Budget 2015 [De wan an' only thread!]

Bannasidhe

RobYourBuilder wrote: »

Perhaps they need a few liveners to sit through your class? Just a thought. I don't know where you teach but it was very rare for anyone to be buzzed in class when I went to university. If they were really badly hungover, they just wouldn't show up.



They only person ranting on about themselves in this thread and giving their life story is you, you, you. Does that make you a me me me person? Sounds that way.



Nobody said anything of the sort.



Again, nobody said anything of the sort. It seems to me that you are arguing against statements that have never been made.

Apparently you haven't read the whole thread.

Why don't you toddle off and do that rather than lob personal insults in my direction. Or is resorting to insults your idea of discussion?

Tis a poor substitute for wit.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

"I pay the most tax!! My job pays so much better than everyone else's!"
Despite y'kno not knowing everyone's situation.
"I'm a lesbian! I had to seek asylum in another country".
Um, isn't this a thread about the budget?

RobYourBuilder

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Apparently you haven't read the whole thread.

Why don't you toddle off and do that rather than lob personal insults in my direction. Or is resorting to insults your idea of discussion?

Tis a poor substitute for wit.

I didn't insult you. The persecution complex is very strong in you. If you are a teacher and your students are constantly coming in locked, there is something very foooking wrong there.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Apparently you haven't read the whole thread.

Why don't you toddle off and do that rather than lob personal insults in my direction. Or is resorting to insults your idea of discussion?

Tis a poor substitute for wit.

Except you're not really having a discussion, are you?

DamagedTrax

LexieOnRale wrote: »

"I pay the most tax!! My job pays so much better than everyone else's!"

actually, given the figures bandied about earlier, it probably didnt take her 5 minutes to figure out what % she's in. damn good to hear more higher earners forgetting their own needs and making the case for others.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

DamagedTrax wrote: »

actually, given the figures bandied about earlier, it probably didnt take her 5 minutes to figure out what % she's in. damn good to hear more higher earners forgetting their own needs and making the case for others.

And what about people who've paid extortionate tax in the sale of land or in inheritance tax?

RobYourBuilder

DamagedTrax wrote: »

actually, given the figures bandied about earlier, it probably didnt take her 5 minutes to figure out what % she's in. damn good to hear more higher earners forgetting their own needs and making the case for others.

If her sister is that badly stuck and she earns so much perhaps she can throw her the few shillings instead of expecting the state to. Words on the internet are cheap.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

RobYourBuilder wrote: »

If her sister is that badly stuck and she earns so much perhaps she can throw her the few shillings instead of expecting the state to. Words on the internet are cheap.

Pretty vulgar too, for someone who says she doesn't mind paying her tax she sure goes on about it. What's that saying about protesting too much?

DamagedTrax

LexieOnRale wrote: »

And what about people who've paid extortionate tax in the sale of land or in inheritance tax?

im not sure what that has to do with any of this? (being one of them myself btw)

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

DamagedTrax wrote: »

im not sure what that has to do with any of this? (being one of them myself btw)

It's all tax, isn't it? You have one poster saying she's paying the most tax so has more of an opinion on how it's spent. Didn't realise one person was keeping the entire nation afloat.

Nino Brown

LexieOnRale wrote: »

It's all tax, isn't it? You have one poster saying she's paying the most tax so has more of an opinion on how it's spent. Didn't realise one person was keeping the entire nation afloat.

It we were just spending tax revenue it wouldn't be a problem, but we're borrowing from future generations to buy presents for this one.

Bannasidhe

RobYourBuilder wrote: »

You have provided the figures for those who are given refugee status. I have provided the figures for those that are deported. Where do you think the 10,000s of others went?

Except entering a sham marriage is a felony in America. Not so in Ireland. It is not illegal here to enter into a sham marriage for money. We have been labelled the sham marriage capital of Europe. Even the European Commission have been at our government over this.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/icrime/documentary-says-one-in-six-civil-marriages-are-fake-167196.html
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/wanted-eu-bride-for-marriage-of-convenience-26627925.html

As for our citizenship at birth laws. 79% of the electorate voted in a referendum to have them fall in line with the rest of Europe.

For the last time.

I was responding to a poster who claimed asylum seekers get the dole and live in council housing.

They do not. This is a fact.

Those granted refugees status can claim the dole and get council houses. This is a fact.

Ireland has the second lowest percentage in Europe of applications granted. This is a fact.

I have provided the links.

You claimed that those denied refugee status get to stay anyway. You have not provided any supporting evidence to support this.

I did not claim there were no marriages of convenience in Ireland. I asked for proof that 'The vast majority are refused asylum, due to their claims being bogus, and then exhaust the appeals process. They then get leave to remain' is true.

It is a very specific claim that those who are denied refugee status are still allowed to remain.

If they are allowed to remain due to having married an E.U. citizen E.U. citizen then they gain the right to stay by virtue of marriage. That is the law since 2008 when the existing law was struck down by the European Court of Justice. If you have a problem with that - enquire from the government when the laws to prevent marriage of convenience being drafted in 2012 will be enacted.

However - none of this has anything to do with the fact that asylum seekers do not claim the dole or live in council flats.

DamagedTrax

LexieOnRale wrote: »

It's all tax, isn't it? You have one poster saying she's paying the most tax so has more of an opinion on how it's spent. Didn't realise one person was keeping the entire nation afloat.

i think you're misrepresenting what she said there. thats not how it came across to me.

Bannasidhe

LexieOnRale wrote: »

It's all tax, isn't it? You have one poster saying she's paying the most tax so has more of an opinion on how it's spent. Didn't realise one person was keeping the entire nation afloat.

I assume you are talking about me.

Care to say where I said I am paying the most tax?

I said I am in the highest tax bracket and pay more tax than many commentating here. You know, those commentators who don't want their tax spent on a Xmas bonus or child benefit.

I certainly pay more tax than lexie in Canada who has no problem whatsoever commenting. So would people on the SW who are paying indirect taxes like VAT but hey lexie in Canada you have your say there even though it doesn't impact on you in any way shape or form.

Apparently one is only allowed to comment on how one would prefer one's contribution to the State coffers is distributed if one doesn't want it spent on SW or actually live here.

Funny kinda democracy.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

I'm in Canada eh?! news to me. Wow, I hope I have an exciting adventure!!

osarusan

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I assume you are talking about me.

Care to say where I said I am paying the most tax?

I said I am in the highest tax bracket and pay more tax than many commentating here. You know, those commentators who don't want their tax spent on a Xmas bonus or child benefit.

I certainly pay more tax than lexie in Canada who has no problem whatsoever commenting. So would people on the SW who are paying indirect taxes like VAT but hey lexie in Canada you have your say there even though it doesn't impact on you in any way shape or form.

Apparently one is only allowed to comment on how one would prefer one's contribution to the State coffers is distributed if one doesn't want it spent on SW or actually live here.

Funny kinda democracy.

I agree with you on the social issues, but this is a bit silly. It's a message board - everybody can comment. None of the comments are worth anything really, irrelevant of how much tax they pay (if any), and there isn't really any reason why a person's opinion should count more, be more valid, or be more deserving of respect, if they pay more tax than somebody else.*



*Said by me, who doesn't pay any tax in Ireland.

Bannasidhe

Nino Brown wrote: »

It we were just spending tax revenue it wouldn't be a problem, but we're borrowing from future generations to buy presents for this one.

Nah - we are borrowing from future generations to give tax breaks to multinationals that are denied to indigenous companies and to pay the bulk of the bailout for European banks and, of course, save the euro like good little lapdogs.

We are also paying back what the previous generation borrowed so Jack Lynch could buy an election, so Charlie Haughey could play the part of a Chieftain and Charlie McCreevy could subsidise the gee-gee breeders.

Oh - and the legal fees for all those tribunals.

Germany recently finished paying off the borrowings needed when a previous generation got involved in a world war - no, not the one they started. The one before that when they borrowed from a future generation so the Kaiser could have a fancy army and fight his cousins. Future generations in Germany will pay for the one when the Austrian with the silly moustache tried to take over the world.

Do you think only Ireland borrows from future generation?
It's the whole foundation of western economies.

Bannasidhe

osarusan wrote: »

I agree with you on the social issues, but this is a bit silly. It's a message board - everybody can comment. None of the comments are worth anything really, irrelevant of how much tax they pay (if any), and there isn't really any reason why a person's opinion should count more, be more valid, or be more deserving of respect, if they pay more tax than somebody else.*



*Said by me, who doesn't pay any tax in Ireland.

I only mentioned that I do pay a lot of tax in response to the 'my tax going on dole scroungers' comments to demonstrate that some people (well, me anyway) don't have a problem with SW. I know there are people milking the system. Drives me mad. But I would prefer the system remain as there are so many more who are genuine and they are vast the majority.

I really 'uckin hate all that money going to bloody political 'advisers' though. Rabble Rabble marmalade rabble rabble. Oh...and politicians expenses... fecking scroungers.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Bannasidhe

LexieOnRale wrote: »

I'm in Canada eh?! news to me. Wow, I hope I have an exciting adventure!!

You should go there so.

My niece was there...

actually...now that I think about it she hated it so maybe don't go. She may have hated it as she is Swiss. Strange people the Swiss.

I may have gotten you mixed up with someone else.

Point remains however that not every tax payer has an issue with SW payments and that includes tax payers in the higher tax brackets and we have as much right to say 'I think SW is a good thing and I am glad it is there' as others have to say ' don't want my tax going to people on the dole cos 'scroungers' '

Bannasidhe

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Thankfully so do you.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Bannasidhe wrote: »

You should go there so.

My niece was there...

actually...now that I think about it she hated it so maybe don't go. She may have hated it as she is Swiss. Strange people the Swiss.

I may have gotten you mixed up with someone else.

Point remains however that not every tax payer has an issue with SW payments and that includes tax payers in the higher tax brackets and we have as much right to say 'I think SW is a good thing and I am glad it is there' as others have to say ' don't want my tax going to people on the dole cos 'scroungers' '

I have absolutely no issue with the social welfare being paid to genuine people, people who've worked and fallen on hard times, people who can't work because they're ill or disabled or caring for same, people who would love nothing more than to be self sufficient.

What leaves a bitter taste in my mouth is the fact I've been working since I was 16, retail jobs mostly before my "real job", and I see SO MANY girls who I went to school with who have never worked. That's not even an exaggeration. There's one girl I know quite well, she's 25 years old. She's never worked. Not once, not even for a few days. She's been on the dole for 7 years. She has a leaving cert, and 3 dropped out of courses.

She spends her days on Facebook, in her parents council house, complaining about the "fuggin foreigners" who's taking all the jobs and the social welfare, complaining about the government for taking Christmas benefits and when the dole was cut from over 200 down to 188 she was furious because she had broadband and a sky bill to pay.

Her sisters 22, no better, she didn't finish school, has no job or not inclined to find one. If you look at her parents, they're exactly the same, I know the girls 20 odd years and as long as I've known them their parents didn't work either.

If you go out on a Monday, you'll find both of them propping up a bar. And Tuesday. And Wednesday if they still have money.

Another couple I know, have a lovely apartment paid for by the rent allowance, neither of them have jobs (although she did a course last year) both of them on the dole and she's never worked, he hasn't worked since the buildings when he was 18, (he's 29 now)

That's not even all the people I could list out. The girls who got pregnant in school, the girls who had kids after school and were happy enough to not go back to work.

Meanwhile, there's us - I'm just finally getting well paid in my job, moving away from base salary, working from home, working my 'hobbie job' a few hours, my OH who owns his own home, has his own car, works so hard for everything he has and if the government was to ride him anymore they might as well slap a saddle on him.

When you're starting out its like the harder you try the more that'll be taken from you and the less you want to help yourself the better off you seem to be.

Lalealea

All this for a Budget that is not that much different from last years.

Iwasfrozen

125% of GNP in debt and we're giving the unemployed a bonus.

Oh Ireland, you never change. :rolleyes:

jank

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I now, for my sins, teach the younger generation.

What I see day in day out are groups of young men and women receiving a highly subsidised third level education who drink their grants and do everything possible to avoid anything that smacks of education.

I have a folder just of granny died excuses (one poor guy lost a granny a month for 6 months) for not completing assignments.

Oh, we do get some excellent students. Gifted students. These are also usually, but not exclusively, mature students - or students with dyslexia or other learning difficulties, they tend to really really put the work in. But not that many. Maybe 15 out of 500 in a good year.
Then we get the majority who will do only the bare minimum needed to scrape a 2.2 and then there are the wasters. The gang who can't even pass first year.

Then there are the Americans. I love the Americans. They are engaged. They participate. They turn up for lectures. They do their assignments. They also, coincidentally, pay a hell of a lot for their precious degrees and are determined not to waste their time or money. The ones we get are paying around 30,000 a year.

It strikes me as hypocritical that there are probably people here complaining about the Xmas bonus who availed of a third level education system where their college degree tuition cost them a max of 9 grand in total and some of them may have paid nothing at all and received a grant from the State to help keep the publicans afloat.

A younger generation with a staggering sense of entitlement complaining about scroungers. Only in Ireland.

I'm from the generation who paid for our college degrees from undergrad to postgrad and now I am part of the generation who is paying the high rates of tax and have been doing so for decades.

Given the choice I would rather pay those on SW a full weeks bonus even if it means some 'dole lifers never worked a day' get it too than pay the college tuition fees for some over privileged grind school 'educated' driving beer swilling 'student'.

That is a good argument to scrap the free fees scheme but the left would $hit themselves if that ever happened. But you are right, free fees is a joke.

jank

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Spent 2 years living in Oz - had a permanent visa - got free health care from the moment my foot hit the ground. Hardly nothing as I am a diabetic.

Skilled Migrant Visa? What made you go back to Ireland?

Valetta

DamagedTrax wrote: »

they do.

from RTE themselves.

When is that quote from?

I cannot find any source that says the Germam parliment get to see or approve the Irish budget.

jank

ON the budget it self, I find it amazing that Ireland still operates this "budget day" style of politics. We lap it up. Its showbiz stuff that no other country engages in.

Its depressing to be honest the way this budget was handled. Give away's to all concerned and people are still not happy. We deserve everything we get in the future tbh. Making the same mistakes again and again. Christmas bonus? What a joke. Next year it will be even worse. Its no way to run a country.

ThisRegard

jank wrote: »

Its showbiz stuff that no other country engages in.

The UK does for starters, and Australia does too during the evening. I'm sure many others do too.

_Kaiser_

Not 24 hours later and there's more "good" news....

Michael Noonan has hinted that the Universal Social Charge might never be abolished.
The Minister says the charge brings in too much money, and that it is easier to change than income taxes.

Can't say I'm really surprised, but disgusted none the less - and yet Kenny and co still claim they haven't hiked income tax! :mad:

yipeeeee

Bloody foreigners again.

jank

ThisRegard wrote: »

The UK does for starters, and Australia does too during the evening. I'm sure many others do too.

You are wrong about Australia. Budget day comes and goes and most of the talk is about the deficit and balancing the books. Not Christmas bonuses, child allowance or easy hand outs. In OZ, the debate centralises around strategic objectives over a number of years like grants to Science R&D, new fighter jets, GST reform, welfare reform, implementing or scraping the Gonski report, educational allowances for young people and so on .......how they are going to be paid for, what taxes need to be raised, cuts that need to happen to pay them.

This year there was a big reign in on spending (like a co payment for GP visits) so naturally many people were giving out about it, however the process is more transparent, more democratic as it has to pass the Senate (with actual powers!) and there is always, ALWAYS a multi-year plan. The budget is not signed sealed and delivered like in Ireland. If the government doesn't have a majority in the Senate then they have to negotiate on some things for the budget to pass.

I spent sometime in NZ as well and could not tell you when the budget was or what it contained. It came and went without too much fuss.

In Ireland budget day is a circus.

ThisRegard

jank wrote: »

You are wrong about Australia. Budget day comes and goes and most of the talk is about the deficit and balancing the books

The do broadcast it, or some of it, live though ? I've never seen it, but I thought you were talking about stopping 'budget day' completely ?

yipeeeee

If I hear accessible affordable housing once more.

There was 80 people sleeping rough last year each night.

We have it so good, people have no idea.

anncoates

Thread is at least good for the hilarious apoplexy about the usual soft targets.

Dutch Gold elevenses anyone? This children's allowance /dole /bonus won't spend itself, you know.

yipeeeee

Close to a billion in foreign aid, don't forget.

jank

ThisRegard wrote: »

The do broadcast it, or some of it, live though ? I've never seen it, but I thought you were talking about stopping 'budget day' completely ?

Of course they broadcast it. However, its like most other days in the Australian parliament. There is nowhere near the hype surrounding it as in Ireland. A thread like this would never happen in an Aussie boards. Instead certain aspects of the budget would be discussed as most budgets are set in multi year time frames, so each year there is not that much to be changed. Again, the debate is more strategic rather than short term reactive voting buying exercises.

smash

yipeeeee wrote: »

If I hear accessible affordable housing once more.

There was 80 people sleeping rough last year each night.

We have it so good, people have no idea.

Not bad given the size of the population :pac:

wretcheddomain

kerryguy78 wrote: »

I know bashing the jobless is an easy target, but last Friday i walked in to a pub to have a drink before i went home from work, 3 dolers were sitting at the counter turned around and one said to me, "are you working at all today or what?". In other words what are you doing in a pub at this hour of the day. These dolers sit in that pub at least five days a week moaning about how hard done by they are!!!!!

You must visit the same pub yourself often enough to know this. :eek:

ThisRegard

jank wrote: »

Of course they broadcast it. However, its like most other days in the Australian parliament. There is nowhere near the hype surrounding it as in Ireland. A thread like this would never happen in an Aussie boards. Instead certain aspects of the budget would be discussed as most budgets are set in multi year time frames, so each year there is not that much to be changed. Again, the debate is more strategic rather than short term reactive voting buying exercises.

Sounds very boring

Uriel.

jank wrote: »

ON the budget it self, I find it amazing that Ireland still operates this "budget day" style of politics. We lap it up. Its showbiz stuff that no other country engages in.

Its depressing to be honest the way this budget was handled. Give away's to all concerned and people are still not happy. We deserve everything we get in the future tbh. Making the same mistakes again and again. Christmas bonus? What a joke. Next year it will be even worse. Its no way to run a country.

I like it to be honest and hope it stays.

It provides a very clear, well covered (by media etc.) statement of how our finances are being organised for the next 12 months, and gives a clear indication as to the impact (good, bad or indifferent) to a citizen's pay and expenditure.

You can hear from all the main parties (and others) as to what they believe are the problems with the budget (allowing individuals who wish to engage, decide which parties make some sense and which don't).

I also think that the hype surrounding budget days creates a platform for interest for the people and as result drives the media into widespread discussion, analysis, opinion, expert input etc. which I think is really useful for citizens to listen to (alternatively they can switch off the tv/radio or close the newspaper).

I think it would be useful for the budget to provide the detail of the following year's income/expenditure by Government and a skeleton outline of the following two years (or a roadmap in political speak), where an indication of the direction of future budgets is provided with the detail to be completed the following year, depending on how things develop over the following 12 months. I think we are moving in this direction, but I'd like to see it play a bigger role

Riskymove

Bannasidhe wrote: »

If and when they do and if they are refused funding bitch away until then, give it a rest.

just to point out that it wasn't me who was making any of the points you seem to be upset about

jank

ThisRegard wrote: »

Sounds very boring

Boring can be good. Just look at the Germans.

Stojkovic

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Doesn't matter.

Gainfully employed so you lose.

Kindly donate to TREOIR charity # CHY No. 8877. The single parents will appreciate it.

Your do pay your gambling debts don't you...

No Ive never paid gambling debts because I've never had any.

Donation made to The Dogs Trust.

renegademaster

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

125% of GNP in debt and we're giving the unemployed a bonus.

Oh Ireland, you never change. :rolleyes:

tryin to buy some peace but the irish are awake now and are willing and able to fight back!! :pac:

jank wrote: »

ON the budget it self, I find it amazing that Ireland still operates this "budget day" style of politics. We lap it up. Its showbiz stuff that no other country engages in.

Its depressing to be honest the way this budget was handled. Give away's to all concerned and people are still not happy. We deserve everything we get in the future tbh. Making the same mistakes again and again. Christmas bonus? What a joke. Next year it will be even worse. Its no way to run a country.

give-away budget? which budget were you watching?

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Not 24 hours later and there's more "good" news....



Can't say I'm really surprised, but disgusted none the less - and yet Kenny and co still claim they haven't hiked income tax! :mad:

the people are coming for them now, nothing is going to stop us! :pac:

Valetta

jank wrote: »

Boring can be good. Just look at the Germans.

Germany are heading for negative growth and recession.

They're also ****e at football.

What's good about that?

Stojkovic

Valetta wrote: »

Germany are heading for negative growth and recession.

They're also ****e at football.

What's good about that?

Erdinger !!!!

Caliden

Stojkovic wrote: »

Erdinger !!!!

Paulaner tbf

Dravokivich

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Not 24 hours later and there's more "good" news....



Can't say I'm really surprised, but disgusted none the less - and yet Kenny and co still claim they haven't hiked income tax! :mad:

The Stealth Taxes of McCreevy return in another guise!

Iwasfrozen

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Not 24 hours later and there's more "good" news....



Can't say I'm really surprised, but disgusted none the less - and yet Kenny and co still claim they haven't hiked income tax! :mad:

Don't worry. Income tax is only a temporary measure to finance the Napoleonic wars.