Non-payment over freelance work

pedronomix

It is a jungle out there. A lack of smarts, as usual, ends up in tears. If the OP can get a cash value on revenge, fine, if not, just learn from it and DO NOT repeat the mistake.

Qualitymark

pedronomix wrote: »

It is a jungle out there. A lack of smarts, as usual, ends up in tears. If the OP can get a cash value on revenge, fine, if not, just learn from it and DO NOT repeat the mistake.

Not revenge, but correct payment for work done, as is one's right.

OP, what's happened to you is very unusual. I worked for one person like this in a lifetime of freelancing (admittedly, mostly for established companies), and the person who stiffed me and everyone else who worked for his company eventually paid me, after many months of varied tactics.

I had originally tried to get together with the others who'd been stiffed - journalists, web designers, etc - but they weren't into it; as far as I know, I was the only one who got paid.

pedronomix

Qualitymark wrote: »

Not revenge, but correct payment for work done, as is one's right.

OP, what's happened to you is very unusual. I worked for one person like this in a lifetime of freelancing (admittedly, mostly for established companies), and the person who stiffed me and everyone else who worked for his company eventually paid me, after many months of varied tactics.

I had originally tried to get together with the others who'd been stiffed - journalists, web designers, etc - but they weren't into it; as far as I know, I was the only one who got paid.

Start up, gone tits up, not even remotely similar. OP made a booboo, no way to fix it now and nothing to be gained by flogging a dead horse other than wasting more time and effort best spent on earning!

Qualitymark

pedronomix wrote: »

Start up, gone tits up, not even remotely similar. OP made a booboo, no way to fix it now and nothing to be gained by flogging a dead horse other than wasting more time and effort best spent on earning!

Hmmmaybe. If they're getting funded…

pedronomix

They are gonzo and may well be a new legal entity now. OP would need to be very wary of trying some of the cr*p suggested on here unless they fancy exposing themselves.

pedroeibar1

pedronomix wrote: »

They are gonzo and may well be a new legal entity now. OP would need to be very wary of trying some of the cr*p suggested on here unless they fancy exposing themselves.

+ 1.
I gave up on this thread when I saw some of the stuff that was given credibility.

Marenghi

Not sure what the etiquette is on reviving dead threads. But thought I'd give an update to this.

I never got paid after, tried following them up but constantly got the brush off, and couldn't confront them in person as they changed their place of business.

I did however read about them in the paper few days ago. They seem to be doing quite well working from the article it says they now have employed twice as many employees as when I worked for them and have raised almost half million from angel investors, and look to raise another million.

Gloomtastic!

Marenghi wrote: »

Not sure what the etiquette is on reviving dead threads. But thought I'd give an update to this.

I never got paid after, tried following them up but constan tly got the brush off, and couldn't confront them in person as they changed their place of business.

I did however read about them in the paper few days ago. They seem to be doing quite well working from the article it says they now have employed twice as many employees as when I worked for them and have raised almost half million from angel investors, and look to raise another million.

Sounds like you tried a little bit, then gave up. Exactly what they were hoping for.

I'm tempted to get the money for you, in exchange for 50% of the invoice. PM me if you are interested.

smash

Marenghi wrote: »

I was to be paid a salary to be discussed when investment was found and also stock options.

Let it go OP. This sentence alone would have had me running away from them before the project even started. Even if you went back now, how do you think the discussions would go?

Qualitymark

Isn't it time, though, for the Small Claims Court to be widened to cover debts for work done? It seems illogical and unjust that it can't be used for this.

pedroeibar1

Qualitymark wrote: »

Isn't it time, though, for the Small Claims Court to be widened to cover debts for work done? It seems illogical and unjust that it can't be used for this.

No. The Small Claims Court (SCC) was set up primarily for consumers/buyers rather than suppliers and its jurisdiction extends only to €2k. It’s purpose is to fast-track small cases “outside” the regular system and stop the District courts (DC) getting clogged up. Even if the OP’s case had merit and could come under SCC it most probably would be transferred to the DC because of its complexity.

I don't see the point in resurrecting this thread as nothing new has been added by the OP, who has not indicated the amount claimed to be owed – that would have a bearing on any action to take. How serious is the OP when s/he writes “ …..couldn't confront them in person as they changed their place of business.”?? I’ve actually gone 6k miles on more than one occasion to successfully collect a debt. I did so because I knew it was worthwhile, I had everything (documentation, all the facts, local law knowledge) in order. From the info provided to date I strongly suspect that the OP has no hope of “proving” the debt is actually due, has incomplete/no paperwork and as a result even a trainee solicitor would advise to forget it. Taking legal action on a case like this (based on the info) would probably leave OP looking at a bill for the costs of the other side in addition to his/her own.

Everyone is taking the side of the OP. Perhaps s/he screwed up on the job/services provided and got thrown out? How many of us have fired service providers over shoddy work and (justifiably) disputed payment “due”? (I have!)

beauf

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

... Everyone is taking the side of the OP. Perhaps s/he screwed up on the job/services provided and got thrown out? How many of us have fired service providers over shoddy work and (justifiably) disputed payment “due”? (I have!)

Because you have to base on the facts given, and not just make up stuff. There's no indication about firing, or shoddy work.

However its a very familiar story to anyone in creative and software related industries. Someone with little business experience, tries to do freelancing, or work for a start up and learns very quickly if you are not professional, in terms of agreeing contracts, staged payments, and managing expectations, its usually doesn't work out. Its usual for hard nosed business people to take advantage of such inexperience, and avoid paying for work done.

Its a story as old as the hills.

But I will agree that it will be almost impossible for the OP to recover any money from this situation. Its a hard lesson to learn. But its important to learn this lesson. It why most experience developers, creatives, will be very dismissive of most start up, and freelancing offers of work without staged payments. As most of them will not pay. You see endless examples of this on these forums. Much of this work, is like asking a painter to paint your house, but not tell them the colour, but to keep painting till you decide the colour you like. Then refuse to pay them after weeks of work, because you want a different colour. No other industry works like that, so people starting out, shouldn't do it either. It devalues you and your industry.

If you want to work freelance, do a start a business course first. Something that teaches you the basics of running business.

Graham

Marenghi wrote: »

Not sure what the etiquette is on reviving dead threads. But thought I'd give an update to this.

I never got paid after, tried following them up but constantly got the brush off, and couldn't confront them in person as they changed their place of business.

I did however read about them in the paper few days ago. They seem to be doing quite well working from the article it says they now have employed twice as many employees as when I worked for them and have raised almost half million from angel investors, and look to raise another million.

OP, can you tell if they're still using any of the code you developed for them?

You would need to take proper legal advice but the thought of pending litigation for copyright infringement interfering with their fundraising may make them more willing to settle with you.

Ctrl Alt Delete

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Your a journalist are you commander? Why are they going to laugh at a letter like that please explain?
Im talking from experience and have used this method when people ripped me off as a young business person. More then once I might add, so you can laugh all you want but its effective and gets results.
Not only that but I have in fact written and published an article on a companies bad practices for a business magazine. Editors welcome this kind of stuff, if your facts are straight you have proof and your not just a whining ex employee.

On the court thing, I worked for a guy years ago who owed me 400 euro. I filed a claim against him for unpaid wages, and received a court date, went to court and received a decision in my favour. Maybe I'm mixing up what kind of court it was, I was only 20 at the time and can't remember it too clearly but that is what happened, I never got the money owed because no one enforced the decision.

EDIT: doing a bit of googling it looks like it was the Labour Court

I write for one of the main national papers and I can tell you for full on certainity your letter would be both ignored and not published for a multitude of reasons some of which were mentioned above

Ctrl Alt Delete

Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »

I write for one of the main national papers and I can tell you for full on certainity your letter would be both ignored and not published for a multitude of reasons some of which were mentioned above

Well I can tell you that I used this tactic to get paid many years ago and it worked. So full certainty of it not getting published is neither here nor there. And with todays social media the threat of a white wash on facebook, twitter etc would be a lot more damaging to a companies brand then paying off whatever small fee it might have been. Maybe the company owner would laugh at the threat and tell you to go publish it, but its a tool to use and it worked for me.

pedroeibar1

@Beauf – everybody is ad idem on what should have been done before the work commenced; that is not an issue. The more sensible posts are reticent because after four pages and with (only) four posts the OP has provided little concrete info, no detail of the sum involved and several contradictions. (“I exited early in exchange for payment up to what I've done.”)

@El Rifle – I disagree with you on threatening a debtor with “media”, it is a most dangerous tactic and usually does not work and if anything goes awry you would be wiped out.

If the content of the four posts is an example of how the OP operates I have strong grounds for suspecting the quality of the services provided or, perhaps, having seen the company’s success, OP wants a second bite at the cherry!

I’m repeating myself when I say that without concrete info this is a BS thread.