Darwin's theory

5uspect

What is the mathematical definition of CFSI?
Have you a peer reviewed paper detailing it?

Pherekydes

J C wrote: »

Why should I treat such impertinence with anything other than the contempt that it deserves?

You claimed you were a genius. I guess that you have no explanation, then.

That says everything about you ... and nothing about evangelists.;)

I'm not claiming that life, the universe and everything was created especially for me and mine! I'm not making dishonest claims about dating systems which I then refuse to stand over when challenged.

TTFN. Off to watch a match.

Wibbs

J C wrote: »

The one thing that Evolutionists seem incapable of 'evolving' is the basics in theory of evolution itself

Incorrect. The theory has been constantly added to since Darwin(and others) came up with it. Darwin didn't know about DNA for a start.

Again why did massive numbers of sea creatures go extinct in your flood theory? If the human population was reduced to Noah and his wife and kids where is the lack of evidence for serious inbreeding in humans? Never mind that you simply can't regenerate a species from two of its number. I suppose that's the point where people insert miracles. The theory of evolution on the other hand requires no such miracles, just evidence and more research.

J C

Canis Lupus wrote: »

I googled the text and it was in image search results. I'm not even a member of Mensa and I could do that. It's not rocket science.

I have just googled 'Mensa Acceptance Letter images' ... and 'British Mensa Acceptance Letter images' ... and 'Irish Mensa Acceptance Letter images' .... and it was only american mensa letters that came up in all three cases.

... and I have googled a section of text from the letter and the only links that google put up were to the posts on this thread on the boards.

... so please tell us exactly how you googled this image.

5uspect

Wibbs wrote: »

Incorrect. The theory has been constantly added to since Darwin(and others) came up with it. Darwin didn't know about DNA for a start.

Again why did massive numbers of sea creatures go extinct in your flood theory? If the human population was reduced to Noah and his wife and kids where is the lack of evidence for serious inbreeding in humans? Never mind that you simply can't regenerate a species from two of its number. I suppose that's the point where people insert miracles. The theory of evolution on the other hand requires no such miracles, just evidence and more research.

Lets pick a paper, any paper from here or here or here and let J C explain to us what's wrong with it.

Capt'n Midnight

Wibbs wrote: »

Then a cosmic atom exploding, the "big bang" came along(ironically given the thread, thought up by a Catholic priest) and the mounting evidence for this backed up this notion and the steady state universe faded as a working theory.

Angelo Secchi looked at the stars with a spectroscope. He showed that the sun wasn't the centre of the universe like everyone thought, it was just another star.

He was a Jesuit.

J C

Wibbs wrote: »

Incorrect. The theory has been constantly added to since Darwin(and others) came up with it. Darwin didn't know about DNA for a start.

Constantly propped up with ever increasingly implausible stories.

Wibbs wrote: »

Again why did massive numbers of sea creatures go extinct in your flood theory?

You are correct that there are billions of fossilized large sea creatures perfectly preserved in billions of tonnes of sedimentary rock hundreds of feet thick. Only water-based tectonic processes operating catastrophically (as distinct from gradually) on a worldwide scale could generate such quantities of sediment and deposit it fast enough to produce these fossil beds - that have a worldwide distribution.

Wibbs wrote: »

If the human population was reduced to Noah and his wife and kids where is the lack of evidence for serious inbreeding in humans? Never mind that you simply can't regenerate a species from two of its number.

Humans and other creatures were Created perfect and with significant inbuilt genetic diversity. This diversity has declined since the Fall (and continues to do so). It has declined via loss of diversity due to selection (pedigree animals being an extreme example of this in action) and it has degraded via mutagenesis to the point where all creatures carry hundreds of lethal genes (that are masked in the recessive state, in most cases).
Up to the Flood and for some years afterwards, genetics hadn't declined to the point where there was significant risk of uncovering lethal and semi-lethal traits by breeding closely related organisms ... and that is why ADAM's children married each other ... and Noah's grandchildren did likewise.

This is no longer the case ... and hasn't been for thousands of years ... and that is why marriage of people with close consanguinity is illegal, for example.

J C

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Angelo Secchi looked at the stars with a spectroscope. He showed that the sun wasn't the centre of the universe like everyone thought, it was just another star.

He was a Jesuit.

It goes to show that people of faith, like myself, do observe the evidence objectively and do make logical reasoned conclusions based on it ... without engaging in emotional name-calling outbursts, like those from the Atheists on this thread.

kingchess

I wonder how many scientists who are not followers of the bible/koran believe in Creation theory??are there any experts who believe that theory who are members of ,for example, the hindu faith,or of any other faith??

Canis Lupus

J C wrote: »

I have just googled 'Mensa Acceptance Letter images' ... and 'British Mensa Acceptance Letter images' ... and 'Irish Mensa Acceptance Letter images' .... and it was only american mensa letters that came up in all three cases.

... and I have googled a section of text from the letter and the only links that google put up were to the posts on this thread on the boards.

... so please tell us exactly how you googled this image.

Please tell us?

Yikes JC... 'My name is Legion: for we are many' is it?

Anyway Mensa man, here you go if it helps all of you to sleep:Link

smcgiff

J C wrote: »

Constantly propped up with ever increasingly implausible stories.

You are correct that there are billions of fossilized large sea creatures perfectly preserved in billions of tonnes of sedimentary rock hundreds of feet thick. Only water-based tectonic processes operating catastrophically (as distinct from gradually) on a worldwide scale could generate such quantities of sediment and deposit it fast enough to produce these fossil beds - that have a worldwide distribution.

Humans and other creatures were Created perfect and with significant inbuilt genetic diversity. This diversity has declined since the Fall (and continues to do so). It has declined via loss of diversity due to selection (pedigree animals being an extreme example of this in action) and it has degraded via mutagenesis to the point where all creatures carry hundreds of lethal genes (that are masked in the recessive state, in most cases).
Up to the Flood and for some years afterwards, genetics hadn't declined to the point where there was significant risk of uncovering lethal and semi-lethal traits by breeding closely related organisms ... and that is why ADAM's children married each other ... and Noah's grandchildren did likewise.

This is no longer the case ... and hasn't been for thousands of years ... and that is why marriage of people with close consanguinity is illegal, for example.

Fascinating in a disturbing, beautiful mind kind of way.

endacl

J C wrote: »

Constantly propped up with ever increasingly implausible stories.

You are correct that there are billions of fossilized large sea creatures perfectly preserved in billions of tonnes of sedimentary rock hundreds of feet thick. Only water-based tectonic processes operating catastrophically (as distinct from gradually) on a worldwide scale could generate such quantities of sediment and deposit it fast enough to produce these fossil beds - that have a worldwide distribution.

Humans and other creatures were Created perfect and with significant inbuilt genetic diversity. This diversity has declined since the Fall (and continues to do so). It has declined via loss of diversity due to selection (pedigree animals being an extreme example of this in action) and it has degraded via mutagenesis to the point where all creatures carry hundreds of lethal genes (that are masked in the recessive state, in most cases).
Up to the Flood and for some years afterwards, genetics hadn't declined to the point where there was significant risk of uncovering lethal and semi-lethal traits by breeding closely related organisms ... and that is why ADAM's children married each other ... and Noah's grandchildren did likewise.

This is no longer the case ... and hasn't been for thousands of years ... and that is why marriage of people with close consanguinity is illegal, for example.

You have actually outdone yourself with that one! Fabulous. If I was trolling, with a library full of nonsense to hand, and a team of researchers, I don't think I could have come up with anything to match that.

Edgarfrndly

J C wrote: »

Humans and other creatures were Created perfect and with significant inbuilt genetic diversity.

You just don't understand biology, do you? Diversity isn't something that a single individual possesses. It is the scale of difference between an entire population of people.

J C

Canis Lupus wrote: »

Please tell us?

Yikes JC... 'My name is Legion: for we are many' is it?

Ye said this not me ... I have a cure for that - do you want it?

Canis Lupus wrote: »

Anyway Mensa man, here you go if it helps all of you to sleep:Link

Followed your link ... but no British Mensa Letter in the images provided.
... so where/how did you get the link?

J C

Edgarfrndly wrote: »

You just don't understand biology, do you? Diversity isn't something that a single individual possesses. It is the scale of difference between an entire population of people.

Some individuals have wide diversity in their genes ... and others, like pedigree animals, have very narrow diversity.

For example, two genetically diverse creatures of the Dog Kind gave rise to all Dog breeds and species today.
... whereas pedigree poodles can only produce more pedigree poodles.:)

J C

smcgiff wrote: »

Fascinating in a disturbing, beautiful mind kind of way.

Could you be more specific?

AtomicHorror

J C wrote: »

As I'm a member of Mensa, that would be as impossible ... as spontaneous evolution.:cool:

Mensa's entry requirement is 98th percentile of the population based on IQ scores. That makes about 140 million people eligible globally. Ask yourself why Mensa only has 120,000 members.

The need for validation is the second, unspoken entry requirement.

Canis Lupus

J C wrote: »

Ye said this not me ... I have a cure for that - do you want it?


Followed your link ... but no British Mensa Letter in the images provided.
... so where/how did you get the link?

It's right there in the image search results but then if this and other evolution threads is anything to go by I appreciate you have selective vision and are probably mentally blocking it out unknowingly. :rolleyes:

endacl

J C wrote: »

Followed your link ... but no British Mensa Letter in the images provided.
... so where/how did you get the link?

Smokescreen?

Anyway, as was pointed out earlier, you do avoid trickyish questions. So...

In the absence if a primitive creation myth to support, would creation 'science' exist. Just a simple yes or no to start with. I'll prod you for details after that. It's a simple question, but in the context of the *ahem* debate, it's quite an important one.

In the interests of moving in, let's just say that I for one accept you're a genius and move on.

Wibbs

J C wrote: »

You are correct that there are billions of fossilized large sea creatures perfectly preserved in billions of tonnes of sedimentary rock hundreds of feet thick. Only water-based tectonic processes operating catastrophically (as distinct from gradually) on a worldwide scale could generate such quantities of sediment and deposit it fast enough to produce these fossil beds - that have a worldwide distribution.

Nope and we can see such processes going on today. In any event you didn't answer my question. If whales and sharks survive this "flood" why ichthyosaurs, ammonites, to name but two of a legion don't? Or trilobites for that matter. They were around for a looong time and occupied every niche in the ocean, from the shallows to the stygian depths. If any creature was to survive a "great flood" they should have.

Humans and other creatures were Created perfect and with significant inbuilt genetic diversity.

So untrue to be laughable. This house of cards is beyond shaky.

This diversity has declined since the Fall (and continues to do so).

By what process and for what reason? So this middle eastern god purposely designed a weak system, or is punishing all life?

It has declined via loss of diversity due to selection (pedigree animals being an extreme example of this in action) and it has degraded via mutagenesis to the point where all creatures carry hundreds of lethal genes (that are masked in the recessive state, in most cases).

Oh man this is good.

Up to the Flood and for some years afterwards, genetics hadn't declined to the point where there was significant risk of uncovering lethal and semi-lethal traits by breeding closely related organisms ... and that is why ADAM's children married each other ... and Noah's grandchildren did likewise.

Oh man you could not make this sheer bloodyminded lunacy up. :pac::pac: For a start in the original text that you so cling to Adam and his missus only had sons. Bit of a fault there in the old creator plan. Maybe He went digging around for spare ribs again. Still when your fundy has to paper over the chasms of logic by bringing in incest you know all bets are off. :pac::pac:

J C wrote: »

Some individuals have wide diversity in their genes ... and others, like pedigree animals, have very narrow diversity.

For example, two genetically diverse creatures of the Dog Kind gave rise to all Dog breeds and species today.
... whereas pedigree poodles can only produce more pedigree poodles.:)

Again your basic scientific knowledge is sorely lacking. For one example, wild wolf populations often have less diversity than domestic dogs. Though it makes sense that your basic scientific knowledge is lacking, because otherwise your house of cards would crash down in most areas of discussion.

Again what happened to ichthyosaurs? And again how come there were other types of humans before we came along? In your timeline and theology how do you begin to explain Neandertals and Homo Erectus and the like "before the fall"? Was Adam a Neandertal or an Erectus? Oh and those folks were around with some overlap with us modern humans, which muddies the water(no pun) even more. I'd love to see how your creationists square that circle.

Doctor Jimbob

Hehehe, 'erectus'.

5uspect

Nothing then? Or would you rather ignore me?

Vinnie L

Poster JC, why do you not believe in theistic evolution ?
There is no conflict between true Christian faith and true science.
One does not contradict the other.
The truth is just the truth.

endacl

5uspect wrote: »

Nothing then? Or would you rather ignore me?

It's Sunday dude. No arguin' on the sabbath!

smcgiff

Wibbs wrote: »

Nope and we can see such processes going on today. In any event you didn't answer my question. If whales and sharks survive this "flood" why ichthyosaurs, ammonites, to name but two of a legion don't? Or trilobites for that matter. They were around for a looong time and occupied every niche in the ocean, from the shallows to the stygian depths. If any creature was to survive a "great flood" they should have.

So untrue to be laughable. This house of cards is beyond shaky. By what process and for what reason? So this middle eastern god purposely designed a weak system, or is punishing all life? Oh man this is good.
Oh man you could not make this sheer bloodyminded lunacy up. :pac::pac: For a start in the original text that you so cling to Adam and his missus only had sons. Bit of a fault there in the old creator plan. Maybe He went digging around for spare ribs again. Still when your fundy has to paper over the chasms of logic by bringing in incest you know all bets are off. :pac::pac:



Again your basic scientific knowledge is sorely lacking. For one example, wild wolf populations often have less diversity than domestic dogs. Though it makes sense that your basic scientific knowledge is lacking, because otherwise your house of cards would crash down in most areas of discussion.

Again what happened to ichthyosaurs? And again how come there were other types of humans before we came along? In your timeline and theology how do you begin to explain Neandertals and Homo Erectus and the like "before the fall"? Was Adam a Neandertal or an Erectus? Oh and those folks were around with some overlap with us modern humans, which muddies the water(no pun) even more. I'd love to see how your creationists square that circle.

If true to form JC will invent a straw man to divert the thread, such as a slight he has received, rather than debate the above.

Squeedily Spooch

The more JC tries to defend his utterly laughable "science" the funnier this thread gets. Creation Science simply doesn't exist, it's not real science. Science has evidence, observable data and results and changing theories based on available data. Creationism has a mythology book at it's core. Without the book the science just isn't plausible (well it's not plausible anyway). Science doesn't need myth and backstory to work.

I do chuckle every time JC runs out the zoo from goo line. As if the idea that life came from some primordial material is so crazy when we were magicked out of thin air by a god who doesn't seem to like us much and you mostly believe in based on the geography of your birth is the alternative.

He reminds me of a guy I went to school with who was a notorious bull****ter, who would spin lies upon lies and when called on them would either slink away for a few days or just try turn the argument back on people calling him out on his bull****, it's the same type of dishonest debate you see on here.

smcgiff

Vinnie L wrote: »

flict between true Christian faith and true science.

Depends on what you think is true Christian faith.

JC believes the earth is less than 10,000 years old and the Flood and Genesis are not allegorical, but actual events.

It's hard to square that with a lot of science.

Squeedily Spooch

I'm almost afraid to ask why he could think the earth is 10,000 years old when we know it's not...

smcgiff

Squeedily Spooch wrote: »

I'm almost afraid to ask why he could think the earth is 10,000 years old when we know it's not...

Extrapolation from the lifespans in the bible, starting with Adam born on the seventh day of creation.

endacl

Squeedily Spooch wrote: »

I'm almost afraid to ask why he could think the earth is 10,000 years old when we know it's not...

He only has one book in his shelf.