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Central Bank accepting submissions on the mortgage LTV proposals (i.e 80% mortgages)

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    #2
    superman28
    Registered Users Posts: 176 ✭✭superman28


    This is more for the lobby groups and vested interest groups than the average punter..

    As a FTB myself,, this affects me.. I do however, having read the paper found this to be one of the first sensible things done to the housing market in Ireland in the last 20 years..


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    #3
    km991148
    Registered Users Posts: 4,275 ✭✭✭km991148


    This is a sensible move imo, however more should be done at both ends of the market - i.e. repossessions for those who cannot afford to maintain silly mortgages as one example..

    Otherwise we will be storing up more and more problems..


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    #4
    gmisk
    Registered Users Posts: 32,806 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    As a FTB with 20% (just about) saved, this seems like a sensible idea to me


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    #5
    Eldarion
    Registered Users Posts: 484 ✭✭Eldarion


    gmisk wrote: »
    As a FTB with 20% (just about) saved, this seems like a sensible idea to me

    No need to specify the qualifier in this statement. All it does is undermine your opinion as you are in a position to completely benefit from this change.

    Would you feel the same way if it was 40% required? What about 60%?


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    #6
    gmisk
    Registered Users Posts: 32,806 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    Eldarion wrote: »
    No need to specify the qualifier in this statement. All it does is undermine your opinion as you are in a position to completely benefit from this change.

    Would you feel the same way if it was 40% required? What about 60%?
    20% seems like a sensible enough amount to me, I am still entitled to an opinion, even though I "might" benefit from this change.

    Something has to be done to allow first time buyers who work and save hard for years to not be renters if they so choose for the rest of their lives in Dublin.

    Greater repossessions (especially BTL) and tight regulation of estate agents would also help an awful awful lot in my opinion.


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    #7
    Eldarion
    Registered Users Posts: 484 ✭✭Eldarion


    gmisk wrote: »
    20% seems like a sensible enough amount to me, I am still entitled to an opinion, even though I "might" benefit from this change.

    Something has to be done to allow first time buyers who work and save hard for years to not be renters if they so choose for the rest of their lives in Dublin.

    Greater repossessions (especially BTL) and tight regulation of estate agents would also help an awful awful lot in my opinion.

    Of course you are, but you're also entitled to get your opinion called weightless as you "WILL" benefit from this change. :) Your competition will be slashed significantly and prices will drop in your favor. As you currently do not own property you do not lose out on the sell side and stand to get significantly more for your money than you would have without this change.

    I do actually agree with you that 20% is sensible, it's just your statement came off quite naive. The deck is aiming to get nice and stacked in favor FTBs who have their deposit ready so you really are sitting pretty, as such you have the least weight in this debate.


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    #8
    gmisk
    Registered Users Posts: 32,806 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    "WILL"?
    I didn't realise you had a time machine fair play.

    I have no idea what position you are in, so I cant exactly call your opinion "weightless" why not enlighten me oh weighted one!
    You come off as unnecessarily rude and dismissive of someone elses opinion.....even though it doesnt seem to vary that much from your own....bizarrely.

    "seems like a sensible idea to me" is that better?

    Less "naive"?


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    #9
    Eldarion
    Registered Users Posts: 484 ✭✭Eldarion


    gmisk wrote: »
    "WILL"?
    I didn't realise you had a time machine fair play.

    I have no idea what position you are in, so I cant exactly call your opinion "weightless" why not enlighten me oh weighted one!
    You come off as unnecessarily rude and dismissive of someone elses opinion.....even though it doesnt seem to vary that much from your own....bizarrely.

    "seems like a sensible idea to me" is that better?

    Less "naive"?

    You don't need a time machine to make a prediction that a significant reduction in demand will result in falling prices. First year Economics class here, I don't want to bring up that naive word again...

    Much better statement. You really can't see the difference between the statement you made and the statement the other potential FTB, Superman28, made in this thread? And why, even though both of the statements said it was sensible idea, his post carried more weight than yours?


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    #10
    Heisenberg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,511 ✭✭✭Heisenberg1


    Eldarion wrote: »
    Of course you are, but you're also entitled to get your opinion called weightless as you "WILL" benefit from this change. :) Your competition will be slashed significantly and prices will drop in your favor. As you currently do not own property you do not lose out on the sell side and stand to get significantly more for your money than you would have without this change.

    I do actually agree with you that 20% is sensible, it's just your statement came off quite naive. The deck is aiming to get nice and stacked in favor FTBs who have their deposit ready so you really are sitting pretty, as such you have the least weight in this debate.

    Why will competition be slashed and prices drop? I really don't think this will make that much of an impact the way people think it will. Banks have been adopting this approach of tighter lending for the last few years the days of the big mortgages on small salaries is well over. Banks have been much more rigorous in terms of stress testing applications like never before. Prices will not drop because of this measure prices have risen due to lack of supply and that doesn't look like it will improve for the foreseeable future. Next year there may be modest gains in prices compared to what has happened in the last 12 months.


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    #11
    gmisk
    Registered Users Posts: 32,806 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    Eldarion wrote: »
    You don't need a time machine to make a prediction that a significant reduction in demand will result in falling prices. First year Economics class here, I don't want to bring up that naive word again...

    Much better statement. You really can't see the difference between the statement you made and the statement the other potential FTB, Superman28, made in this thread? And why, even though both of the statements said it was sensible idea, his post carried more weight than yours?
    There is really no need for the rude and demeaning tone of your replies Eldarion.

    I was saying I basically agreed with what was being said that is all, I wasn't writing a detailed thesis of why. Shall we move on....


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    #12
    2rkehij30qtza5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,476 ✭✭✭2rkehij30qtza5


    Heisenberg1 wrote: »
    Why will competition be slashed and prices drop?

    I think prices will drop a lot as you won't have the same volume of people mortgage approved at 80% LTV as you would have 92% LTV as you currently have. Less people = less demand = lower prices.


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    #13
    Eldarion
    Registered Users Posts: 484 ✭✭Eldarion


    Heisenberg1 wrote: »
    Why will competition be slashed and prices drop? I really don't think this will make that much of an impact the way people think it will. Banks have been adopting this approach of tighter lending for the last few years the days of the big mortgages on small salaries is well over. Banks have been much more rigorous in terms of stress testing applications like never before. Prices will not drop because of this measure prices have risen due to lack of supply and that doesn't look like it will improve for the foreseeable future. Next year there may be modest gains in prices compared to what has happened in the last 12 months.

    Plenty of people out there now shorting Irish property off the back of this. Lots of money to be made if you truly believe prices will not drop.

    Yes banks have been stress testing applicants more stringently since the bust but a 20% requirement and a hard cap on LTV/LTI is another beast entirely. If it goes through as predicted, demand HAS to drop in the short to medium term as a significant proportion of FTB will have their approval levels reduced or removed completely.


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    #14
    Heisenberg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,511 ✭✭✭Heisenberg1


    Talia Bewildered Rioter wrote: »
    I think prices will drop a lot as you won't have the same volume of people mortgage approved at 80% LTV as you would have 92% LTV as you currently have. Less people = less demand = lower prices.

    FTB always have made up a small portion of the property market. I think there is huge amounts of people with more than 20% deposits siting in there accounts and on good salaries waiting to make there move the problem is lack of supply.


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    #15
    Heisenberg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,511 ✭✭✭Heisenberg1


    Eldarion wrote: »
    Plenty of people out there now shorting Irish property off the back of this. Lots of money to be made if you truly believe prices will not drop.

    Yes banks have been stress testing applicants more stringently since the bust but a 20% requirement and a hard cap on LTV/LTI is another beast entirely. If it goes through as predicted, demand HAS to drop in the short to medium term as a significant proportion of FTB will have their approval levels reduced or removed completely.

    But would you agree that FTB have always been a small portion of the market. As I said earlier the single biggest problem is lack of supply and until that is addressed price will continue to rise but I imagine by much smaller gains than the last 12months.


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