[Everything water charges here] Right To Water Protest 2pm Nov 1st @ Eyre Sq

tayto lover

Fine Gael got just over 8% in Dublin SW. :pac:
Message getting through yet?

Phoebas

tayto lover wrote: »

Fine Gael got just over 8% in Dublin SW. :pac:
Message getting through yet?

A poor - but not unexpected - showing.
Mind you, Cáit Keane actually increased her share of the vote since she ran in the GE.

renegademaster

Deleted User wrote: »

Any less than 100,000 is a failure.

hfallada wrote: »

So according to the Gardai estimates 0.67% of the population turned out today and I would trust the Gardai figures, as they used to estimating crowds. I cant understand why these people decided to disrupt Dublin today, to protest over something they cant change. The budget for 2015 is finalised and today even with 450,000 people could not change the water charges for next year

the garda made a statement that they never release crowd figures so where are you getting your info from.

all i'll say is i seen 150,000 people protest to force cowen to call general elections back in nov 2010 and todays crowd absolutely wiped the floor with that attendence without a shadow of doubt, we hadn't even begun moving past the corner of parnell st by the garden of rememberence when the crowd had already reached the dail, that's 1.9km of people marching against the water charges, they see us now!!

pleasant Co.

I was in Dublin yesterday, not protesting mind (regardless of what my views may be I had to work) but there certainly were a lot of people. I had to cross through the moving protest at one spot and half an hour later had to cross back at the same spot and the people were still flowing. I don't have figures, but there was a huge turnout.

There were more there than I thought would show up.

I filled out the form online last week.

renegademaster

Deleted User wrote: »

There were more there than I thought would show up.

I filled out the form online last week.

it was impossible due to past experiences with resistence movements here in Ireland to say this one was going to be the success it's turned out to be, so you're not alone in filling out the forms but i'm even more convinced now that you're in a minority, which is fine cos even if we weren't marching IW can't take up to half the country or more to court.

we are winning and it's never too late to join the protests, even those who've filled out the forms, together we can make 100% sure denis o brien never makes a cent from this charade!

gordongekko

renegademaster wrote: »

it was impossible due to past experiences with resistence movements here in Ireland to say this one was going to be the success it's turned out to be, so you're not alone in filling out the forms but i'm even more convinced now that you're in a minority, which is fine cos even if we weren't marching IW can't take up to half the country or more to court.

we are winning and it's never too late to join the protests, even those who've filled out the forms, together we can make 100% sure denis o brien never makes a cent from this charade!

What have you against Dennis o Brien?

Phoebas

gordongekko wrote: »

What have you against Dennis o Brien?

Its the way he strokes his cat.

renegademaster

gordongekko wrote: »

What have you against Dennis o Brien?

off the top of my head, his esat digiphone golden egg that he bought for pocket change and flipped for huge profit a year or 3 later, his long long list of media investments, getting 300m worth of debt wrote off here by irish banks that we had to bail out and our childrens children will be paying for, and then a month or 2 later he gets handed 180m from the household charge coffers so he can flip the company asap for another massive windfall exactly like esat...

ratracer

Fair play to the demonstrators yesterday. I'm pleasantly surprised by the turn out and moreso I'm glad it went off peacefully.

I still think there is an awful lot of scumbags at the other protests who are only intent on creating havoc with the meter installers and I don't think that can be condoned. If people don't want to pay, fair play to them, no one has a right to stop someone else doing an honest days work.

tayto lover

ratracer wrote: »

Fair play to the demonstrators yesterday. I'm pleasantly surprised by the turn out and moreso I'm glad it went off peacefully.

I still think there is an awful lot of scumbags at the other protests who are only intent on creating havoc with the meter installers and I don't think that can be condoned. If people don't want to pay, fair play to them, no one has a right to stop someone else doing an honest days work.

Totally agree.
Let them put the metres in.
Just don't pay if you want to protest.
Thugs could ruin the protests and prevent genuine protesters from joining up.

gordongekko

renegademaster wrote: »

off the top of my head, his esat digiphone golden egg that he bought for pocket change and flipped for huge profit a year or 3 later, his long long list of media investments, getting 300m worth of debt wrote off here by irish banks that we had to bail out and our childrens children will be paying for, and then a month or 2 later he gets handed 180m from the household charge coffers so he can flip the company asap for another massive windfall exactly like esat...

esat digiphone golden egg that he bought for pocket change and flipped for huge profit a year or 3 later- that's a lie

his long long list of media investments, - he bought and paid for these assetsetting 300m worth of debt wrote off here by irish banks that we had to bail out and our childrens children will be paying for, - another lie as far as I know he has not had and debt written off.

and then a month or 2 later he gets handed 180m from the household charge coffers so he can flip the company asap for another massive windfall exactly like esat..- another lie.

renegademaster

ratracer wrote: »

Fair play to the demonstrators yesterday. I'm pleasantly surprised by the turn out and moreso I'm glad it went off peacefully.

I still think there is an awful lot of scumbags at the other protests who are only intent on creating havoc with the meter installers and I don't think that can be condoned. If people don't want to pay, fair play to them, no one has a right to stop someone else doing an honest days work.

show me where the honest days work is being carried out? all i see are people subcontracted to install the IW meters from money that was stolen form the houshold charge tax and that was stolen from the Irish who didn't have it to give int he first place. i agree there has been some thugish behaviour going on and yes it is hard to condone it at times, but then there was plenty of examples of garda cracking down on the peaceful protestors recently too, end of the day it has been a massive overall success, all the protesting from Cork to Dublin and across the rest of the country, the people are standing are finally united and standing up for once

tayto lover wrote: »

Totally agree.
Let them put the metres in.
Just don't pay if you want to protest.
Thugs could ruin the protests and prevent genuine protesters from joining up.

don't let any group take over so, if the majority of people come out and support the protests then the minority groups you speak of are outnumbered by 100/1.

gordongekko wrote: »

esat digiphone golden egg that he bought for pocket change and flipped for huge profit a year or 3 later- that's a lie

He moved from Ireland to Portugal in 1999, shortly before receiving a 285 million euro (then $288 million) windfall from selling Esat Telecom Group Plc,


Since 2005, O’Brien has been a resident of Malta, saying it’s easier for him to run Digicel from his base there. Living on the Mediterranean island also allows him to legally lighten his Irish tax burden.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-11-13/ireland-s-would-be-carlos-slim-sells-mobiles-to-masses.html

his long long list of media investments, - he bought and paid for these assetsetting 300m worth of debt wrote off here by irish banks that we had to bail out and our childrens children will be paying for, - another lie as far as I know he has not had and debt written off.

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/sectors/banks-write-off-over-300m-in-three-deals-with-denis-o-brien-1.1830533

The purchase of three major Irish businesses over the past two years by the billionaire businessman Denis O’Brien involved total bank write-offs of more than €300 million.
The deals saw the businessman invest €230 million to acquire the Siteserv Group, the Topaz Group and the Beacon Private Hospital.
The Siteserv deal saw the State-owned Irish Bank Resolution Corporation, which is now in liquidation, write off €110 million of the €150 million it was owed. Mr O’Brien’s move to become the major shareholder in the Topaz Group earlier this year involved the IBRC writing off slightly more than half of the €304 million it was owed.
Beacon Hospital

Last month, Mr O’Brien bought debt of approximately €100 million due to Ulster Bank for a reported €35 million in a deal that gave him control of the Beacon Hospital in Sandyford, Co Dublin.
Mr O’Brien, who has a 29.9 per cent stake, is the biggest shareholder in the Independent News & Media. In April last year the group did a deal with its eight banks, which include AIB and Bank of Ireland, where the banks wrote off €138 million of an overall debt of €422 million, in exchange for a shareholding in the group worth approximately €10 million.
The Topaz Group was purchased by Mr O’Brien using Kendrick Investments Ltd, an Isle of Man company incorporated in July of last year. Siteserv was bought using another Isle of Man company, Millington Ltd, incorporated in December 2011 to buy the Irish services group.
In March this year Kendrick entered into a mortgage arrangement with the Bank of Ireland, with the Topaz business among the mortgaged assets, according to its filings in the Isle of Man. No charge has been registered against Millington.
Mr O’Brien is not tax-resident in Ireland and his Digicel group is headquartered in Bermuda. The Isle of Man does not impose corporation tax on most companies and does not have capital gains tax.


and then a month or 2 later he gets handed 180m from the household charge coffers so he can flip the company asap for another massive windfall exactly like esat..- another lie.

you are right, sorry, it was actually 490m from the household charge was diverted to IW

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/490m-meant-for-local-services-diverted-to-irish-water-255608.html

Finance Minister Michael Noonan has admitted that €490m meant for local services is to be diverted into Irish Water.
Mr Noonan said a “subvention” was being made from the local government fund to go to the water metering company.
He said Revenue collects the money and the total property tax returns are then transferred to the Local Government Fund for services.

gordongekko

Once again you are misrepresenting the truth to try and fit your argument

esat digiphone golden egg that he bought for pocket change and flipped for huge profit a year or 3 later- that's a lie

He moved from Ireland to Portugal in 1999, shortly before receiving a 285 million euro (then $288 million) windfall from selling Esat Telecom Group Plc,

He tried to hold onto esat however they major shareholders wanted to sell and outvoted him.



Since 2005, O’Brien has been a resident of Malta, saying it’s easier for him to run Digicel from his base there. Living on the Mediterranean island also allows him to legally lighten his Irish tax burden.


So he's a resident of Malta . That's hardly a crime.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-1...to-masses.html

his long long list of media investments, - he bought and paid for these assetsetting 300m worth of debt wrote off here by irish banks that we had to bail out and our childrens children will be paying for, - another lie as far as I know he has not had and debt written off.

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/s...rien-1.1830533

The purchase of three major Irish businesses over the past two years by the billionaire businessman Denis O’Brien involved total bank write-offs of more than €300 million.
The deals saw the businessman invest €230 million to acquire the Siteserv Group, the Topaz Group and the Beacon Private Hospital.
The Siteserv deal saw the State-owned Irish Bank Resolution Corporation, which is now in liquidation, write off €110 million of the €150 million it was owed. Mr O’Brien’s move to become the major shareholder in the Topaz Group earlier this year involved the IBRC writing off slightly more than half of the €304 million it was owed.
Beacon Hospital

Last month, Mr O’Brien bought debt of approximately €100 million due to Ulster Bank for a reported €35 million in a deal that gave him control of the Beacon Hospital in Sandyford, Co Dublin.
Mr O’Brien, who has a 29.9 per cent stake, is the biggest shareholder in the Independent News & Media. In April last year the group did a deal with its eight banks, which include AIB and Bank of Ireland, where the banks wrote off €138 million of an overall debt of €422 million, in exchange for a shareholding in the group worth approximately €10 million.
The Topaz Group was purchased by Mr O’Brien using Kendrick Investments Ltd, an Isle of Man company incorporated in July of last year. Siteserv was bought using another Isle of Man company, Millington Ltd, incorporated in December 2011 to buy the Irish services group.
In March this year Kendrick entered into a mortgage arrangement with the Bank of Ireland, with the Topaz business among the mortgaged assets, according to its filings in the Isle of Man. No charge has been registered against Millington.
Mr O’Brien is not tax-resident in Ireland and his Digicel group is headquartered in Bermuda. The Isle of Man does not impose corporation tax on most companies and does not have capital gains tax.


What you of course ignore is that it's the previous investors that have had their debt written off not dob. What you fail to notice is that dob has spent his own money investing in these companies which is the opposite of what you claim.

and then a month or 2 later he gets handed 180m from the household charge coffers so he can flip the company asap for another massive windfall exactly like esat..- another lie.

you are right, sorry, it was actually 490m from the household charge was diverted to IW

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland...er-255608.html

Finance Minister Michael Noonan has admitted that €490m meant for local services is to be diverted into Irish Water.
Mr Noonan said a “subvention” was being made from the local government fund to go to the water metering company.
He said Revenue collects the money and the total property tax returns are then transferred to the Local Government Fund for services.

Dob is not now or as far as I know never has been a board member of iw so I'm not sure how the 490 million is even relevant to your weird dislike for the man.

renegademaster

gordongekko wrote: »

Once again you are misrepresenting the truth to try and fit your argument

esat digiphone golden egg that he bought for pocket change and flipped for huge profit a year or 3 later- that's a lie

He moved from Ireland to Portugal in 1999, shortly before receiving a 285 million euro (then $288 million) windfall from selling Esat Telecom Group Plc,

He tried to hold onto esat however they major shareholders wanted to sell and outvoted him.



Since 2005, O’Brien has been a resident of Malta, saying it’s easier for him to run Digicel from his base there. Living on the Mediterranean island also allows him to legally lighten his Irish tax burden.


So he's a resident of Malta . That's hardly a crime.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-1...to-masses.html

his long long list of media investments, - he bought and paid for these assetsetting 300m worth of debt wrote off here by irish banks that we had to bail out and our childrens children will be paying for, - another lie as far as I know he has not had and debt written off.

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/s...rien-1.1830533

The purchase of three major Irish businesses over the past two years by the billionaire businessman Denis O’Brien involved total bank write-offs of more than €300 million.
The deals saw the businessman invest €230 million to acquire the Siteserv Group, the Topaz Group and the Beacon Private Hospital.
The Siteserv deal saw the State-owned Irish Bank Resolution Corporation, which is now in liquidation, write off €110 million of the €150 million it was owed. Mr O’Brien’s move to become the major shareholder in the Topaz Group earlier this year involved the IBRC writing off slightly more than half of the €304 million it was owed.
Beacon Hospital

Last month, Mr O’Brien bought debt of approximately €100 million due to Ulster Bank for a reported €35 million in a deal that gave him control of the Beacon Hospital in Sandyford, Co Dublin.
Mr O’Brien, who has a 29.9 per cent stake, is the biggest shareholder in the Independent News & Media. In April last year the group did a deal with its eight banks, which include AIB and Bank of Ireland, where the banks wrote off €138 million of an overall debt of €422 million, in exchange for a shareholding in the group worth approximately €10 million.
The Topaz Group was purchased by Mr O’Brien using Kendrick Investments Ltd, an Isle of Man company incorporated in July of last year. Siteserv was bought using another Isle of Man company, Millington Ltd, incorporated in December 2011 to buy the Irish services group.
In March this year Kendrick entered into a mortgage arrangement with the Bank of Ireland, with the Topaz business among the mortgaged assets, according to its filings in the Isle of Man. No charge has been registered against Millington.
Mr O’Brien is not tax-resident in Ireland and his Digicel group is headquartered in Bermuda. The Isle of Man does not impose corporation tax on most companies and does not have capital gains tax.


What you of course ignore is that it's the previous investors that have had their debt written off not dob. What you fail to notice is that dob has spent his own money investing in these companies which is the opposite of what you claim.

and then a month or 2 later he gets handed 180m from the household charge coffers so he can flip the company asap for another massive windfall exactly like esat..- another lie.

you are right, sorry, it was actually 490m from the household charge was diverted to IW

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland...er-255608.html

Finance Minister Michael Noonan has admitted that €490m meant for local services is to be diverted into Irish Water.
Mr Noonan said a “subvention” was being made from the local government fund to go to the water metering company.
He said Revenue collects the money and the total property tax returns are then transferred to the Local Government Fund for services.

Dob is not now or as far as I know never has been a board member of iw so I'm not sure how the 490 million is even relevant to your weird dislike for the man.

have you shares in IW or related to denis?

gordongekko

renegademaster wrote: »

have you shares in IW or related to denis?

Not related to dob but as a taxpayer I do have shares in iw just like yourself and every other Irish person.

MadYaker

renegademaster wrote: »

have you shares in IW or related to denis?

This is a typical post of you and many others of similar opinions on this website, you can't refute any of his points so instead of addressing them you simply make a snide accusation in a feeble attempt to accuse him of having some vested interest that is influencing his point of view. It makes you look stupid and lazy, and I'm not saying you are.

This, along with the age old argument "we already pay for water! why should we pay twice?" are used again and again despite the latter being completely false for obvious reasons which have been explained 100 times. I honestly can't be arsed anymore.

So how was the protest? Seemed like there was a sh!tload of people with not much trouble anyway so thats good. Another one organised for november 1st I think? Could be even bigger, not that it will make a difference.

renegademaster

MadYaker wrote: »

This is a typical post of you and many others of similar opinions on this website, you can't refute any of his points so instead of addressing them you simply make a snide accusation in a feeble attempt to accuse him of having some vested interest that is influencing his point of view. It makes you look stupid and lazy, and I'm not saying you are.

cheers, i'm very tired today

This, along with the age old argument "we already pay for water! why should we pay twice?" are used again and again despite the latter being completely false for obvious reasons which have been explained 100 times. I honestly can't be arsed anymore.

So how was the protest? Seemed like there was a sh!tload of people with not much trouble anyway so thats good. Another one organised for november 1st I think? Could be even bigger, not that it will make a difference.

the protest was great, best attendence in over a long time and the promo for nov 1st has begun today

tayto lover

Am I the only one detecting a very worried FG party today especially their posters on here?

MadYaker

Id be worried if I were them. Looks like this is becoming more of an issue than they originally thought it would, especially with the massive protest vote in bye elections in Dublin. It's a while until the general election though, 18 months I think? Everyone said the lpt would sink the government but it didn't. Hard to know whether this will or not yet, it's too early to say with certainty what effect it will have on the general election. I think it might prompt the government attempt to essentially bride the electorate with a giveaway budget which would be unwise in the long term, but then again most politicians can't see far past the end of their noses.

Bobeagleburger

Fine Gael will need to go in with FF to get into government next time.

renegademaster

MadYaker wrote: »

Id be worried if I were them. Looks like this is becoming more of an issue than they originally thought it would, especially with the massive protest vote in bye elections in Dublin. It's a while until the general election though, 18 months I think? Everyone said the lpt would sink the government but it didn't. Hard to know whether this will or not yet, it's too early to say with certainty what effect it will have on the general election. I think it might prompt the government attempt to essentially bride the electorate with a giveaway budget which would be unwise in the long term, but then again most politicians can't see far past the end of their noses.

they think they're going to get to apr 2016 but i'd like to knwo the ods of the government falling before then, why should we let them see out a full term?

rarnes1 wrote: »

Fine Gael will need to go in with FF to get into government next time.

this is not going to happen, nobody's going to know who fianna fail, fine gael, labour or the greens are in the next election, mark my words

Bobeagleburger

renegademaster wrote: »

they think they're going to get to apr 2016 but i'd like to knwo the ods of the government falling before then, why should we let them see out a full term?



this is not going to happen, nobody's going to know who fianna fail, fine gael, labour or the greens are in the next election, mark my words

They'll hardly all be in opposition though.

FG could jump into bed with Independents. Hopefully not as having Independents in a government is a disaster

WallyGUFC

renegademaster wrote: »

they think they're going to get to apr 2016 but i'd like to knwo the ods of the government falling before then, why should we let them see out a full term?



this is not going to happen, nobody's going to know who fianna fail, fine gael, labour or the greens are in the next election, mark my words

This is nonsense. Do you really think SF/Independents/a new party will have garnered enough support to oust FG in 18 months? I highly, highly doubt it.
I reckon FG will still be the majority party. They've made a good fist of getting us out of the mess FF got us into.

renegademaster

WallyGUFC wrote: »

This is nonsense. Do you really think SF/Independents/a new party will have garnered enough support to oust FG in 18 months? I highly, highly doubt it.
I reckon FG will still be the majority party. They've made a good fist of getting us out of the mess FF got us into.

even though all the evidence before us suggest otherwise, but sure we won't let somethign like that get in the way. i'm not saying who's going to be in givernment, i wouldn't try to call that one, but i will tell ya who won't be in there and that's FG, FF, Labour, Greens, come hell or high water the Irish people are going to wipe the fcukin floor with the gob$hites who tried to treat us like a nation of gob$hites

biko

Please stick to IW issues and preferably local issues. thx

WallyGUFC

renegademaster wrote: »

even though all the evidence before us suggest otherwise, but sure we won't let somethign like that get in the way. i'm not saying who's going to be in givernment, i wouldn't try to call that one, but i will tell ya who won't be in there and that's FG, FF, Labour, Greens, come hell or high water the Irish people are going to wipe the fcukin floor with the gob$hites who tried to treat us like a nation of gob$hites

Bookmarked.

renegademaster

peaceful family friendly protest at city hall on college road today from 3.15pm to greet the councillors as they arrive, cllr Mike Cubbard has 3 important motions put on the agenda today

1) We as a council call on the Government to dissolve Irish Water
2) We invite the Minister to attend a special meeting on housing
3) Our Government establish an agency to solely address the unfortunate rise in suicide throughout communities

ratracer

renegademaster wrote: »

peaceful family friendly protest at city hall on college road today from 3.15pm to greet the councillors as they arrive, cllr Mike Cubbard has 3 important motions put on the agenda today

1) We as a council call on the Government to dissolve Irish Water
2) We invite the Minister to attend a special meeting on housing
3) Our Government establish an agency to solely address the unfortunate rise in suicide throughout communities[.

Will he abstain from the vote if it gets to that stage, like with the LPT reduction vote of last month?

dloob

ratracer wrote: »

renegademaster wrote: »

peaceful family friendly protest at city hall on college road today from 3.15pm to greet the councillors as they arrive, cllr Mike Cubbard has 3 important motions put on the agenda today

1) We as a council call on the Government to dissolve Irish Water
2) We invite the Minister to attend a special meeting on housing
3) Our Government establish an agency to solely address the unfortunate rise in suicide throughout communities[.

Will he abstain from the vote if it gets to that stage, like with the LPT reduction vote of last month?

I thought Mairead Farrell was claiming credit for it anyway.