Parents of disabled child openly regret not having an abortion

Afroshack

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2789413/couple-say-not-gone-pregnancy-known-pain-disabled-child-endure.html

From the article:

'Born with severe micrognathia, a condition that causes an undersized jaw and acute breathing difficulties, Dylan needs round-the-clock care.

Sitting at Jill's side, husband Iain nods in agreement. 'We made it clear to the doctors that we didn't want a child who wasn't going to be able to ride a bike and do things that normal children do,' he says.

We have no pensions, no money, no house and no job prospects. But we love our son. He's amazing and we're going to give him the best life we can.'
But Jill cannot deny that the most difficult thing she will face in the future is telling her son that she would have aborted him if she could. 'It'll be a hard conversation,' she admits. 'Saying to your son, 'When you were 20 weeks we would have had a termination.' It's awful and I hate saying it out loud. But that's what we would have wanted.'

I had a really mixed reaction to this. Whilst I am firstly and foremost pro-choice and I believe every woman should always have a right to choose, the last part about telling their son they would rather he was aborted really shocked me. I cannot imagine the difficulties they have faced and yes, losing your home trying to care for your son is a really horrible thing to go through. However, why would you ever tell him that? Or worse, go to a national newspaper and publicly declare you wish he wasn't there? The part about only wanting a 'normal' baby was a bit sad too.

The One Doctor

You don't tell a kid that sort of thing. Not without earning their infinite hatred.

padd b1975

The One Doctor wrote: »

You don't tell a kid that sort of thing. Not without earning their infinite hatred.

You certainly don't blab to a newspaper first either.

Buona Fortuna

The One Doctor wrote: »

You don't tell a kid that sort of thing. Not without earning their infinite hatred.

Some things are best left unsaid

MagicMarker

It's the daily mail FFS.

I would like to see the question they were responding to when they said they, it's been conveniently left out.

Donkey Oaty

Easy solution: they can tell their kid not to believe anything that is written in the Daily Mail.

wretcheddomain

Abortion is a human right regardless of what any government or "Holy" book says.

Kidchameleon

wretcheddomain wrote: »

Abortion is a human right regardless of what any government or "Holy" book says.

Where in the bible does it specifically say abortion is wrong?

TomoBhoy

Once you have walked a mile in those parents shoes feel free to comment but you have not

mickydoomsux

Fair play to them for being honest rather than pretending it's a blessing or some such

MagicMarker

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Where in the bible does it specifically say abortion is wrong?

Where did he say the bible says it's wrong?

WellThen?

I mean, yes the fact that it is written down looks bad but I would expect a lot of parents would feel this way. They love their child but if they knew the extent while pregnant then they would of decided different. Just honesty.

Rothko

Why would they tell the child that?

highgiant1985

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Where in the bible does it specifically say abortion is wrong?

While not my view point it could be suggested that its one of the ten commandments, Thou shall not kill.

Turtyturd

Bad form if they did actually tell the child, but I reckon they are just saying what a lot of parents in that situation are thinking.

Nobody wants a disabled child, sure people adapt and still love their children but in the beginning everyone is hoping their child is healthy. I think a lot of people who say they wouldn't change them for the world are lying to themselves a little.

humbert

If it wasn't a paper with such integrity I would assume they were paid for the story. Hopefully enough people will get good and angry about it to make it work the Daily Mail's time.

bitburger

Maybe they are just playing up to it for the Pounds and actually have no intention of ever saying such a thing

Its Only Ray Parlour

Euthanasia should be legalised for situations like this.

seamus

highgiant1985 wrote: »

While not my view point it could be suggested that its one of the ten commandments, Thou shall not kill.

Not really. The bible doesn't consider a foetus to be human.
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/says_about/abortion.html

In this particular case, while I applaud these parents for saying what a lot of other parents think, there's a lot that's not adding up.

She quit her job to become his full-time carer. OK, that's understandable. But then they decided, "You know what, we've got one salary and a child who needs 24 hour care, sure feck it why don't we just throw another child in there who has a 25% chance of developing the same condition. You quit your job too and we'll be hunky fncking dory".

These people are clearly idiots. The fact that they talked to the Daily Mail is enough to determine that, but the fact that they've deliberately chosen to get themselves into bankruptcy and then whinge about the consequences, confirms their stupidity.

Shakespeare's Sister

TomoBhoy wrote: »

Once you have walked a mile in those parents shoes feel free to comment but you have not

Shur that could be said about any discussion ever - what's with these discussion-ending comments. Seen a few of them of late.

Nothing wrong with them considering a termination/not wanting their child to be seriously ill... and yet they still went ahead and had him, and clearly love him very much. Some people are gleefully leaving this out - the newspaper headline and people who are mad into telling the world they're "not PC" and think disabled children should all be aborted and that everyone should agree with them.

But why would they tell him they considered aborting him? What is the necessity for doing this? What could it possibly serve?
I mean, telling someone they're adopted, that their father isn't their biological father... these are difficult things to tell your child but you have to tell them, to be fair.
But telling them you were thinking of aborting them... no reason whatsoever, other than to be controversial. Probably more to the article than meets the eye.

Afroshack

TomoBhoy wrote: »

Once you have walked a mile in those parents shoes feel free to comment but you have not

I don't think there's anything that justifies a parent telling their own child 'I should have aborted you.'

salamanca22

Ahh here, they had doubts during the pregnancy and now love their child once it was born. I would say at least 50% of couples have the same doubts when they find that they are pregnant.

Non issue.

Its Only Ray Parlour

Afroshack wrote: »

I don't think there's anything that justifies a parent telling their own child 'I should have aborted you.'

Unless the child was mentally able to wish he was never born himself.

herisson

I don't understand why they have to say that to the child.

If they want him to have the best possible life, then why tell him.

It would destroy him, to be told by his parents that they should have aborted him.

If it were me, I'd feel worthless and like **** to know my parents regret aborting me.

I'm pro choice but I really don't think there is a need to tell the poor kid.

bb1234567

I understand where theyre coming from, and I even might agree with them but..telling their child they wanted to abort him? why?? like what good will come of this? He doesnt need to know and its only going to make the child feel guilty and hate himself for being a burden on his parents:(

You'd have to be incredibly cruel and heartless to tell your child that you wish you had killed him. It's just a horrible and inhumane thing to say, no matter what illness your child suffers.

Mint Sauce

Adoption?

TheSheriff

Outrageous article

If anyone ever googles their child this will turn up and will follow him for his whole life

Squeedily Spooch

"It will be a difficult conversation" Ummm...why is there even a need for that conversation? Do ANY parents sit their child down and go "well we didn't plan on having kids and you were an accident sooo..sleep tight sweetie"?

MagicMarker

Mint Sauce wrote: »

Adoption?

Know anyone looking to adopt a disabled child?

iguana

The article states that they were trying to sue the NHS in some sort of 'wrongful birth' suit. So due to that there is no way that the boy won't eventually discover that his parents would have aborted him rather than had him if they had known the extent of his disabilities. In that case it's best that the child hear it from them than discover it during a google search in the future.

Knine

Its Only Ray Parlour wrote: »

Euthanasia should be legalised for situations like this.

Really? So my child should be put down?

So who gets to decide the criteria for execution? Or will it depend on how much a burden to society an individual is?

My child is a valuable member of society. She has taught me a hell of a lot since her birth. I never take anything for granted any more. She has as much right to be here as you have.

The Strawman Argument

Deleted User wrote: »

You'd have to be incredibly cruel and heartless to tell your child that you wish you had killed him.

...I thought most parents regularly say things like this when they're annoyed?:(

Not sure what the parents are playing at being so public about it and it is the Daily Mail, but the way there's a kind of (completely understandable) whitewashing over the possibility that choosing to keep a severely disabled child might completely ruin your life does always sit a bit uneasily with me too.



Replying to someone else here, I don't see anything inherently wrong with telling a child they're an accident. There's nothing stopping you from loving a child which came from an accidental pregnancy just as much or more than another person might love a very carefully planned child.

Knine

Knine wrote: »

Really? So my child should be put down?

So who gets to decide the criteria for execution? Or will it depend on how much a burden to society an individual is?

My child is a valuable member of society. She has taught me a hell of a lot since her birth. I never take anything for granted any more. She has as much right to be here as you have.

They said it should be legalised, not that it should be mandatory.

genericguy

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Fair play to them for being honest rather than pretending it's a blessing or some such

True true. So many sanctimonious pricks going round harping on about such 'blessings' that you'd wonder why everyone wouldn't want a disabled child.

RobertKK

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Where in the bible does it specifically say abortion is wrong?

In the old testament, 'before I formed you in the womb I knew you' combined with 'thou shalt not kill'.

RobertKK

The problem is not the child. The problem the child has is a stupid mother, one doesn't need to be open about things when the consequences are not good and based on something not done.

Afroshack

Mint Sauce wrote: »

Adoption?

Doubt anyone would want to take on the stress of a disabled child. It's really sad that there's some sort of criteria that would make a child almost adopt-able but too many couples only seem to want young, healthy babies.

Rezident

I don't see how they can love him and wish they had had him terminated. Anytime someone uses the word 'but' after 'I love you' it detracts from the love bit. This being one of the worst examples of it: 'I love you but I wish you were dead'. That's not love.

mrsbyrne

RobertKK wrote: »

The problem is not the child. The problem the child has is a stupid mother, one doesn't need to be open about things when the consequences are not good and based on something not done.

Sadly I need a licence to keep my dog but any idiot is allowed to take a baby home fRom the hospital.

Ficheall

Rezident wrote: »

I don't see how they can love him and wish they had had him terminated. Anytime someone uses the word 'but' after 'I love you' it detracts from the love bit. This being one of the worst examples of it: 'I love you but I wish you were dead'. That's not love.

It could be - "I love you, but had I known you would have had to endure such a ****ty life, I wouldn't have put you through it."

Turtyturd

mrsbyrne wrote: »

Sadly I need a licence to keep my dog but any idiot is allowed to take a baby home fRom the hospital.

That's a lazy argument, any idiot can get a dog licence.

my teapot is orange

Afroshack wrote: »

I had a really mixed reaction to this. Whilst I am firstly and foremost pro-choice and I believe every woman should always have a right to choose, the last part about telling their son they would rather he was aborted really shocked me. I cannot imagine the difficulties they have faced and yes, losing your home trying to care for your son is a really horrible thing to go through. However, why would you ever tell him that? Or worse, go to a national newspaper and publicly declare you wish he wasn't there? The part about only wanting a 'normal' baby was a bit sad too.

Because they need the DM money.

Shakespeare's Sister

They still said also "we love our son. He's amazing and we're going to give him the best life we can" which goes to show it's not cut and dry.
I'd say plenty of people who have disabled children were not happy about the prospect but didn't want to abort either (abortion is not a decision everyone can just decide to take on board) and have ended up adoring the child.
Not fair IMO to deem people's claims of a "blessing" as a lie always.
People who cannot countenance any up side - fair enough, that's their opinion, but they shouldn't presume to speak for everyone else - and don't know what a parent's true view will be after the child is born, until they are that parent.

Kidchameleon

MagicMarker wrote: »

Where did he say the bible says it's wrong?

Where did "he" mention he was a he? Like you I made an assumption....

RobertKK wrote: »

In the old testament, 'before I formed you in the womb I knew you' combined with 'thou shalt not kill'.

Precisely the point I was making.

Your interpretation is anti abortion, the book itself doesn't mention it.

DoYouEvenLift

Afroshack wrote: »

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2789413/couple-say-not-gone-pregnancy-known-pain-disabled-child-endure.html

From the article:

'Born with severe micrognathia, a condition that causes an undersized jaw and acute breathing difficulties, Dylan needs round-the-clock care.

Sitting at Jill's side, husband Iain nods in agreement. 'We made it clear to the doctors that we didn't want a child who wasn't going to be able to ride a bike and do things that normal children do,' he says.

We have no pensions, no money, no house and no job prospects. But we love our son. He's amazing and we're going to give him the best life we can.'
But Jill cannot deny that the most difficult thing she will face in the future is telling her son that she would have aborted him if she could. 'It'll be a hard conversation,' she admits. 'Saying to your son, 'When you were 20 weeks we would have had a termination.' It's awful and I hate saying it out loud. But that's what we would have wanted.'

I had a really mixed reaction to this. Whilst I am firstly and foremost pro-choice and I believe every woman should always have a right to choose, the last part about telling their son they would rather he was aborted really shocked me. I cannot imagine the difficulties they have faced and yes, losing your home trying to care for your son is a really horrible thing to go through. However, why would you ever tell him that? Or worse, go to a national newspaper and publicly declare you wish he wasn't there? The part about only wanting a 'normal' baby was a bit sad too.

Why would they even have a kid then? Regardless of whether or not your child was normal, if those are your circumstances you shouldn't be even thinking about having a child.

foggy_lad

Afroshack wrote: »

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2789413/couple-say-not-gone-pregnancy-known-pain-disabled-child-endure.html

From the article:

'Born with severe micrognathia, a condition that causes an undersized jaw and acute breathing difficulties, Dylan needs round-the-clock care.

Sitting at Jill's side, husband Iain nods in agreement. 'We made it clear to the doctors that we didn't want a child who wasn't going to be able to ride a bike and do things that normal children do,' he says.

We have no pensions, no money, no house and no job prospects. But we love our son. He's amazing and we're going to give him the best life we can.'
But Jill cannot deny that the most difficult thing she will face in the future is telling her son that she would have aborted him if she could. 'It'll be a hard conversation,' she admits. 'Saying to your son, 'When you were 20 weeks we would have had a termination.' It's awful and I hate saying it out loud. But that's what we would have wanted.'

I had a really mixed reaction to this. Whilst I am firstly and foremost pro-choice and I believe every woman should always have a right to choose, the last part about telling their son they would rather he was aborted really shocked me. I cannot imagine the difficulties they have faced and yes, losing your home trying to care for your son is a really horrible thing to go through. However, why would you ever tell him that? Or worse, go to a national newspaper and publicly declare you wish he wasn't there? The part about only wanting a 'normal' baby was a bit sad too.

That last part about them telling their son that they would have aborted him if they had known just bolsters my belief that this is just more engineered pro-life propaganda that should be placed in the fire.

RobertKK

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Precisely the point I was making.

Your interpretation is anti abortion, the book itself doesn't mention it.

One can choose to switch their brain off and remove logic. In Genesis it says to be fruitful and multiply.
Abortion does not multiply the number of people born or allowed to be born.
Thou shalt not kill, abortion kills life.
Before I formed you in the womb I knew, says a person is part of God's creation and plan in the being fruitful and multiplying.

You can think the bible says nothing about abortion, but using logic it is quite clear.
That is all I am saying not going to go down a road where I have to argue where logic in interpretation is being removed because the word 'abortion' is not mentioned.
Abortion doesn't have to be mentioned as logic means it have to be be as people can put two and two together and get four, instead of getting five.
From the first book of the bible it says to multiply, in the second book it says to not kill...

That is all I need to say.

It is a bit like the woman who is going to tell her son about abortion....there are some things one don't need to do.
Logic says the mother in this case is wrong and it doesn't need to be said.
With what the bible says, the word abortion doesn't need to be said either for a different reason, it is quite clear it is against abortion.

mrsbyrne

Turtyturd wrote: »

That's a lazy argument, any idiot can get a dog licence.

...and every idiot can have a baby and they dontveven have to queue in the PO for a licence.

Turtyturd

mrsbyrne wrote: »

...and every idiot can have a baby and they dontveven have to queue in the PO for a licence.

What would the purpose of having to obtain a 'baby licence' be?

DoYouEvenLift

Turtyturd wrote: »

What would the purpose of having to obtain a 'baby licence' be?

It'd remove people's freedom of basically the most important human function but I could see some positives to needing to be approved for a license to reproduce, as long as it was a tougher process than going to the PO. If financial stability, for one, was a necessity then there'd be a lot less kids malnourished, unable to get higher quality education etc. It'd also probably help reduce kids being born into sh!t families that live in sh!t areas that'd more than likely result in another degenerate being raised with no morals or social standards taught to them.