Budget 2015 [De wan an' only thread!]

crannglas

ghostdancer wrote: »

no, they're given rent allowance which goes towards paying for housing.

they are not "given houses".

Does that make it better?

Fr. Ned

crannglas wrote: »

Does that make it better?

Or less of a drain on the taxpayer?

AlekSmart

miss no stars wrote: »

I don't understand the concept of a Christmas bonus for those on the dole. Why? If you're not working you should be glad that the state is giving you free money at all. Don't give free money for nothing and let the money stay with those who've worked hard to EARN their money. The Christmas bonus doesn't bring money into he economy, it takes it away from the people who have the most right to it (i.e. those who've earned the money that is being taken away from them in tax to give to those who do sweet f all).

Harumph. Lots of things that need that money FAR more than Christmas bonuses for the dole.

+1 Miss no stars...It looks like we're rushing headlong back into the valley of the Magic Money Fairy.

crannglas

miss no stars wrote: »

I don't understand the concept of a Christmas bonus for those on the dole. Why? If you're not working you should be glad that the state is giving you free money at all. Don't give free money for nothing and let the money stay with those who've worked hard to EARN their money. The Christmas bonus doesn't bring money into he economy, it takes it away from the people who have the most right to it (i.e. those who've earned the money that is being taken away from them in tax to give to those who do sweet f all).

Harumph. Lots of things that need that money FAR more than Christmas bonuses for the dole.

You forgot a couple of reason s why they should get help. One. Most had jobs and paid towards taxes in the country in about ten different ways. Other is people seem to forget that loans from EU and UK. Are just that loans and we pay it back so nothing to be grateful for. Thirdly why should children suffer in the meant to be most magically happy time of year for a child because of small amount who don't want to work. Especially when we are bailing out Europe and paying money to criminal's?

Henlars67

I will never ever figure out how people in full time employment could possibly be jealous of people on welfare, but I've seen dozens of people on facebook and twitter who appear to be so, and then I log on here and there's loads of them on this thread.

As well as the tiny minority of 'lazy scroungers' getting a bonus, one will also go to those on disability, pensioners, terminally ill people, others on illness benefit, people who worked all their lives and have recently been made redundant.

There is something seriously wrong with somebody who begrudges the poorest and most vulnerable getting an extra 40 or 50 euros a year.

shruikan2553

yesss, still have to pay full water charges bill for being a student. Im surprised they dont just punch us in the face every morning with all the love we get.

Henlars67 wrote: »

I will never ever figure out how people in full time employment could possibly be jealous of people on welfare, but I've seen dozens of people on facebook and twitter who appear to be so, and then I log on here and there's loads of them on this thread.

As well as the tiny minority of 'lazy scroungers' getting a bonus, one will also go to those on disability, pensioners, terminally ill people, others on illness benefit, people who worked all their lives and have recently been made redundant.

There is something seriously wrong with somebody who begrudges the poorest and most vulnerable getting an extra 40 or 50 euros a year.

Wait, whos turn is it to be the most vulnerable in society this week? Think it was the homeless last week.

Bannasidhe

leanonme wrote: »

I was unemployed for 9 months, not long term unemployed but unemployed for a long time. I know when I was looking for work that I applied for on average 20-30 jobs a month in my field. Of those applications bar two everyone of them required a CV, some a CV and an application form, and the two just the application form, but of all those jobs I applied for I think around 5 were aplications which I had to post the rest were emails.

An email to an employer/company in its self is proof of an application sent in. All I needed to do was print the email and that was proof for the social welfare.

Depends on the sector.

Retail is shockingly bad for not responding. Cousin of mine is a manager in Heatons and used to make a genuine effort but simply doesn't have the time. she used to be a manager in Dunnes and there the CVs were 'filed' in the bin.

crannglas

Henlars67 wrote: »

I will never ever figure out how people in full time employment could possibly be jealous of people on welfare, but I've seen dozens of people on facebook and twitter who appear to be so, and then I log on here and there's loads of them on this thread.

As well as the tiny minority of 'lazy scroungers' getting a bonus, one will also go to those on disability, pensioners, terminally ill people, others on illness benefit, people who worked all their lives and have recently been made redundant.

There is something seriously wrong with somebody who begrudges the poorest and most vulnerable getting an extra 40 or 50 euros a year.

They would gladly go back to the days when the poor were stuck in those wooden things and rotten fruit thrown at them.

sashafierce

This post has been deleted.

dub_skav

crannglas wrote: »

They would gladly go back to the days when the poor were stuck in those wooden things and rotten fruit thrown at them.

Stocks. Funnily enough a different kind of stocks had us in the sh1ts, which we're just now crawling out of

Bannasidhe

FloatingVoter wrote: »

I'm not a qualified chef but I've seen a full Turkey last a family of three a good ten days including sandwiches, salads etc. Until you're sick of the sight of the thing and the cat is threatening to leave. Either myself or before me the old man always had a "knack" of winning the things in pub draws.

My 82 year old Dad is barred from raffles and card games where turkey is the prize as he bloody well wins most of the time.

crannglas

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Depends on the sector.

Retail is shockingly bad for not responding. Cousin of mine is a manager in Heatons and used to make a genuine effort but simply doesn't have the time. she used to be a manager in Dunnes and there the CVs were 'filed' in the bin.

Happens in my job. My boss keeps telling me to bin their cv's. I feel genuinely sick every time.

crannglas

dub_skav wrote: »

Stocks. Funnily enough a different kind of stocks had us in the sh1ts, which we're just now crawling out of

Thank you : ) couldn't remember what they were called. Funnily enough not much difference is there.

miss no stars

crannglas wrote: »

You forgot a couple of reason s why they should get help. One. Most had jobs and paid towards taxes in the country in about ten different ways. Other is people seem to forget that loans from EU and UK. Are just that loans and we pay it back so nothing to be grateful for. Thirdly why should children suffer in the meant to be most magically happy time of year for a child because of small amount who don't want to work. Especially when we are bailing out Europe and paying money to criminal's?

1. They once had jobs. Great. How about allowing them to structure their job seeker's benefit so that they can take an extra month or half month of their own contributions at Christmas? That sounds fair to me. If their JSB has run out well then it's not from their own contributions anymore is it?

2. The tax payers are paying back the loans, not the people on the dole. Giving more money to people on the dole means that those working have to pay more loans back. We don't have it to give it!

3. You're right - why should the children of hard working parents who barely get to see them because they're working hours upon hours of overtime - for free because that's now the norm - just to keep their job and keep a roof over their head... Why should they suffer at Christmas cause their parents have nothing thanks to it all being taken in tax to give to people who aren't working?

I don't know where the idea that there's loads of money to piss away came from. I really don't. It's not there - the country is borrowing to give money away for free. How about don't borrow as much and don't have to pay back as much. Real recovery faster :eek:

Or how about using that money in a productive manner... I dunno maybe sort out the current homelessness crisis where working people are being priced out of the rental market ???

tharmor

Only thing people got is €5 for having kids !!

ghostdancer

crannglas wrote: »

Does that make it better?

Fr. Ned wrote: »

Or less of a drain on the taxpayer?

it makes what was stated incorrect.

ghostdancer

miss no stars wrote: »

3. You're right - why should the children of hard working parents who barely get to see them because they're working hours upon hours of overtime - for free because that's now the norm - just to keep their job and keep a roof over their head... Why should they suffer at Christmas cause their parents have nothing thanks to it all being taken in tax to give to people who aren't working?

they don't have nothing.

they have far more than people who aren't working.

and as of today, they have even more.

and that increase today is far more than the extra €40 that people on welfare have been given.

Fr. Ned

ghostdancer wrote: »

it makes what was stated incorrect.

You're being pedantic, you know what he meant.

Bannasidhe

crannglas wrote: »

I will not in any shape or form go into the ins and outs of how economic migrants get housing etc. Oh no wait I will since you think ignorant people only believe this. Economic migrants arrive on Ireland claim asylum. They when refused appeal. In turn while on appeal are entitled to rent allowance and can get council houses. Along with welfare. However not allowed work even if they wanted to.

Gee - wonder what all those people in Direct Provision Centres are doing in there so...

By 'economic' migrants do you mean like all those Irish people who have gone to the U.S./Canada/U.K/Australia etc for 'economic' reasons? Some of them are even there legally...

I moved to the UK as an 'economic' migrant in the 80s - they gave me a council flat and dole until I found a job. There was loads of Irish there. Living in our council flats. We were even officially classed as an ethnic minority.

People claiming asylum do not get get rent allowance, dole, council houses etc. They get to live in 'Accommodation' centres whose owners are paid around 186 pw by the State and hand over under 20 euro of that to the asylum seekers. There are no cooking facilities, play facilities for children (most of whom were born in Ireland) and families share a room. One room. People have spent up to 15 years in these places waiting for a final decision.

I don't know who you are talking about but it ain't asylum seekers.

Valetta

Yeeesssss!!!!!!!

1-1

Feck the budget -:)

Bannasidhe

Stojkovic wrote: »

What ?
You hope I become a scrounger like you ?

I was out of work for 9 months once and didnt draw the dole. Got a credit union loan instead and paid it back.

Keep leaping to incorrect conclusions there sunshine

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

eagle eye wrote: »

And what has that got to do with what I said? Its an addiction.

That's no excuse, if someone was putting a heroin addiction before their family is be like wtf, or if someone was putting buying alcohol before feeding and dressing their kids I'd be like wtf.
And I'm most certainly like wtf if someone was putting smoking ahead of their family.

And that goes for choosing to buy cigarettes before the nessessities for kids.
It goes for smoking in front of your kids and making them breathe in second hand smoke.

It's no secret, even to kids, that smoking is very addictive and expensive. It's not like you're lured into it and find yourself in the midst of the unknown. And like all addictions, there's support and resources out there for those who want to quit.

KERSPLAT!

Take that Germany :cool:

miss no stars

ghostdancer wrote: »

they don't have nothing.

they have far more than people who aren't working.

and as of today, they have even more.

and that increase today is far more than the extra €40 that people on welfare have been given.

There are many working people who have less than those on welfare long term.

That should never, EVER, be possible.

Also, that extra €40 given to welfare has to be paid by someone - who do you think that is? The money fairy?

No, it's the people who work and pay tax. It's not coming out of thin air - if it's being given it's coming from somewhere and that somewhere is money borrowed to be given away for free and those borrowings have to be repaid by those who work. The idea of a Christmas bonus for welfare is absurd. Absolutely daft. A bonus is meant to be something extra in reward for a job well done. Sitting on the scratcher warrants a bonus????

FloatingVoter

John O' Shea needs a Christmas Bonus. Anybody who thinks different can pop around to Keano's house and fight his dog.

Bannasidhe

miss no stars wrote: »

I don't understand the concept of a Christmas bonus for those on the dole. Why? If you're not working you should be glad that the state is giving you free money at all. Don't give free money for nothing and let the money stay with those who've worked hard to EARN their money. The Christmas bonus doesn't bring money into he economy, it takes it away from the people who have the most right to it (i.e. those who've earned the money that is being taken away from them in tax to give to those who do sweet f all).

Harumph. Lots of things that need that money FAR more than Christmas bonuses for the dole.

'Free' as in paid PRSI?

Can I stop paying the extremely large amount of PRSI I see on my payslip so as if I become unemployed I will, apparently, get 'free' money?

Actually, I demand I pay less tax and PRSI and USC as I don't see why I should subsidise the low paid (that's anyone not paying the top rate of tax) who didn't get up off their arses and earn the qualifications I did. Damn lazy scroungers. :mad:

Of course the bonus won't go back into the economy. It will be stuffed into a hole in the mattress and not used to buy anything at all. Like Bertie's winnings on the horses.

titan18

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Now imagine what getting an extra 40 quid will mean when it comes to Xmas.

She is delighted that she now gets fuel allowance of 20 quid as it genuinely means she can put the heating on for a few hours in the evening.

40 euro means she can have turkey for Xmas dinner (inedible as she is a terrible cook)

She did have savings and got redundancy. She used those to pay down her mortgage as she didn't want arrears. She lives on 188 euro a week. She sold her car and bought a 1200 euro 11 year old banger to get to job interviews/training courses. Public transport isn't an option as she lives far from any bus routes. She sold her jewellery to get her son a wedding present.

She is unlikely to ever work again but did recently pass the test to go on the Civil Service panel so has her hopes pinned on that.

That is the reality for many of those who will be getting that 40 euro so many here are complaining about. People don't see them. They are not in the pub. Their clothes are good as they bought them in good times. They were once the high earners who paid those top rates of tax so often mentioned by the Xmas bonus begrudgers. They have never worn a trucksuit unless engaging in sports in their lives.
They didn't plan on being unemployed. It wasn't a lifestyle choice. They just got bitch slapped by circumstances.

You couldn't tell by looking at them they were unemployed at all - they look just like 'ordinary' people.

Might be a crazy idea, and it doesn't help your sister, but can we not just lower tax and make people responsible for themselves, and what might happen in the event of losing their job/sickness etc. We get to have less spending then

miss no stars

Bannasidhe wrote: »

'Free' as in paid PRSI?

Can I stop paying the extremely large amount of PRSI I see on my payslip so as if I become unemployed I will, apparently, get 'free' money?

Actually, I demand I pay less tax and PRSI and USC as I don't see why I should subsidise the low paid (that's anyone not paying the top rate of tax) who didn't get up off their arses and earn the qualifications I did. Damn lazy scroungers. :mad:

Of course the bonus won't go back into the economy. It will be stuffed into a hole in the mattress and not used to buy anything at all. Like Bertie's winnings on the horses.

If someone's on JSA they've used up their stamps... As I said, let someone restructure their JSB to have a top up payment at Christmas.

The money's just not there. It's simply not there to be giving it away as extras. Getting a bonus at Christmas isn't the purpose of PRSI. If it was, anyone who's ever paid PRSI should get a christmas bonus from the state.

Bannasidhe

miss no stars wrote: »

There are many working people who have less than those on welfare long term.

That should never, EVER, be possible.

Also, that extra €40 given to welfare has to be paid by someone - who do you think that is? The money fairy?

No, it's the people who work and pay tax. It's not coming out of thin air - if it's being given it's coming from somewhere and that somewhere is money borrowed to be given away for free and those borrowings have to be repaid by those who work. The idea of a Christmas bonus for welfare is absurd. Absolutely daft. A bonus is meant to be something extra in reward for a job well done. Sitting on the scratcher warrants a bonus????

Me.

I'm paying it.

Been paying it for decades now. No matter how high they raise the top rate tax band dammit I have been in it since I returned to Ireland in 1993.

Happy to be in a position to help those less well off.

You who begrudge the less well off a measly 40 euro - you I resent. Why the hell should I be paying a fortune in tax when you moaning minies are so damn miserably selfish that you would deprive people on 188 euro a pathetic 40 quid. Get better paying jobs you lazy sods. :mad:

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

I think there's two very different generations here. You have the older posters who know of people who worked all their lives, lost their jobs and are on the dole really trying to find a new job and get back to earning a wage.

Then you have the younger posters who know a lot of people who've never worked, never likely to work, no interest in anything resembling work and who are quite happy living at home (in a council house) with their medical cards, and being able to drink their dole.

I live in a town where 'Monday Club' is huge. There's a pub who has a dj playing music from the 80s upwards and after him a local band plays. Carling, at 3.20
a pint is what you see most people drinking, it's rough as hell, and is full of people who get paid on a Monday and are straight down to the pub.

It's a thing, look it up.

miss no stars

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Me.

I'm paying it.

Been paying it for decades now. No matter how high they raise the top rate tax band dammit I have been in it since I returned to Ireland in 1993.

Happy to be in a position to help those less well off.

You who begrudge the less well off a measly 40 euro - you I resent. Why the hell should I be paying a fortune in tax when you moaning minies are so damn miserably selfish that you would deprive people on 188 euro a pathetic 40 quid. Get better paying jobs you lazy sods. :mad:

So where would you cap it? wanna just give all your money away and the state will give everyone the exact same amount no matter how much or how little work they do?

And if you returned to Ireland in 1993 it means the debt won't be paid off by you, it'll be paid off by my generation and my kids' generation. So yeah. When this is all being put on the tab for my future to pay for, yeah, I have a right to begrudge extra being given away when we already have an EXTREMELY generous welfare system.

FloatingVoter

I saw two men on their feet for an hour delivering a budget that encompassed the "double Irish", farm relief, rental property, social housing, education and various other things that passed me by. AH has distinguished itself yet again by concentrating on one tiny well-flagged aspect of the budget. The usual one. Dole bashing.

Bannasidhe

miss no stars wrote: »

If someone's on JSA they've used up their stamps... As I said, let someone restructure their JSB to have a top up payment at Christmas.

The money's just not there. It's simply not there to be giving it away as extras. Getting a bonus at Christmas isn't the purpose of PRSI. If it was, anyone who's ever paid PRSI should get a christmas bonus from the state.

Sister paid stamps from 1975 to 2010. full-time employment.
She then paid stamps fro 2010 to 2013 - pert-time employment.
She got JSB for 9 months - grand total of 6,768 euro from 38 years of stamps.

Who knows how much tax she paid in those 38 years perhaps her and those like her should have just kept all that money for themselves not allowed the State to take it to fund the education of those who I see believe they have all the answers.

The lack of empathy and compassion and sheer judgemental BS I see being expressed on this thread fills me with revulsion. What a nasty selfish race of people us Irish seem to be.

lanos

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

Take that Germany :cool:

Please stay on topic Mr moderator

ghostdancer

miss no stars wrote: »

There are many working people who have less than those on welfare long term.

That should never, EVER, be possible.

Also, that extra €40 given to welfare has to be paid by someone - who do you think that is? The money fairy?

No, it's the people who work and pay tax. It's not coming out of thin air - if it's being given it's coming from somewhere and that somewhere is money borrowed to be given away for free and those borrowings have to be repaid by those who work. The idea of a Christmas bonus for welfare is absurd. Absolutely daft. A bonus is meant to be something extra in reward for a job well done. Sitting on the scratcher warrants a bonus????

no, there isn't. people working are far better off than those on the dole overall, which is a fact.

yes, taxpayers in every civilised western society pay for welfare, well done. any other breaking news?

yes, that's exactly where it comes from. just like people's income tax cut money today. people haven't done anything to warrant that increase, maybe we should have just not given people any tax cuts and spent it on other state costs?

Fr. Ned

ghostdancer wrote: »

no, there isn't. people working are far better off than those on the dole overall, which is a fact.

Imagine that......

However, there is no doubt that there are people in this country better off on the dole than working, to deny that would be quite foolish.

titan18

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Sister paid stamps from 1975 to 2010. full-time employment.
She then paid stamps fro 2010 to 2013 - pert-time employment.
She got JSB for 9 months - grand total of 6,768 euro from 38 years of stamps.

Who knows how much tax she paid in those 38 years perhaps her and those like her should have just kept all that money for themselves not allowed the State to take it to fund the education of those who I see believe they have all the answers.

The lack of empathy and compassion and sheer judgemental BS I see being expressed on this thread fills me with revulsion. What a nasty selfish race of people us Irish seem to be.

Exactly, that's the right system. Low tax, low public spending. Make people responsible for themselves. Their own welfare, health etc.

kerryguy78

FloatingVoter wrote: »

Offer me a job. Now. Or apologise and admit you are typing rubbish.

not talking rubbish, when this country had loads of jobs we still had ppl sitting on their lazy asses and expecting the rest of us to put money in their pockets.

Fr. Ned

kerryguy78 wrote: »

not talking rubbish, when this country had loads of jobs we still had ppl sitting on their lazy asses and expecting the rest of us to put money in their pockets.

150,000 if I remember correctly, at a time of 'full employment'!

In Lonesome Dove

miss no stars wrote: »

There are many working people who have less than those on welfare long term.

That should never, EVER, be possible.

Also, that extra €40 given to welfare has to be paid by someone - who do you think that is? The money fairy?

No, it's the people who work and pay tax. It's not coming out of thin air - if it's being given it's coming from somewhere and that somewhere is money borrowed to be given away for free and those borrowings have to be repaid by those who work. The idea of a Christmas bonus for welfare is absurd. Absolutely daft. A bonus is meant to be something extra in reward for a job well done. Sitting on the scratcher warrants a bonus????

Think about the bonus as being a stimulas package going back into the economy when people spend it at Xmas time.

Bannasidhe

miss no stars wrote: »

So where would you cap it? wanna just give all your money away and the state will give everyone the exact same amount no matter how much or how little work they do?

And if you returned to Ireland in 1993 it means the debt won't be paid off by you, it'll be paid off by my generation and my kids' generation. So yeah. When this is all being put on the tab for my future to pay for, yeah, I have a right to begrudge extra being given away when we already have an EXTREMELY generous welfare system.

Yeah. I was busy paying off the 70s and 80s debt, my parents paid off the 'Emergency' debt, my grandparents paid off the War of Independence debt (and some of the WWI debt).

That's how it works.

My grandchildren will pay off your generations debts. They don't know that yet as they are only 8 and 5 years old. I hope they have more compassion than you or your old age could be a miserable time.

lanos

tayto lover wrote: »

If we beat Scotland away in Nov we have a great chance.

Mr moderator, please discipline this man for off-topic posting
Oops just realised you can't

Barely There

I suspect Angela is really, really annoyed at Ireland right now.

lanos

Barely There wrote: »

I suspect Angela is really, really annoyed at Ireland right now.

Because of corporation tax ?

kerryguy78

I know bashing the jobless is an easy target, but last Friday i walked in to a pub to have a drink before i went home from work, 3 dolers were sitting at the counter turned around and one said to me, "are you working at all today or what?". In other words what are you doing in a pub at this hour of the day. These dolers sit in that pub at least five days a week moaning about how hard done by they are!!!!!

tayto lover

lanos wrote: »

Mr moderator, please discipline this man for off-topic posting
Oops just realised you can't

I deleted when I realised I was in here

Davarus Walrus

Where are the Adam's Androids this evening? Back reprogramming themselves after the election result and the budget announcements? Time for populism 2.0.

Engage.

Stojkovic

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Keep leaping to incorrect conclusions there sunshine

I'm leaping like John O'Shea.
Handy €200 from Mr. Power.
Ya can keep your €40 Christmas Bonus.

lanos

tayto lover wrote: »

I deleted when I realised I was in here

No worries
Read post #1135

Chucken

LexieOnRale wrote: »

I think there's two very different generations here. You have the older posters who know of people who worked all their lives, lost their jobs and are on the dole really trying to find a new job and get back to earning a wage.

Then you have the younger posters who know a lot of people who've never worked, never likely to work, no interest in anything resembling work and who are quite happy living at home (in a council house) with their medical cards, and being able to drink their dole.

I live in a town where 'Monday Club' is huge. There's a pub who has a dj playing music from the 80s upwards and after him a local band plays. Carling, at 3.20
a pint is what you see most people drinking, it's rough as hell, and is full of people who get paid on a Monday and are straight down to the pub.

It's a thing, look it up.

But yet you seem to tar everyone, in every town in the country with the same brush.

Would you care to answer my question from earlier.
Do you have a trust fund to fall back on if you become unemployed?
Who's to say the arse wont fall out of whatever it is you for a living?