Guy nearly has his life destroyed being the victim of a woman's false rape claim

Lemming

I have a problem with this "they were found not guilty" meaning "they just weren't proven innocent" line of thinking.

Either our entire court system (flawed as it is) presumes guilt over innocence until proven innocent no matter the crime, be it a theft of a packet of cigarettes, batter, rape, or murder. Or it presumes innocence until proven guilty. If we start to go down a line of thinking "oh, not guilty if it's regards a sex crime means guilty" then we as a society are in even deeper sh*t than we realise. If not guilty means guilty, and guilty means guilty, then all that is needed is the mere accusation regardless of merit, proof, or magical hallucinogenic sky fairies.

Worse still, it also makes matters even harder for genuine victims to be taken seriously.

Sex crimes are a deeply emotive issue that evoke strong feelings, but if we start down this path, then the seriousness of such acts becomes meaningless. The crime becomes an abstract, moot discussion point because no proof is ever needed and every bullsh*t artist in the world can just say "rape" for whatever banal reason and point at a guy and let the mob take care of the rest. Because, like, y'know, who needs courts anyway?!

volchitsa

Lemming wrote: »

I have a problem with this "they were found not guilty" meaning "they just weren't proven innocent" line of thinking.

Either our entire court system (flawed as it is) presumes guilt over innocence until proven innocent no matter the crime, be it a theft of a packet of cigarettes, batter, rape, or murder. Or it presumes innocence until proven guilty. If we start to go down a line of thinking "oh, not guilty if it's regards a sex crime means guilty" then we as a society are in even deeper sh*t than we realise.

Complete nonsense. They manage perfectly well with a "not proven" verdict in Scotland. Their justice system actually compares pretty well with ours, in my view when you see the violent thugs that come back before the judge over and over again.

(Off topic a little : And they don't go for any of this sh1t about putting money in the poor box instead of getting a sentence either.)

Galwayguy35

It takes a real lowlife to make a false accusation against a person, an innocent man could get his head kicked in based on those lies.

Would people then say "well there aren't that many cases really, only one or two" if someone lost their life due to a beating.

I'm ofton on the road early and see girls thumbing me for a lift after being out the night before, no way would I carry them in case a false accusation was made against me.

Lemming

volchitsa wrote: »

Complete nonsense. They manage perfectly well with a "not proven" verdict in Scotland. Their justice system actually compares pretty well with ours, in my view when you see the violent thugs that come back before the judge over and over again.

"Not proven" is a specific ruling if I recall, as opposed to "not guilty". Which still has baggage attached. At the fundamental base of the court system is that it is up to the court to prove guilt, not for the defendant to prove innocence.

As for the revolving door system of Irish justice, that's more an issue of overcrowded jails, and to a lesser extent an out-of-touch judiciary.

ancapailldorcha

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

I'm ofton on the road early and see girls thumbing me for a lift after being out the night before, no way would I carry them in case a false accusation was made against me.

Sadly pragmatic of you. I've a very similar attitude towards children as well.

volchitsa

Lemming wrote: »

"Not proven" is a specific ruling if I recall, as opposed to "not guilty".

So? The fact is that not being found guilty doesn't mean you are innocent, and the fact that r system doesn't allow for that fact is a failing, in my view. You seem to think it is a good thing that no such nuances are possible, but there is a price to pay for that black and white reasoning. A loss of credibility for our court system is part of the price, in my view.

Lemming

volchitsa wrote: »

So? The fact is that not being found guilty doesn't mean you are innocent, and the fact that r system doesn't allow for that fact is a failing, in my view. You seem to think it is a good thing that no such nuances are possible, but there is a price to pay for that black and white reasoning. A loss of credibility for our court system is part of the price, in my view.

I think that you and I shall have to agree to disagree.

Potatoeman

volchitsa wrote: »

So? The fact is that not being found guilty doesn't mean you are innocent, and the fact that r system doesn't allow for that fact is a failing, in my view. You seem to think it is a good thing that no such nuances are possible, but there is a price to pay for that black and white reasoning. A loss of credibility for our court system is part of the price, in my view.

You don't believe in burden of proof?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_burden_of_proof

Are you judging someone on the crime they are accused of instead of any evidence?

Starokan

Faking sexual assault is an appalling thing to do , it affects both the person being accused in the most awful of ways and it makes little of the horrendous ordeal that those who have been genuinely sexually assaulted go through.

Burden of proof always must be established but unfortunately there will be mistakes made that will favour incorrectly the accuser or the accused.

It is however the system we have and we have to work with it. What I would like to see is a system that imposes far more severe penalties than currently exist in the case of both someone who assaults and someone who lies about it. The mental trauma for the injured party in both cases is gigantic.

The only deterrent to crime is time, the majority of people who commit crime could not give a flying f..k about serving a few months, It merely increases the fear factor in their community when they come out, impose far lengthier durations and people will think twice before making false accusations

ALiasEX

volchitsa wrote: »

At 13? In a court full of adults questioning her every word?
I think that says all I need to know about you.

At 10 you can lie to the gardai and social services, what can you do at 13? http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/rape-charges-dropped-after-complainant-admits-lying-601372.html

tritium

fits wrote: »

How are you sure the allegations are false?

A question like that (and I'm not being critical of you here) is why anonymity for rape accused is important ( and hence that indo article is trash). In most crimes there's relatively clear daylight between guilt and innocence. However with rape there's so much he said/ she said in many cases that even after an acquittal it would be difficult to restore the damage to reputation that's been caused.

The comments here on the two brothers who had their conviction quashed is a good example. The evidence essentially as I understand rested on one witness who claimed to have been intimidated. There was no DNA evidence provided. Given that the key piece if evidence didn't stand up an appeal court had no choice but to quash. Those men are now innocent in eyes of the law but plenty of folks here are still doing the 'quashed doesn't mean didn't do it' stuff

eviltwin

ALiasEX wrote: »

You could be for all I know. For your sake, I hope you are.

Well I can assure you I'm not and one of the reasons I never took it further was the inevitable comments of liar. The person responsible was a family friend and the one person I did tell didn't believe me because he was a nice guy who wouldn't do something like that. If the people who know you have doubts what chance do you have of convincing a jury of strangers. Its bad enough to be a victim of an assault and have that person get away with it without people thinking your a liar as well. I don't think people really appreciate how much guts it takes for a rape victim to come forward especially if the rapist is someone you know well or have had a relationship with or if there are factors that might go against you ie you were drunk or you were with him voluntarily.

I'm not trying to minimise false allegations, I only have to look at my own family and the impact of that if it were to happen to my son or my husband. It would be something we'd never come back from. It would ripple across our entire family, our whole life would be affected by it forever. I don't want men to be scared of sex and dating the way some women are because of the media's obsession with reporting these stories in a sensational way. The fact is most men are not rapists and most women are genuine and would never falsely accuse anyone of a sex crime. The bad eggs are a minority, lets not forget that and lets not tar everyone with the same brush.

jdsk2006

h2005 wrote: »

I know of 2 men who have been falsely accused. Absolutely nothing has happened to the accusers. One of the men has left the country as he felt the stigma of the allegation was still following him.

I also know 3 men accussed of rape by (the same unstable woman), 1 turned to alcohol, another hung himself and the third lad is slowly rebuilding his life/reputation. Absolutly disgraceful that this woman is not held accountable. I was fairly close to the situation at the time and i can tell you now those 3 lads were in bits. She did admit to lying when confronted by family but shortly after her story changed again.

py2006

Just because men aren't running around telling people/friends/colleagues that they were falsely accused of rape is not an indication that it never happens or that it may have happened once or twice. Crazy argument by the usual posters popping into tGC to redirect the thread to the opposing gender.

When it is written about, it is mostly reported in the Daily Rags and the shocking thing is that the mens face and name is plastered all over the place and 'your one' maintains her anonymity. And rarely punished justly.

I read an article on why this happens (not sure if it was linked here). The most common reasons were:

1. Regretting a one night stand
2. Not wanting to tell husband/boyfriend truth of an affair/one nighter so resorting to rape accusation.
3. Revenge on an Ex.
4. Jealousy of another woman.

Deranged stuff altogether and most are deluded or clueless as to the consequence for the men involved and the obvious damage it does for other woman reporting genuine cases.

Does it happen every day? No. Does it happen as often as actual rapes? Probably not.

tritium

py2006 wrote: »

Just because men aren't running around telling people/friends/colleagues that they were falsely accused of rape is not an indication that it never happens or that it may have happened once or twice. Crazy argument by the usual posters popping into tGC to redirect the thread to the opposing gender.

When it is written about, it is mostly reported in the Daily Rags and the shocking thing is that the mens face and name is plastered all over the place and 'your one' maintains her anonymity. And rarely punished justly.

I read an article on why this happens (not sure if it was linked here). The most common reasons were:

1. Regretting a one night stand
2. Not wanting to tell husband/boyfriend truth of an affair/one nighter so resorting to rape accusation.
3. Revenge on an Ex.
4. Jealousy of another woman.

Deranged stuff altogether and most are deluded or clueless as to the consequence for the men involved and the obvious damage it does for other woman reporting genuine cases.

Does it happen every day? No. Does it happen as often as actual rapes? Probably not.

The truth is we don't know how often it happens, but the evidence would indicate its more likely than might be thought. The research runs from an implausibly small 0.2% to an improbably high 90+% (not surprisingly the extremes can usually be linked with extreme views on both sides . The most accepted (though not uncritically) figure is around 8%

Unfortunately like most sexual crime statistics there are many differing views on what constitutes a false report (much like many research definition s of rape itself) so its unlikely to be clear any time soon.

And of course this doesn't refer to that very grey area where we get into the rape/ consent debate, for example two drunk people having sex.

lazybones32

DoYouEvenLift wrote: »

... at any moment in time it's possible for women to abuse the law and potentially ruin our reputation if not our lives altogether and some of them actually choose to try and use this with utter disregard for the police resources it wastes.

The Washington Sun ran an article a few years ago citing a Baltimore Police Report showing how nearly 40% of rape allegations made by women against men were false reports. The most common reason for alleging rape was revenge...

http://www.cotwa.info/2010/06/a-massive-number-of-rape-claims-in.html (Can't find my original link but this has a more in-depth explanation)

Penny Tration

It's not just women who do it.

I know two men who made false accusations.

One, I dated. He told me his ex girlfriend forced herself on him in his sleep. He told his girlfriend after me that I raped him (funny, cause I refused to sleep with him for the last six months), and hetold me that she raped him ttoo.

I also have a gay friend who, every time we have a night out, claims he's been raped in the bathroom. I recently cut contact with him over it.

It's people like that, that made me not try to have my rapist prosecuted. I was called a liar by my own sister.

green_screen

green_screen wrote: »

It's not just women who do it.

I know two men who made false accusations.

One, I dated. He told me his ex girlfriend forced herself on him in his sleep. He told his girlfriend after me that I raped him (funny, cause I refused to sleep with him for the last six months), and hetold me that she raped him ttoo.

I also have a gay friend who, every time we have a night out, claims he's been raped in the bathroom. I recently cut contact with him over it.

It's people like that, that made me not try to have my rapist prosecuted. I was called a liar by my own sister.

Christ, I'm sorry green_screen.

Hope you're doing well now.

Penny Tration

Candie wrote: »

Christ, I'm sorry green_screen.

Hope you're doing well now.

I'm great now. Long since dealt with through years of therapy.

iptba

Drunk Woman Says Cop Sexually Assaulted Her, Cop Shuts Her Down With Video Evidence
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/10/20/drunk-woman-says-cop-sexually-assaulted-her-cop-shuts-her-down-with-video-evidence/

UPDATE: Albuquerque Police Department spokesman Tanner Tixier told TheBlaze on Monday evening that police were not pursuing additional charges against Griego because, despite the apparent falsehood of her sexual assault claim, police did not want to set a precedent that could discourage other potential victims of sexual assault from coming forward.

I find this very unsatisfactory. What about helping potential victims of false sexual assault allegations?
Even when they have video evidence, they won't take the case forward. That suggests they would be even less likely to take other cases forward.

AndreaCollins

shocking stuff ibtba. she got away with trying to ruin a mans life. even after being caught, she walked away scott free. deplorable stuff but sadly its not surprising