Budget live thread

_taytothief

geeksauce wrote: »

Here Here, awarding people on Social Welfare for remaining on it for yet another year. Good one Labour. I work full time 40+ hours per week yet I wont have any chance of getting a Christmas Bonus. Seriously what is wrong with this country that it gives people a 'bonus' for doing nothing.

You'd make a good Santa I'd say. I'm more inclined to look at taxes myself, rather than bitching about pensioners getting, what? €25 at Christmas.

Rightwing

wonderfulname wrote: »

The idea of JA/JB is that people are given the bare minimum to get by while looking for work, necessary expenditure increases at christmas so a bonus reflects this. Social welfare recepients include the disabled, elderly, those on income supports, people under 25 on jobsbridge schemes with a whopping 150e income for a 40hr week, people who have been net contributors to the state and have fallen on hard times and many others. There are still not enough jobs in this country to employ everyone, and not everyone who is employed can be in a manner they are independent of the state, it is not even economically possible for any country to have a zero unemployment rate, I do not understand this hostility to people in an already bad situation. It could be you some day.

True and good post, but maybe the money could be spend in a better way, eg training or something to get them out of the poverty.

chopper6

wonderfulname wrote: »

The idea of JA/JB is that people are given the bare minimum to get by while looking for work, necessary expenditure increases at christmas so a bonus reflects this. .

After taxes and everything else is paid it's the working man who's left with the bare minimum.

"necessary expenditure increases" for EVERYBODY at christmas so why are those who dont work the only people to benefit from a christmas bonus?

And as for "looking for work"..how many of them actually are? There are many thousands of people who will NEVER work and will pour this generous bonus that *I* paid for down thier throats along with all the other money we give them.

soap1978

chopper6 wrote: »

After taxes and everything else is paid it's the working man who's left with the bare minimum.

"necessary expenditure increases" for EVERYBODY at christmas so why are those who dont work the only people to benefit from a christmas bonus?

And as for "looking for work"..how many of them actually are? There are many thousands of people who will NEVER work and will pour this generous bonus that *I* paid for down thier throats along with all the other money we give them.

quit ur job and go on the dole and see how good it is

Mantis Toboggan

Really thought they would have reduced VAT to encourage spending.

chopper6

soap1978 wrote: »

quit ur job and go on the dole and see how good it is

No...taking handouts isnt my thing.

Outkast_IRE

_taytothief wrote: »

Shower of clowns. If you accuse the chair of bias, he just kicks you out?

He simply asked her to withdraw the remark, and she carried on playing it up, its theater from her. There must be some order in proceedings or else even less would be done.

wonderfulname

Rightwing wrote: »

True and good post, but maybe the money could be spend in a better way, eg training or something to get them out of the poverty.

It's not that much money, and it will go straight back into the local economy. It's not enough for any form of training and you can't train someone 10 years younger or more able bodied, as much as it's claimed you can't even train someone to get a job that doesn't exist.

I'd have thought a cash injection to local high streets was a good use of funds.

chopper6

wonderfulname wrote: »

I'd have thought a cash injection to local high streets was a good use of funds.

Anybody would think that...instead the Govt give money to Syria and "the arts".

wonderfulname

chopper6 wrote: »

Anybody would think that...instead the Govt give money to Syria and "the arts".

I was referring to the christmas bonus as a high street cash injection.

Rightwing

wonderfulname wrote: »

It's not that much money, and it will go straight back into the local economy. It's not enough for any form of training and you can't train someone 10 years younger or more able bodied, as much as it's claimed you can't even train someone to get a job that doesn't exist.

I'd have thought a cash injection to local high streets was a good use of funds.

Yes and no, but better than giving it to cronies in quangos and the likes anyway.

chopper6

wonderfulname wrote: »

I was referring to the christmas bonus as a high street cash injection.

Well then give it to the PAYE workers instead

quadrifoglio verde

Red Alert wrote: »

This should've been a tax-only budget. Child benefit didn't need to be raised, and most people who work (funding social welfare) don't get a "Christmas Bonus", least of all those of us in the public sector. Labour party budget if you ask me.

Agreed. If they wanted to give an increase in child benefit while also stimulating the incentive to work, increasing the amount at which use kicks in for a mother would have been much more beneficial.

eaglewings

Does anyone know if there are any changes to the Back To Work Enterprise Allowance Scheme?

All I could find was a general statement of €10million being added to it, but nothing about the context of that or the implications it will have on the scheme.

Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Is there an election next year or something? A fair bit of giving away but in my circumstances I am going to be either Neutral or slightly worse off as a result of this Budget.

Packrat

I'm disgusted anyway.

Auction politics again. They have learned nothing.

After this budget FG have now lost a voter here. I was going to give them another chance to continue the changes necessary to set our country on some sort of sustainable path. This is a fcuking joke and once again we return to being about one peg above a banana republic.

About the only thing they didn't do was announce wage increases for public servants. That'll be next year. That budget will put this one in the shade.

Sad thing is though, the loss of my vote won't matter, as they bought plenty today to offset the loss of any of us who wanted common sense to apply.

They are borrowing money to scatter it to the four winds.

.

quadrifoglio verde

Packrat wrote: »

I'm disgusted anyway.

Auction politics again. They have learned nothing.

After this budget FG have now lost a voter here. I was going to give them another chance to continue the changes necessary to set our country on some sort of sustainable path. This is a fcuking joke and once again we return to being about one peg above a banana republic.

About the only thing they didn't do was announce wage increases for public servants. That'll be next year. That budget will put this one in the shade.

Sad thing is though, the loss of my vote won't matter, as they bought plenty today to offset the loss of any of us who wanted common sense to apply.

They are borrowing money to scatter it to the four winds.

.

Out of curiosity who will you vote for? In my opinion, they're the best of a bad bunch if you're anyway inclined towards the economic right

Stheno

quadrifoglio verde wrote: »

Out of curiosity who will you vote for? In my opinion, they're the best of a bad bunch if you're anyway inclined towards the economic right

Agreed, they've come in on deficit targets a year ahead of schedule, reduced unemployment by 1/3 and had the balls to take action today on the housing situation

titan18

quadrifoglio verde wrote: »

Out of curiosity who will you vote for? In my opinion, they're the best of a bad bunch if you're anyway inclined towards the economic right

Them being the best is what scares me when they have budgets like that and what we all expect they'll do in further budgets.

If they're the only choice, I'll vote for them due to that and hope they get a majority. Hoping that either Creighton (even though I don't agree with her on social issues) creates a new party, a new party to represent the right gets created, or Varadker ousts Kenny as leader of FG.

Packrat

quadrifoglio verde wrote: »

Out of curiosity who will you vote for? In my opinion, they're the best of a bad bunch if you're anyway inclined towards the economic right

I was hoping for a new party of the right who along with FG might actually do what's needed.

Now? I don't know. We're fcuked with politicians like these.

Stheno wrote: »

Agreed, they've come in on deficit targets a year ahead of schedule, reduced unemployment by 1/3 and had the balls to take action today on the housing situation

No, "they" didn't. A fortunate turn of events did. All they did was implement the troikas agreement, that didn't go far enough to correct the structural problem in this economy where waste is the order of the day, and interest groups are protected.

titan18 wrote: »

Them being the best is what scares me when they have budgets like that and what we all expect they'll do in further budgets.

If they're the only choice, I'll vote for them due to that and hope they get a majority. Hoping that either Creighton (even though I don't agree with her on social issues) creates a new party, a new party to represent the right gets created, or Varadker ousts Kenny as leader of FG.

That might help, but I won't hold my breath, the corruption and self interest runs too deep in Irish politics.

Icepick

Mr Howlin said the rate of Child Benefit would increase by €5 per child from January and would go up by a further €5 in 2016 if circumstances allowed.

He said 180,000 older people would benefit from a €9 weekly increase to the Living Alone Allowance.

All recipients of core social welfare payments will receive a Christmas bonus this year of 25 per cent of their weekly payment, he said.

Mr Howlin said a Water Subsidy worth €100 per year would be granted to all recipients of the Household Benefits Package and Fuel Allowance, with the measures benefitting 653,000 households.

All wrong

shruikan2553

If you are working you get something off the water charges and if you are on the dole or have a pension you get something off. If only I wasnt a student.

Stheno

Icepick wrote: »

All wrong

How is that all wrong?

Cookie_Monster

what is the point of tax relief on water rather than simply lowering the cost of it directly? So now there is an additional layer of bureaucracy to administer and the inevitable increased cost of monitoring and policing it. I wonder what the cost of every euro in relief actually works out at for the revenue.

Quazzie

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

what is the point of tax relief on water rather than simply lowering the cost of it directly? So now there is an additional layer of bureaucracy to administer and the inevitable increased cost of monitoring and policing it. I wonder what the cost of every euro in relief actually works out at for the revenue.

I wonder is it to make sure that people register, because if they don't they can be billed but not get tax relief.

Icepick

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

what is the point of tax relief on water rather than simply lowering the cost of it directly?

It's an income tax credit.

Icepick

Stheno wrote: »

How is that all wrong?

Welfare should be cut, not increased.
There should be other ways to relieve child rearing, which would benefit kids who actually needed.

Icepick

Also, rent tax credit down by €40.

Cookie_Monster

Icepick wrote: »

It's an income tax credit.

yes, I'm aware of that. but instead of creating such a credit why not simply reduce the unit cost and save on background costs? The move makes zero sense to me from anything other than a 'getting people to register' point of view.

FF stayed in government because they had lots of give away budgets which ultimately destroyed the country.
FG haven't gone that far, at least they didn't provide tax incentives to try and bolster the housing market. It remains to be seen how far they have prolonged/delayed our recovery and debt burden through this Budget.

FREETV

There are still a heck of a lot of gullible people in this Country.
Register and send your forms to Irish Water, pay your Water Tax for toxic, contaminated water and see what will happen at the beginning of 2016 as it is Privatised and the water charges double.

Stop voting in corrupt scum and don't fall for little sweeteners in Budgets to make sure that you register.
Your PPSN and other personal details will be divulged to other Marketing Companies.

March and protest on November 1.

Godge

FREETV wrote: »

There are still a heck of a lot of gullible people in this Country.
Register and send your forms to Irish Water, pay your Water Tax for toxic, contaminated water and see what will happen at the beginning of 2016 as it is Privatised and the water charges double.

Stop voting in corrupt scum and don't fall for little sweeteners in Budgets to make sure that you register.
Your PPSN will be divulged to other Marketing Companies.

March and protest on November 1.

Gullible is right.

Imagine believing that your PPSN number is of any use to a marketing company. They would much prefer your PPSN number over your name, phone number, email address and address as it is much easier to contact you through your PPSN number than any of the other options.

Imagine believing that within one year of setting it up the government will sell Irish Water to a private company despite refusing to sell other infrastructure such as the gas and electricity networks.

Imagine believing that by not signing up, the worst that will happen is that you pay the same as everyone else when in reality you won't get your allowance and you won't get your tax relief.

Yeah, people are just so gullible. They remind me of the people who said they would never pay the household levy and the LPT.

We should organise a protest march against gullible people.

FREETV

I wash my hands of anyone who will vote for the three main parties again in the next General Election.

People need to waken up.
Taxing water is criminal.

murphaph

niamh.foley wrote: »

its always the way politics work take take take and once elections are on the way its give give give,

Not here. The budget here isn't this great big show the way it is in the UK and Ireland. Politicians there love it and the public buy into it.

Dannyboy83

Stheno wrote: »

Agreed, they've come in on deficit targets a year ahead of schedule, reduced unemployment by 1/3 and had the balls to take action today on the housing situation

http://www.irishexaminer.com/business/features/kennys-irrational-behaviour-hard-to-understand-290664.html
In very difficult circumstances, the Government has presided over and can take some credit for the improved fortunes of the economy. Yet it is still performing poorly in the opinion polls and I have heard a number of Fine Gael people express wonder at the ingratitude of the electorate.

Not disputing they are the least worst option.

But for example:
come in on deficit targets a year ahead of schedule - by making Ireland the fifth highest personal income tax jurisdiction in the EU, yet only abolishing 45 quangos & creating 33 new ones (remedy as bad as the disease?)

Least worst != Good

The bitter truth is the electorate believe Fianna Fail would have done the same had they stayed in office and Fine Gael know it.
The electorate voted for reform and in that context, the perception is that FG have yet to deliver - that is the reason for the 'ingratitude'.

(I'm still waiting for Irish to be made optional)

barneystinson

murphaph wrote: »

Not here. The budget here isn't this great big show the way it is in the UK and Ireland. Politicians there love it and the public buy into it.

So, as with about 90% of your posts here, you seem to be suggesting Germany is superior and Ireland should be more like Germany, and Irish people should culturally and in their attitudes be more like German people..?

I don't know why you post here, instead of on Boards.de - on the "aren't us Germans great and look at those poor soft-headed Irish" forum...

murphaph

barneystinson wrote: »

So, as with about 90% of your posts here, you seem to be suggesting Germany is superior and Ireland should be more like Germany, and Irish people should culturally and in their attitudes be more like German people..?

I don't know why you post here, instead of on Boards.de - on the "aren't us Germans great and look at those poor soft-headed Irish" forum...

Jesus wept. You read all that into my posts? Germany is one of the most prosperous and stable countries in the world. I'm suggesting we adopt some of the things (including government by concensus rather than the theatrical Westminster model) that makes it so. You don't want to learn anything about how other countries do things? Fine. Don't have a pop at me though.

For the record and if it makes you happy...Ireland does some things better, but not politics.

efb

I really wonder do some people here think realise we live in a society and not a bubble...

jank

murphaph wrote: »

Not here. The budget here isn't this great big show the way it is in the UK and Ireland. Politicians there love it and the public buy into it.

Much the same in OZ and NZ. The national budget isn't this big media extravaganza that Ireland makes it out to be. There is something actually seedy and disturbing about it. Like kids after days or weeks screaming for pocket money from daddy, to see on the day what coins will be brandished from his pocket and given to the child who screamed loudest.

I honestly thought we learned a lesson but alas the Irish voter gets what the voter wants. We will have another 2008 in about 15 years or so. Its inevitable.

Speak Now

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

yes, I'm aware of that. but instead of creating such a credit why not simply reduce the unit cost and save on background costs? The move makes zero sense to me from anything other than a 'getting people to register' point of view.

Is it available to everyone or just Irish Water customers? If everyone (Private wells and group schemes etc) gets it then it makes sense to give it as a credit I guess.

dinorebel

Rightwing wrote: »

I've no problem with them getting that. Might help them to do something.

Bigger Mercedes for the Presidents it is then.

geeksauce

Packrat wrote: »

I'm disgusted anyway.

Auction politics again. They have learned nothing.

After this budget FG have now lost a voter here. I was going to give them another chance to continue the changes necessary to set our country on some sort of sustainable path. This is a fcuking joke and once again we return to being about one peg above a banana republic.

About the only thing they didn't do was announce wage increases for public servants. That'll be next year. That budget will put this one in the shade.

Sad thing is though, the loss of my vote won't matter, as they bought plenty today to offset the loss of any of us who wanted common sense to apply.

They are borrowing money to scatter it to the four winds.

.

I don't think it was necessarily auction politics, the economic outlook has improved as a result of tough decisions made by the government in recent years. FF were dab hands at auction politics the difference between the two is that FF were giving away money when it simply wasn't there.

The current government made tough decisions the last few years and have now something to show for it, and are giving that back to the people, may not necessarily be to the right people but they are basing their budgets on the economic outlook rather than the need to impress people and win votes as FF did for so many years.

seamus

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

what is the point of tax relief on water rather than simply lowering the cost of it directly?

Because the cost of water isn't levied directly by the government. In order to reduce the cost of it directly, the government would need to subsidise Irish Water to compensate them for the drop in revenue, which although it appears simpler, is generally known to be a bad idea because it's wasteful and harder to manage.

It also means that the government isn't interfering with Irish Water's revenue stream (pun intended) by providing them direct capital, which has weird regulatory, legal and taxation implications.

JoeCole26

When does the 1% decrease in the income tax rate come into effect? Thanks

seamus

Direct taxes, USC, etc changes come into effect from 1st January.

practice

Lest we forget the type of man Michael Noonan is,

"When he was Minister for Health in the 1990s Michael Noonan and his bureaucratic minions hounded Bridget McCole, even on her deathbed, to stop her fight for justice against a state which had poisoned and eventually killed her.

Because she was dying Bridget McCole caved into threats and bullying and accepted a measly £175,000 compensation from the state. She only accepted the money so that her family would have something after she died.

Michael Noonan’s behaviour throughout was ruthless and callous."

Godge

practice wrote: »

Lest we forget the type of man Michael Noonan is,

"When he was Minister for Health in the 1990s Michael Noonan and his bureaucratic minions hounded Bridget McCole, even on her deathbed, to stop her fight for justice against a state which had poisoned and eventually killed her.

Because she was dying Bridget McCole caved into threats and bullying and accepted a measly £175,000 compensation from the state. She only accepted the money so that her family would have something after she died.

Michael Noonan’s behaviour throughout was ruthless and callous."

For an insight into the type of man Michael Noonan is, watch this.

http://www.rte.ie/news/player/2010/0531/2763557-interview/

seamus

practice wrote: »

"Michael Noonan’s behaviour throughout was ruthless and callous."

...according to the opinion of some crackpot on a one-man "enquiry" quest.

http://www.publicinquiry.eu/2014/02/14/michael-noonan-as-ruthless-and-callous-as-ever/

Have you got any unbiased information on this incident? The only things I can find are the above and an independent.ie opinion piece.

Riskymove

JoeCole26 wrote: »

When does the 1% decrease in the income tax rate come into effect? Thanks

January

Monife

seamus wrote: »

Direct taxes, USC, etc changes come into effect from 1st January.

Why is it that the above comes into effect in January, yet the increase in tax on cigarettes etc comes in from midnight after budget day. Not a smoker but this really annoys me!