Galway Harbour Company has banned Motorhome Parking

niloc1951

Regarding the discussion about WAW, which should probably be cut and pasted to existing thread about The Wild Atlantic Way by the moderator to separate it from this thread which is about parking in Galway City.

Lets turn the discussion around 180°.

Creating an advertisement is a costly exercise and nothing is left to chance, every expensive second and frame is well thought out to give the message maximum impact to the target audience.

The WAW advert depiction of horse riding on a beach, Irish traditional music being played, ancient monuments, idyllic fishing harbours and sea food, lakes, great houses, old castles and stunning cliffs are all in there to convey a particular message as to what experiences the WAW holds for those who would travel it.

The vehicle chosen to convey how the route may be traveled is also there for a particular reason, so why choose a motor caravan and what message does that choice convey.
Incidentally an English language edition of the advert the motor caravan appears twice.

BTW the vehicle is question has a Bristol (UK) area registration WU12 AHZ.

Odyssey 2005

Niloc is quite correct. I worked on a Bord Failte commercial a number of years ago and no expense is spared with nothing left to chance.

*Kol*

My favourite part is the good weather in the advert. That's the biggest deception of the lot!!

Morgan The Moon

AutostratusEB wrote: »

It would appear that the sign that started this entire thread off has been removed. Now there just appears to be smaller signs which say "privately operated car parking". Also some of the quayside 16A supplies have been covered up - this could be just a maintenance thing though.
Go figure.

The interesting fact regarding the 16 Amp Sockets. They are not "Marine" type.

Often solely designated marine sockets for leisure craft hook up are of a different pin configuration. My interpretation of that is the original perception of the installation considered Motorhome / camper usage. If the original configuration was not for us too use they could have installed E.U. compliant "marine" sockets.


Morg

niloc1951

On this mornings Keith Finnigan Show Eamon Bradshaw CEO of the Galway Harbour Company confirmed that their difficulties with the City Council have been overcome and motorhomes are again welcome to park overnight in their car parking area :D

Click HERE to listen to the interview, the piece is 01:59:20 into the program.

AutostratusEB

Good news, well done all on following up and chasing the necessary authorities regarding this and thanks for posting.

moodrater

niloc1951 wrote: »

On this mornings Keith Finnigan Show Eamon Bradshaw CEO of the Galway Harbour Company confirmed that their difficulties with the City Council have been overcome and motorhomes are again welcome to park overnight in their car parking area :D

Click HERE to listen to the interview, the piece is 01:59:20 into the program.

Super news onward and upward

Benbecul97

niloc1951 wrote: »

On this mornings Keith Finnigan Show Eamon Bradshaw CEO of the Galway Harbour Company confirmed that their difficulties with the City Council have been overcome and motorhomes are again welcome to park overnight in their car parking area :D

Click HERE to listen to the interview, the piece is 01:59:20 into the program.

Is overnight campervan parking on the same side of the docks as before on Dock St.?
He also mentioned that no facilities are available for campervans this time.

Morgan The Moon

Morgan The Moon wrote: »

The interesting fact regarding the 16 Amp Sockets. They are not "Marine" type.

Well they're just 16A connections what marine use innit.
Much like 13A domestic connections are what houses use.

Nuffink special about them just standard outdoor connections.
Twice the price in a chandlers than an electrical wholesalers is all.

niloc1951

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

Well they're just 16A connections what marine use innit.
Much like 13A domestic connections are what houses use.

Nuffink special about them just standard outdoor connections.
Twice the price in a chandlers than an electrical wholesalers is all.

This is the type commonly found in campsites, Aires which have an electricity supply, marinas and other applications which require the IP44 splash-proof standard of weather protection.

Yup them's the ones bog standard outdoor sockets €3.50 each.
€2.50 for the plugs.

Splash-proof when disconnected.

I've seen them completely submerged and happy out while plugged in (the in-line ones).

Morgan The Moon

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

Well they're just 16A connections what marine use innit.
Much like 13A domestic connections are what houses use.

Nuffink special about them just standard outdoor connections.
Twice the price in a chandlers than an electrical wholesalers is all.

If you read the thread you will possibly realise your extracted line from the post is missing the point !

The harbour excepts international visiting vessels, some are state side registered. The requirements for power are different as you probably know.

If the sockets are solely for Marine use and conform to international standards they would not except the plugs that you are suggesting would be suitable.

Have a good luck at the configuration of plugs and sockets that meet the requirements of ABYC AND NMMA standards and are also C.E. Certified. Try www.constitutionmarina.com for some basic requirements of conformity.

Connecting a vessel to shore power is a minefield of dangers and difficulties. Charles Marine Isolation transformers will electrically isolate the AC shore power from the boat's AC power system. The boat's electrical system and the grounding conductor are not actually connected to the shore-side power. There is no direct electrical connection between earth-grounded shore AC power and the onboard electrical system. The shore ground is connected to a shield that is wound between the primary (shore) and the secondary (boat) transformer winding. The connection of this grounding wire only to the shield of the transformer isolates the boat's AC electrical system from shore. Also allows a US wired vessel to connect to single phase 230 volt European outlets.
This multi-voltage model can be set to convert AC voltage from 110 volt to 220 volt and allows a European boat to safely connect to US style shorepower outlets. Removes the need for the dangerous and illegal method often used, where neutral and live on a European boat are connected across the two live poles of a US 110/220 volt 50 amp socket.


Increases safety.
Greatly reduces shock hazard especially for swimmers.
Eliminates reverse polarity faults.
Isolates boat from corrosion producing stray currents.
Isolation plus 110 v to 220 v conversion or isolation plus 220 v to 110 v conversion.

If the Harbour Company instigated the installation of the sockets in Galway solely for marine vessels they would have chosen sockets that would be meet the required standards, these would have a different configuration than the socket you refer to.

It is therefore reasonable to consider that the sockets that have been installed have always been considered for the use of motorhomes and campers.

So back to the OP. !! So why were motorhomes and campers banned from parking?

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

Yup them's the ones bog standard outdoor sockets €3.50 each.
€2.50 for the plugs.

Splash-proof when disconnected.


I've seen them completely submerged and happy out while plugged in (the in-line ones).

Have a look at the Marinco shore power connectors they are widely used throughout the world. The 220V16A socket has an earth pin that is bent towards the middle of the connector. They will not fit the plugs you refer to !!

niloc1951

Morgan The Moon wrote: »

.........................................So back to the OP. !! So why were motorhomes and campers banned from parking.......................

Two reasons were cited by Galway planning officials for requiring The Galway Harbour Company to ban motorhomes from using the area in question.

1) There existed no planning permission for the supply of services to motorhomes.
2) there existed no planning permission for the parking of motorhomes.

Reason one is unfortunately with foundation, which is why the service bollards have been decommissioned (covered over)

Reason two is without foundation, which is why the parking of motorhomes is again available.

Reason two foundered because the area had planning permission as a car park [sic], the permission contained no conditions relative to which category of vehicle may or may not use the facility. Therefore, there are no planning permission related grounds on which to forbid motorhomes or any other particular category of vehicle from parking there.

Following on from the above event it would seem plausible that any other enterprise with private parking is at liberty to allow motorhomes to park on their premises, subject to there being no condition attached to the original planning permission for the car-park forbidding such activity.

Morgan The Moon

Morgan The Moon wrote: »

If the original configuration was not for us too use they could have installed E.U. compliant "marine" sockets.

Indeed someone is missing the point. It's not a marine socket, it's not a motorhome socket either.

It's an outdoor splash-proof socket on a 16A supply.

If I had one on the side of the driveway for my electric power-hose and I found a camper plugged into it under the jurisdiction that it fit the other end of the cable they had in their boot then I'd be having words with them.

niloc1951

Liam & Morgan, the specification of the sockets matters not a lot in relation to the main purpose of this thread.

The reason the supply of EHU to motorhomes has stopped is because the installation of the sockets/bollards would be considered a 'development' for which there is no planning permission.
The sockets were obviously intended for primary use by motorhomes, being on the kerbside and road facing and separated from the marina by railings making them inaccessible to boating folk.

FWIW, my own opinion is that EHU should not be provided at motorhome parking areas as it only encourages long stay users who use facility instead of booking into a caravan and camping park.
Throughout Europe motorhome parking areas are usually used by people touring and stopping for a day or two, three max. A 48 hour limit us usually in force and a decent battery should provide all power required during such a period.

Morgan The Moon

niloc1951 wrote: »

Liam & Morgan, the specification of the sockets matters not a lot in relation to the main purpose of this thread.

The reason the supply of EHU to motorhomes has stopped is because the installation of the sockets/bollards would be considered a 'development' for which there is no planning permission.
The sockets were obviously intended for primary use by motorhomes, being on the kerbside and road facing and separated from the marina by railings making them inaccessible to boating folk.

FWIW, my own opinion is that EHU should not be provided at motorhome parking areas as it only encourages long stay users who use facility instead of booking into a caravan and camping park.
Throughout Europe motorhome parking areas are usually used by people touring and stopping for a day or two, three max. A 48 hour limit us usually in force and a decent battery should provide all power required during such a period.

In preveous posts I enquired regarding did anyone know if E.U. grant money was in anyway used in the purchase or installation of the electric hook up configuration.
I posed the same question to the the harbour authority. It was suggested to me that the Ehu's were for "visiting" vessels. Similler to my post here regarding standards and specification, I wrote to the Harbour Authority to try to assertain why defintive "marine type installation" was not installed.

Subsequently, as you have posted it is evident that the Ehu's were installed with motorhome / campers usage envisaged. My original post re this was prior to the anoucement that the "Parking Ban" for motorhomes had been reversed. Somewhere in this is the obvious conclusion that an amount of thought and planning was taken by the Harbour Authority. As I have posted, their new development plans they will attract an anormous amount of E.U. grant monies. We have to try and convince them it is quite normal to provide full services for Motorcaravans / Campervans along with Marina fascilities.

I personaly agree with your comment regarding the need for EU's at such "Parking Fascilities" . Length of stay, can be policed and enforced. I agree completely, move along and leave the space for the next MH / CV visitor.

I hope this may clarify my reasoning with regard to the original Ehu posting by me.



Morg

Happycamping

It there any more news on a u turn from Galway county council from banning campervans from Galway dock. Please say its true because it was a great facility

Morgan The Moon

Photo says 1000 words.



I agree in retrospect if that isn't sited for MH designation I don't know what is.

Morgan The Moon wrote: »

... defintive "marine type installation" was not installed.

Morgan are you talking about 30A Smartplugs?




I can't for the life of me find a marine proprietary electrical connection.

It's probably because most Joe Public boats don't use them.
To be honest I've seen more boats on 16A and other industry standard connections than those. There's a lot more conductor in the bog standard ones than those fancy double locking ones I pictured. I've even worked on a wooden hulled schooner with a 63A standard three phase off the dockside.



Isolation transformers don't really care what plug you put them on..they're isolated.

Wooden and fiber-glass hulled ships are double insulated appliances and so earthing isn't an issue.
A lot of steel hulled barges earth bond to the hull and use anodes and galvanic isolators instead of isolation transformers, and standard EHU.

I can see why Americans wouldn't want to use our 110V because they have a mad wiring practice that bonds the earth to neutral at the appliance, which quite often kills their inverters.

Most vessels are happy with a 16A supply and convert it as they need on-board or with an adapter. Like campers go from 16A in to 13A outs.

No idea what the big ships use. Onboard diesel generators I'd expect.

Morgan The Moon

Morgan The Moon wrote: »

NMMA standards

NEMA standards?

perth.ie

So sad so see this, we have used this facility many times. In these austere times, you would imagine that any town/city in Ireland would welcome/entice tourists to their area. Very shortsighted of Galway City Council.

*Kol*

perth.ie wrote: »

So sad so see this, we have used this facility many times. In these austere times, you would imagine that any town/city in Ireland would welcome/entice tourists to their area. Very shortsighted of Galway City Council.

You need to read the entire thread. The parking spaces are open again.

bogman

Benbecul97 wrote: »

Is overnight campervan parking on the same side of the docks as before on Dock St.?
He also mentioned that no facilities are available for campervans this time.

Overnight parking for campers is 4 euro, ok but that's only until 8am in the morning or is it different at weekends?

niloc1951

The anti-motorhome lobby are back in the media again.
It's interesting to note that the “We have two very good caravan parks in Salthill" and the ‘temporary dwellings’ brigade are out again.

SEE HERE

*Kol*

niloc1951 wrote: »

The anti-motorhome lobby are back in the media again.
It's interesting to note that the “We have two very good caravan parks in Salthill" and the ‘temporary dwellings’ brigade are out again.

SEE HERE

You will see the same in France along a lot of the sea fronts. Saying that they will most likely have an aire nearby.

niloc1951

*Kol* wrote: »

You will see the same in France along a lot of the sea fronts. Saying that they will most likely have an aire nearby.

JUST LIKE THIS

Irishgoatman

niloc1951 wrote: »

The anti-motorhome lobby are back in the media again.
It's interesting to note that the “We have two very good caravan parks in Salthill" and the ‘temporary dwellings’ brigade are out again.

SEE HERE

Although you're correct with your comments niloc, I've just had a look at the bye-law for parking in Galway and I would say that the Tribune are doing a bit of stirring and are themselves keeping CV/MH owners from going to Galway.

The article and picture gives the impression that you cannot park a CV/MH anywhere in Galway at any time. NOT TRUE. The bye-law from 2009 states, in part 2 section 7 vehicles that are allowed to park, Private vehicles with seats for 8 passengers or less, and in section 15, no overnight parking of CV/MH etc.

So, provided that you pay & display there is nothing to stop us from daytime parking and possibly evening parking as there didn't appear to be a definition of what time overnight parking would start .

*Kol*

niloc1951 wrote: »

JUST LIKE THIS

Yes I was in St Jean De Monts last week and they don't allow MH's along the seafront but have a decent aire nearby.

niloc1951

Irishgoatman wrote: »

Although you're correct with your comments niloc, I've just had a look at the bye-law for parking in Galway and I would say that the Tribune are doing a bit of stirring and are themselves keeping CV/MH owners from going to Galway.

The article and picture gives the impression that you cannot park a CV/MH anywhere in Galway at any time. NOT TRUE. The bye-law from 2009 states, in part 2 section 7 vehicles that are allowed to park, Private vehicles with seats for 8 passengers or less, and in section 15, no overnight parking of CV/MH etc.

So, provided that you pay & display there is nothing to stop us from daytime parking and possibly evening parking as there didn't appear to be a definition of what time overnight parking would start .

The function of parking bye-laws is "the control and regulation of the parking of vehicles".
Such control and regulation has to be based on the requirement to effectively manage the circulation of traffic in a manner which facilitates the parking and free movement of vehicles.

Unless a case can be made that a motorhome presents some unique impact on the control and regulation of parking and the free circulation of other traffic then there are no grounds on which to apply a unique restriction on them.

It can therefore be argued that the restrictions placed on the parking of motorhomes at places and times that the parking of other vehicles is permitted cannot be sustained in a court of law.

Put simply, if no 'harm' can be proven, so sanction can be applied.
We do not live in a dictatorship where citizens are indulged or sanctioned at the whim of their dictator for no good reason.

Irishgoatman

niloc1951 wrote: »

The function of parking bye-laws is "the control and regulation of the parking of vehicles".
Such control and regulation has to be based on the requirement to effectively manage the circulation of traffic in a manner which facilitates the parking and free movement of vehicles.

Unless a case can be made that a motorhome presents some unique impact on the control and regulation of parking and the free circulation of other traffic then there are no grounds on which to apply a unique restriction on them.

It can therefore be argued that the restrictions placed on the parking of motorhomes at places and times that the parking of other vehicles is permitted cannot be sustained in a court of law.

Put simply, if no 'harm' can be proven, so sanction can be applied.
We do not live in a dictatorship where citizens are indulged or sanctioned at the whim of their dictator for no good reason.

So are you prepared to test this bye-law in a court of law?. I certainly can't afford to.

I'll settle for the fact that I can park my campervan anywhere in Galway during the day/evening as I do my car even though, like you, I believe their actions are unjust.

niloc1951

Irishgoatman wrote: »

So are you prepared to test this bye-law in a court of law?. I certainly can't afford to...................................

I would love the opportunity, in fact I am considering going to Galway and pulling the tigers tail in the certainty he has no teeth