New changes to the testing of vintage Cars/Trucks?

Means Of Escape

WDB123 wrote: »

Are we having a protest rally before they shaft us ???????

Block up all toll booths in the country with classic and vintage cars
Leave one lane free
Worked for the farmers in their tractors in Dublun city .

jca

WDB123 wrote: »

Are we having a protest rally before they shaft us ???????

A protest rally over what exactly? If these "classic" cars are as cosseted as all the owners would lead us to believe an annual nct shouldn't be a problem. All cars regardless of age are mot'd in the uk and owners just get them done without whining. If owners have nothing to hide etc, but, it's Ireland someone's always hiding something especially with the crocks that are so called "classics"

johnty56

jca wrote: »

A protest rally over what exactly? If these "classic" cars are as cosseted as all the owners would lead us to believe an annual nct shouldn't be a problem. All cars regardless of age are mot'd in the uk and owners just get them done without whining. If owners have nothing to hide etc, but, it's Ireland someone's always hiding something especially with the crocks that are so called "classics"

Thats not factually correct. You see it isn't true. In other words, its BS.

Not all cars in the UK are subject to MOT.

I have nothing to hide my car is perfect.. but why should I spend 55 euro and take a half day out of my life to go and NCT a car I might drive 200 miles in a year.. if any miles at all, just so I have the option of using it if I want to?

I treat the car with extreme care, it is nearly 50 years old. I am very careful not to damage interior trim, woodwork etc etc when I am in or around the car.
Would a barely trained, un motivated NCT inspector ( not an engineer, not a mechanic) give the same care and consideration to a valuable car?

hi5

I used to have a classic car MOT'd in the UK, you could roll up on a Saturday morning and have it done in the local garage without booking, a lot less hassle than it is here.

Cleveland Hot Pocket

Like I said in a classic car drivers group on facebook, not a hope my '68 is going anywhere near an NCT test. Rule or no rule.

No way is an untrained unsympathetic monkey going anywhere near my car.
No problem with "modern classics" being NCT tested, my '89 zx for example is currently being gradually brought to the point that it can pass an NCT.

However my 1968 chrysler wouldnt have a hope of passing any NCT that involves any emissions test. I mean, how is a car with a pre 1972 american engine (where there was little to no emissions regulations, even by 70's standards) with a carburettor going to pass an emissions test? I have to open my garage door before firing it up sure!

John Larkin

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

However my 1968 chrysler wouldnt have a hope of passing any NCT that involves any emissions test. I mean, how is a car with a pre 1972 american engine (where there was little to no emissions regulations, even by 70's standards) with a carburettor going to pass an emissions test? I have to open my garage door before firing it up sure!

Vehicles first registered prior to 1st January 1980 are exempt from emissions testing. Even if emissions testing was extended to earlier years they can only test to the standards that were legislated for in Ireland when the vehicle was first registered. I have not yet been able to find any such legislation. So there does not seem to be anything to worry about in this respect.

The RSA cannot introduce retrospective standards for vehicles testing. If somebody brings a 1899 car in for an NCT, and you can if you wish, they cannot fail the car on emissions, display of registration, headlight aiming, safety marking on glass, vehicle identification, and so on because there was no legislation in place governing these when the car was first registered. Neither can they fail that 1899 car if it lacks the following:- brake lights, indicators, glazing, instruments, wipers, rear view mirrors, safety belts, and more, unless they have been fitted to the car, in which case they have to work, and then only to the standards that they were supplied to by the manufacturer.

I have NCTd a 1967 car and a 1974 car. Both passed all of their NCTs. In putting my cars through the NCT I have had to clarify a few points with the RSA where the NCT tester's manual did not provide sufficient scope for the tester to pass the car. If the NCT is extended to cover older vehicles I'm sure that there will be a number of issues that arise as the testers strive to become familiar with older technology, but I have found the RSA to be open and receptive to the need to to adapt the tester's manual where required. As for the testers at the Deansgrange NCT where I have taken both cars I found them to be pleased to test something different and willing to listen to my advice about particular features of the cars that they might not know about. They treated the cars with great respect.

jetfiremuck

Itll put most classics off the road. I do 800 miles a year...nct now needed..book a test...may fail on smoke.....needs injection work...€500 to repair= park car not worth it....wife all pissy...I see it now. Ill get rid of the car.Nct monkey standing on brakes...reving the nuts off older cars...obsolete suspension bushings... Start of the death of vintage rallys and charity runs as I see it.

jetfiremuck

To the previous poster and nct testers treating cars with respect....please enough already. I have a disco1 that gets nct every year. Even leaving a note that it should have the tapley test done brake wise..( permanent 4x4) Ive seen the eejit with it on the rollers. Ffssssss. Then says handbrake uneven ...need to adjust hand brake... Tell clown hanbrake is on back of tranfer case...jesus dont get me started...

Cleveland Hot Pocket

John Larkin wrote: »

Vehicles first registered prior to 1st January 1980 are exempt from emissions testing. Even if emissions testing was extended to earlier years they can only test to the standards that were legislated for in Ireland when the vehicle was first registered. I have not yet been able to find any such legislation. So there does not seem to be anything to worry about in this respect.

The RSA cannot introduce retrospective standards for vehicles testing. If somebody brings a 1899 car in for an NCT, and you can if you wish, they cannot fail the car on emissions, display of registration, headlight aiming, safety marking on glass, vehicle identification, and so on because there was no legislation in place governing these when the car was first registered. Neither can they fail that 1899 car if it lacks the following:- brake lights, indicators, glazing, instruments, wipers, rear view mirrors, safety belts, and more, unless they have been fitted to the car, in which case they have to work, and then only to the standards that they were supplied to by the manufacturer.

I have NCTd a 1967 car and a 1974 car. Both passed all of their NCTs. In putting my cars through the NCT I have had to clarify a few points with the RSA where the NCT tester's manual did not provide sufficient scope for the tester to pass the car. If the NCT is extended to cover older vehicles I'm sure that there will be a number of issues that arise as the testers strive to become familiar with older technology, but I have found the RSA to be open and receptive to the need to to adapt the tester's manual where required. As for the testers at the Deansgrange NCT where I have taken both cars I found them to be pleased to test something different and willing to listen to my advice about particular features of the cars that they might not know about. They treated the cars with great respect.

The problem with the NCT as it is is - yes you can get someone that respects cars, or you can get someone who doesnt.
Luck of the draw, and that's not good enough for classics. Modern cars you can treat like a computer/white good and get away with it. Not classics though. They are past their expected/design life and we need to preserve them for future generations.

whisky_galore

What appears like the first of a series of meetings..?

http://www.irishvintagescene.ie/2-meetings-to-discuss-new-rsa-proposals/

Cleveland Hot Pocket

whisky_galore wrote: »

What appears like the first of a series of meetings..?

http://www.irishvintagescene.ie/2-meetings-to-discuss-new-rsa-proposals/

Good, I'd be interested in attending one on the east coast.

We need to make enough noise about this so they remove the stupid "pre 1960 only" exemption idea.

Cleveland Hot Pocket

This thread shows why I dislike the NCT

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=92659901&postcount=4502

whisky_galore

jetfiremuck wrote: »

Start of the death of vintage rallys and charity runs as I see it.

If it involves a hefty fee/fees for retesting, people might just start selling off cars and getting out of the game altogether, unless they bring them with a 4wd/transporter and just run them around the rally field.

Shadow 1

To Reinforce What has been posted by GRIMREAPER666 I completely agree. This is just one more instance of "jobs for the boys" and revenue for the Government. When you see that the address of the RSA is in Co. Mayo you don't have to ask who is behind this little number.
The questions that I would like to see answered are:
How many accidents have there been involving Vintage cars (social and domestic) since the introduction of the NCT?
If any, How many recorded fatalities or injuries have there been in that time?
Again, if any, How many of these have been due to mechanical failure?
When these questions are answered I am certain that it will become obvious what an utter waste of time and public money this White Elephant would be.

Shadow 1.

The Big Red Fella

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

This thread shows why I dislike the NCT

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=92659901&postcount=4502

now allowed to view?

Cleveland Hot Pocket

The Big Red Fella wrote: »

now allowed to view?

Ah sorry, it's a private-ish forum

Kenny Logins

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

Ah sorry, it's a private-ish forum

Private-ish attachment too.

Cleveland Hot Pocket

Kenny Logins wrote: »

Private-ish attachment too.

I give up...
It was a guy in an NCT test and the tester has just broken the car's bonnet clean away from its mount.

Kenny Logins

What's the forum? Out of curiosity..

Cleveland Hot Pocket

Ranting and raving, it's from the motors/motoring rant thread.
I'm more of a lurker in that forum but it's a good place to vent when needed!

kja1888

I really should know better than to read the moronic posts in this thread. Who do you think tests the vintage stuff already? All the '30s and '40s and '50s and '60s and '70s and '80s Bentleys and Rolls? I'm outta here.

w124man

^^^^^

WTF?

Kenny Logins

w124man wrote: »

^^^^^

WTF?

NCT tester?

w124man

I have just read the entire thread and there is mention of VIN numbers and cross checking in it. A fellow W124 nutcase has just purchased a beautiful W124 coupé in the UK. When he brought it to the NCT to be checked they found that the car did not have the VIN stamped into the bulkhead where it should be. The car only had the screwed on plate on the slam panel. They refused to go any further with the examination until he could provide proof that the car was legal.
After a whole week of investigation it turned out that the car had been reshelled 20 years ago, with a genuine MB shell. The shell was a spare part and has no VIN stamped on it. So the NCT people do check or should check that the car they are testing is what it says on the tin!

The coupé, by the way, has to go back to the UK and have the VIN stamped on it by the bodyshop who carried out the work.

galwaytt

I posted this on another forum, so pardon the copy & paste. Here's my 0.02...

I think a refresh is in order here, so if I may:...

The proposed changes to testing in that RSA document have nothing to do with tax, only testing for roadworthiness. In that context, any changes the RSA recommend to DoE have no impact on tax at all. That is the 'formal' limit of the scope of that RSA document.

NCT exemption is NOT 30 yrs, it is a prescribed date in time (up to 1980). So, currently, NCT-exemption doesn't apply to cars in the 30 -34 yr range anyway - they are being tested already. Within the space of a 6 years, even if they do nothing, all 40yr old cars will be required to be tested anyway. The only ones that won't are those pre 1980. Which means if that they change the law, it's effect will be cancelled out in 6 years time anyway. So why bother ? That's the way I'd put it to them.

Let's start with a 'definition' of a classic car (as we take it now). It's a car 30+yrs old. This allows us to enjoy €56 p.a. tax.

However, by dint of age, those cars (currently) 34+ yrs old have the additional benefit of being NCT-exempt. So, the kernel according to the RSA is a 6-year period until the first of those turns 40.

I don't know what's driving (sic) this need to change the law - what RSA are 'worrying' about is the increase in the age of the national fleet - which is continuing as the average age is now 10 yrs - will see a greater portion of people using older and older cars as daily drivers. Eventually it might - and this is a very slight might - lead to a situation where there is a raft of pre 1980 cars being used as DD and avoiding testing. But this is nonsense imho. First off, the pool of pre 1980's cars is at best stagnant, and likely shrinking (natural wastage, damage, economics etc). So the number of cars that will continue to be eligible to avoid the NCT is actually shrinking and will continue to do so. There is probably a gap in the number that qualify right now, but as time goes by those the RSA are 'worried' about will actually shrink anyway. And even if they are still worried about it, in 6 years time all those cars will be exempt under a 40 yr rule anyway. If they are SORD'd in the meantime it distorts the whole thing even more.........

If there is a change in the public attitude to using older or keeping vehicles longer, the natural progression is that there will be some 1980's and a larger cohort of 1990's cars on the road. This makes sense as everyone into cars knows quality peaked in the 1990's anyway >:D >:D >:D These 1990's cars could conceivably be with us for a very long time yet - and there's lots of them about. So, putting in my RSA hat, what should I do - well nothing actually, as all those cars currently get tested EVERY year as it is - which is twice that for a sub 10-yr old car anyway, so I could suggest they are actually BETTER monitored than the current sub-10yr old fleet.................. >:D

Eventually though, those 1990's cars will become 30. What happens then, in the RSA context ? - actually, nothing. Under current legislation they will never be NCT exempt, so what's the pressure to change for...............?? If you consider the length of time some legislation takes to formulate and pass, that narrow 6-yr window mentioned above will have come and gone with no need to do anything........

...and this then is where Other Factors come in..............I suspect, the change to the 30 yr rule is to allow that the Finance Act be 'synchronised' for tax purposes and that all those would-be 1984+ and all those 1990's cars have to soldier an extra 10 years to get to €56-land. This is, I stress, imho.

And just remember folks, just 'cos your paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you..........

jetfiremuck

w124man wrote: »

I have just read the entire thread and there is mention of VIN numbers and cross checking in it. A fellow W124 nutcase has just purchased a beautiful W124 coupé in the UK. When he brought it to the NCT to be checked they found that the car did not have the VIN stamped into the bulkhead where it should be. The car only had the screwed on plate on the slam panel. They refused to go any further with the examination until he could provide proof that the car was legal.
After a whole week of investigation it turned out that the car had been reshelled 20 years ago, with a genuine MB shell. The shell was a spare part and has no VIN stamped on it. So the NCT people do check or should check that the car they are testing is what it says on the tin!

The coupé, by the way, has to go back to the UK and have the VIN stamped on it by the bodyshop who carried out the work.

Jesus.....That says it all....like irish water.

airnwater

The RSA have no statistics for classic cars involved in fatal or serious accidents.
Driver error IS the major cause of accidents.
RSA are no longer receiving state funding from 2015 & are looking elsewhere.
More vehicles tested by NCT = more funds for RSA.

The average car mileage per annum in Ireland is 12,000 miles.
The average vintage/classic car mileage is less than 1/10 of this. Many enthusiasts have more than 1 car , so average mileage is even less again than above.

Classic vehicles are a tiny percentage of the national fleet.

The RSA would be better focussing elsewhere eg on driver education......

WDB123

jca wrote: »

A protest rally over what exactly? If these "classic" cars are as cosseted as all the owners would lead us to believe an annual nct shouldn't be a problem. All cars regardless of age are mot'd in the uk and owners just get them done without whining. If owners have nothing to hide etc, but, it's Ireland someone's always hiding something especially with the crocks that are so called "classics"

I am not english or give a fiddlers what they do!!! I am hiding nothing,not all cars are tested just for your information.I recently brought my car to the UK to a show and won a prize.
My objection is that in terms of road safety there is not an issue its a revenue maker,another indirect tax,I am sick of all these charges brought in by a greedy overpaid shower above in Dublin who do what they like because we are no good to challange these things

alastair

w124man wrote: »

I have just read the entire thread and there is mention of VIN numbers and cross checking in it. A fellow W124 nutcase has just purchased a beautiful W124 coupé in the UK. When he brought it to the NCT to be checked they found that the car did not have the VIN stamped into the bulkhead where it should be. The car only had the screwed on plate on the slam panel. They refused to go any further with the examination until he could provide proof that the car was legal.
After a whole week of investigation it turned out that the car had been reshelled 20 years ago, with a genuine MB shell. The shell was a spare part and has no VIN stamped on it. So the NCT people do check or should check that the car they are testing is what it says on the tin!

The coupé, by the way, has to go back to the UK and have the VIN stamped on it by the bodyshop who carried out the work.

That's for an import registration inspection though - not for a regular road worthiness inspection - where they don't compare vin plates with chassis.

alastair

airnwater wrote: »

RSA are no longer receiving state funding from 2015 & are looking elsewhere.
More vehicles tested by NCT = more funds for RSA.

How does that work then? The RSA don't get any share of NCT profits.