New changes to the testing of vintage Cars/Trucks?

The Big Red Fella

Means Of Escape wrote: »

Sarcasm

I had a friend killed in a early celica not his fault just a foreign clown on the wrong side of the road maby the rsa should be lookin at banning left hand drive cars in this country as they are dangerous ?

digger58

Oh yeah, that's a brilliant idea isn't it!!!! Then we won't be allowed on mainland Europe either. Don't give them any more barmy ideas like that or we might all regret it.

mattroche

Its not the L.H.D. cars is the problem, but the people driving them!

Silvera

mattroche wrote: »

Its not the L.H.D. cars is the problem, but the people driving them!

Exactly.

More RSA warning signs (re foreign drivers) at ports, airports etc wouldnt go astray!

Sam Russell

The problem of driving on the 'wrong' side, is not leaving the port, it is the following morning, driving out of the hotel onto an empty road and just heading down the road as you always do - oops forgot I am on the wrong side.

The only way is to put a yellow sticker on the dash to remind yourself.

The rest of the world should change over to drive on the left to solve this problem!

Cleveland Hot Pocket

Sam Russell wrote: »

The problem of driving on the 'wrong' side, is not leaving the port, it is the following morning, driving out of the hotel onto an empty road and just heading down the road as you always do - oops forgot I am on the wrong side.

The only way is to put a yellow sticker on the dash to remind yourself.

The rest of the world should change over to drive on the left to solve this problem!

Or logically, we should change to drive on the right.
Most of the driving world apart from the UK and AUS does now anyway.

corktina

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

Or logically, we should change to drive on the right.
Most of the driving world apart from the UK and AUS does now anyway.

India? 1.2 billion people.....mind you they pretty much drive wherever they can anyway

Cleveland Hot Pocket

corktina wrote: »

India? 1.2 billion people.....mind you they pretty much drive wherever they can anyway

Ok, UK and its former dominions.:p

Sam Russell

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

Ok, UK and its former dominions.:p

Japan?

Sam Russell

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

Or logically, we should change to drive on the right.
Most of the driving world apart from the UK and AUS does now anyway.

Note to self: Do not make jokes unless there is a

corktina

Sam Russell wrote: »

Japan?

caught by the bollix:D

mgbgt1978

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-_and_left-hand_traffic#Left-hand_traffic

....75 jurisdictions where they drive on the left. 161 on the right.
Wasn't it Sweden (or Denmark) that changed from left to right overnight back in the 60's ?

Sam Russell

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-_and_left-hand_traffic#Left-hand_traffic

....75 jurisdictions where they drive on the left. 161 on the right.
Wasn't it Sweden (or Denmark) that changed from left to right overnight back in the 60's ?

It was not overnight as such. There was a period of a day ot two when no vehicles were on the road, and then only bus and commercial, and eventually everyone else.

Sweden had a significant population of LHD vehicles prior to switch over, and so switch over was not so onerous. They built the motorways after that.

If we had done it on accession to the EEC in 1972, it would have been possible, but now we have built all the motorways and just to change the signage would be huge, not to mention the requirement to realign some of the junctions. Then we have the vehicles that need to be changed over, scrapped, or exported to UK or Africa.

Poland do not allow RHD vehicles to be registered (iirc).

Kenny Logins

What was this thread about anyway..?

mgbgt1978

Sam Russell wrote: »

Poland do not allow RHD vehicles to be registered (iirc).

Cinio has said that they have been forced to change this, according to one of his recent posts on the regular motors forum.
There was a thread there a year or two ago about a guy selling a 90's Celica and had a lot of interest from a Polish buyer. The seller thought it was a scam, but apparently it worked out cheaper for the buyer to purchase it here, bring it home, and convert to LHD .

Means Of Escape

If the RSA are allowed to get this thing through then the NCT will change the requirements to pass on a whim.
I object to the introduction of a test on these vehicles having no basis for its existence.
As requirements change so does the amount of money in your pocket for what is for most of us a hobby.
The fuel costs to run the cars is high enough
The motor tax on classic vehicles should be in a sliding scale of 10 per cent per annum for any car over 20 years regardless of cc
Motor tax has killed off all the fine high cc cars that were and are in the country making them valueless
This is a money spinning exercise and not a safety issue

It's the monkey driver not the car .

swarlb

Means Of Escape wrote: »

If the RSA are allowed to get this thing through then the NCT will change the requirements to pass on a whim.
I object to the introduction of a test on these vehicles having no basis for its existence.
As requirements change so does the amount of money in your pocket for what is for most of us a hobby.
The fuel costs to run the cars is high enough
The motor tax on classic vehicles should be in a sliding scale of 10 per cent per annum for any car over 20 years regardless of cc
Motor tax has killed off all the fine high cc cars that were and are in the country making them valueless
This is a money spinning exercise and not a safety issue

It's the monkey driver not the car .

Just a question, if road tax for example was 56 Euro a year on lets say a 1998 XJ Sport, or a 2000 CL500, would there suddenly be more of these appearing on the roads, would people start importing them and replacing the fleet of 'euroboxes'. Would familyman with a Zafira, be wafting around happily paying for the running cost of a 5 litre Merc. I doubt it.
Old cars depreciate regardless of road tax.
A 15 year old 'barge' is pretty much valueless regardless of road tax.

Means Of Escape

swarlb wrote: »

Just a question, if road tax for example was 56 Euro a year on lets say a 1998 XJ Sport, or a 2000 CL500, would there suddenly be more of these appearing on the roads, would people start importing them and replacing the fleet of 'euroboxes'. Would familyman with a Zafira, be wafting around happily paying for the running cost of a 5 litre Merc. I doubt it.
Old cars depreciate regardless of road tax.
A 15 year old 'barge' is pretty much valueless regardless of road tax.

I disagree.
They depreciate at a higher rate DUE to the motor tax not so much for its fuel efficiency
Case example. A pre 08 BMW 730 d will cost you less to buy than a 09 BMW 730d even with lower mileage due to the disparity in motor tax rates despite both cars being identical regarding fuel efficiency.
Anyone who has a clue about cars would know that the automotive value and driving experience of a cl500 is not in the same league as an Opel Zafira
There would be a lot more older 4 litre and 5 litre luxury cars on the roads as they would give better bang for your buck due to the low mileage in general, the good service history associated with these expensive cars if they were a one owner vehicle and their build quality .
Motor tax is the killer not fuel costs overall .
If you drive less than 15k kms a year it's madness to buy a diesel as u will never recoup the the premium you paid for the diesel version of the car you bought .
With low mileage travelled in the year the older luxury cars would be a very good buy if the motor tax rates we're not ridiculous for said cars.

carchaeologist

swarlb wrote: »

Just a question, if road tax for example was 56 Euro a year on lets say a 1998 XJ Sport, or a 2000 CL500, would there suddenly be more of these appearing on the roads, would people start importing them and replacing the fleet of 'euroboxes'. Would familyman with a Zafira, be wafting around happily paying for the running cost of a 5 litre Merc. I doubt it.
Old cars depreciate regardless of road tax.
A 15 year old 'barge' is pretty much valueless regardless of road tax.

There is a 94 S500 sitting up here that I would certainly be driving if the tax wasn't so stupid. Whatever about the cost of petrol, giving the bones of €2000 to tax it is sickening.
The cost of taxing older big engine stuff here is certainly a deterrent to using them.

Dades

Exorbitant road tax is definitely a reason many luxury cars from the 80's and 90's aren't on the roads.

Check out this beauty for €5.5K. :eek:



For the same price in the cheap tax bracket you can get this chick-magnet.

macplaxton

Dades wrote: »

Exorbitant road tax is definitely a reason many luxury cars from the 80's and 90's aren't on the roads.

Yes, it's part of the reason, but not the sole one.

Road tax pre-emissions scale (2001) in the UK could be consider by some "cheap" (@ £225 p.a.). However luxobarges have always plummeted in valve because even stripping out the annual circulation tax cost, they still cost a bomb to run in insurance and fuel. Also they potentially cost a packet in repairs and maintenance for all the gizmo and goodies luxobarges have to go wrong along with expensive tyres and the like.

The folk that can afford to run them buy another knew car. The folk that can't afford to run them then take over and end up running them in to the ground. After that it's the knacker's yard or the sausage track.

Tax might well speed up the process, but the process is largely inevitable all the same. When something is worth Y and it starts to cost more than that to keep the wheels turning most folk don't bother.

type85

Any feedback on the meeting in the Spawell last night? It ended up being closed to IVVCC members only.

macplaxton

type85 wrote: »

It ended up being closed to IVVCC members only.

I only ever saw it "officially" advertised as an IVVCC event on their homepage.

type85

The link to the facebook page on here (page10) had it as
"The third public meeting will be held in the Spawell hotel and leisure centre in Templeogue, next Thursday 30th October, at 8pm."
Oh well......

macplaxton

I saw it as public posted here, but don't do FB.

Testacalda

type85 wrote: »

It ended up being closed to IVVCC members only.

I think that was just to stop a massive crowd coming and jamming the place up, but as it happened you could just walk in once you arrived. You had to sign an attendance form but there were no comments passed about club membership or affiliation.

It was a presentation on the recommended responses to put in the response form and a bit of Q&A from the floor. Tom Heavey from Irish vintage scene was there, and Miles O Riley from AXA insurance. IIRC he said the only 0.45% of classic insurance policies result in claims, far less than the modern car equivalent. Safety related accidents for classics were so low they didn't even register on their system when the details were put into the formula.

An IVVCC guy also eluded to this 2012 report about accident rates, its interesting stuff actually...

https://www.vda.de/en/meldungen/archiv/2012/10/01/3059/

Means Of Escape

macplaxton wrote: »

Yes, it's part of the reason, but not the sole one.

Road tax pre-emissions scale (2001) in the UK could be consider by some "cheap" (@ £225 p.a.). However luxobarges have always plummeted in valve because even stripping out the annual circulation tax cost, they still cost a bomb to run in insurance and fuel. Also they potentially cost a packet in repairs and maintenance for all the gizmo and goodies luxobarges have to go wrong along with expensive tyres and the like.

The folk that can afford to run them buy another knew car. The folk that can't afford to run them then take over and end up running them in to the ground. After that it's the knacker's yard or the sausage track.

Tax might well speed up the process, but the process is largely inevitable all the same. When something is worth Y and it starts to cost more than that to keep the wheels turning most folk don't bother.

It's the main reason why these large engines cars are no longer on the roads.The fact that they cost 3 to 4 times the price of a family car at the time would tell you A) they are a superior built car b) are a totally different driving experienced) c) being mostly automatic were not attractive to the lads who would dog a car hence the repair bills would not necessarily be that high given that they were well maintained and a better engineered car.
The insurance isn't an issue given the low value of the car and that most who would buy a luxobarge are not in their 20s or even their early 30s
Again if one is doing relatively low mileage the fuel costs are not a major issue so it boils down to the mOtor tax issue .
Having to pay 3 times what one would pay for example a Lexus ls400 puts most people off and is what has forced most people to SORD cars of a high cc.
If the tax was like in the UK I guarantee that S class Mercedes,Honda Legends, and other models that are 3 litre and above would be seen on the roads.
I would argue that the most sensible thing that the government could do apart from putting the tax on fuel would be to have a flat rate of 150 euros motor tax for all classic cars 20 years or older.
The way it stands it will keep perfectly good cars ,that are worth keeping ,off the roads which is now the case.

galwaytt

swarlb wrote: »

Just a question, if road tax for example was 56 Euro a year on lets say a 1998 XJ Sport, or a 2000 CL500, would there suddenly be more of these appearing on the roads, would people start importing them and replacing the fleet of 'euroboxes'. Would familyman with a Zafira, be wafting around happily paying for the running cost of a 5 litre Merc. I doubt it.
Old cars depreciate regardless of road tax.
A 15 year old 'barge' is pretty much valueless regardless of road tax.

.....it's unlikely more will appear, unless MB start making old 2nd hand cars..........by the time anything would happen here, they'll all have been scrapped so it'll be too late. And with no-one buying any new ones then there isn't a crop of them to get, into the future. Cars like my 03 911 are a buy now or miss the boat completely.............

Silvera

Means Of Escape wrote: »

I would argue that the most sensible thing that the government could do apart from putting the tax on fuel would be to have a flat rate of 150 euros motor tax for all classic cars 20 years or older. The way it stands it will keep perfectly good cars ,that are worth keeping ,off the roads which is now the case.

While €150 pa would be great, it's never going to happen imho.
A more realistic option would be to halve a vehicle's relevant road tax rate when it reaches age 20+, and half again when it reaches age 25+.

That way, the current crazy situation where a 3.0 litre car costs €1800p.a. to tax at age 29, and €56p.a to tax at age 30, would be eliminated.

Sam Russell

Is this consultation about testing historic vehicles intended to actually find out anything that is not known already?

1. Historic vehicle are not involved in many (if any) accidents that would be prevented by testing.

2. They are not driven far each year. (<3,000km) Mainly, they only see the road on a dry, warm, summer day, while holidaying in a snug garage when not out to play. Ideal driving conditions or ideal storage conditions.

3. There are not many of them. (30,000)

4. They are driven, on the whole, by mature people who have been driving for many years. (Typically those aged between 30 and 60).

5. Insurance companies are not calling for testing, and they would pay out if there was a real issue.

6. The vehicles are cherished and well maintained by the owners (not main dealers or bodgers). If it requires fixing or maintenance - it gets it.

It is the fear of damage to the prized possession and fake failures that has owners against testing. The NCT has a bad reputation in this area.