Ireland v Germany

Billy86

GBXI wrote: »

Again, I don't want to be seen as some Whelan fan boy, far from it, but people are way off the mark if they think the above is true. Both Meyler and Gibson have done next to nothing at club level compared to Whelan, hence the lack of international level opportunities they've received. On top of that, Whelan in general does a solid job for Ireland in what is a very tough position. I don't think Gibson will ever be defensively strong enough to play in a 2 man mid-field and Meyler has to start playing regularly at club before he can claim a starting spot as well.

Gibson was a serviceable squad player for Man United earlier in his career - nothing spectacular, but he scored 10 goals in 58 games over three years and was ok. Since then he has moved in to Everton, a notably better team than Stoke, where he was a key player for his first 18 months - though he has been out for a full year injured until just a few weeks ago, which I think has more to do with his not starting last night than anything else. Since when is that "next to nothing"?

Nerdlingr

Played in and won two league cup finals, has a Premier league medal, played in the champions league (and scored against Bayern in the Q/F)...sure thats nothing next to Glenn Whelans record of .... ????

CSF

Billy86 wrote: »

Gibson was a serviceable squad player for Man United earlier in his career - nothing spectacular, but he scored 10 goals in 58 games over three years and was ok. Since then he has moved in to Everton, a notably better team than Stoke, where he was a key player for his first 18 months - though he has been out for a full year injured until just a few weeks ago, which I think has more to do with his not starting last night than anything else. Since when is that "next to nothing"?

Darren Gibson has never and will never be a key player for Everton. This is complete fabrication.

ionadnapokot

Billy86 wrote: »

Exactly - I think the telling point was the one good chance we got before their goal. Decent chance from us, seconds later it almost resulted in a goal for Podolski (and we were lucky Schurrle was out because I reckon he scored that chance). If we played open from the offset it would have been almost guaranteed that for every decent chance we had, they would have had about three more on top of typically another great chance on the counter. We also would have been far more tired than we were by the 70th minute, without even bringing up the fact that we likely would have been two, three or even four goals down.

I think that example is an unfair one considering we were a goal down and chasing the game.
I think the idea of playing a trio of Gibson- Quinn-Hoolihan and asking them to keep possession and feed the wingers is where the argument is. Whealan-Quinn-McGeady are never going to provide that platform.
Play the better footballers and instruct them to pass the ball. Its not rocket science. And It doesn't mean we have to be gung-ho about things.

GBXI

Billy86 wrote: »

Gibson was a serviceable squad player for Man United earlier in his career - nothing spectacular, but he scored 10 goals in 58 games over three years and was ok. Since then he has moved in to Everton, a notably better team than Stoke, where he was a key player for his first 18 months - though he has been out for a full year injured until just a few weeks ago, which I think has more to do with his not starting last night than anything else. Since when is that "next to nothing"?

Gibson might have scored 10 goals in 58 games for Utd over 3 years in FIFA or ProEvo but he certainly hasn't done that in real life! Everton are noticeable better than Stoke but Gibson has never been, and in my opinion, is unlikely to ever be a regular starter for them. He certainly was never a key player. Compared to Whelan's career he has done very little.

Nerdlingr

ionadnapokot wrote: »

I think that example is an unfair one considering we were a goal down and chasing the game.
I think the idea of playing a trio of Gibson- Quinn-Hoolihan and asking them to keep possession and feed the wingers is where the argument is. Whealan-Quinn-McGeady are never going to provide that platform.
Play the better footballers and instruct them to pass the ball. Its not rocket science. And It doesn't mean we have to be gung-ho about things.

Spot on.
Its a simple game really. Defend like we did, but when we get the ball try and hold on to it a bit better. Relieve some presuure. Trust in your own ability. Pass the ball.
We don't have to attack the opposition willy-nilly but we can control portions of the game when we're in possession. Create series where we put 4-5 passes together.
Thats the improvement we were hoping for since Trap's time... no more lumping and hoofing it 50 yards up the pitch up to Robbie only to see the ball come back at us again and again.
I hope MON gets it right eventually, like Strachen is doing with the Scots, but he's gotta pick the right team first!

Nerdlingr

GBXI wrote: »

Gibson might have scored 10 goals in 58 games for Utd over 3 years in FIFA or ProEvo but he certainly hasn't done that in real life! Everton are noticeable better than Stoke but Gibson has never been, and in my opinion, is unlikely to ever be a regular starter for them. He certainly was never a key player. Compared to Whelan's career he has done very little.

You might want to check your sources there GBXI.

GBXI

Nerdlingr wrote: »

Played in and won two league cup finals, has a Premier league medal, played in the champions league (and scored against Bayern in the Q/F)...sure thats nothing next to Glenn Whelans record of .... ????

Glenn Whelan is an established Premier League player, Gibson is not. He didn't even come close to nailing down a regular place at UTD and he hasn't done so at Everton either. Just because someone has a medal doesn't mean they are automatically better than someone who doesn't - seriously weak argument. Djibril Cisse has a Champions League medal, Alan Shearer doesn't - it would be idiotic to say Cisse is/was a better player.

GBXI

Nerdlingr wrote: »

You might want to check your sources there GBXI.

Apologies, I was counting his 3 league goals, not goals in all comps.

Lord Trollington

I'd like to see the Irish bench - Subs, Keane and MON'S reaction to the late goal last night.

I wonder was it picked up by any camera?

homerjay2005

apologies if already posted, but a fan in the home end, took a few vidoes of the ireland fans....

Singing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMcghxfheaM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ECdG8BNcQA

immediate aftermath of the goal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qa7kTZT9qQc

final whistle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rMqziunFZQ

fantastic stuff from our fans as usual.

Nerdlingr

GBXI wrote: »

Glenn Whelan is an established Premier League player, Gibson is not. He didn't even come close to nailing down a regular place at UTD and he hasn't done so at Everton either. Just because someone has a medal doesn't mean they are automatically better than someone who doesn't - seriously weak argument. Djibril Cisse has a Champions League medal, Alan Shearer doesn't - it would be idiotic to say Cisse is/was a better player.

You said Gibson has done "next to nothing" in his career.
I merely pointed out that he's played in two league cup finals, a championship winning team and played at the highest level in European club football. I would consider that 'something'.
I didnt automatically suggest that just becasue he's done all these things and has a league medal that he's better than Whelan, in fact...it was you who made the assumption that Whelan was better because the other two had done "nothing".

Happyman42

Who is the German who hasn't the confidence in his team mates ability to deal with McGeady and leaves Hoolihan free for the cross?

http://gfycat.com/VelvetyAlienatedCaribou

GBXI

Nerdlingr wrote: »

You said Gibson has done "next to nothing" in his career.
I merely pointed out that he's played in two league cup finals, a championship winning team and played at the highest level in European club football. I would consider that 'something'.
I didnt automatically suggest that just becasue he's done all these things and has a league medal that he's better than Whelan, in fact...it was you who made the assumption that Whelan was better because the other two had done "nothing".

I still consider it to be 'nothing' compared to Whelan who has fully established himself as a PL player. Gibson happened to be at UTD when they won trophies but he had minimal effect on those wins and never established himself as a regular starter there.

Gibson made his senior Irish debut in 2007 and has since received 23 more caps. In 2008 Whelan made his debut and has since received 60 more caps. Point being, Whelan gets a lot of abuse but I think the people who say he's useless and can't understand why he makes the team at all show themselves up for their lack of football knowledge and understanding.

kfallon

GBXI wrote: »

Gibson made his senior Irish debut in 2007 and has since received 23 more caps. In 2008 Whelan made his debut and has since received 60 more caps. Point being, Whelan gets a lot of abuse but I think the people who say he's useless and can't understand why he makes the team at all show themselves up for their lack of football knowledge and understanding.

People who say the same about Paul McShane, do they show themselves up for their lack of knowledge and understanding too just cos a few managers bought him and he prob has 40 or 50 caps?

Billy86

CSF wrote: »

Darren Gibson has never and will never be a key player for Everton. This is complete fabrication.

Funny that, he started almost every game he was fit for from the time he joined them until his injury last year and in that time they won 52% of games he started vs 25% of those he didn't or was injured for. oh, and Everton fans also disagree with you...

http://www.grandoldteam.com/forum/threads/darron-gibson.47274/page-12

He's the anchor we needed in midfield to allow others to play and is one of the main reasons Rodwell has been sold.

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Boss player, one of Moyes best ever buys without a shadow of a doubt.

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If we get Martinez there will be no need to sign mc carthy, we already have a much better version of him in Gibson , with a great shot.

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Gibson's been a class signing for us, a proper CM. I can't believe I ever doubted him

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I theink he has the longer term making of everton legend in him

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I think he's one of the best signings Moyes has made. He seems to step up and rally the team when the going gets tough. He's definately captain material and he's always looking for the forward pass.

Player of the season nominee definately. Fantastic player.

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I hope Gibbo's here for many years to come. Future captain imo.

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Kaiser-like imperious performance from Gibbo. How much would he be worth if you could guarantee his fitness? Daft money I think.

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He is in my opinion better player than Arteta was for us his last 2 season in our club. Another Moyes absolute bargain buy.

Dickerty

Happyman42 wrote: »

Who is the German who hasn't the confidence in his team mates ability to deal with McGeady and leaves Hoolihan free for the cross?

http://gfycat.com/VelvetyAlienatedCaribou

Looks like Gotze? He was puffing a lot earlier than that...

Dickerty

Billy86 wrote: »

Funny that, he started almost every game he was fit for from the time he joined them until his injury last year and in that time they won 52% of games he started vs 25% of those he didn't or was injured for. oh, and Everton fans also disagree with you...

I cannot take that seriously when they are saying he's a better CM that Arteta or McCarthy. He doesn't have the distribution or game management of either of them. He made his name on a hammer of a shot, but he's never been a top level CM all in all...

Demosthenese

Dickerty wrote: »

I cannot take that seriously when they are saying he's a better CM that Arteta or McCarthy. He doesn't have the distribution or game management of either of them. He made his name on a hammer of a shot, but he's never been a top level CM all in all...

Game management of McCarthy ... getting onto EA Sports now to include that in their next version, Speed 9, Shot 8, Game Management 5, lol. ... i'd say his distribution is on a par with McCarthy - and who knows if the guy can stay fit what part he could play for Everton this season.

Nerdlingr

Dickerty wrote: »

Looks like Gotze? He was puffing a lot earlier than that...

Love hendrick's run off the back of Podolski as well. Soon as Hoolahan picks up the ball he's off. Did brilliantly for the goal, watching it drop over his shoulder and having to re-adjust his body.

Billy86

GBXI wrote: »

Gibson might have scored 10 goals in 58 games for Utd over 3 years in FIFA or ProEvo but he certainly hasn't done that in real life! Everton are noticeable better than Stoke but Gibson has never been, and in my opinion, is unlikely to ever be a regular starter for them. He certainly was never a key player. Compared to Whelan's career he has done very little.

Um, sorry? Please check your info in future.

In 08/09 he had 9 starts and 5 sub appearances for Man Utd scoring 3 goals. http://www.espnfc.com/player/71653/darron-gibson?season=2008

In 09/10 he had 12 starts and 12 subs appearances for Man Utd, scoring 5. http://www.espnfc.com/player/71653/darron-gibson?season=2009

In 10/11 he had 14 starts and 6 sub appearances for Man Utd, scoring 2. http://www.espnfc.com/player/71653/darron-gibson?season=2010

9 + 12 + 14 = 35 starts.
5 + 12 + 6 = 23 sub appearances.
35 + 23 = 58 games.
3 + 5 + 2 = 10 goals.

He also had 8 assists in those 58 games.

Now I'm a Man United fan and getting into his mid 20s he did need to move on to get more regular playing time because he was never going to be a regular starter at Man United, but he certainly was an ok squad player. And he certainly did score 10 goals and have 8 assists in 58 games.

He fell out of favour the following year with just 1 league start (where he got another and 1 more in the league cup before being sold to Everton.

He was bought likely as cover initially in January 2011, but started 15 of 22 games (11 league, 4 fa cup) for the remainder of that season despite Rodwell, Phil Neville, Arteta and Fellaini also being in the squad...
http://www.espnfc.com/player/71653/darron-gibson?season=2011

Then despite being injured for four months/14 league games in 2012/13, and of the other 24 he started 22 and came on as a sub in one. He was fit for 3 FA cup games,starting 2 and coming off the bench in another - http://www.espnfc.com/player/71653/darron-gibson?season=2012

I would consider starting 24 of 27 games and coming off the bench in 2 of the others to be starting regularly, but maybe I'm just crazy like that. As for him not be no a key player before his injury, scroll up a few posts and take that up with Everton fans.

Billy86

Dickerty wrote: »

I cannot take that seriously when they are saying he's a better CM that Arteta or McCarthy. He doesn't have the distribution or game management of either of them. He made his name on a hammer of a shot, but he's never been a top level CM all in all...

They watch him week in, week out (or did before the injury). Not saying they are necessarily correct or not on those counts, but the fact is he definitely was a key player for Everton in 2012/13, it's not even a half way arguable debate. He also doesn't decent on his shooting and hasn't really done since he joined them, where he typically plays close to the base of their midfield.

keeponhurling

Some very negative reactions here, and of course RTE as usual.

I was in the stadium in Germany, and every Irish fan I spoke to was happy with the line up, performance and result, and there was a great atmosphere.
It was a great night, so just enjoy it.

There was even somebody in this thread saying that David Forde didn't play well !!

Not sure how much it came across on TV, but James McClean was really magnificent, there was a buzz around the stadium every tine he got the ball.
Rudiger had an awful time of it.

Nerdlingr

GBXI wrote: »

I still consider it to be 'nothing' compared to Whelan who has fully established himself as a PL player. Gibson happened to be at UTD when they won trophies but he had minimal effect on those wins and never established himself as a regular starter there.

Gibson made his senior Irish debut in 2007 and has since received 23 more caps. In 2008 Whelan made his debut and has since received 60 more caps. Point being, Whelan gets a lot of abuse but I think the people who say he's useless and can't understand why he makes the team at all show themselves up for their lack of football knowledge and understanding.

ha ha :D and I suppose the people who say the opposite should be held up as analytical fooballing genisus!!!

GBXI

Billy86 wrote: »

Um, sorry? Please check your info in future.

In 08/09 he had 9 starts and 5 sub appearances for Man Utd scoring 3 goals. http://www.espnfc.com/player/71653/darron-gibson?season=2008

In 09/10 he had 12 starts and 12 subs appearances for Man Utd, scoring 5. http://www.espnfc.com/player/71653/darron-gibson?season=2009

In 10/11 he had 14 starts and 6 sub appearances for Man Utd, scoring 2. http://www.espnfc.com/player/71653/darron-gibson?season=2010

9 + 12 + 14 = 35 starts.
5 + 12 + 6 = 23 sub appearances.
35 + 23 = 58 games.
3 + 5 + 2 = 10 goals.

He also had 8 assists in those 58 games.

Now I'm a Man United fan and getting into his mid 20s he did need to move on to get more regular playing time because he was never going to be a regular starter at Man United, but he certainly was an ok squad player. And he certainly did score 10 goals and have 8 assists in 58 games.

He fell out of favour the following year with just 1 league start (where he got another and 1 more in the league cup before being sold to Everton.

He was bought likely as cover initially in January 2011, but started 15 of 22 games (11 league, 4 fa cup) for the remainder of that season despite Rodwell, Phil Neville, Arteta and Fellaini also being in the squad...
http://www.espnfc.com/player/71653/darron-gibson?season=2011

Then despite being injured for four months/14 league games in 2012/13, and of the other 24 he started 22 and came on as a sub in one. He was fit for 3 FA cup games,starting 2 and coming off the bench in another - http://www.espnfc.com/player/71653/darron-gibson?season=2012

I would consider starting 24 of 27 games and coming off the bench in 2 of the others to be starting regularly, but maybe I'm just crazy like that. As for him not be no a key player before his injury, scroll up a few posts and take that up with Everton fans.

I was counting league goals rather than all comps but I can see he scored 10.

Fair enough he was fairly regular in 2012/2013 but he hasn't been since (I understand that he spent a whole year injured) but at 27 years old, one good season at Everton isn't enough for me to consider him having had a better career so far than Whelan.

Those Everton "quotes" are laughable, not sure are you being serious there. A couple of them even have him as better than McCarthy and Arteta!! As I said laughable.

GBXI

Nerdlingr wrote: »

ha ha :D and I suppose the people who say the opposite should be held up as analytical fooballing genisus!!!

No but a bit of balance and reason is important. I mean Staunton, Trap and O'Neill have all regularly picked Whelan in their teams, he's clearly one of the best Irish defensive centre mid-fielders. He is a regular in an established PM team as well. Which is more than nearly all other available Irish centre-mids can say.

Backstreet Moyes

GBXI wrote: »

I was counting league goals rather than all comps but I can see he scored 10.

Fair enough he was fairly regular in 2012/2013 but he hasn't been since (I understand that he spent a whole year injured) but at 27 years old, one good season at Everton isn't enough for me to consider him having had a better career so far than Whelan.

Those Everton "quotes" are laughable, not sure are you being serious there. A couple of them even have him as better than McCarthy and Arteta!! As I said laughable.

Gibson spent too long at United and it was a big reason Trap refused to play him because he was not playing regularly.

Then he moved to Everton where he a regular until he got injured.

The fact Whelan has played more games because he has played with weaker sides says nothing. Whelan is a good grafter but Gibson is a better midfielder.

Trap loved his grafters and disliked people with ability going forward. Just look how long Coleman and McCarthy waited to be starters despite being two of our best players.

Nerdlingr

GBXI wrote: »

No but a bit of balance and reason is important. I mean Staunton, Trap and O'Neill have all regularly picked Whelan in their teams, he's clearly one of the best Irish defensive centre mid-fielders. He is a regular in an established PM team as well. Which is more than nearly all other available Irish centre-mids can say.

He never played under Staunton.

CSF

Billy86 wrote: »

Funny that, he started almost every game he was fit for from the time he joined them until his injury last year and in that time they won 52% of games he started vs 25% of those he didn't or was injured for. oh, and Everton fans also disagree with you...

http://www.grandoldteam.com/forum/threads/darron-gibson.47274/page-12

Quoting posts from an internet forum is ridiculous. You're well aware that if I wanted I could find just as many criticising him.

As for posting those stats, they don't always mean anything. A player being present during good form, and absent for bad form can be purely coincidental/fixture dependant, Gibson isn't and has never been a particularly good player.

AllGunsBlazing

Nerdlingr wrote: »

Love hendrick's run off the back of Podolski as well. Soon as Hoolahan picks up the ball he's off. Did brilliantly for the goal, watching it drop over his shoulder and having to re-adjust his body.

A very bright footballer. Rotten luck with injuries thus far but if he gets a decent season under his belt then I think he'll be playing in the Premiere League in the near future.

Nerdlingr

AllGunsBlazing wrote: »

A very bright footballer. Rotten luck with injuries thus far but if he gets a decent season under his belt then I think he'll be playing in the Premiere League in the near future.

Yep, he's impressed me with what I've seen of him so far...Only 22 as well so loads of time for him to get even better.

Easy Rod

keeponhurling wrote: »

Some very negative reactions here, and of course RTE as usual.

I was in the stadium in Germany, and every Irish fan I spoke to was happy with the line up, performance and result, and there was a great atmosphere.
It was a great night, so just enjoy it.

There was even somebody in this thread saying that David Forde didn't play well !!

Not sure how much it came across on TV, but James McClean was really magnificent, there was a buzz around the stadium every tine he got the ball.
Rudiger had an awful time of it.

I don't think he played particularly well. The save at Gotze's feet was very good but other than that you'd expect any International keeper (apart from the Gilbraltar two) to make the saves. In fact I think he got slightly lucky tipping over Gotze's (Or was it Kroos?) long range effort by only going with one hand and only barely directing it over the bar.

He could have cost us when he picked up Whelan's backpass, no doubt in my mind Whelan was passing it back to him. Then there was the error when he tried to control the ball with his feet instead of a) just picking it up or b) simply booting it into touch.

Not trying to be negative, I just don't think it was a motm performance by any stretch. Meyler was motm for me.

Backstreet Moyes

Easy Rod wrote: »

I don't think he played particularly well. The save at Gotze's feet was very good but other than that you'd expect any International keeper (apart from the Gilbraltar two) to make the saves. In fact I think he got slightly lucky tipping over Gotze's (Or was it Kroos?) long range effort by only going with one hand and only barely directing it over the bar.

He could have cost us when he picked up Whelan's backpass, no doubt in my mind Whelan was passing it back to him. Then there was the error when he tried to control the ball with his feet instead of a) just picking it up or b) simply booting it into touch.

Not trying to be negative, I just don't think it was a motm performance by any stretch. Meyler was motm for me.

Forde done everything asked of him last night. To say he didn't play well is just bizzare he dealt with everything besides a very good goal.

Your not being negative your just not making sense.

FutureGuy

Nuts102 wrote: »

Forde done everything asked of him last night. To say he didn't play well is just bizzare he dealt with everything besides a very good goal.

Your not being negative your just not making sense.

We've conceded two goals so far. I don't think there is a goalkeeper in the world who would have saved them.

Forde was great in goal. I'm stunned people are arguing against that.

edgecutter

Soups123 wrote: »

I know its fashionable to hate Whelan and to make him the biggest association to the Trap era and approach, but I disagree.

Someone has to earn the right to push him out. Gibson and Jeff H played there against Gibralta and were poor enough, both did better off the bench against German, so possibly.

McCarthy is a banker. Quinn is a very good option but for me you only want or need him for the home/away games that are tough anything else it needs to be some one else.

Whelan is not a guaranteed starter but he is guarenteed to be in the mix. He gets unfair flack from some fans yet Irish Managers and PL club managers seem happy to back and play him no problem. Strang that considering most fans know alot more then them..............

Let's call a spade a spade. Whelan was awful. Time and time again he looked to pass backwards and never ever tried to take pressure off the team.

Billy86

GBXI wrote: »

I was counting league goals rather than all comps but I can see he scored 10.

Fair enough he was fairly regular in 2012/2013 but he hasn't been since (I understand that he spent a whole year injured) but at 27 years old, one good season at Everton isn't enough for me to consider him having had a better career so far than Whelan.

Those Everton "quotes" are laughable, not sure are you being serious there. A couple of them even have him as better than McCarthy and Arteta!! As I said laughable.

24 starts and 2 sub appearances of 27 games is not "fairly regular", it is nailed on, unquestioned first team starter. They year before that he was also starting fairly regularly for them, in 15 of 22 games.

He was injured for all but 3 games of 2013/14, of which he started 2. He only returned 32 days ago after an 11 month layoff so his big challenge at this point is getting into the first team - in that time he has 2 starts, 2 subs appearances, and has been an unused sub 3 times. There's a good chance they are easing him back in after so long off, but he still has a challenge on his hands there. But claiming he wasn't a regular for them because when he was injured is kind of weak - no injured player in the history of any sport has ever played regularly, for obvious reasons.

The only things that Whelan has on Gibson are running around more and "getting stuck in" (both of which Gibson offsets a good deal by having better positioning and discipline), as well as match fitness at this exact point in time. Gibson is better at just about everything else. I don't hate Whelan or anything, he can serve a purpose in some games, but he is simply not as good a player as Gibson.

It is also a weak argument to say that Whelan has had a better career than Gibson to this point - whereas Gibson was able to get into the Man Utd squad for 3 years, at the same age Whelan was in the Championship having been let go by a recently promoted Man City team without getting a single game there. While Gibson was a nailed on starter at Everton by 25, Whelan at that age was not guaranteed a start at Stoke and was only in his second year in the Premiership.

You said he was not a key player at Everton. Those posts from Everton fans who watch them week in, week out completely contradict what you were trying to claim, regardless of if he is indeed better than McCarthy or Arteta or not. But hey, if you want to claim to watch Everton play more than their own fans, to know more about their own team and players than they do, and to claim that starting 24 of 27 games (coming off the bench in two of the other three) is "semi regular" starting, be my guest.

Billy86

CSF wrote: »

Quoting posts from an internet forum is ridiculous. You're well aware that if I wanted I could find just as many criticising him.

As for posting those stats, they don't always mean anything. A player being present during good form, and absent for bad form can be purely coincidental/fixture dependant, Gibson isn't and has never been a particularly good player.

For a team like Ireland he has been and is a very good player.

Like I said, if you want to claim to know more about Everton than their own fans, and their manager at the time who played him in almost every game, nearly always starting, then feel free. But it reeks of an agenda.

LostBoy101

Ireland fans showing ze Germans how it's done.

keith16

LostBoy101 wrote: »

Ireland fans showing ze Germans how it's done.

I hate the whole "ze Germans" thing.

Even so, the Germans are amazing fans in their own right.

gosplan

edgecutter wrote: »

Let's call a spade a spade. Whelan was awful. Time and time again he looked to pass backwards and never ever tried to take pressure off the team.

It's funny the way people take different things from games.

I felt that for the first while when we looked shaky, and pretty much for the whole first half, he was our best and most important player.

Demosthenese

keeponhurling wrote: »

Some very negative reactions here, and of course RTE as usual.

I was in the stadium in Germany, and every Irish fan I spoke to was happy with the line up, performance and result, and there was a great atmosphere.
It was a great night, so just enjoy it.

There was even somebody in this thread saying that David Forde didn't play well !!

Not sure how much it came across on TV, but James McClean was really magnificent, there was a buzz around the stadium every tine he got the ball.
Rudiger had an awful time of it.

I genuinely think that people are delighted with the result .... but the performance was really really difficult to watch at times more or less from minute 1 up until they scored pretty much. Maybe it was the different surroundings that we watched the game in that added to your enjoyment of the game?

The biggest thing for me was the sheer amount of times we passed back to Forde in order to hoof it forward ... and lets be honest his distribution is pretty poor. Surely the lads at the back in particular could pick out a slightly better "long ball" from 30-40 yards out than Forde can from 10-15 yards out? We were just too nervous to take the game on at times. I found this very frustrating how many times we gave the ball away when we finally won it back - only to see the same pattern of deep defence set in.

Credit to the lads for holding out that long as it is physically and mentally draining and usually you do not get your rewards from a game like that.

That said ... from the lineups - i wonder what exactly Shane Long has done to deserve being left out completely over the last 2 games and why MON decides to give Robbie a starting role in a game when he knows all he is going to do for 60 mins is chase shadows all over the field? I'd like to see Long play the first 60 and then if we need a goal send on Robbie for the last 20-30 mins when they are a little more tired. Same goes for Walters really. Played ok but not as energetic and agile as Long - probably same chance or either scoring.

Obviously the Wes Hoolahan brigade on RTE want him in whereas MON prefers McGeady so that one goes down to coaches choice.

I just think that we'd all like Ireland to TRY to play even just a little bit when we have the ball. We'll have to against Scotland and we actually did when we lost the goal. Its a mentality thing. We played within ourselves while 0-0 then above ourselves when 1-0 down.

Backstreet Moyes

gosplan wrote: »

It's funny the way people take different things from games.

I felt that for the first while when we looked shaky, and pretty much for the whole first half, he was our best and most important player.

You can;t be serious he offered nothing. Instead of pushing forward he turned back every time putting pressure on the back four. Gibson coming on moving forward took pressure off the team.

Pro. F

Personally I'm more interested in Meyler and McCarthy than any of the other CMs at the moment, but they all have their strengths and weaknesses. You could make an argument for any of them based on what you think the team needs, but anybody holding up number of games played for club, or number of caps given by Stan/Trap/O'Neill is kidding themselves. If you can't judge a player from watching them with your own eyes then you are just a bit shît at judging players.

edit: It seems like the Whelan fans who feel the need to start this all the time.

gosplan

Nuts102 wrote: »

You can;t be serious he offered nothing. Instead of pushing forward he turned back every time putting pressure on the back four. Gibson coming on moving forward took pressure off the team.

Going forward you mean.

He played a massive part in keeping the Germans to shots from distance and set pieces.

keith16

keith16 wrote: »

I fcuking love you all

I was drunk last night.

I stand by my comment.

magma69

Ronnie Whelan is Captain Hindsight aswell. Remember the defence standing off Kroos while he hit a shot that ballooned over and he said 'The Germans can do that all day' then for the goal he's whinging that they didn't close him down. These pundits are great at pointing out the mistakes after they have been capitalized on.

Easy Rod

Nuts102 wrote: »

Forde done everything asked of him last night. To say he didn't play well is just bizzare he dealt with everything besides a very good goal.

Your not being negative your just not making sense.

Which of my points don't make sense? I just don't think he played overly well.

The_Kew_Tour

Looking at those videos makes me which I was there.

Well done to the Ireland fans who even when down you could still hear singing.

syngindub

holy ****, cant wait for the scotland game

The_Kew_Tour

Celtic Park will hopefully suit us too.

Much better for fans going to pubs etc too.