Purchaser of La Touche Hotel

vinpaul

The new owner of the La Touche Hotel has finally been identified. (See article below) Here's hoping that at last the sorry mess that we have been looking at for so long might soon be developed as an hotel once again.

Article from Sunday Times 5 October 2014.

M&G GLOBAL, a fund manager which is part of the Prudential insurance group, has financed emerging house-builder Greg Kavanagh in the purchase of a large number of development properties in a summer swoop on sites.

M&G has backed Kavanagh andhis partner Patrick Crean in the purchase of at least a dozen sites, ranging from small infill plots in built-up areas to large tracts of development lands.The acquisition spree, conducted in July and August, includes the purchase of La Touche hotel in Greystones, Co Wicklow; lands at the former St Clare's Convent in Harold’s Cross, Dublin; a former nursing home property in Sutton,north Dublin; former CIE lands in Cabra; and a garden centre and nursery inCabinteely, also in Co Dublin, Companies Office documents reveal.

This is the same Greg Kavanagh(29 year old builder from Arklow) that was featured in yesterday’s report in SundayIndependent Business section. It was strange that there was no mention of the Greystones purchase in that article. It lists his house building firm New Generation, reportedly backed by Starwood Capital, UK financier Sir John Beck with and Irish tycoon Pat McDonagh.

Mullie

29!! Where did I go wrong?

Fiachra2

vinpaul wrote: »

The new owner of the La Touche Hotel has finally been identified. (See article below) Here's hoping that at last the sorry mess that we have been looking at for so long might soon be developed as an hotel once again.

Unfortunately the article refers to the "emerging HOUSE builder". He doesn't sound like someone who might be interested in developing a hotel.
People may recall that in the last revision of the town plan the Greystones members of WCC tried to have to protection removed from the LaTouche. On the back of a campaign by locals -which managed to get the issue onto the TV-Tom Fortune succeeded in retaining a limited protection.
There will probably be an attempt to build apartments but with a bit of luck we might keep the façade.

cocker5

Apartments or no apartments I just hope they do something soon, it a beautiful location, stunning views and currently its rotting away and is an absolute ear sore!

pixbyjohn

I presume there will be lots of objections to whatever is eventually planned for the site/building therefore leaving us with this awful eyesore for years to come.

Taltos

pixbyjohn wrote: »

I presume there will be lots of objections to whatever is eventually planned for the site/building therefore leaving us with this awful eyesore for years to come.

It all depends pixbyjohn.

Personally I think apartments with shopping on the ground floor with a removal of the nightclub extension could only but add to the area. That building if restored could really be a thing of beauty again.

Removing the nightclub would release up more parking spaces for residents / shoppers. I am thinking along the lines of Powerscourt, some niche stores, and yes more cafe's.

I'm hopeful but until we see the plans this is all just guesswork. (Hope as well).

2011

Taltos wrote: »

Personally I think apartments with shopping on the ground floor with a removal of the nightclub extension could only but add to the area. That building if restored could really be a thing of beauty again.

Removing the nightclub would release up more parking spaces for residents / shoppers. I am thinking along the lines of Powerscourt, some niche stores,

Agree

and yes more cafe's.

:eek:

Why more cafe's ???
Of all the things that Greystones could do with it is not cafes!
We have a cafe every 5 meters on the main street.
Adding more will not result in more choice as it will just mean that some will go out of business.
The village has reached cafe saturation point.

Taltos

Tongue in cheek - couldn't resist - sorry.
Although imagine sitting by the windows on a stormy day watching the waves crash over the wall at the cove. See it's all your fault now... Oh crap that does sound good at least to me - but you are spot on about saturation - think we are past it already...

Fiachra2

pixbyjohn wrote: »

I presume there will be lots of objections to whatever is eventually planned for the site/building therefore leaving us with this awful eyesore for years to come.

Its an odd thing but if you seek planning permission for something that people want and like-as opposed to something that makes a quick buck for the developer-you wont get that many objections. This novel concept has been tried in a few locations (not Greystones) and, strange though it may seem, it worked!

Oldlegs

Any suggestions for what sort of development might work for the location ?
Would their be enough footfall to create a small retail development facing the sea ? Could be a fantastic location with great views. Would it even work ? This would also entail a cafe/coffee shop/bar so we would have yet another one of all of the above to add to the mix.

Is this just likely to be conversion into Apartments ?

Thoughts, suggestions ...

The Real B-man

2011 wrote: »

Agree




:eek:

Why more cafe's ???
Of all the things that Greystones could do with it is not cafes!
We have a cafe every 5 meters on the main street.
Adding more will not result in more choice as it will just mean that some will go out of business.
The village has reached cafe saturation point.

It’s a Town not a village, and i agree even a decent greasyspoon that doesn't charge €12 for a fry it’s lost the run of itself in a lot ofthings the Harbour being a prime example, so hopefully a sensible development will materialise

legrand

When I win the €120,000,000 Euromillions tonight I might gazump the developer and (dreams..) return the site to its original Victorian/Edwardian state complete with gardens.

2011

The Real B-man wrote: »

It’s a Town not a village

It will always be a village to me

Charlie-Bravo

How about having a four screen cinema in the front and a nice restaurant/cafe with cracking views better than barracuda at the rear?

On the other hand, the town desperately needs a hotel and any purchaser would be a fool to overlook this lacking in the town.

Cheeky Chops

A prison.

Frankly my dear

How long ago did the place close? I used to deliver sound equipment to the night club and the upstairs function room every week a good 15/16 years ago. On a visit back to Ireland back in 2010 I think it was, I drove past the place and saw it all boarded up. A shame really.

Alun

Presumably the hotel wasn't a going concern which is why it closed, so why would a new hotel on the same premises be any different?

Zoo4m8

Wasn't quite as simple as that...

Alun

Zoo4m8 wrote: »

Wasn't quite as simple as that...

Care to elucidate?

Alan_P

Alun wrote: »

Care to elucidate?

It's entirely possible it was a going concern, but some one thought they could make more money out of the site by turning it into apartments. Bray, with a population of around 30,000, supports the Royal, Martello,Esplanade and Wilton Hotels :- why couldn't Greystones, with a population of 17,000. support one ?

One obvious argument against turning it into apartments is that NAMA proposes to release 10,000 apartments onto the market over the next few years. The hypothetical La Touche apartments are going to be competing in a very crowded market space. (As are the ones at the marina, but that's a different argument).

If I recall correctly It closed around 2004.
It's web site is still active, believe it or not.

http://homepage.eircom.net/~latouche/facilities.htm

The joy of free web hosting.

loyatemu

it changed hands a few times before the final owners decided to redevelop it. I doubt the hotel part of the business was particularly profitable, the nightclub seemed to do OK and the bar did decent business despite serving the worst beer in town.

The problem isn't whether it was profitable 10 years ago, its whether it would be profitable enough now to justify the massive cost of renovating the building. There may be a need for a hotel in Greystones, but that's not sufficient for someone to build a new hotel (which is effectively what is required at the La Touche site).

Charlie-Bravo

Yep, IIRC it closed in 2004. My last drink in Bennigans at the La Touche was on the August Bank holiday weekend 2004 where there was a gig-rig trailer in the car park and a Queen tribute band played. That night was hilarious, especially 'Freddie's' dress-up for I want to break free! It is possibly the most memorable of nights while being a fresh blow-in to Greystones.

HappyDaze007

2 things missing from the stones is...

Eco hotel and a night club...

They'd make a mint..!

homer911

The Wilton and the Glenview are not a million miles away and I believe accommodation is available in Charlesland Golf Club. Then there are various B&B's and the YWCA..

Aronaay

It closed not because of lack of businesses but due to structural problems with the extension. It is supposedly slowly sliding towards to sea and the cost was too great to prevent it. If it where to open again the extension would have to be torn down

Taltos

HappyDaze007 wrote: »

2 things missing from the stones is...

Eco hotel and a night club...

They'd make a mint..!

While I agree with the idea of a hotel, a nightclub?
As someone who grew up on one of the mainroads where the revellers would pass by I definitely did not enjoy being woken up by hollering and shouting every weekend. Not to mention the empty beer bottles thrown in our garden nor for some reason my dad's car either being vandalised or stolen to be found later in Bray.

For some reason once the nightclubs closed ALL of this disappeared...

Zoo4m8

Alun wrote: »

Care to elucidate?

Em, as I know two of the owners before the last one, suffice to say that the extension became a financial millstone which made things 'difficult' for the family responsible and was arguably the thin end of the wedge for the hotel.
The next owners ( there was more than one) were 'money men' and it's probably fair to say had little interest in developing the business but were waiting on the opportunity to flip it, this being at the height of the 'boom' remember, and the last owner provided that opportunity ....

Fiachra2

The important thing for the community is to realise that a speculative developer with (literally) piles of cash has bought a prime site for probably the square root of nothing. These people will find a lucrative use for the site. What the people of Greystones need to do is ensure that the use is restricted to that which adds to the town, makes use of its scenic location and does not detract from the character of the area. Irrespective of what restrictions are put in place, these guys will make money from it be it hotel, shops etc. They always do.
Our problem will not be the developer but the council planners and many of our public representatives who will enthusiastically support whatever the developer proposes irrespective of whether it meets the need of the community or not.
The important fact is that we don't need to loose the appearance of the building nor tolerate some ridiculously high density and ugly development simply because someone with a vested commercial interest says this is how it must be.

Cerco

Fiachra2 wrote: »

The important thing for the community is to realise that a speculative developer with (literally) piles of cash has bought a prime site for probably the square root of nothing. These people will find a lucrative use for the site. What the people of Greystones need to do is ensure that the use is restricted to that which adds to the town, makes use of its scenic location and does not detract from the character of the area. Irrespective of what restrictions are put in place, these guys will make money from it be it hotel, shops etc. They always do.
Our problem will not be the developer but the council planners and many of our public representatives who will enthusiastically support whatever the developer proposes irrespective of whether it meets the need of the community or not.
The important fact is that we don't need to loose the appearance of the building nor tolerate some ridiculously high density and ugly development simply because someone with a vested commercial interest says this is how it must be.

Greystones Harbour déjà vu. I suppose it would be delusional to assume any lessons learned by the Council. Although in retrospect maybe the lesson is "anything goes" once the big investors get involved.

red_bairn

I reckon they should have a cafe/bar upstairs on a second/third floor overlooking the seaview. I think the Powerscourt shopping centre is a cool idea as well. I reckon there are a few business men and women around Ireland looking for space in Greystones. Since I work in the auld Ecommerce work, I know how hard it can be for businesses to be set up in a store. I saw lots of computer shops closing up in Seoul, Korea and they went purely online only.

Wicklow Will

The Real B-man wrote: »

It’s a Town not a village, and i agree even a decent greasyspoon that doesn't charge €12 for a fry it’s lost the run of itself in a lot ofthings the Harbour being a prime example, so hopefully a sensible development will materialise

Your main point here is unclear. One of the interpretations one could put on it is that you'd like to see our sea front turned into another Bray with cheap greasy spoons and amusement arcades and all the problems that ensue!

Cheeky Chops

Wicklow Will wrote: »

Your main point here is unclear. One of the interpretations one could put on it is that you'd like to see our sea front turned into another Bray with cheap greasy spoons and amusement arcades and all the problems that ensue!

Bray seafront is ace. Great buzz to it these days with some great places to eat and not at all snobby. I love it there!

Cheeky Chops

Looking at the area I think a world class spa overlooking the sea would be successful. Which I would never ever set foot in as skint

Or an ice rink overlooking the sea. That would bring a load of visitors to boost the local economy.

The Real B-man

Wicklow Will wrote: »

Your main point here is unclear. One of the interpretations one could put on it is that you'd like to see our sea front turned into another Bray with cheap greasy spoons and amusement arcades and all the problems that ensue!

IMO, I mean somewhere Sensible Coffee shops / Restaurants in Greystones have an air of Boutique / associated prices about them not necessarily a bad thing but would like to see more "Normal" establishments, my point being i wouldn’t want Greystones to lose the run of itself with its ambitious Harbour development being a prime example.


My 2cents.

Mahogany

Agreed.

Lack of greasy spoons and good locals in the town.

Annasopra

The Real B-man wrote: »

IMO, I mean somewhere Sensible Coffee shops / Restaurants in Greystones have an air of Boutique / associated prices about them not necessarily a bad thing but would like to see more "Normal" establishments, my point being i wouldn’t want Greystones to lose the run of itself with its ambitious Harbour development being a prime example.


My 2cents.

To be honest. With the cost of renovating the place I doubt that will happen.

beepbeeprichie

Greystones never was a greasy spoon kind of town so I don't see it becoming one these days.it's historically always been a bit affluent and I guess that's why most people enjoy living there. Also the old hotel didn't do well because it was really crap, a small decent boutique style hotel would be booked out in that location

recedite

What is the current preservation order on the La Touche, is it the facade, or were all the restrictions lifted entirely, recently?
If no restrictions, the developer and his backers will want to go as high as possible, to make the most money. There is a particular formula they like; it consists of shops and retail units at ground level, with one or two big name anchor tenants to attract in the footfall, and then apartments from the first floor up. Parking below ground level. Like Dunnes and the Cubes apartments in Sandyford/Stillorgan Ind. Estate
Something like an ice rink with a view out over the cove would be nice, but it won't compete financially with the more standard formula. And as we know, money talks when it comes to WCC.

legrand

I noticed some folks setting out stakes in the garden of the adjacent bungalow - assuming in readiness for grounds clear out. Not seeing any planning permission signs yet however.

Jimjay

legrand wrote: »

I noticed some folks setting out stakes in the garden of the adjacent bungalow - assuming in readiness for grounds clear out. Not seeing any planning permission signs yet however.

Is there any existing planning permission for hotel appartments and shops or will that have expired?

Charlie-Bravo

Not that I am aware of - last relevant application was in 2004. Don't see any extension of duration permission submitted on Wicklow.ie

Pipasawrus

The Surveyors where walking around the hotel last week, same attitude as the "Harbour people." We're obviously country bumkins in Greystones and couldn't possibly understand such concepts as Surveying. Extremely rude men, when I politely asked if they had any idea of the plan, they just laughed!! and said there was no preservation order in force anymore when I mentioned it. Manners cost nothing. :-(

The Real B-man

http://www.independent.ie/regionals/braypeople/news/clarification-sought-on-la-touche-status-27650776.html

From 2012, yes it would seem its abit of a Grey area on if its actually protected, i can see it being demolished tbh.

Blingy

Pipasawrus wrote: »

The Surveyors where walking around the hotel last week, same attitude as the "Harbour people." We're obviously country bumkins in Greystones and couldn't possibly understand such concepts as Surveying. Extremely rude men, when I politely asked if they had any idea of the plan, they just laughed!! and said there was no preservation order in force anymore when I mentioned it. Manners cost nothing. :-(

Developers with dollar signs in their sights rarely have manners (IMO)!!

Jimjay

If there is no protection status on the building can the developer knock it down without planning permission? I would presume it would be in their interest to knock it down before they apply for permission for a new development to prevent any future plans having objections to include existing architecture.

recedite

They would still need permission to knock a building, but as the protection has been withdrawn, that permission would be a foregone conclusion, regardless of any local objections.

Fiachra2

In the last town plan, the council planners attempted to have all protection removed (presumably to facilitate demolition). This was supported by the elected representatives of Greystones except Tom Fortune.

Not wishing to admit that they would like to demolish the hotel the planners stated that they were naming the area around it as an area of architectural conservation. This they claimed would afford the hotel "greater protection" although they were unable to explain how this worked.

Outvoted by his fellow councillors Tom however succeeded in having the hotel specifically named in the town plan as contributing to the character of the area. Its not clear what level of protection this affords the hotel. It is very likely that WCC will give permission for its demolition but An Bord Pleanala might rule otherwise on the basis that it is clearly the intention on the town plan to preserve the building. (Albeit that it is the intention of the planners to demolish it)

tradtshirt

beepbeeprichie wrote: »

Greystones never was a greasy spoon kind of town so I don't see it becoming one these days.it's historically always been a bit affluent and I guess that's why most people enjoy living there. Also the old hotel didn't do well because it was really crap, a small decent boutique style hotel would be booked out in that location

Yeah affluent baby.

Allow a greasy spoon set up shop, next thing you know you have a Lidl, sprawling housing estates and people voting Sinn Fein.

Annasopra

tradtshirt wrote: »

Yeah affluent baby.

Allow a greasy spoon set up shop, next thing you know you have a Lidl, sprawling housing estates and people voting Sinn Fein.

Check, Check, Check

vinpaul

I noticed a surveyor/planner at work today at La Touche Hotel site. Hope developments are positive and that work will proceed with all haste.

Annasopra

Theres a feature in the Phoenix on the developer guy