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Purchaser of La Touche Hotel

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13

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    #62
    red_bairn
    Registered Users Posts: 2,342 ✭✭✭red_bairn


    Jimjay wrote: »
    Is there actually a valid planning application in for this site? All the papers and local td's said there was but i cant find one on the wicklow planning search. One was submitted and then later rejected as an incomplete application on the same day. Anyone know the status of this?

    I think there is one on the gate to the house beside the hotel. There was one at the back of the hotel but haven't checked online.


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    #63
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Jimjay wrote: »
    Is there actually a valid planning application in for this site? All the papers and local td's said there was but i cant find one on the wicklow planning search. One was submitted and then later rejected as an incomplete application on the same day. Anyone know the status of this?

    I heard it was invalid

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #64
    Jimjay
    Registered Users Posts: 800 ✭✭✭Jimjay


    Updated plans released -
    http://www.greystonesguide.ie/the-la-touche-hotel-redesign-gets-updated/

    personally think it looks nice.


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    #65
    loyatemu
    Registered Users Posts: 14,889 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    hard to tell from the tiny pictures. Disappointed there's no bar or restaurant proposed; despite the plethora of coffee shops etc in Greystones, there's still nowhere you can drink a coffee or a pint and look out over the sea. Is that too much to hope for in a seaside town?


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    #66
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    loyatemu wrote: »
    .. there's still nowhere you can drink a coffee or a pint and look out over the sea. Is that too much to hope for in a seaside town?
    +1. If you go into the upstairs reading room of the library, the view out over the sea is incredible. But like the St. Davids school building, mostly its students in there with their heads firmly in the books.
    It gives an inkling of what could be, and should be, but isn't.


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    #67
    loyatemu
    Registered Users Posts: 14,889 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    recedite wrote: »
    +1. If you go into the upstairs reading room of the library, the view out over the sea is incredible.

    It is, but take it from me - they don't like you drinking beer in there...


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    #68
    Jimjay
    Registered Users Posts: 800 ✭✭✭Jimjay


    loyatemu wrote: »
    hard to tell from the tiny pictures. Disappointed there's no bar or restaurant proposed; despite the plethora of coffee shops etc in Greystones, there's still nowhere you can drink a coffee or a pint and look out over the sea. Is that too much to hope for in a seaside town?

    There are commercial units so one may end up as a coffee shop. Im sure when i read the plans a while ago it included a boutique hotel, bar and restaurant!


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    #69
    eigrod
    Registered Users Posts: 7,599 ✭✭✭eigrod


    An east facing McDonalds with a full bar licence is clearly the obvious solution.


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    #70
    Langerland
    Registered Users Posts: 328 ✭✭Langerland


    eigrod wrote: »
    An east facing McDonalds with a full bar licence is clearly the obvious solution.

    Given that MaccyD's will be servicing the schools on the northern edge of the town, I think BK or SuperMacs would be better placed here :D


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    #71
    d31b0y
    Registered Users Posts: 2,028 ✭✭✭d31b0y


    Larger images here;
    http://derekmitchell.ie/?p=1546

    *I have no affiliation to Derek Mitchell. I just did a google search.


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    #72
    Banta
    Registered Users Posts: 262 ✭✭Banta


    I'm often skeptical of those sorts of mock ups, to be honest.

    But then I'm reminded of this, which of course restores my faith.

    VO1S2RE.png


    I'm sure the La Touche redevelopment will probably look even better than it does in those new design plans. :rolleyes:


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    #73
    Jimjay
    Registered Users Posts: 800 ✭✭✭Jimjay


    The Independent said a decision on the planning applications would be due on the 8th july. Not heard anything and the date has passed. Anyone know what the decision was?

    http://www.independent.ie/regionals/braypeople/news/decision-to-be-made-on-site-of-la-touche-31324491.html


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    #74
    pixbyjohn
    Registered Users Posts: 6,250 ✭✭✭pixbyjohn


    Jimjay wrote: »
    The Independent said a decision on the planning applications would be due on the 8th july. Not heard anything and the date has passed. Anyone know what the decision was?

    http://www.independent.ie/regionals/braypeople/news/decision-to-be-made-on-site-of-la-touche-31324491.html
    Doesn't look like there is a decision yet.
    http://193.178.30.218/wickloweplan/FileRefDetails.aspx?file_number=15114&LASiteID=0


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    #75
    Jimjay
    Registered Users Posts: 800 ✭✭✭Jimjay


    Planning permission approved with conditions.
    the first condition is that they pay the council €151,715 as contribution towards public infrastructure and a €195,000 cash security to make sure they start within 1 year or is not completed within 3 years.

    http://www.eplanning.ie/WicklowCC/AppFileRefDetails/15114/0


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    #76
    Roshaw7
    Registered Users Posts: 12 ✭Roshaw7


    Guys, digging up old threads but any updates that we know of on this? Derek Mitchell has recently called for the building to be classed as derelict. Does anyone know anything about the situation with kd la touche? Looks like they're purposely letting the building fall into disrepair...how does that sit with the planning regs and application? Would be a crying shame to lose this building after all the town has been through. R.


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    #77
    loyatemu
    Registered Users Posts: 14,889 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    Roshaw7 wrote: »
    Guys, digging up old threads but any updates that we know of on this? Derek Mitchell has recently called for the building to be classed as derelict. Does anyone know anything about the situation with kd la touche? Looks like they're purposely letting the building fall into disrepair...how does that sit with the planning regs and application? Would be a crying shame to lose this building after all the town has been through. R.

    I believe it has changed hands again, and it's no longer in the ownership of the guy who got the planning permission to turn it into townhouses. I don't imagine the building itself will fall down, most of the damage seems to be to the wooden facade. (of course, it could burn down as derelict buildings have as habit of doing).


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    #78
    Roshaw7
    Registered Users Posts: 12 ✭Roshaw7


    Any info on the new ownership?


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    #79
    loyatemu
    Registered Users Posts: 14,889 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    Roshaw7 wrote: »
    Any info on the new ownership?

    http://www.independent.ie/business/commercial-property/exclusive-developer-greg-kavanagh-hits-the-jackpot-with-150m-payday-35146905.html

    Kavanagh was the effective owner, looks like he was bought out by a London investment firm.


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    #80
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    Looks like his partner/co-director bought him out?
    Those assets - a portfolio of Dublin development sites – are to be transferred into the ownership of a new company to be formed and headed up by Kavanagh’s current co-director, the CEO of New Generation Homes, Pat Crean.
    The options seem to be the same as before; develop the various sites, or try to sell them on for a profit, or just sit on them.
    The latter option makes economic sense if site values are rising, interest rates are low, and finance is available. Which conditions would seem to be in place at the moment.


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    #81
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    recedite wrote: »
    Looks like his partner/co-director bought him out?
    The options seem to be the same as before; develop the various sites, or try to sell them on for a profit, or just sit on them.
    The latter option makes economic sense if site values are rising, interest rates are low, and finance is available. Which conditions would seem to be in place at the moment.

    If the option is sit on it then Derek Mitchell is dead right put it on the derelict sites list. That means the site owner potentially having to pay tax because he is not developing it.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #82
    loyatemu
    Registered Users Posts: 14,889 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    If the option is sit on it then Derek Mitchell is dead right put it on the derelict sites list. That means the site owner potentially having to pay tax because he is not developing it.

    if the paper value of the site is increasing on the books of whoever owns it, the tax is probably not going to make much difference to their plans (or they'll do a superficial cleanup of the site like they did before).


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    #83
    loyatemu
    Registered Users Posts: 14,889 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    Demolition due to start shortly:

    http://www.greystonesguide.ie/la-touche-hotel-finally-checks-out/


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    #84
    chinacrisis
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13 ✭chinacrisis


    I know it's been discussed ad nauseam but surely the site would be the ideal spot for a hotel? Keep the facade and build a 'boutique' hotel on the site. There can't be many towns of Greystones' size (and charm!) without a hotel? What with its location facing the sea (ideal wedding photos!) proximity to the main street etc. The trade it would get from people doing the Cliff Walk and going to to Happy Pear alone would surely bring in punters in their droves! That said, apartments would be preferable to the status quo at this stage- if done right it would be a lovely place to live.


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    #85
    loyatemu
    Registered Users Posts: 14,889 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    chinacrisis wrote: »
    I know it's been discussed ad nauseam but surely the site would be the ideal spot for a hotel? Keep the facade and build a 'boutique' hotel on the site. There can't be many towns of Greystones' size (and charm!) without a hotel? What with its location facing the sea (ideal wedding photos!) proximity to the main street etc. The trade it would get from people doing the Cliff Walk and going to to Happy Pear alone would surely bring in punters in their droves! That said, apartments would be preferable to the status quo at this stage- if done right it would be a lovely place to live.

    if they hadn't closed down the hotel when they did it might still be going - I think it was doing OK financially. Even the original plan of converting it to a smaller boutique hotel with attached apartments might have worked out.

    The problem now is that a huge amount of money would be required to restore the building or build a new hotel and the resulting business wouldn't generate enough revenue to justify the outlay. If there is so much latent demand for a hotel in Greystones how come no-one has built one yet?

    If you're a business person who owns the site, the correct business decision is to build houses/apartments - the property market is booming & Greystones is a hugely popular place to live.


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    #86
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    loyatemu wrote: »
    If you're a business person who owns the site, the correct business decision is to build houses/apartments - the property market is booming & Greystones is a hugely popular place to live.
    Quite true, but the correct planning decision would be to reserve certain prime sections of the coastline for buildings that would be more open to the public, such as hotels and restaurants.


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    #87
    loyatemu
    Registered Users Posts: 14,889 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    recedite wrote: »
    Quite true, but the correct planning decision would be to reserve certain prime sections of the coastline for buildings that would be more open to the public, such as hotels and restaurants.

    the council have taken the approach that the choice is between allowing residential development or leaving the building to rot (or be demolished and the site left vacant).

    Not saying that's the right approach but I think the die was cast when the original permission was granted to convert the hotel into hotel+apartments back in 2003 - from that point on it became a "residential" development and has changed hands on that basis since. For the council to rezone it as non-residential now might leave them open to legal action (maybe?, IANAL).


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    #88
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    loyatemu wrote: »
    permission was granted to convert the hotel into hotel+apartments back in 2003
    That was still "partly" public access though.
    Anyway dezoning is a thing, so residential zoning can be removed without any liability to the council.
    Of course, its too late for any of that now. I'm just suggesting what "could have been" as a better planning approach.


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    #89
    yesap
    Registered Users Posts: 57 ✭✭yesap


    Too late now but I also can't believe somebody didn't take a chance at a boutique style hotel, they could have named there price for rooms with the area, views, location etc. Cliff house hotel in Ardmore springs to mind, this would have been that and more...


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    #90
    jpd
    Registered Users Posts: 116 ✭✭jpd


    I suspect that if it was that easy, someone would have gone for it.


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    #91
    yesap
    Registered Users Posts: 57 ✭✭yesap


    Goes without saying it wasn't simple, but the designation change from hotel to residential was purely a timing issue due to the recession. Nobody would have touched another hotel at the time but lo and behold we are now short rooms in Ireland.

    Wicklow Co changing designation was correct decision at the time but awful in retrospect and for the town of Greystones.


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