Neil Lennon - New manager of Bolton Wanderers

DenMan

Just been announced!

I hope he does well with them!

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/29589068

The Letheram

Seems to be a good manager from what we have seen so far but the championship can be a real graveyard for managers as teams are so even anyone can take points from anywhere. He must have taken Bolton as a project though. Hope he does well. Comes across very likable.

keeponhurling

A project ?

DenMan

What shocked me is that it's seven and half years since Big Sam left Bolton. :eek:

antodeco

As a Bolton fan, I'm glad there's somebody in who at least has some.passion and drive. Freedman played very defensive football and was tactically inept at any teams who could play. Hopefully Lenton kicks a few of the players and makes them challenge for positions.

I also understand that he's signed a 12 month rolling contract, so cost of contract termination is not going to be an issue.

ctrl-alt-delete

antodeco wrote: »

As a Bolton fan, I'm glad there's somebody in who at least has some.passion and drive. Freedman played very defensive football and was tactically inept at any teams who could play. Hopefully Lenton kicks a few of the players and makes them challenge for positions.

I also understand that he's signed a 12 month rolling contract, so cost of contract termination is not going to be an issue.

Are Bolton still broke? He surely won't get much if anything to spend?

Going to be a very difficult job, but as you say he has passion and drive which does go a long way in the Championship.

Dozen Wicked Words

Seems an odd choice for Lennon. Taking over a team 160+ million in debt and bottom of the league, with a prickly chairman. He's on a hiding to nothing I fear.

antodeco

ctrl-alt-delete wrote: »

Are Bolton still broke? He surely won't get much if anything to spend?

Going to be a very difficult job, but as you say he has passion and drive which does go a long way in the Championship.

Yep. £150 million and climbing. This is why Freedman was kept for so long. They have no money to spend, but at the minute, alot of the players are playing as their job, as opposed to their desire.

Paully D

Good appointment for Bolton, horrendous move for Lennon.

CSF

Didn't realise Bolton's issues, sharp contrast from what he will be used to being the financial big dog at Celtic.

Interesting to see how it works out.

LiamoSail

I've seen very little evidence of Lennon having what it takes to be anything above an average manager.

At Celtic, winning the league can hardly be seen as much of an achievement for a manager. Irrespective of how Delia has started at Celtic, I think anyone would win the league there. He had an opportunity to try bring through a few younger players, but he was always reluctant to give them a chance. Even when the league was won, he seemed more concerned with preserving an unbeaten record then blooding young players.

Also worth nothing his record in the cups, abysmal at best.

In terms of signings, I don't know how much credit he can be given on basis of John park's role. Nobody knows whether he should be credited for the wanyama's, hooper's and Forster's or criticised for the Mo Banguara's.

His comment regarding the players diets were interesting, him not being too strict on their eating habits. To me this suggested a more old fashioned approach, one that is outdated, leading to the inference that his methods may be from a similar era too. While I'm only speculating on that, given his admiration for Martin O'Neill, and the time he spent playing for, its likely his methods would be more old school.

Aside from that one CL campaign, he managed little else. While he beat Barca in that famous game, he was also embarrassed by them in the 6-1 game, as he was by poor Ajax and Milan sides.

Lennon, to me, is the stereotype British manager. Up and at 'em lads, 110% etc. like others of that mould, I'd expect him to have an initial impact, but for results to tail off in the medium to longer term as the lack of depth to his methods is exposed.

I like Lennon, and love him to prove me wrong but on the basis of his years at Celtic, I can't see it

CSF

LiamoSail wrote: »

I've seen very little evidence of Lennon having what it takes to be anything above an average manager.

At Celtic, winning the league can hardly be seen as much of an achievement for a manager. Irrespective of how Delia has started at Celtic, I think anyone would win the league there. He had an opportunity to try bring through a few younger players, but he was always reluctant to give them a chance. Even when the league was won, he seemed more concerned with preserving an unbeaten record then blooding young players.

Also worth nothing his record in the cups, abysmal at best.

In terms of signings, I don't know how much credit he can be given on basis of John park's role. Nobody knows whether he should be credited for the wanyama's, hooper's and Forster's or criticised for the Mo Banguara's.

His comment regarding the players diets were interesting, him not being too strict on their eating habits. To me this suggested a more old fashioned approach, one that is outdated, leading to the inference that his methods may be from a similar era too. While I'm only speculating on that, given his admiration for Martin O'Neill, and the time he spent playing for, its likely his methods would be more old school.

Aside from that one CL campaign, he managed little else. While he beat Barca in that famous game, he was also embarrassed by them in the 6-1 game, as he was by poor Ajax and Milan sides.

Lennon, to me, is the stereotype British manager. Up and at 'em lads, 110% etc. like others of that mould, I'd expect him to have an initial impact, but for results to tail off in the medium to longer term as the lack of depth to his methods is exposed.

I like Lennon, and love him to prove me wrong but on the basis of his years at Celtic, I can't see it

Bit harsh, he hasn't really failed in anything so far, so there's nothing to suggest he won't rise to the next challenge. Far from certain that he will either though.

TheCitizen

LiamoSail wrote: »

I've seen very little evidence of Lennon having what it takes to be anything above an average manager.

At Celtic, winning the league can hardly be seen as much of an achievement for a manager. Irrespective of how Delia has started at Celtic, I think anyone would win the league there. He had an opportunity to try bring through a few younger players, but he was always reluctant to give them a chance. Even when the league was won, he seemed more concerned with preserving an unbeaten record then blooding young players.

Also worth nothing his record in the cups, abysmal at best.

In terms of signings, I don't know how much credit he can be given on basis of John park's role. Nobody knows whether he should be credited for the wanyama's, hooper's and Forster's or criticised for the Mo Banguara's.

His comment regarding the players diets were interesting, him not being too strict on their eating habits. To me this suggested a more old fashioned approach, one that is outdated, leading to the inference that his methods may be from a similar era too. While I'm only speculating on that, given his admiration for Martin O'Neill, and the time he spent playing for, its likely his methods would be more old school.

Aside from that one CL campaign, he managed little else. While he beat Barca in that famous game, he was also embarrassed by them in the 6-1 game, as he was by poor Ajax and Milan sides.

Lennon, to me, is the stereotype British manager. Up and at 'em lads, 110% etc. like others of that mould, I'd expect him to have an initial impact, but for results to tail off in the medium to longer term as the lack of depth to his methods is exposed.

I like Lennon, and love him to prove me wrong but on the basis of his years at Celtic, I can't see it

A lot of nonsense there.

LiamoSail

TheCitizen wrote: »

A lot of nonsense there.

So what young players did he bring through?

What evidence is there that he should be credited with the good signings, or even criticised for the bad?

What was his record in the cups?

Aside from that one CL campaign, what did he achieve above what you would expect an average manager to achieve?

I'm speculating obviously as I have said on his methods being more Brian Clough then Arsene Wenger, but that aside, everything else I've said is fact rather than just opinion

CSF

I've never seen 'maybe the good signings weren't his decision' used as a stick to beat a manager with before so it's use is coming off a little strange.

LiamoSail

CSF wrote: »

I've never seen 'maybe the good signings weren't his decision' used as a stick to beat a manager with before so it's use is coming off a little strange.

I didn't credit him with the good or criticise him for the bad. The reason being the role of John Park at Celtic. Park seems to be responsible for most of the signings

TheCitizen

LiamoSail wrote: »

So what young players did he bring through?

What evidence is there that he should be credited with the good signings, or even criticised for the bad?

What was his record in the cups?

Aside from that one CL campaign, what did he achieve above what you would expect an average manager to achieve?

I'm speculating obviously as I have said on his methods being more Brian Clough then Arsene Wenger, but that aside, everything else I've said is fact rather than just opinion

There was good results and bad results. If you're going to insist on concentrating only on the bad results then it's just going to read like he only had bad results - it will be totally inaccurate though and will make you look a bit silly and a bit weird.

On a domestic level he did everything that was expected, won the titles at a canter, breaking records and playing some good football at times, but could have won a few more Cups. What he did in Europe was more important, one great CL campaign, not so good in a very difficult Group the second time around. But he got them there to the Group Stages - which is the most important thing - they're not there at all this season.

I take it you're not a Celtic supporter. Most Celtic fans would wish he was still at Celtic. Don't know why he's taken over at Bolton, I thought he could've got a bigger job if he bided his time a bit, but I reckon he'll do well for them anyway.

You think he's more like Brian Clough than Arsene Wenger, is that supposed to be a criticism? If Brian Clough was around today, he'd probably still be the best manager in England.

TheCitizen

LiamoSail wrote: »

I didn't credit him with the good or criticise him for the bad. The reason being the role of John Park at Celtic. Park seems to be responsible for most of the signings

So why did you bring it up at all then.

bucketybuck

LiamoSail wrote: »

I've seen very little evidence of Lennon having what it takes to be anything above an average manager.

Your post just sounds like you have an agenda to be honest, it reads as if you made your mind up and then twisted the narrative to suit that opinion. As if all the bad things were Lennons fault but he got lucky with all the good things.

Fact is, Lennon did the job in front of him at Celtic and he did it well, he won his titles and he punched above his weight in Europe and there really isn't very much more can be said about it. You certainly cannot claim his record there as a bad thing, especially not when we are talking about going for the job at the likes of Bolton!

LiamoSail

TheCitizen wrote: »

There was good results and bad results. If you're going to insist on concentrating only on the bad results then it's just going to read like he only had bad results - it will be totally inaccurate though and will make you look a bit silly and a bit weird.

On a domestic level he did everything that was expected, won the titles at a canter, breaking records and playing some good football at times, but could have won a few more Cups. What he did in Europe was more important, one great CL campaign, not so good in a very difficult Group the second time around. But he got them there to the Group Stages - which is the most important thing - they're not there at all this season.

I take it you're not a Celtic supporter. Most Celtic fans would wish he was still at Celtic. Don't know why he's taken over at Bolton, I thought he could've got a bigger job if he bided his time a bit, but I reckon he'll do well for them anyway.

You think he's more like Brian Clough than Arsene Wenger, is that supposed to be a criticism? If Brian Clough was around today, he'd probably still be the best manager in England.

I'm not a proper Celtic fan, but i do like Celtic and get to a few games.

Domestically I don't disagree with you, but it always irked me that in a league that had won before a ball was kicked, he didn't focus more on bringing through younger players. In the end, he won the league every season as any other manager would have done. While you can't criticise him for meeting expectation, I don't think we should be going overboard with crediting him for those title wins either.

Lennon had four shots at Europe, one excellent campaign, one good one (last season) and two average to poor (UEFA cup and beaten by Braga in the qualifier). To his credit, the one great campaign had been the cumulation of side he built, and the following year was always likely to be difficult as the likes of Wanyama and Hooper left. He deserves credit for how Celtic did in Europe of course, but one swallow doesn't make a summer.

I said he's more Clough then Wenger in terms of approach, Wenger focusing on the sports science aspects of preparation, focusing on tactics etc, while Clough had the old fashioned, more straight forward approach. I don't think Clough's approach would work today for anybody other then Clough himself, which is what I was getting at with the Lennon comparison. Obviously not comparing managerial ability, just contrasting their respective styles.

LiamoSail

bucketybuck wrote: »

Your post just sounds like you have an agenda to be honest, it reads as if you made your mind up and then twisted the narrative to suit that opinion. As if all the bad things were Lennons fault but he got lucky with all the good things.

Fact is, Lennon did the job in front of him at Celtic and he did it well, he won his titles and he punched above his weight in Europe and there really isn't very much more can be said about it. You certainly cannot claim his record there as a bad thing, especially not when we are talking about going for the job at the likes of Bolton!

No agenda at all. My point is simply that beyond that Barcelona result, Lennon did nothing that any average manager wouldn't have done.

TheCitizen wrote: »

So why did you bring it up at all then.

A managers transfer record plays a huge part in how he's judged. Obviously it has to be mentioned in any discussion about his performance

TheCitizen

LiamoSail wrote: »

No agenda at all. My point is simply that beyond that Barcelona result, Lennon did nothing that any average manager wouldn't have done.

He took over from Tony Mowbray. Mowbray came from West Brom with a reasonable record in management with them and with Hibernian before that. He was a disaster.

The guy who's there now so far hasn't been great, though he might sort it out and maybe this "project" that he's supposed to bring will work out - who knows. Right now Celtic are 6th in a one horse league.

I don't take for granted what Lennon did at Celtic. There's plenty of examples of managers that took the Celtic job and left with their careers in tatters.

LiamoSail wrote: »

A managers transfer record plays a huge part in how he's judged. Obviously it has to be mentioned in any discussion about his performance

You're saying he didn't have any say over signings, it was John Park that made the signings, yet you're still saying he should be judged on the signings? You're not making much sense.

LiamoSail

TheCitizen wrote: »

He took over from Tony Mowbray. Mowbray came from West Brom with a reasonable record in management with them and with Hibernian before that. He was a disaster.

The guy who's there now so far hasn't been great, though he might sort it out and maybe this "project" that he's supposed to bring will work out - who knows. Right now Celtic are 6th in a one horse league.

I don't take for granted what Lennon did at Celtic. There's plenty of examples of managers that took the Celtic job and left with their careers in tatters.

Agree with you here, I'm probably guilty of that to an extent. Mowbray was a disaster, and to be fair, given the money available both O'Neill and WGS had entirely different jobs to Lennon

TheCitizen wrote: »

You're saying he didn't have any say over signings, it was John Park that made the signings, yet you're still saying he should be judged on the signings? You're not making much sense.

I'm saying he can't be judged on the signings. I mentioned it only because some credit him with the Wnayama's but criticise him for the Banguara's

CSF

bucketybuck wrote: »

Your post just sounds like you have an agenda to be honest, it reads as if you made your mind up and then twisted the narrative to suit that opinion. As if all the bad things were Lennons fault but he got lucky with all the good things.

Fact is, Lennon did the job in front of him at Celtic and he did it well, he won his titles and he punched above his weight in Europe and there really isn't very much more can be said about it. You certainly cannot claim his record there as a bad thing, especially not when we are talking about going for the job at the likes of Bolton!

Inclined to agree, with the narrative twisting thing. Alot of the posting stinks of strenuously searching for reasons for Lennon not being a great manager rather than identifying obvious ones.

Not a big fan of Lennon the man myself. Have always found him abrasive, and overly temperamental over the course of the 90 minutes and the immediate aftermath (he has come across a bit more likeable in his media work), with too much of a liking for blaming the referee, but as a manager his record so far holds up fairly well, and now he has a chance to test himself somewhere a bit more competitive.

Francie Barrett

You have to laugh. Only on boards.ie could you have someone call into question a manager who has gotten a club like Celtic to the last 16 of the Champions League of being incapable of managing a broke club that's bottom on the Championship.

Do you think Bolton would be better off holding out for Mourinho or Guardiola perhaps?

Jelle1880

Francie Barrett wrote: »

You have to laugh. Only on boards.ie could you have someone call into question a manager who has gotten a club like Celtic to the last 16 of the Champions League of being incapable of managing a broke club that's bottom on the Championship.

Do you think Bolton would be better off holding out for Mourinho or Guardiola perhaps?

He had 1 great season in the CL, his two other ones would do well to be forgotten (although the mess he had to clean up from Mowbray probably didn't help him in his first season).

He was able to outspend pretty much everyone in Scotland, he will face a much harder task at Bolton.

So yes, I think it's perfectly normal that people question whether he is up to the task.
Up to him to prove them wrong (or right).

That_Guy

Interesting move considering the financial mess Bolton are in. Surprised he didn't wait for a more lucrative job elsewhere though.

I'm sure he'll give that team a much needed boost. He comes across a very likable guy and would like him to do well but might be a tough slog in the long run if he can't bring many new faces in.

Will certainly keep an eye on proceedings there for sure.

Francie Barrett

Jelle1880 wrote: »

He had 1 great season in the CL, his two other ones would do well to be forgotten (although the mess he had to clean up from Mowbray probably didn't help him in his first season).

He was able to outspend pretty much everyone in Scotland, he will face a much harder task at Bolton.

So yes, I think it's perfectly normal that people question whether he is up to the task.
Up to him to prove them wrong (or right).

Right, so we've established that he's not good enough for the Champioship. What level do you think he's at then? League 2, Vauxhall conference - would you let him manage your kids under 12 team?

A Dub in Glasgo

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Right, so we've established that he's not good enough for the Champioship. What level do you think he's at then? League 2, Vauxhall conference - would you let him manage your kids under 12 team?

Maybe he would have been better managing the new club that started the bottom tier of Scottish football a couple of years ago. He could have shown his worth in the Harry Ramsdens fish & chip cup

Dempsey

Managing Celtic is a stick used to criticize a manager regardless of how he does. Success is disregarded and attributed to other factors and failures focused upon and he takes most of the responsibility.

Lennon's tenure at Celtic was a success and he went from the brink of being sacked to achieving some very notable successes despite being woefully under resourced compared to the other clubs in the competition most people on here give him any sort of kudos for. We'll ignore all the records his team broke domestically, they dont matter... Focus on the lack of domination of domestic cups because that is the bread and butter of being a Celtic manager....

Lennon could have brought more kids through from the academy, that would be my biggest criticism of him but this can be leveled at alot of Celtic managers. He did manage to take some decent players and make them much better, regardless of who people want to give credit to for signing them. You can attribute some of the player development to coaches but two of his biggest decisions were giving Scott Brown the captains armband and persisting with Samaras. Both got plenty criticism but they both turned a corner as a result and turned out to key to his success as manager. Not many managers turn out to be real success in their first job, even fewer do it at a big club with high expectations whilst dealing with alot of crap off it. His resilience & passion is to be commended for enduring it.

Will he be a success at Bolton? Hard to know as they are in a right mess but Lennon will start by putting fire in their belly and alot of work on the training ground. If the players are good enough they'll start producing better results but he has a distinctly average squad of players for championship level. I imagine getting a midtable finish would be considered a success all things considered.

Jelle1880

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Right, so we've established that he's not good enough for the Champioship. What level do you think he's at then? League 2, Vauxhall conference - would you let him manage your kids under 12 team?

That's not what I said is it ?

Up to him to prove them wrong (or right).

Questioning someone's ability to do the job is not the same as saying they're 100% not up to the task.

I am pie

This is probably a good job for him, if he takes Bolton anywhere his reputation is cemented and he'll be considered for bigger jobs, if he fails he can probably point to lack of investment and failing finances as they are not in good shape.

Good challenge for him, hope he does well. Not a fan of Scottish football so I didnt watch much of his Celtic teams. Hope he tries to play football with Bolton.

TheCitizen

Bolton won on his first game in charge. He got sent off as well - that doesn't matter. They'll start winning now, should be decent price with the bookies for backing them.

Dempsey

Leaving his technical area too many times. The fact that the referee didnt make it clear at the time of the card shows how much of a joke that decision was.

Jelle1880

TheCitizen wrote: »

Bolton won on his first game in charge. He got sent off as well - that doesn't matter. They'll start winning now, should be decent price with the bookies for backing them.

To be fair, it was Birmingham...

They've won 1 home game in their last 23 or so.

Still a lot to do if they wanna stay up.

DenMan

Possible new Thai owners for Bolton!


http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/29878720

Francie Barrett

3-0 up against Wigan, playing some really excellent one touch football and totally dominating the game. 4 wins from 6 for Lennon since he started (league winning form) and Bolton now safely out of the relegation zone.

Dempsey

He's having a decent honeymoon period but there will be big management challenges for him at Bolton before this season is out. In saying that, I'm not surprised that his man management skills have given the players a lift and their self belief back. A leader in every sense of the word.

TheCitizen

Good win for Lenny's Bolton last night away from home to Millwall. He has improved their home form dramatically since taking over, I think it was away from home that they were still struggling. Still early days but they look to be in good nick to steer well clear of relegation and can start to look upwards in the table perhaps.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/30443728

keeponhurling

Is Lennon out of debt now, after his settlement with Bank of Ireland, or is he still being pursued for the millions he defaulted on ?

Hope for his sake he's secure again, so doesn't gave to necessarily go where the most money is

LiamoSail

1 win in 20 odd and bottom of the league. Probably an impossible job given the state the club is in, but difficult to argue that after a year in the job, he has been anything but a failure

Dempsey

LiamoSail wrote: »

1 win in 20 odd and bottom of the league. Probably an impossible job given the state the club is in, but difficult to argue that after a year in the job, he has been anything but a failure

The club fails to pay players and you take the opportunity to come out with that drivel? Didnt see you anything last season after he took charge. Surprise surprise, no?

A Dub in Glasgo

LiamoSail wrote: »

1 win in 20 odd and bottom of the league. Probably an impossible job given the state the club is in, but difficult to argue that after a year in the job, he has been anything but a failure

How can you use the phrase 'impossible job' and then 'difficult to argue he is anything but a failure'. If it is an impossible job, how can anyone succeed?

LiamoSail

Dempsey wrote: »

The club fails to pay players and you take the opportunity to come out with that drivel? Didnt see you anything last season after he took charge. Surprise surprise, no?

You're trying to bring the discussion to a personal level. I've no interest in your feeling etc, I'm discussing his performance

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

How can you use the phrase 'impossible job' and then 'difficult to argue he is anything but a failure'. If it is an impossible job, how can anyone succeed?

Badly phrased perhaps. I won't pretend to be familiar with Bolton's situation, my point was that in what is, no doubt an extremely difficult job, things aren't working out for him at all.

I liked Lennon as a player and respect him as a person. He comes across well on the TV and has obviously had a huge amount to overcome on a personal level. As a manager I don't rate him though. I think much of his style is derived from Martin O'Neill's methods which don't seem to have progressed with the times

TheCitizen

LiamoSail wrote: »

Badly phrased perhaps. I won't pretend to be familiar with Bolton's situation, my point was that in what is, no doubt an extremely difficult job, things aren't working out for him at all.

I liked Lennon as a player and respect him as a person. He comes across well on the TV and has obviously had a huge amount to overcome on a personal level. As a manager I don't rate him though. I think much of his style is derived from Martin O'Neill's methods which don't seem to have progressed with the times

:pac: some people have crazy delusions about the game of football.

Making the most out of the players at your disposal is the key requirement of any manager, style of play comes after that and depends on available players qualities. MON has shown he can still do that. Lennon showed he can do it with Celtic in Europe. He also got a reaction from Bolton last year to keep them in that division. It won't raise his stock as a manager what's happening at Bolton but there are massive mitigating circumstances.

Fr Tod Umptious

I don't think he can really be judged on his tenure at Bolton.
Too many external factors at work.