap comes out it comes out into the earth.
We call this prcoess composting.
I am pretty confident that the earthworm has no idea he is composting, he is eating, digesting and dumping, like us all.


The purpose of life is to live and pass on your genetic material, thats its.
Whatever else happens while you are doing this is largely irrelevant other than it may incidentally help or encourage others to live longer and pass on more of their genetic material.
Suffice to say, there is no plan.

Ignore button not working?

Poor Uncle Tom

GreeBo wrote: »

The purpose of life is to live and pass on your genetic material, thats its.
Whatever else happens while you are doing this is largely irrelevant other than it may incidentally help or encourage others to live longer and pass on more of their genetic material.
Suffice to say, there is no plan.

..what a fu**** downer, what's the point in getting up in the mornin'?

Davidius

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

..what a fu**** downer, what's the point in getting up in the mornin'?

The craic.

Frank Bullitt

Saipanne wrote: »

No, its just that certain brands of Christianity demand a literal interpretation of the bible. Therefore, anything that contradicts it simply must be wrong. No matter how ridiculous. Such as a man living in a whales stomach. Really. Look it up.

Oh I have, and therein lies the issues I have with the bible or any religions belief.

Some friends of mine here in Canada say that part of the bible is not meant to be taken literally, and its only figurative. Then why in the world is it in the bible in the first place?

Not only that, the idea that we are created by some celestial entity is almost a horrible and cruel thought. It undermines our complete existence to its very core, and we are bound by an act of evil to adhere to it.

Claims that is also moral are also laughable, is it moral to believe that we can be forgiven by the punishment of another person? But then not take away our responsibilities so we are then bound by this. This, is inherantly evil to its core.

I might be digressing from the evolution discussion, but the evidence now for evolution is firm, and gets strong with each new discovery around the world. Science has an edit feature built into and will gladly change its stand if something new comes along, is peer reviewed and is then approved as a scientific theory (within this context, its not a hunch like most people use the word "theory"). Science has no dogma attached to it like religion, there is no underlying mission to force a belief on people with no proof, or with the use of faith. It should also be pointed out that science does not claim to know all, or know how indeed, life started on this planet. And why is it so important for people to know about the origins? To me it is far more beautiful and interesting, to know that we now know a whole lot less about a whole lot more. That there are so many galaxies and planets around us, and to discover more and more.

I like the idea of living my life as if I just don't know enough, and the offer of a certain creation and afterlife is nothing I am interested in.

I was brought up as a Catholic, and I don't see it as a bad thing. I have at least learned now that it is nothing that has helped me, and since I have begun to read more, and think more for myself, everything has changed.

Those who "deny" evolution or choose to believe that we are created, in my opinion are still afraid. And those who start from a point of faith are already on the back foot. Extraordinary claims don't necessarily require extraordinary evidence, they merely require evidence.

We now have quite a lot for evolution. Deny it all you like, its true weather you "believe" or not.

J C

steddyeddy wrote: »

There's a girl studying science in college who doesn't believe in evolution. I seriously think she should be denied a degree. It's simply not good enough.

That would be religious discrimination ... and I thought we had left all that behind in the Middle Ages!!!

I'm sure that she accepts that 'evolution' in the sense of the Natural Selection of pre-existing genetic diversity occurs i.e. all the really important stuff that impacts on the study of antibiotic resistance, animal and plant breeding and all the other important 'real world' stuff.

I wouldn't blame her, if she didn't believe that pondkind 'evolved' into mankind over billions of years via selected mistakes and mutagenic damage ... and other faith-based stuff like that.

Frank Bullitt

J C wrote: »

That would be religious discrimination ... and I thought we had left all that behind in the Middle Ages!!!

I'm sure that she accepts that 'evolution' in the sense of the Natural Selection of pre-existing genetic diversity occurs i.e. all the really important stuff that impacts on the study of antibiotic resistance, animal and plant breeding and all the other important 'real world' stuff.

I wouldn't blame her, if she didn't believe that pondkind 'evolved' into mankind over billions of years via selected mistakes and mutagenic damage ... and other faith-based stuff like that.

Firstly, it is not religious discrimination, her choosing to not believe in Evolution will only retard her career in science. Unless of course she wants to be a "creation scientist", who pull facts out of thin air with no evidence, and use pure conjecture.

Care to expand on the highlighted part above? The use of the word faith is interesting...

J C

Gintonious wrote: »

Firstly, it is not religious discrimination, her choosing to not believe in Evolution will only retard her career in science. Unless of course she wants to be a "creation scientist", who pull facts out of thin air with no evidence, and use pure conjecture.

Care to expand on the highlighted part above? The use of the word faith is interesting...

'Evolution' is a word that can mean many different things.
It is a fact that Natural Selection (and indeed Artificial and Sexual Selection) can select various phenotypes produced via the recombination of pre-existing genetic diversity. All the important 'real world' stuff, belongs to this category of 'evolution' and I agree with you that somebody who didn't accept or study the research into this type of 'evolution' would have a very deficient scientific education and a poor career expectancy, especially within the Bio-medical and Biological Sciences.

However, the belief that pondkind evolved into mankind over billions of years via selected mistakes and mutagenic damage ... is neither evidentially nor logically based ... and thus falls within the realm of faith ... and 'origins' stories.
Not believing or believing this has no effect on the real world appliance of science.

PopePalpatine

Brace yourselves lads, if you thought this thread had gone full retard already, you ain't seen nothing yet.

gladrags

Calibos wrote: »

A bit o' Bertrand Russell is always appropriate in threads like this,

I half read his biography,he lived as he preached.

M5

How does this rubbish still exist in 2014?

According to the Bible the stars are holes in the sky, the earth is flat and remarkably the level of scientific knowledge is roughly that of a middle eastern goat farmer from the time, and yet people believe in their sky fairy!

And don't get me started on biblical morality!

It was written by goat herders for goat herders.

PopePalpatine

M5 wrote: »

How does this rubbish still exist in 2014?

According to the Bible the stars are holes in the sky, the earth is flat and remarkably the level of scientific knowledge is roughly that of a middle eastern goat farmer from the time, and yet people believe in their sky fairy!

And don't get me started on biblical morality!

It was written by goat herders for goat herders.

It's incredibly hard to convince adults with facts when they've been smothered with bullshit in their childhood.

M5

PopePalpatine wrote: »

It's incredibly hard to convince adults with facts when they've been smothered with bullshit in their childhood.

That I can understand, I should be directing my vitriol elsewhere. I find this kind of thread maddening, and should stay away I guess

catallus

M5 wrote: »

It was written by goat herders for goat herders.

I'd bet you've never even read the bible without some annotated guide by some internet theophobe who revels in their pseudo-intellectual wankery.

To dismiss the bible is to ignore 3000 years of culture.

gladrags

Calibos wrote: »

A bit o' Bertrand Russell is always appropriate in threads like this,

I half read his biography,he lived as he preached.

M5

catallus wrote: »

I'd bet you've never even read the bible without some annotated guide by some internet theophobe who revels in their pseudo-intellectual wankery.

To dismiss the bible is to ignore 3000 years of culture.

I did, at least 3 times, on my own, with no annotation but my own. Went to a Catholic school.

Of course because I see the genocide, rape and stonings as offensive, hence I dint read it properly?

3000 years of culture? You mean 3000 years of indoctrination of children, inquisitions, burning at the steak, impeding science, and more recently abuse of children? If that's your culture you can keep it tyvm

Frank Bullitt

J C wrote: »

'Evolution' is a word that can mean many different things.
It is a fact that Natural Selection (and indeed Artificial and Sexual Selection) can select various phenotypes produced via the recombination of pre-existing genetic diversity. All the important 'real world' stuff, belongs to this category of 'evolution' and I agree with you that somebody who didn't accept or study the research into this type of 'evolution' would have a very deficient scientific education and a poor career expectancy, especially within the Bio-medical and Biological Sciences.

However, the belief that pondkind evolved into mankind over billions of years via selected mistakes and mutagenic damage ... is neither evidentially nor logically based ... and thus falls within the realm of faith ... and 'origins' stories.
Not believing or believing this has no effect on the real world appliance of science.

And I am guessing that you have some solid evidence to back this up, peer reviewed, experiment based and accepted by actual scientists, and not creation lunatics.

PopePalpatine

catallus wrote: »

I'd bet you've never even read the bible without some annotated guide by some internet theophobe who revels in their pseudo-intellectual wankery.

To dismiss the bible is to ignore 3000 years of culture.

Yeah, I'd rather dismiss stoning women for adultery, stoning homosexuals for just being homosexuals, owning slaves, taking female prisoners-of-war as your own personal sex slave etc. Piss off back under Poe Bridge.

Frank Bullitt

Culture? In the bible? Is that a joke?

M5

catallus wrote: »

I'd bet you've never even read the bible without some annotated guide by some internet theophobe who revels in their pseudo-intellectual wankery.

To dismiss the bible is to ignore 3000 years of culture.

Oh and most Christians won't have read it front to back either, they will have had the cherry picked verses read and annotated for them by their local pusher

catallus

M5 wrote: »

I did, at least 3 times, on my own, with no annotation but my own. Went to a Catholic school.

Of course because I see the genocide, rape and stonings as offensive, hence I dint read it properly?

3000 years of culture? You mean 3000 years of indoctrination of children, inquisitions, burning at the steak, impeding science, and more recently abuse of children? If that's your culture you can keep it tyvm

Oh boo-hoo, bad things happen in the world, let's blame the religions, who cares all the good they did, all the people they've educated, the very fabric of moral society being dependent on its edicts, yeah sure, it's all their fault.

Such wilful ignorance is astounding.

Saipanne

catallus wrote: »

Oh boo-hoo, bad things happen in the world, let's blame the religions, who cares all the good they did, all the people they've educated, the very fabric of moral society being dependent on its edicts, yeah sure, it's all their fault.

Such wilful ignorance is astounding.

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

Boo hoo. Just a little slavery. What about all the good?

J C

PopePalpatine wrote: »

It's incredibly hard to convince adults with facts when they've been smothered with bullshit in their childhood.

I agree ... I have spent the best part of ten years trying to do so over on other threads ... with little apparent success.:p

J C

PopePalpatine wrote: »

Yeah, I'd rather dismiss stoning women for adultery, stoning homosexuals for just being homosexuals, owning slaves, taking female prisoners-of-war as your own personal sex slave etc.

... and so would I.

PopePalpatine wrote: »

Piss off back under Poe Bridge

Why?

Frank Bullitt

catallus wrote: »

Oh boo-hoo, bad things happen in the world, let's blame the religions, who cares all the good they did, all the people they've educated, the very fabric of moral society being dependent on its edicts, yeah sure, it's all their fault.

Such wilful ignorance is astounding.

The ignorance is coming from you on this. You seem to jump over the hideous evil that religion is primarily and solely responsible on this earth, but lets just list the good things then and all will be ok.

The ignorance you show here is both sinister and pathetic, the will for being self critical still hasn't reached the religious yet it seems.

catallus

Gintonious wrote: »

The ignorance is coming from you on this. You seem to jump over the hideous evil that religion is primarily and solely responsible on this earth, but lets just list the good things then and all will be ok.

The ignorance you show here is both sinister and pathetic, the will for being self critical still hasn't reached the religious yet it seems.

Are you actually having a laugh? Seriously?

Self-criticism is one of the biggest themes in any organised religion.

J C

Saipanne wrote: »

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

Boo hoo. Just a little slavery. What about all the good?

Yes, the ancient Israelites were a hard-hearted people ... living among even more hard-hearted neighbours.

M5

catallus wrote: »

Oh boo-hoo, bad things happen in the world, let's blame the religions, who cares all the good they did, all the people they've educated, the very fabric of moral society being dependent on its edicts, yeah sure, it's all their fault.

Such wilful ignorance is astounding.

Ah yes, take credit for the good stuff but disown the bad stuff. You just proved my point about cherry picking!

Lest you forget the good stuff was reserved for people who believed the bs or those who could be bribed to convert.

The stonings etc were reserved for those who voiced the slightest reservation about the good word

rozeboosje

Because evolution is about life changing to fit niches. Apes fit their niche, we fit ours.

J C

Where has the debate on Darwins theory gone?

... is it under poe bridge ... or up crap creek?:)

catallus

M5 wrote: »

Ah yes, take credit for the good stuff but disown the bad stuff. You just proved my point about cherry picking!

The only point I've proven is the one about the malicious and craven mental-acrobatics that theophobes will go to to skew their perception of not only culture but all worldly phenomena.