Budget 2015 [De wan an' only thread!]

tayto lover

Looking at Prime Time now.
The left are turning right and the right are turning left.
Politics is a weird world.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Chucken wrote: »

Would you care to answer my question from earlier.
Do you have a trust fund to fall back on if you become unemployed?
Who's to say the arse wont fall out of whatever it is you for a living?

That's a very personal question.

kerryguy78

Chucken wrote: »

But yet you seem to tar everyone, in every town in the country with the same brush.

Would you care to answer my question from earlier.
Do you have a trust fund to fall back on if you become unemployed?
Who's to say the arse wont fall out of whatever it is you for a living?

i have always said it, there is ppl on dole who would do anything for some work and other suckers who just want to bleed the country dry, that is fact.

Bannasidhe

LexieOnRale wrote: »

I think there's two very different generations here. You have the older posters who know of people who worked all their lives, lost their jobs and are on the dole really trying to find a new job and get back to earning a wage.

Then you have the younger posters who know a lot of people who've never worked, never likely to work, no interest in anything resembling work and who are quite happy living at home (in a council house) with their medical cards, and being able to drink their dole.

I live in a town where 'Monday Club' is huge. There's a pub who has a dj playing music from the 80s upwards and after him a local band plays. Carling, at 3.20
a pint is what you see most people drinking, it's rough as hell, and is full of people who get paid on a Monday and are straight down to the pub.

It's a thing, look it up.

I now, for my sins, teach the younger generation.

What I see day in day out are groups of young men and women receiving a highly subsidised third level education who drink their grants and do everything possible to avoid anything that smacks of education.

I have a folder just of granny died excuses (one poor guy lost a granny a month for 6 months) for not completing assignments.

Oh, we do get some excellent students. Gifted students. These are also usually, but not exclusively, mature students - or students with dyslexia or other learning difficulties, they tend to really really put the work in. But not that many. Maybe 15 out of 500 in a good year.
Then we get the majority who will do only the bare minimum needed to scrape a 2.2 and then there are the wasters. The gang who can't even pass first year.

Then there are the Americans. I love the Americans. They are engaged. They participate. They turn up for lectures. They do their assignments. They also, coincidentally, pay a hell of a lot for their precious degrees and are determined not to waste their time or money. The ones we get are paying around 30,000 a year.

It strikes me as hypocritical that there are probably people here complaining about the Xmas bonus who availed of a third level education system where their college degree tuition cost them a max of 9 grand in total and some of them may have paid nothing at all and received a grant from the State to help keep the publicans afloat.

A younger generation with a staggering sense of entitlement complaining about scroungers. Only in Ireland.

I'm from the generation who paid for our college degrees from undergrad to postgrad and now I am part of the generation who is paying the high rates of tax and have been doing so for decades.

Given the choice I would rather pay those on SW a full weeks bonus even if it means some 'dole lifers never worked a day' get it too than pay the college tuition fees for some over privileged grind school 'educated' driving beer swilling 'student'.

kerryguy78

tayto lover wrote: »

Looking at Prime Time now.
The left are turning right and the right are turning left.
Politics is a weird world.

there is only one big reason to watch prime time and that is Miriam

dark crystal

LexieOnRale wrote: »

I think there's two very different generations here. You have the older posters who know of people who worked all their lives, lost their jobs and are on the dole really trying to find a new job and get back to earning a wage.

Then you have the younger posters who know a lot of people who've never worked, never likely to work, no interest in anything resembling work and who are quite happy living at home (in a council house) with their medical cards, and being able to drink their dole.

I live in a town where 'Monday Club' is huge. There's a pub who has a dj playing music from the 80s upwards and after him a local band plays. Carling, at 3.20
a pint is what you see most people drinking, it's rough as hell, and is full of people who get paid on a Monday and are straight down to the pub.

It's a thing, look it up.

There's two generations here, yes.

One generation grew up during the boom and looked on in horror as it all crashed around them. Their shopping trips to New York decreased, they had to cut back on their nights out and they they couldn't buy a brand new car every January. They take The Daily Mail approach to life and blame the poor for everything. They're snobs of the worst kind - the spoiled Celtic Tiger cubs who'd rather change doctor than have to sit in a waiting room with medical card holders.

Then you have the older posters who lived through the same shit, only worse, in the 80's. Saw their parents struggle, saw a huge swathe of people forced to emigrate and can empathise with how tough some people are having it at the moment. They don't stereotype or denigrate everyone in that shitty boat, but have the cop on to realise the actions of a few do not represent the majority. They realise there but for the grace of God go I.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Haha touché.

The trips to New York didn't stop, either

wretcheddomain

What a fine budget that was.

Chucken

LexieOnRale wrote: »

That's a very personal question.

I don't really want an answer. Maybe have a think about how you would cope in the morning if you lost your job.

tayto lover

kerryguy78 wrote: »

there is only one big reason to watch prime time and that is Miriam

Can't really stand her myself.
I think she's a bit fake.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Chucken wrote: »

I don't really want an answer. Maybe have a think about how you would cope in the morning if you lost your job.

I've been in the situation, and had to cope, and I did cope.

Bannasidhe

Stojkovic wrote: »

I'm leaping like John O'Shea.
Handy €200 from Mr. Power.
Ya can keep your €40 Christmas Bonus.

Wanna place a bet on whether I get a SW bonus?

Go on.

I'll enjoy donating your money to charity.

jonnny68

fair budget eh

Chucken

LexieOnRale wrote: »

I've been in the situation, and had to cope, and I did cope.

And now you have a job. Why the constant moaning about people on social welfare then? Because 'where you live has a Monday club'?! Which sounds like great craic btw. I might pop over now that I'm unemployed again since Friday!

kerryguy78

tayto lover wrote: »

Can't really stand her myself.
I think she's a bit fake.

More of her for me then, some woman.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Chucken wrote: »

And now you have a job. Why the constant moaning about people on social welfare then? Because 'where you live has a Monday club'?! Which sounds like great craic btw. I might pop over now that I'm unemployed again since Friday!

I have never been on social welfare in my life.

kerryguy78

LexieOnRale wrote: »

I have never been on social welfare in my life.

Well then your not a sponger, spongers are the 'never worked a day in their lives club'

Chucken

LexieOnRale wrote: »

I have never been on social welfare in my life.

So what? I've never been to Australia but it doesn't give me the right to complain about people who have.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Chucken wrote: »

So what? I've never been to Australia but it doesn't give me the right to complain about people who have.

Well then stop asking personal questions

titan18

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I'd agree with you on the college students. I'm just out of college and I saw plenty people like that in college, who just drank their time away and scraped past. I don't agree with free fees, and didn't through college. I'd rather a loan system in place so that those who want to go to college and work can go there, but they pay it back. After the degree and then a masters, I'm earning 22k base a year, so pretty much on the low end of pay.

I'm firmly right-wing. My taxes now or in the future shouldn't pay for things that aren't necessary. Low tax, low spending, individuals responsible for their own health and welfare. Small governments and small government interference in people's lives.

Chucken

LexieOnRale wrote: »

Well then stop asking personal questions

As soon as you stop taring everyone with the same brush.

kerryguy78

My girlfriend is on social welfare and i know its not easy she has a daughter to support too. But she doesn't be in the pub alot and they have a very comfortable life

crannglas

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Gee - wonder what all those people in Direct Provision Centres are doing in there so...

By 'economic' migrants do you mean like all those Irish people who have gone to the U.S./Canada/U.K/Australia etc for 'economic' reasons? Some of them are even there legally...

I moved to the UK as an 'economic' migrant in the 80s - they gave me a council flat and dole until I found a job. There was loads of Irish there. Living in our council flats. We were even officially classed as an ethnic minority.

People claiming asylum do not get get rent allowance, dole, council houses etc. They get to live in 'Accommodation' centres whose owners are paid around 186 pw by the State and hand over under 20 euro of that to the asylum seekers. There are no cooking facilities, play facilities for children (most of whom were born in Ireland) and families share a room. One room. People have spent up to 15 years in these places waiting for a final decision.

I don't know who you are talking about but it ain't asylum seekers.

lmao the usual throwbin the Irish migrant as a distraction and feeble attempt to make like Irish migrant is even remotely the same.

By using the I was an economic migrant blah de blah. You forgot one little detail with that comparison. Did you claim ayslum and pretend to be running for your life? And then tie up courts in fake ass appeal after appeal costing the country or did any Irish do that in any country they emigrated to? Causing genuine asylum seekers to be stuck on waiting list or not getting to safe countries in first place? I once heard s story. But not point to relay here as only hear say. Again I don't care what you believe. I have witnessed fislrst hand fake Id and name stealing and people pretending from certain country they aren't. You carry on being ostrich.

murphm45

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I now, for my sins, teach the younger generation.

Do you mind if I ask what you teach? Is what you're seeing true of all students or is it just the student in the course you teach?

The reason I ask is despite it being a decade since I was in college there were certain degrees that were known to attract wasters. Unfortunately while I know it's a harsh generalisation these courses generally had lower points requirements. To be honest I'm just looking for something that actually validates the education system that was very good to me and allowed me (and a lot of others) opportunities we never would have gotten otherwise.

Sorry for the off topic post but slightly more on topic I think the budget was incredibly benign. I was an attempt to buy the election. Nearly everyone gained something (albeit relatively little) and I wonder if nothing was done would people have reacted as badly (I.e would people be complaining about people on the dole getting money)?

crannglas

miss no stars wrote: »

1. They once had jobs. Great. How about allowing them to structure their job seeker's benefit so that they can take an extra month or half month of their own contributions at Christmas? That sounds fair to me. If their JSB has run out well then it's not from their own contributions anymore is it?

2. The tax payers are paying back the loans, not the people on the dole. Giving more money to people on the dole means that those working have to pay more loans back. We don't have it to give it!

3. You're right - why should the children of hard working parents who barely get to see them because they're working hours upon hours of overtime - for free because that's now the norm - just to keep their job and keep a roof over their head... Why should they suffer at Christmas cause their parents have nothing thanks to it all being taken in tax to give to people who aren't working?

I don't know where the idea that there's loads of money to piss away came from. I really don't. It's not there - the country is borrowing to give money away for free. How about don't borrow as much and don't have to pay back as much. Real recovery faster :eek:

Or how about using that money in a productive manner... I dunno maybe sort out the current homelessness crisis where working people are being priced out of the rental market ???

Perhaps the big fat wages and expenses and hotels and spending money on Lizzie security and foreign aid money and drink in dail bar. Pissing away money.

Bannasidhe

crannglas wrote: »

lmao the usual throwbin the Irish migrant as a distraction and feeble attempt to make like Irish migrant is even remotely the same.

By using the I was an economic migrant blah de blah. You forgot one little detail with that comparison. Did you claim ayslum and pretend to be running for your life? And then tie up courts in fake ass appeal after appeal costing the country or did any Irish do that in any country they emigrated to? Causing genuine asylum seekers to be stuck on waiting list or not getting to safe countries in first place? I once heard s story. But not point to relay here as only hear say. Again I don't care what you believe. I have witnessed fislrst hand fake Id and name stealing and people pretending from certain country they aren't. You carry on being ostrich.

As a lesbian and the possessor of a womb just as the 8th Amendment was passed I was certainly running for a life.

If Irish people are going to complain about economic migrants than it's fair comment to point out that we are dab hands at the ol economic migration ourselves. Some of us even get worked up that illegals in the U.S. can't come home for Xmas.

I have witnessed the conditions in provision centres first hand. I have met people who were deported as their claim wasn't deemed genuine who were murdered on their return to the place where there was apparently no threat.

I have met countless woman who are the victims of female genital mutilation who are terrified the same will be done to their daughters if they are sent back.

Better an ostrich than a one rule for us and another rule for them kinda person.

Do you stand by your claims re: council flats and getting the dole?
Those are what I disputed and you appear to have forgotten to address that.

crannglas

Bannasidhe wrote: »

As a lesbian and the possessor of a womb just as the 8th Amendment was passed I was certainly running for a life.

If Irish people are going to complain about economic migrants than it's fair comment to point out that we are dab hands at the ol economic migration ourselves. Some of us even get worked up that illegals in the U.S. can't come ohome for Xmas.

I have witnessed the conditions in provision centres first hand. I have met people who were deported as their claim wasn't deemed genuine who were murdered on their return to the place where there was apparently no threat.

I have met countless woman who are the victims of female genital mutilation who are terrified the same will be done to their daughters if they are sent back.

Better an ostrich than a one rule for us and another rule for them kinda person.

Do you stand by your claims re: council flats and getting the dole?
Those are what I disputed and you appear to have forgotten to address that.

Not like for like. In USA they get nothing nor in Aussie. However I think same for same. **** em out Irish or other don't care. Made their choices let them lay in it. Yep I do stand by commented on. Prove me wrong since that's what you believe. You do realise council rent houses off owners so therefore council houses. Any way wasn't point I was making I have work in morning so good night god bless.

RobYourBuilder

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I now, for my sins, teach the younger generation.

What I see day in day out are groups of young men and women receiving a highly subsidised third level education who drink their grants and do everything possible to avoid anything that smacks of education.

I have a folder just of granny died excuses (one poor guy lost a granny a month for 6 months) for not completing assignments.

Oh, we do get some excellent students. Gifted students. These are also usually, but not exclusively, mature students - or students with dyslexia or other learning difficulties, they tend to really really put the work in. But not that many. Maybe 15 out of 500 in a good year.
Then we get the majority who will do only the bare minimum needed to scrape a 2.2 and then there are the wasters. The gang who can't even pass first year.

Then there are the Americans. I love the Americans. They are engaged. They participate. They turn up for lectures. They do their assignments. They also, coincidentally, pay a hell of a lot for their precious degrees and are determined not to waste their time or money. The ones we get are paying around 30,000 a year.

It strikes me as hypocritical that there are probably people here complaining about the Xmas bonus who availed of a third level education system where their college degree tuition cost them a max of 9 grand in total and some of them may have paid nothing at all and received a grant from the State to help keep the publicans afloat.

A younger generation with a staggering sense of entitlement complaining about scroungers. Only in Ireland.

I'm from the generation who paid for our college degrees from undergrad to postgrad and now I am part of the generation who is paying the high rates of tax and have been doing so for decades.

Given the choice I would rather pay those on SW a full weeks bonus even if it means some 'dole lifers never worked a day' get it too than pay the college tuition fees for some over privileged grind school 'educated' driving beer swilling 'student'.

No, it's not only in Ireland. Most EU countries have free to extremely low tuition rates for all EU citizens. Germany and Norway offer free tuition to all, doesn't matter their citizenship. I'm sure there are coffin dodgers all over the EU moaning about having had to build up the country, pay crazy taxes and do without; only for the current generation being gifted free education and actually being paid a stipend/grant to attend.

Get off the cross. It's your generation that repeatedly voted in Fianna Fail.

Bannasidhe

crannglas wrote: »

Not like for like. In USA they get nothing nor in Aussie. However I think same for same. **** em out Irish or other don't care. Made their choices let them lay in it. Yep I do stand by commented on. Prove me wrong since that's what you believe. You do realise council rent houses off owners so therefore council houses. Any way wasn't point I was making I have work in morning so good night god bless.

Spent 2 years living in Oz - had a permanent visa - got free health care from the moment my foot hit the ground. Hardly nothing as I am a diabetic.

Re: where asylum seekers live

Once an application for a declaration as a refugee is made in Ireland, asylum seekers may be housed by the Reception and Integration Agency (RIA) until the application is completed. The system of accomodation centres is known as direct provision.

http://www.unhcr.ie/our-work-in-ireland/the-asylum-process-in-ireland

Under the system, asylum seekers are not allowed to work. They are not entitled to regular social welfare, such as child benefit. And they are excluded from social housing and free third-level education. Instead, asylum seekers receive bed and board through the direct-provision system and a weekly payment of €19.10 per adult and €9.60 per child.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/more-than-4-000-living-in-direct-provision-system-1.1891353

As I said, I don't know who you are referring to when you speak of 'migrants' living in council flats and claiming the dole but they are not asylum seekers. They may be people who have been granted refugee status - no mean feat as it is notoriously difficult in Ireland.

JUST 25 asylum seekers were approved as refugees in Ireland last year.

The number of successful asylum seekers has plummeted from more than 1,000 the previous year.

New figures released by Eurostat show Ireland now has the lowest approval rate for refugee status in the whole of Europe.

While a quarter of asylum seekers across Europe were successful in 2010, in Ireland just 1.5pc succeeded in their bid.

Refugee status is granted if a person is deemed to have shown they could be persecuted because of race, religion, politics nationality or membership of a particular social group.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/only-25-granted-asylum-last-year-lowest-rate-in-eu-26718014.html

RobYourBuilder

LexieOnRale wrote: »

I live in a town where 'Monday Club' is huge. There's a pub who has a dj playing music from the 80s upwards and after him a local band plays. Carling, at 3.20
a pint is what you see most people drinking, it's rough as hell, and is full of people who get paid on a Monday and are straight down to the pub.

It's a thing, look it up.

'It's a thing, look it up'. Lol. You seem shocked that some people go out during the week.

Monday clubs are not a new thing. They have been around forever. Pubs are empty, a lot of service staff have the day off after working the weekend. They lower prices or put on specials to entice some in.

lanos

Bannasidhe wrote: »

As a lesbian and the possessor of a womb just as the 8th Amendment was passed I was certainly running for a life.

If Irish people are going to complain about economic migrants than it's fair comment to point out that we are dab hands at the ol economic migration ourselves. Some of us even get worked up that illegals in the U.S. can't come home for Xmas.

I have witnessed the conditions in provision centres first hand. I have met people who were deported as their claim wasn't deemed genuine who were murdered on their return to the place where there was apparently no threat.

I have met countless woman who are the victims of female genital mutilation who are terrified the same will be done to their daughters if they are sent back.

Better an ostrich than a one rule for us and another rule for them kinda person.

Do you stand by your claims re: council flats and getting the dole?
Those are what I disputed and you appear to have forgotten to address that.

I have experience of the Refugee Appeals Tribunal
I have read case files and seen glaringly obvious lies and spoken with Tribunal adjudicators in a non professional capacity and their opinion is that most asylum applications in Ireland are bogus and their application is in breach of the Dublin convention requiring that applicants apply for asylum in the first country of entry to the EU. Regarding FGM, have you actually seen the evidence personally. They are probably spinning you a yarn.
BTW, what has your sexual orientation got to do with anything.

RobYourBuilder

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Spent 2 years living in Oz - had a permanent visa - got free health care from the moment my foot hit the ground. Hardly nothing as I am a diabetic.

Re: where asylum seekers live



http://www.unhcr.ie/our-work-in-ireland/the-asylum-process-in-ireland

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/more-than-4-000-living-in-direct-provision-system-1.1891353

As I said, I don't know who you are referring to when you speak of 'migrants' living in council flats and claiming the dole but they are not asylum seekers. They may be people who have been granted refugee status - no mean feat as it is notoriously difficult in Ireland.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/only-25-granted-asylum-last-year-lowest-rate-in-eu-26718014.html

The lowest approval rate. Hmmm. How many are actually deported?

Between 2005 and 2012, some 2,259 people were deported from Ireland, including 973 Nigerians.

http://www.catherinereilly.com/

Perhaps so few actually gain refugee status as most claims are unfounded?

You mentioned social housing and all that jazz. Here are the figures.

THE State is spending around €150m a year hosting a "United Nations" of nationalities in rented properties, according to new figures.

People from 161 different countries, ranging from Afghanistan to Zimbabwe, are in receipt of the free rental allowance.

They account for 39pc of the 63,000 people on the means-tested scheme, which costs a total of €390m annually and is generally open only to those who are unemployed.

Although 61pc of people on the scheme are Irish, the numbers of immigrants on rent allowance has been increasing steadily.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/united-nations-of-claimants-costing-state-150m-26467058.html

There are just under 30,000 non Irish families on the housing list.

http://www.environ.ie/en/Publications/StatisticsandRegularPublications/HousingStatistics/

Fine Gael Councillor Kieran Dennison has raised questions about Ireland's social housing policy after it was revealed that Fingal County Council were housing up to 70 different nationalities, many from outside the EU. Cllr. Dennison said: 'It was only when I was elected to the council that I realised we were housing people from all over the world. 'I can understand our obligation to provide for EU citizens who have been working here but I do question why we are providing social housing for the rest of the world.'

The councillor said that this year Fingal will spend €40m maintaining its 4,465 social housing units and administering a growing waiting list that now stand at 8,572. More than half those on the list are from outside Ireland with non-eu nationals accounting for 26 per cent of the total.

http://www.independent.ie/regionals/fingalindependent/news/provision-of-social-housing-for-noneu-nationals-queried-27814910.html

The number on the dole:

According to the CSO the rate of unemployment among non Irish people in 2011 was 22 percent compared with a rate of 18.5 percent among Irish people.

Nigerians had the highest unemployment rate amongst non nationals at 39 per cent while nationals from the Nordic countries had the lowest rates.

Among Eastern European nationals Lithuanian had an unemployment rate of 24 percent while the rate for Polish nationals was slightly lower at 21 percent.

http://www.thejournal.ie/one-in-five-unemployed-2011-non-nationals-534685-Jul2012/

Eye watering figures, aye?

Frank Lee Midere

RobYourBuilder wrote: »

The lowest approval rate. Hmmm. How many are actually deported?



http://www.catherinereilly.com/

Perhaps so few actually gain refugee status as most claims are unfounded?

You mentioned social housing and all that jazz. Here are the figures.



http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/united-nations-of-claimants-costing-state-150m-26467058.html

There are just under 30,000 non Irish families on the housing list.

http://www.environ.ie/en/Publications/StatisticsandRegularPublications/HousingStatistics/



http://www.independent.ie/regionals/fingalindependent/news/provision-of-social-housing-for-noneu-nationals-queried-27814910.html

The number on the dole:



http://www.thejournal.ie/one-in-five-unemployed-2011-non-nationals-534685-Jul2012/

Eye watering figures, aye?

2011

Bannasidhe

RobYourBuilder wrote: »

No, it's not only in Ireland. Most EU countries have free to extremely low tuition rates for all EU citizens. Germany and Norway offer free tuition to all, doesn't matter their citizenship. I'm sure there are coffin dodgers all over the EU moaning about having had to build up the country, pay crazy taxes and do without; only for the current generation being gifted free education and actually being paid a stipend/grant to attend.

Get off the cross. It's your generation that repeatedly voted in Fianna Fail.

You appear to have missed my point that there is a large number of the younger generation - the free fees generation -here giving out about people on SW getting 'money for nothing'. Completely ignoring that, even if we take the figure of 150,000 on the live register during the boom that still leaves at least another 150,000 more on the live register now who paid PRSI, for decades in many cases. That's Pay Related Social Insurance - a wee fund that workers pay into to cushion them should they cease to be working.
For this they get 9 months of JSB and then it's JSA.

I assume since all these young uns are so opposed to the State handing out money to wasters they will immediately call for the introduction of full tuition fees to discourage the college wasters and those who did attend third level will repay the State in full for their university educations. It would be the principled thing to do.

Or they could realise that they are members of a society. A society that, like our European counterparts, has adopted a socially inclusive model and not a neo-liberal model as in the U.S.

Never voted for Fianna Fail or Fine Gael in my life and never will. Hate both of them.

I also have no time for crosses of any description. Including the one where the employed whinge continually about the unemployed.

Stojkovic

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Wanna place a bet on whether I get a SW bonus?

Go on.

I'll enjoy donating your money to charity.

Odds ?

L.Jenkins

Nearly €4000 increase in my wages, woot!!!!!

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Bannasidhe wrote: »

You appear to have missed my point that there is a large number of the younger generation - the free fees generation -here giving out about people on SW getting 'money for nothing'. Completely ignoring that, even if we take the figure of 150,000 on the live register during the boom that still leaves at least another 150,000 more on the live register now who paid PRSI, for decades in many cases. That's Pay Related Social Insurance - a wee fund that workers pay into to cushion them should they cease to be working.
For this they get 9 months of JSB and then it's JSA.

I assume since all these young uns are so opposed to the State handing out money to wasters they will immediately call for the introduction of full tuition fees to discourage the college wasters and those who did attend third level will repay the State in full for their university educations. It would be the principled thing to do.

Or they could realise that they are members of a society. A society that, like our European counterparts, has adopted a socially inclusive model and not a neo-liberal model as in the U.S.

Never voted for Fianna Fail or Fine Gael in my life and never will. Hate both of them.

I also have no time for crosses of any description. Including the one where the employed whinge continually about the unemployed.

You're assuming that we all owe the state for university educations. My college course was paid for before I could even start it, I wasn't entitled to grants or any of that craic and my exams were separate fees too, so how about you stop tarring everyone with the same brush

Frank Lee Midere

Bannasidhe wrote: »

You appear to have missed my point that there is a large number of the younger generation - the free fees generation -here giving out about people on SW getting 'money for nothing'. Completely ignoring that, even if we take the figure of 150,000 on the live register during the boom that still leaves at least another 150,000 more on the live register now who paid PRSI, for decades in many cases. That's Pay Related Social Insurance - a wee fund that workers pay into to cushion them should they cease to be working.
For this they get 9 months of JSB and then it's JSA.

I assume since all these young uns are so opposed to the State handing out money to wasters they will immediately call for the introduction of full tuition fees to discourage the college wasters and those who did attend third level will repay the State in full for their university educations. It would be the principled thing to do.

Or they could realise that they are members of a society. A society that, like our European counterparts, has adopted a socially inclusive model and not a neo-liberal model as in the U.S.

Never voted for Fianna Fail or Fine Gael in my life and never will. Hate both of them.

I also have no time for crosses of any description. Including the one where the employed whinge continually about the unemployed.

I'm convinced that most of the libertarians on here have never left the college dorm or mammy's basement.

Bannasidhe

lanos wrote: »

I have experience of the Refugee Appeals Tribunal
I have read case files and seen glaringly obvious lies and spoken with Tribunal adjudicators in a non professional capacity and their opinion is that most asylum applications in Ireland are bogus and their application is in breach of the Dublin convention requiring that applicants apply for asylum in the first country of entry to the EU. Regarding FGM, have you actually seen the evidence personally. They are probably spinning you a yarn.
BTW, what has your sexual orientation got to do with anything.

Yes - I go around demanding to see women's vaginas all the time. :rolleyes:
The World Health Organisation puts the number of women/girls who have suffer FGM as 125 million. With 3 million at risk in Africa alone every year.
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs241/en/

Are you going to suggest WHO are being spun yarns?

My sexual orientation had a lot to do with why I left an Ireland where homosexuality was illegal. I was asked if I was running for my life. I replied I was running for a life. Fairly evident in that what my sexual orientation had to do with my reason for leaving.
I also referred to the 8th Amendment - do you wish to question the relevance of that too? It's because I have a womb and believe all human beings have an inalienable right to bodily integrity - something that is still being denied women in Ireland today. My belief in the Right to Bodily Integrity is also why I believe that a girl at risk of having her clitoris removed and her vaginal opening sown shut against her will should be granted refugee status.
If boys were at risk of castration I believe they should equally be granted refugee status.

Strange how in Ireland we find sooo many more 'bogus' cases than in other European countries. Only Greece rejects more than us. We must have legions of Tribunal Adjudicators peering at vaginas here. Pity they are not so professional as to refrain from discussing cases in a 'non professional capacity' - or are asylum seekers not entitled to modicum of privacy?

None of what you have said has anything to do with the fact that asylum seekers do not get 'council' flats or the dole as the poster I was responding to claimed.

Bannasidhe

RobYourBuilder wrote: »

The lowest approval rate. Hmmm. How many are actually deported?



http://www.catherinereilly.com/

Perhaps so few actually gain refugee status as most claims are unfounded?

You mentioned social housing and all that jazz. Here are the figures.



http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/united-nations-of-claimants-costing-state-150m-26467058.html

There are just under 30,000 non Irish families on the housing list.

http://www.environ.ie/en/Publications/StatisticsandRegularPublications/HousingStatistics/



http://www.independent.ie/regionals/fingalindependent/news/provision-of-social-housing-for-noneu-nationals-queried-27814910.html

The number on the dole:



http://www.thejournal.ie/one-in-five-unemployed-2011-non-nationals-534685-Jul2012/

Eye watering figures, aye?

The claim was made that asylum seekers get the dole and live in 'council' flats - they do not. They are expressly forbidden from doing either of those things.
That is what I was responding to.

If they are granted refugee status then they become entitled to the same as Irish citizens, UK subjects and indeed E.U. citizens. That includes availing of social housing and claiming SW.

Do you have a problem with that?

If so take it up with the Government. Campaign for the repeal of the Refugee Act and our withdrawal from the 1951 Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees.

RobYourBuilder

Strange how in Ireland we find sooo many more 'bogus' cases than in other European countries. Only Greece rejects more than us. We must have legions of Tribunal Adjudicators peering at vaginas here. Pity they are not so professional as to refrain from discussing cases in a 'non professional capacity' - or are asylum seekers not entitled to modicum of privacy? 

What year?

Some stats; http://i.imgur.com/QD6KpxJ.jpg

You seem very angry at Ireland and her people. You said that we are a mean race. You claimed that most Irish students are lazy. You seem to resent paying taxes here, even though you work for the state earning multiples of what most of your European counterparts earn.

If I hated a place so much, I'd book a Ryanair flight and pack a bag.

Why stick around if you hate the place?

Bannasidhe

Stojkovic wrote: »

Odds ?

Doesn't matter.

Gainfully employed so you lose.

Kindly donate to TREOIR charity # CHY No. 8877. The single parents will appreciate it.

Your do pay your gambling debts don't you...

RobYourBuilder

Bannasidhe wrote: »

The claim was made that asylum seekers get the dole and live in 'council' flats - they do not. They are expressly forbidden from doing either of those things.
That is what I was responding to.

If they are granted refugee status then they become entitled to the same as Irish citizens, UK subjects and indeed E.U. citizens. That includes availing of social housing and claiming SW.

Do you have a problem with that?

If so take it up with the Government. Campaign for the repeal of the Refugee Act and our withdrawal from the 1951 Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees.

The vast majority are refused asylum, due to their claims being bogus, and then exhaust the appeals process. They then get leave to remain, marry an EU citizen, have an EU citizen child and stay under Zambrano, etc. Very few ever got deported. Between 2005-2012 circa 300 people, not just failed asylum seekers, were deported per annum. Sure more Irish are deported from Oz alone than that. Its laughable.

The majority get to stay, not as recognised refugees though. Then a sizeable chunk do avail of social housing, welfare, the whole shebang.

Bannasidhe

LexieOnRale wrote: »

You're assuming that we all owe the state for university educations. My college course was paid for before I could even start it, I wasn't entitled to grants or any of that craic and my exams were separate fees too, so how about you stop tarring everyone with the same brush

I said 'a large number' not 'all'.

See the difference?

Bannasidhe

RobYourBuilder wrote: »

What year?

Some stats; http://i.imgur.com/QD6KpxJ.jpg

You seem very angry at Ireland and her people. You said that we are a mean race. You claimed that most Irish students are lazy. You seem to resent paying taxes here, even though you work for the state earning multiples of what most of your European counterparts earn.

If I hated a place so much, I'd book a Ryanair flight and pack a bag.

Why stick around if you hate the place?

I am angry at selfish, mean spirited, me me me people. Yes.

I am angry at people who act like they are the only ones who ever paid a penny to the State and our schools, hospitals, entire infrastructure wasn't paid for by countless generations. If they had all decided 'it's every man for himself' what would we have now? Nothing.

I am angry at people who are so ignorant of what life was like before social welfare that they want to return to those days.

As an Irish person living in Ireland I would hope that given our history we could show a bit more compassion. Instead some of the comments here are reminiscent of those uttered during the Famine about the Irish poor. 'Why should they get money for nothing'. 'Lazy and workshy' - the words used to justify getting starving people to build roads to nowhere and burn off more calories than they could possible get from the corn gruel they could afford from the pittance they were paid.

Some of the people here strike me as the kind who would have been happy to jack up the prices of basic food items when they saw the road workers approach to buy food.

Did you miss the words 'seem to be' - that is called a qualifier. I used it several times above and in previous posts. It means I did not say 'we are a mean race' - I said we do a damn fine impression of that sometimes. Perhaps the difference is too subtle for you?

I have no problem paying taxes. I pay an awful lot of taxes. Much more than most (another qualifier) of those who begrudge 40 euro to people on SW - some of whom don't even live here so certainly aren't paying any taxes at all here but feel qualified to comment nonetheless. I care so little about how much I pay that I have a second job where I lose most of what I earn in taxes but I enjoy teaching mature, interested engaged students who, as they are paying fees, actually do the work.

There is more to life than money - unless you have very little.

It doesn't impact on my life to any great extent to pay more tax but an extra 40 quid for a family on SW at Xmas could make a difference to them. I wish them enjoyment of it and would that the highly paid members of our parliament stopped paying themselves a dry cleaning allowance and gave to the those who could use it.

Given my area of expertise I would be paid more in Continental Europe - especially Germany and Belgium - but that has absolutely nothing to do with anything.

You obviously don't know very many university lecturers if you think my frustration at seeing people waste the opportunity they are being given is unique. It's pretty much per for the course and comes with the territory. I'm sure if you were faced with a class of young men and women reeking of alcohol on a Wednesday afternoon you would take a more sanguine approach.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

LOL

DamagedTrax

im not sure why you would find any of that funny LexieOnRale?

its a damning indictment and very true. i cant see any humour in it.

Bannasidhe

RobYourBuilder wrote: »

The vast majority are refused asylum, due to their claims being bogus, and then exhaust the appeals process. They then get leave to remain, marry an EU citizen, have an EU citizen child and stay under Zambrano, etc. Very few ever got deported. Between 2005-2012 circa 300 people, not just failed asylum seekers, were deported per annum. Sure more Irish are deported from Oz alone than that. Its laughable.

The majority get to stay, not as recognised refugees though. Then a sizeable chunk do avail of social housing, welfare, the whole shebang.

Refused refugee status but allowed to remain anyway?

I'm going to need to see some proof of that.

As for marrying an E.U. citizen and being given leave to stay. That is no different from marrying a U.S. citizen and being given leave to stay there - or the other way around. It's a fairly standard practice and not unique to Ireland.

However, unlike for example the U.S., all children born in Ireland are not entitled to Irish citizenship so we have the ridiculous situation where a person whose grandparents left here while Ireland was technically still part of the British Empire and never set foot here can claim citizenship but a child who was born here, goes to school here and has never left the country has to 'prove' their ties to here. If Mammy was here only three years before they were born - well that's just tough sunny Jim. You can't be 'Irish' and so we may deport you back to a place you have never seen.

In fact, under the grandparent rule people can claim Irish citizenship for generation after generation without any of them ever coming here.

RobYourBuilder

You obviously don't know very many university lecturers if you think my frustration at seeing people waste the opportunity they are being given is unique. It's pretty much per for the course and comes with the territory. I'm sure if you were faced with a class of young men and women reeking of alcohol on a Wednesday afternoon you would take a more sanguine approach.

Perhaps they need a few liveners to sit through your class? Just a thought. I don't know where you teach but it was very rare for anyone to be buzzed in class when I went to university. If they were really badly hungover, they just wouldn't show up.

I am angry at selfish, mean spirited, me me me people. Yes.

They only person ranting on about themselves in this thread and giving their life story is you, you, you. Does that make you a me me me person? Sounds that way.

I am angry at people who are so ignorant of what life was like before social welfare that they want to return to those days.

Nobody said anything of the sort.

As an Irish person living in Ireland I would hope that given our history we could show a bit more compassion. Instead  of the comments here are reminiscent of as those uttered during the Famine about the Irish poor. 'Why should they get money for nothing'. 'Lazy and workshy' - the words used to justify getting starving people to build roads to nowhere and burn off more calories than they could possible get from the corn gruel they could afford from the pittance they were paid.
 of the people here strike me as the kind who would have been happy to jack up the prices of basic food items when they saw the road workers approach to buy food. 

Again, nobody said anything of the sort. It seems to me that you are arguing against statements that have never been made.

RobYourBuilder

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Refused refugee status but allowed to remain anyway?

I'm going to need to see some proof of that.

As for marrying an E.U. citizen and being given leave to stay. That is no different from marrying a U.S. citizen and being given leave to stay there - or the other way around. It's a fairly standard practice and not unique to Ireland.

You have provided the figures for those who are given refugee status. I have provided the figures for those that are deported. Where do you think the 10,000s of others went?

Except entering a sham marriage is a felony in America. Not so in Ireland. It is not illegal here to enter into a sham marriage for money. We have been labelled the sham marriage capital of Europe. Even the European Commission have been at our government over this.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/icrime/documentary-says-one-in-six-civil-marriages-are-fake-167196.html
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/wanted-eu-bride-for-marriage-of-convenience-26627925.html

As for our citizenship at birth laws. 79% of the electorate voted in a referendum to have them fall in line with the rest of Europe.